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Former Microsoft Managers Now In Charge of Washington State's Budget
reifman writes "The Seattle Times reports, 'For the first time in state history, the Washington state budget is being written by Microsofties,' Representative Ross Hunter has 'tamed his Microsoft-style head-butting with a politician's trust-building.' Senator Andy Hill is 'the first Senate budget chair ever to request Excel files instead of paper spreadsheets.' 'The two must find $1 billion in new money for the state's K-12 system.' Unfortunately, The Times neglects to mention that Hunter and Microsoft are among those behind the deficit and cutbacks in the first place. Hunter helped pass the amnesty bill for Microsoft's $1.5 billion Nevada tax dodge ($4.37 billion if you include impacts from its lobbying to reduce tax rates) that contributed to $4 billion in cuts to K-12 and higher education since 2008. The state has resorted to using Yelp to tax dancing to try to make up the shortfall (for real)."
Just hope they aren't using excel to do the budget.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23448-how-to-stop-excel-errors-driving-austerity-economics.html
Also, frist poot.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I fully expect the budget of Washington State to BSOD.
Hopefully they do better with their Mortgage-backed Securities....
Select from tblFriends where interesting >= 4;
When the M$ mole infested Nokia, Nokia tanked
Sales tanked, share price tanked, everything tanked
Will Washington state be next ?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Well, that's a false dichotomy. You assume the two are mutually exclusive.
The budget will be proprietary, only render correctly in Internet Explorer, and include Microsft Bob to help explain the loss of state revenue.
But isn't there something just a little wrong with the idea that there are morally no limits to what the State can extract from a for-profit corporation?
I realize Microsoft is a powerful corp, etc, etc, and that they can handle losing more more money to the State. That's not the point. I'm concerned about the relationship between the shareholders of Microsoft and the State. Who serves whom?
And you guys are somehow making this into a bad thing. It's laughable that apparently they've been using paper before.
The sad thing is that this troll isn't really any different than the other idiots that support Ron Paul.
Open up that checkbook, Bill.
b - hiring some politico's flunky as soon as they leave office to teach you how to reach the politico or to give you special access to former coworkers
c - hiring some politico when they leave office
Then, they figure out that instead of hiring at the end of the cycle, why not embed somebody in directly at the beginning of the cycle? Have current or recently current employees run for office, and also looking out for the best interests of their employer / former employer.
- decrease tax liability.
Next, they figure out how to do all of this at a lower cost. Easy ways to lower cost:
- - decrease taxes
- - increase credits for employment, etc
- increase profits
- - require your software to be purchased
- - make your software a de facto requirement for even transacting business with the government
- - make tax rules in your favor
Why pay for the hamsters to run on the wheel when you can own the hamsters yourself? [can you tell that ihashhasst? : i have a seventies hippy history and social-sciences teacher]
You have that exactly backwards.
You are welcome on my lawn.
In other words, the rich get to write the laws (or fund the writing of laws, wink, wink) that allow them to avoid taxes whilst the poor (or relatively poor-er) get told to pay higher taxes. Sounds like the republican platform has taken over all of washington state to me.
Well, if Microsoft doesn't like the taxes it has to pay there, it can easily go elsewhere. I don't see the big difference to a land owner demanding rent from anyone using the land.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
I think you've properly characterized the present relationship between those in control of the State and everyone else.
Those that receive tax dollars are land owners while everyone else is a share-cropper.
Limited liability corporations are an artificial creation of the state. The shareholders have been granted a massive privilege: the opportunity to make money with no liability for wrongdoing, however egregious. There is absolutely no problem with the state taxing the recipients of that massive privilege. If they don't like it, they can put aside the liability protections and work as, for example, a partnership.
Well Microsoft provides a product and employs many people and can be used by the State as a source of free money so I guess they're worse.
So it looks like you're trying to do a budget....
... that when funding runs out in April, because of an Excel error, the kindergartener's whiteboards will all go BSOD?
If that's the case, then the Democratic Party Incorporated is a national mega-corp that rents most of the country out to workers that pay taxes to support those their shareholders (registered Democrats) that don't work.
And soon they'll have uncontested control in perpetuity once illegal immigrants (foreign mercenaries) are given amnesty and allowed to vote (fight).
I would suggest it's roman_mir, but it's too well written and coherent.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
But people aren't taxed based on that privilege. They're taxed simply for wanting to work. The LLC privilege is extended by the state in the hopes that some people will be more willing to contribute to enterprises that will later be taxed instead of being too fearful of being personally the object of a lawsuit. Two different issues.
Why should Washington State get 1.5% of royalties from Microsoft? What costs do royalties impose on the state? What is the state providing in return that contributes to those royalties?
Why not some other state? Tons of people around the world have contributed to Microsoft's products and royalties; why shouldn't the places they live get a cut? And if it's as arbitrary as it is, what's wrong if Microsoft arbitrarily moves its location to Nevada or anywhere else?
Remember that that money is going to be used either as a business expense, or it is going to be taxed as capital gains or salaries anyway.
I don't think you understand what limited liability means.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
They did: they opened an office in Nevada and are selling the software from there. How is (not) paying taxes in Nevada any more arbitrary than paying taxes in Washington? The majority of Microsoft's employees aren't located in Washington State.
Most of the people slamming MS have obviously never run a business. Not once in that article do they mention anything to do with payroll taxes which aren't cheap.
And everything seems to be implying they don't pay property tax, taxes on office supplies, fleet vehicles, utilities, etc. all.
Most people either choose to ignore all these taxes in their day to day life or bury their heads in the sand, but when you run a business you see ALL of these and it's not very pretty and you WILL look for any way to cut those expenses.
If I were Microsoft I'd just head to Texas where the majority; so far; don't seem to feel so entitled to everyone eless money. And they do just fine with no income tax on top of that.
When you morons are done giving all the money power to the government and they turn on you, I'll be in my bunker laughing my ass off eating canned pork and beans. Should be entertaining.
PS. You are not entitled to any of my pork and beans.
"Senator Andy Hill is 'the first Senate budget chair ever to request Excel files instead of paper spreadsheets.'"
Please tell me this is a joke. Sure, bash Microsoft and Excel all you want.... But how the hell did they plan the budget before this?
Right.. because Microsoft is never dragged in when there is a negative story about Apple or Google. I'm sure that whenever that happens, its "interesting" and "insightful' or "informative" to do so. An advertising company would never hire shills. Nope. All those lovely advertising execs... hearts of gold ya know ! all pure gold !
And what do these corporations extract from the state? I'm sure they benefit from some services, but an examination of government budgets shows that the bulk of money now spent by governments amounts to forced charity or transfers of money.
The typical things we think of like police, courts, etc, make up a very small portion of money spent by the State.
The two must find $1 billion in new money for the state's K-12 system.' Unfortunately [for them, they] ... are among those behind the deficit and cutbacks in the first place.
I think the technical term for that is "Hoist with one's own petard."
Schadenfreude. When will they ever learn.
The sad thing is that this troll isn't really any different than the other idiots that support Ron Paul.
You have it backwards: the state makes sure that the Ron Pauls of the world are made to support idiots.
We are now letting companies directly write laws instead of simply bribing elected officials.
Of course the Washington state senators know that the Microsoft guys will only be looking to protect their own interests. But Microsoft officially owns Washington state, they can simply threaten to move billions of dollars of taxpayers out of state if they do not bend over and do whatever Microsoft says.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
Now they will offshore all government jobs and infrastructure to India. Pay twice as much and get half the productivity. How is that any different than the status quo?
Shut up, Paul.
Nokia!
I fully expect that the State Legslitature will soon be packed with ex MS staffers. Then they will bring in a bill to officially change the name from Washington (the only state named after a president) to MicrosoftLand and replacing WA with MS
Think of all that lovely free advertising on all vehicles. Fantastic
(tongue in cheek here)
Surely they wouldn't, would they?
M$ did cause Nokia to tank. That was done via Elop. The topic of Elop comes up often at Tomi Ahonen's blog. He is the most accurate mobile forcaster around and has on multiple occasions enumerated the damage being caused by Microsoft's Elop at Nokia. Nokia was at the top of it's game when Elop killed it. The Linux phone that he stopped was getting better reviews than the iPhone. But at this point there's nothing viable left and he's even brought in more people from M$ than just himself to ensure that the damage is permanent. Most of the talent has been fired or left on their own. If you want to look for progress, you'll have to turn away from Nokia and towards Jolla. That's just a sample of what the state of Washington can expect with microsofter in charge.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
That is just ordinary corporate compromising of the state. No comparison to the cynical world health camapigns for state money by a certain foundation.
Ah, spoken like a wage slave who is angry with himself that he isn't opening his own business and wants to drag down everybody to his level. If you actually ran your own business, you'd think differently.
Since his former employer was massively corrupt, you can bank cash that he is still being paid by mickeysoft, and Washington State will continue to suffer as he gets 100,000 mickeysoft shares per year, every year that he 'helps' them not pay their fair share of taxes. A $4.37 Billion tax dodge should be worth at least 43.7 million in 'retirement fund for former employee turned politician fund'. Is it underhanded, immoral, unethical and illegal? You betcha! Fucking xl files? You bet he is still working for them. I wouldn't even be surprised if they gave the politician a special version of xl so that when it reads 'mickeysoft' and 'tax' it always puts "$4.37 billion" beside the box that says 'refund'. Fuck the kindergardeners. Fuck the school kids. Fuck the old people. Fuck the roads, and fuck everyone else! There are multi-billionaires who are desperate to not pay a penny in tax. Think of them! We must dismantle the infrastructure that led to the creation of the billionaires in the first place (competition is always a bad thing), and then squeeze the little people. Its the American way!
I had the pleasure of working with Windows 7 a week ago, on the rare occasion I had to set up a demonstration on a netbook. Hadn't seriously touched windows since.. I don't know. Probably NT. And it *still* is a toy-OS.
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
It's ludicrous to claim that because of Microsoft "tax breaks" the state of Washington faces cuts. Washington does not have a revenue problem; it has a spending problem. From 1999 to 2009 the state budget increased 80%. Inflation and population growth combined was 39%. I don't know anyone who can even point to an increase in services provided by the state today compared to 1999. If they had been prudent in their spending they could have accounted for inflation and population growth with half the increase they did.
How did this happen? Lots of special interests, of course, but the basic fuel was sales taxes, which people don't really notice. When people were buying new cars the money rolled in and the state spent it. When the recession hit people cut back spending and suddenly the gravy train of sales taxes slowed to a trickle.
Now the state wants to tax everything because it's "for the children." They're looking for scapegoats and Microsoft is a nice big one to blame. It already has one of the highest sales taxes and gas taxes in the nation. It's a liberal tax and spend state.
But hey. If you want to move where the welfare payments are pretty good, move to Washington, a place where "undocumented aliens" get in-state tuition and help. With policies like Washington it won't be long before this place looks like Detroit.
How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
Big tech companies are almost unheard of in the Midwest. Boeing already made the move, MS should be follow their footsteps.
New Economic Perspectives
America seems to be blue screening !
And what do these corporations extract from the state?
Their existence is entirely state derived. If limited liability isn't worth paying whatever price the state demands for it then the owners can always do without it.
What's a "Galt?"
Typical right wing response. Every time the rich evade lots of taxes everybody else has a "spending problem", as if that excuses the behavior.
Issues of spending may be legitimate, but are separate from the subject of tax cheats.
+1 informative. This state is suffering from out of control spending fueled by special interest projects. Grrr
just like the guy from Monsanto working for the FDA, and the guy from General Electric working as Obama's Job Tzar, it isnt anything new, the revolving door of crony/fascism has been going on between the private sector and govt for a long long time
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
are you denying the tax breaks happened or not? I'm confused. giving tax breaks is as good as spending in the situation too though, so the special interest group of MS would count.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Tax evasion is illegal.
Tax avoidance is legal.
This article isn't about evading taxes, it's about avoiding taxes.
For tax evasion, the company or individual is responsible for not doing it. For tax avoidance, the legislature is responsible for having a reasonable tax code, but a company who doesn't take any available tax avoidance measures (so long as the cost of avoiding taxes is below the taxes avoided themselves) is irrational or ignorant.
What Could Possibly Go Wrong?
But isn't there something just a little wrong with the idea that there are morally no limits to what the State can extract from a for-profit corporation?
I'm thinking it's the other way around. Microsoft and most if not all corporations try to hide as much taxable income as they can. Microsoft is famous for this. So where does this 'extraction' by the State happen?
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
I don't think you understand what limited liability means.
Actually, I think he does. When you incorporate as an LLC and something catastrophic happens, the LLC is nailed and likely killed while the owners remain relatively untouched.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
We legalized weed in Washington State. Now we need more money? Start selling it.
Granted I have a great dealer and I'd probably never buy any weed from you, but I'm pretty sure there is a ton of people who would. Get selling bitches!
Be seeing you...
Übermensch like me and Bill Gates. The people who are smart enough and work hard so that liberals and leftists can smoke marijuana and fuck like rabbits all day stopping only long enough to cash their welfare checks.
Yes, only the assets and time they've invested in the LLC are subject to loss. That's why it's limited - you risk what you're putting into it, and everything it's made as well. Your other personal assets are not subject to loss... But there's still a lot on the line.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Tax breaks are legal, are they not? Revenues to the State are up over 60% since 1999, quite a bit more than inflation plus population growth. Spending is way out of line. That's the problem. It's not a revenue problem, and it's not a number-of-consumers problem (demand - inflation plus population growth). It's a spending/Government pork ladle problem.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Oh great!!! I just wonder how many M$ features will be included with Budget V 1.0... some features to include are buffer overflow, missing library, wrong type declaration and easter egg communicators!!!
FragHARD or don't frag at all
Typical left wing response. It is a FACT that spending increased twice as fast as inflation and population growth. You cannot explain that away.
How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.