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Belgian Media Group Demanding Copyright Levy for Internet Access
An anonymous reader writes with this tidbit from PC World about Sabam's latest demand for copyright levies: "Sabam, the Belgian association of authors, composers and publishers, has sued the country's three biggest ISPs, saying that they should be paying copyright levies for offering access to copyright protected materials online. Sabam wants the court to rule that Internet access providers Belgacom, Telenet and Voo should pay 3.4 percent of their turnover in copyright fees, because they profit from offering high speed Internet connections that give users easy access to copyright protected materials, the collecting organization said in a news release Tuesday."
Sabam has previously demanded money from truckers for listening to the radio, and wanted to charge libraries royalties for reading to children.
From what I remember, in Canada making copies CDs is legal because of the copyright levy on blank CDs. If the media companies get there way with this copyright levy for internet access, will that make all online copyright infringement legal?
If they are going to charge across the board and assume we are all pirates, perhaps we should get a discount when we do legally purchase something to offset this cost? I'm sure the Belgian Media group has done the math and with so few legal purchases they'd be more than happy to reimburse me every time I do it the right way.
Well, you can't have it. End of story.
As a Belgian ISP I would demand 90% of all profit Sabam makes them, since they enable them to sell digital goods..
Greed, plain and pure.. all copyright groups should be shot.
I'd pay a 3.4% tax if granted immunity from copyright infringment suits.
They'll be demanding more soon enough. There's never enough blood for vampires.
Wasn't Dr Evil.... Belgian?
Muppets.
by that logic the council who built our roads are also responsible for enabling people to go and rob banks or any crime that involves travelling!. Get real.
If they are going to charge across the board and assume we are all pirates, perhaps we should get a discount when we do legally purchase something to offset this cost? I'm sure the Belgian Media group has done the math and with so few legal purchases they'd be more than happy to reimburse me every time I do it the right way.
Yes, the discount should be 100%. If they're going to assume we're pirates and build their kickback on the basis that we're getting their product for free, we should... get their product for free.
"Oh no... he found the
Have these extortionists shot in the streets.
Welcome fellow Belgians. We at Sabam, being sociopaths, wish to tax your internet usage, your radio, and yes, even your libraries. You should be pleased that a group of malicious psychopaths like us have latched on to this particular game, because otherwise we'd probably be stalking playgrounds and public washrooms for victims that we could molest, beat and possibly even cannibalize to fulfill our obscene lusts.
So fork over lots of cash to us, or we'll be forced to start fulfilling our other fantasies, and you will never feel safe in a public space again.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
No I we should get a royalty on every successful purchase someone makes from their services or the publishers they represent. Since that is obviously one copy we did not pirate ;p
While I'm sure they would LOVE for this to be their new business model as it allows them to profit without doing a fucking thing, I am equally sure the majority of Belgians would prefer a different business model for them - called "Out Of Business - Permanently".
Or, perhaps, the Belgians would agree to the "tax" on their internet connections in exchange for the ability to consume any and all content they can reach using said internet connection. Including downloading any material copyrighted by those said organization covers without ever needing to worry about getting sued for infringement. Basically, since Belgians are paying for copyright through a "tax", they are now allowed unfettered consumption.
And fuck Sabam if they want to have their cake and eat it to. Then all of the Belgians should reintroduce the "Out Of Business - Permanently" model to them. It is time for "the people" to take back control from the corporations. Maybe the Belgians can get the ball rolling?
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
What the ISP's should do is block all access to content that can be purchased. Cut the beggers legs off so to speak.
a few years back there was a troll program to defend the people's rights and they did a concert with fake artists in front of sabam hq. they were actually charged for the concert even though there was no such artist as "suzi wan" and "kimberly clark" or also "ken wood". they are actually made up brand names of toilet paper and blender equipment! it was quite amusing. there is a youtube video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZAsa9QmQO8
The premise of this is absurd. You can't stop people from viewing the material so blame the the providers of the connection... right... That's like blaming your ears for hearing nails on a chalkboard instead of remedying the sound in the first place. So basically if search engines sucked and material was hard to find there would be no issue? Libraries sort their books so that material (both copyrighted and not) is easy to find, I suppose they should be forced to pay too? High speed Internet offers high speed to everything online, not just the illegal content.
How does that work in practice? Oh, you want a 10% discount? Well our price just went up 11%.
I think you will run out of money before you run out of people to pay off. First it's a Belgian company demanding a tax. Next it will be a French company demanding a tax on Belgian ISPs, because hey, Belgians read French books too. And some Dutch trolls will want their cut for what the other half of Belgium reads. Then some Americans will want a piece of the action and all hell will break loose.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
> offering high speed Internet connections that give users easy access to copyright protected materials
Perhaps they should also tax the government 3.4% for providing roads, giving users easy access to copyright protected materials in stores... wait, did I just say "tax the government"?
TFA doesn't mention pirating. They're complaining that people now use iTunes, YouTube and Spotify, where the money goes directly to the artists or record labels, and not through the little media group that they set up.
Do we actually have to kill these maggots to stop all this non-sense? They want to eat us alive.
Give them what they want and then tell your entire customer base that they have paid a fee for access to that copyrighted material and stop throttling bit torrent. Let them reap what they sow. 3.4% fee for unfettered access to music, movies, books, and more? Sure!
Greedy fucks.
All the copyrighted materials that you download from Amazon or iTunes store or elsewhere, all those copyrighted materials that you download through streaming services like Pandora, or things like BBC iPlayer, are perfectly legal and paid for. Shouldn't they charge the post office when I order DVDs or CDs with copyright materials through mail?
When an NGO (non-governmental organisation that is actually a disguised State operation, funded and given legal powers by the state) is created, it always follows the same pattern. At first the NGO follows the original mandate of its creation. Being, in reality, a state body, the NGO very quickly reaches its first set of goals. By this time, the heads of the NGO are very powerful people with massive salaries, and their ambitions are only just beginning. Now the NGO needs to massive expand its areas of operation to maximise the growth of power and profit accruing to its managers (and the politicians directly paid off by the NGO in quasi-legal and/or illicit deals).
The more rules an NGO can implement, the more powerful and richer the NGO becomes. The 'media rights' groups in mostly non-Anglo-Saxon first world nations are some of the most powerful and corrupt NGOs on the planet. They directly enrich the pockets of leading politicians in those nations to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars every year. And, the more the politicians benefit, the greater the powers granted to these 'rights' bodies.
The goal of any 'rights' body is to tap every citizen of that nation. The power that comes with such legally forced forms of 'taxation' is unthinkable, and overwhelms any activism that arises from concerned citizens who oppose such forms of taxation. All voters can do is complain, after all, whereas the NGO will promise to enrich every major politician that grants it extra powers.
It gets worse. The massively corrupt NGO will spend a small part of its fortune on FUD, propaganda and PR campaigns. Whatever agenda it was originally created to push will be promoted in schools and in the mass media. Opponents will be depicted as cranks, criminals, and other forms of 'social criminals'.
Democracy becomes utterly worthless when technology allows systems to arise that give corrupt politicians powerful tools to manipulate the voters, while increasing their own financial and power base. In the USA, for instance, the sheeple EXPECT any politician that rises to the top to magically earn hundreds of millions of dollars in their 'private' 'business' 'arrangements'.
The ruthlessly filthy evil monsters that rule Belgium today still teach schoolchildren about the 'glories' of Belgium rule in Africa. The Belgium Holocaust in the Congo rivals the communist Holocausts in the USSR and China as the greatest Holocaust of the 20th Century. Belgium has a ruling class completely unrepentant of its Crimes against Humanity. Sabam is just an extension of this mindset.
Well, I know of a Sint Maarten outfit that offers that 100% discount.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
So unless they are going to take those additional fees and distribute them internationally to absolutely every human being alive who has ever put something copyrighted online, *EVER*... they really should stay away from the issue.
This post is copyrighted by me, for instance. And people can access this post by going on the Internet and reading comments on Slashdot under this article. Will *I* receive even the tiniest sliver of the funds they collect? No? Then they shouldn't be trying to touch that Pandora's box with a pole of any length.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Belgian copyright provides automatic protection for any creative work. Since there are strong indications that the only reason why people get internet is to read my 'Anonymous Coward' posts on slashdot, I'm entitled to at least a twenty percent cut in this racket...
There's no moral high ground for SABAM. I know Slashdot's readers don't much like ASCAP, but they're my licensing agency and part of my small income as a composer comes from those royalties. Problem is, SABAM has yet to pay (via ASCAP) a cent of the royalties owed me for performances in Belgium for the past eight years. (Same goes for SPA in Portugal, which has never forwarded any royalties due.) Until they actually turn over the royalties they collect in composers' names, they have no excuse to collect them in the first place.
Before you engage in the screw-you comments, please know that I provide all my sheet music for free download and only expect the performance royalties in return. The performers and venues pay those royalties, but Belgium and Portugal just pocket the money.
Sounds like a good deal to me. All the written material; music; films I can watch for £3 / $6 / €3.5 per month. Though how authors; musicians etc will be up to Sabam. Though I think Sabam owes me a few pounds as I wrote (and a number of people used) software in the '90's.
There are different countries that do have levies for copy-written works. Canada has/had levies on different writable material like blank music cds cassettes and that sort of thing, they also wanted it to apply to ipods but thankfully itunes proved that content could generally be purchased legally so they didn't. I think that's a good case to look at here. If all you could use your internet connection for was piracy or the majority of people were using it for piracy then maybe I would be OK with this. But the majority of people online at least in North America I believe aren't inherently pirating music, videos and games.
So how do you justify taxing people who don't infringe to those that do? That's like asking everyone to pay a fine because most people speed. Also how do you distribute the money from the levies? Does it go to the game industry, music, video, book, or art? What percentage? It was a problem with Canada's levies, money wasn't ever considered for software developers which I assume have a significant portion of their wares pirated.
I also don't like to be charged for a crime I didn't commit so there's that too.
How much media content can there be that deals with waffles?
The Belgians love waffles!!
they should be paying copyright levies for offering access to copyright protected materials online
Access doesn't imply use. Should record stores pay an additional percentage of their profits simply for providing "access" to people that don't end up buying anything? I haven't, and don't intend to, ever buy or unlawfully download digital content over the Internet (I just don't have that need) so why should some of the money I pay my ISP go to an industry I don't use, simply because they cling to an outdated business model?
Okay, for you youngsters, a "record store" is an actual place you can go to, walk around inside, actually *touch* and buy records - crazy, I know, but true. Okay, for you really young kids, a "record" is ... :-)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Every Belgium citizen paying a 3.4% tax year after year, or Belgium citizens pooling their money to hire a hitman to kill every last top-dog in this organization?
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
FUCK YOU. Assholes.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Inform the group that you have a huge amount of money waiting for them at the local sports-stadium, enough for every employee to have a share.
As they walk in, hand them a cigarette, a blind-fold and ask what they want on their tombstone.
Complete firing squad activities, the remainder of the country can breathe a sigh of relief as this leech on society has been removed permanently....
Wait, don't the record companies provide easy access to these materials themselves? Isn't the point of their business that people pay them for access? Hey, I know - if they never sold^H^H^H^H licensed copyrighted materials, people probably wouldn't have any access to them at all! That would be the best!
well, sure, using spotify is legal. they know that.
but they argue that because that cuts into their local copyright mafia branch profits, the isp's should pay.
I guess the labels didn't want to send them money for music played on spotify so they had to find someone to pay 'em(they get money from radio plays so it's flawless logic that SOMEONE must pay them for streaming music, too, and not just the labels ;D ).
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Fining these criminals is the wrong approach, since it only reinforces Sabam's desire for the practice to continue. Instead, they should treat the citizens of Belgium like true criminals, and have a mandatory jail sentence of 3 months or so, to be served at a convenient time between the ages of 18 and 25. Then Sabam can be satisfied that they're getting justice for all of the copyright infringement that Belgian citizens commit.
Just read http://www.amazon.com/Pirate-Cinema-Cory-Doctorow/dp/0765329093
There isn't really much more to say about it...
Executive summary: allowing this is a really bad idea because it sets a legal precedent.
morcego
Owning a car in Belgium means Belgians have the ability to speed on the roads, therefore the only sensible course is for all Belgians to pay a fine for the speeding they otherwise would have gotten away with. Children! They can grow up into criminals, so new parents should have to pay for possible future crimes by their children. Pets! Laundry! Toilet paper! Where will it end?
That's a steal!
I don't think that's the best example. The Gov't ended up stealing one of Tony's suits anyway.
Sabam has previously demanded money from truckers for listening to the radio, and wanted to charge libraries royalties for reading to children.
And I want a pony, and a brand new Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport, and a solid rhodium toilet.
Time to offend someone
We want money because music industry and movie industry content moves over your interwebs just like trucks moving CDs and DVDs on roads also pay us.
Oh, and we're not paying a cent in royalties to anyone else who also has their content moved over the same routes.
FTA:
>>the Belgian association of authors, composers and publishers,....
Ok, so we block all references to anything named by those authors, composers and publishers, so no trace of them exist on the internet (in Belgium anyway) so no one can pirate their stuff.
No?
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Is "both" an allowed response?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
This type of thinking is so idiotic. So should high speed internet access be illegal since some users can use it to pirate easier? Why should the ISPs share in the blame for what their users are doing? All they are doing is giving them access. What's next? It's illegal to talk in groups of more than three people because you COULD be planning a terrorist attack?
This is a shitty attempt at a google bomb.
Hell, First-posters are more meaningful.
And the idea behind government is to protect us from these kinds of things and make the playing field fair. In a legal sense. This is the very definition of a lawful and good society vs a tyranny or oppressive one.
In several European countries, people already have to pay a significant fee on printers, computers, and cell phones, money that then is funneled to select publishers and other copyright trolls.
So unless they are going to take those additional fees and distribute them internationally to absolutely every human being alive who has ever put something copyrighted online, *EVER*... they really should stay away from the issue.
This post is copyrighted by me, for instance. And people can access this post by going on the Internet and reading comments on Slashdot under this article. Will *I* receive even the tiniest sliver of the funds they collect? No? Then they shouldn't be trying to touch that Pandora's box with a pole of any length.
I bet you agreed anything you post to Slashdot is no longer yours. It's pretty common so I would think they now own the copyright.
Those freeloader children getting stories read to them from the library without paying royalties? The monsters! Every time my parents read me a story we put a nickle in a jar, how could ignore the poor Belgian company?
You may want to reread the terms of use on Slashdot again. It explicitly says that submitters retain ownership of anything that they submit.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I would not mind paying small extra copyright fee as long as it grants me right to download latest tv shows, movies, etc.. But somehow i think there up to money for nothing again. Too bad content industry cant modernize there business models to better serve modern consumers. I think it joke that i have to wait 6 months or more before tv shows become available here in scandinavia.
Yep did try netflix, even thats lagging behind badly.
It seems like the music licensing companies in many countries are equally evil. This latest move by the Belgians is just business as usual, disgusting as it may be.
But, why do they then choose acronyms that are so easy to make fun of?
ASCAP: Ass-Cap (put a cap in yo ass)
SABAM: Sa-*BAM* (like punching someone in a Batman comic book)
I'm sure there are fun mis-pronunciations for the equivalent associations in other countries as well. Anyone from other countries want to contribute more?
I think a simple solution to this asshattery should be a policy, or a law, among all Belgian ISP's and Wireless providers to refuse to take on SABAM, their members, and their families as customers. If they cannot get internet service, besides begin really fucking funny, it should send a clear message to the rest of the world.
Also, given this level of mental retardation, what are the laws in Belgium surrounding having someone committed to mental illness facility. Surely they qualify?
Thoughts?
Progress is man's ability to complicate simplicity!
Yes, we should be demanding a large share of their profits for:
-- Allowing them to live on OUR planet;
-- Breathe OUR air;
-- Drinking OUR water and then contaminating it by pissing it out;
-- Tolerating their greed, foolishness, short-sightedness, and stupidity; and
-- Poorly mimicking the behavior of politicians.
These people truly are a waste of skin.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
FOAD. Seriously. Get a productive job.
shame if anything were to happen to it..
As a competitive American, I'm very upset that these Belgians seem to have out-assholed our biggest copyright clowns. Damn, they beat us. For now.
Although I'm not too worried... our bench is very deep, I'm sure we've got some even more insane idiots waiting in the wings.
This whole desparate, pathetic money grab is just so degrading. Have they no shame?
As an American living in Belgium, I can provide some context. Here in Belgium, while it is illegal to distribute copyrighted material without consent of the author, it is ALREADY legal for people to ~download pirated content. IANAL, but my impression is that the laws just happened to be worded that way since before the internet boom. It is a similar to the situation in may states where some drugs are legal to possess and use, but not to sell. Because of this, and also because movies often take over a year to get subtitled and released legally here, piracy is rampant. EVERYONE here feels a bit guilty about pirating, but does it anyway.
I have no clue if this organization has any moral authority to seek royalties on behalf of artists, but I can assure you that the legal balance between the rights of artists and the rights of consumers is way out of wack here in Belgium. Part of this may have to do with the fact that Belgium recently set a record for years without a federal government.
Actually this is a good idea because it might pave the way towards acknowledging digital copyrightable content as a Public Good. Public Goods are both non-rival (my consumption doesn't prevent your consumption) and non-exclusive (you can't stop me from consuming). For digital media the first is certainly true and the second is practically true, or at least as true with roads. Standard market practices break down when it comes to Public Goods which is why they are left to governments to provide or fund as only government can ensure that people pay for said goods via a taxation mechanism. Imagine if all the bullshit with DRM and SOPA and lawsuits simply went away to be replaced by a universal media tax. Creators would be paid a portion of the total collected pot based on the popularity of their content and all persons in the covered jurisdiction would get unlimited access to content when and where they wanted.
You watch your mouth! We don't speak like that in polite company!
of reality, probably because it's lead by some remnants of the babyboom who fail to accept the fact that even in belgium it's 1913 by now ... myeah, no one cares about sabam really and sabam doesn't really care about keeping it real either. This place is doomed unless it gets with the program but i cant say that because that would be me being negative and you cant be negative. Positivity is more important than truth or facts
... i have made about five posts on five forums today and the state of the world is depressing me already
i read about the trucker thing and something like listening to music with open window, is that ethical since a passerby might hear a few notes without paying for it
in a country of five governments ruling 11 million people and wondering where the money has to come from to sustain it this is not really abnormal.
the norm is after all mediocrity, inefficiency, face down to the ground and do whatever you can when no one sees it
it's a cultural thing bred from 2000 years of occupation since the romans got here and after them about everyone in europe, those who survived learned to trick the system while smiling as if they liked taking one up the ass. No one tell me it's not a cultural thing because it is just that, the consequence of the past. Even if the flandres nationalist would have this proud past and shit. That's a REAL cultural thing of the region. Not all evolution is genetic. This just the fenotype of the belgium sapiens
and Sabam
nuff said
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?