Redditors (and Popehat) Versus a Bus Company

Techdirt explains the strange story of a lawsuit-happy bus company in Illinois which managed to tick off a cadre of determined redditors by calling them uncomplimentary names in the reddit forums. This all started when a bus passenger, Jeremy Leval, reported unsavory behavior by a company employee (telling an exchange student "If you don't understand English, you don't belong at the University of Illinois or any 'American' University.") and said so online. Besides the name calling on reddit, the bus company threatened the forum moderator with libel charges, and over insults posted by the bus company employees which the moderator had deleted. Further, company owner "[Dennis] Toeppen threatened to sue Leval, saying, 'The attorneys for Suburban Express are reviewing this incident with a view towards filing the appropriate legal action against this meddlesome MBA student.'" Attorney Ken White of Popehat got involved, though, and asked with good effect whether the company had fully considered the Streisand Effect. The strangest part? Toeppen's former involvement as a domain squatter.

Comments

Sure...

[Frosty Piss]

Letâ(TM)s hope the Redittors are more accurate with this "issue" than they were with the Boston Bombers. People seem so willing to take whatever is posted on some web site by people that (right or wrong) have some vested thing in some opinion or view. Sometimes a critical mass builds in the Forums when the actual facts end up being completely different from reality. I wasn't there, Iâ(TM)m not jumping on the Band Wagon until the whole thing shakes out.

Re:Sure...

[Frosty Piss]

So, did anything that matters happen today?

Kentucky Derby. GOD am I wasted...

Re:Sure...

[larry bagina]

Surely you're not suggesting that it matters what colour skin they have?

It does when redditors are tracking down bomb suspects.

What Sort Of Outfit Are They Running There?

[rmdingler]

That an intellectual forum of internet posters could degrade to ad hominem attacks instead of reasoned debate.... Is this the /. farm system where we draft our new players from?

Stuff that matters?

[hsmith]

Reddit drama on Slashdot? Is that how hard up for "news" this site has gotten?

Re:Stuff that matters?

[fermion]

except he does.

I've never argued against any technology being used when you have an imminent threat, an active crime going on," Paul said. "If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and fifty dollars in cash. I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him."

Re:Stuff that matters?

[Seumas]

You hold the public in too high esteem. The majority of Americans would say "he musta been guilty or they wouldn'ta droned 'em".

People don't want due process anymore. They don't believe in innocence until guilt is proven. They have absolutely no sense of the civil liberty they are rightfully owed other than when it comes to wanting weed to be legalized because "textiles, dude".

Re:Having solved all of the world's other problems

[ojno]

Why doesn't Reddit ever use their hivemind to affect change for any of the real, substantial problems we have in this world?

I can't help noticing that you don't seem to be helping the world right this second. Why are you posting on Slashdot when you could be affecting change for some of the real, substantial problems we have in this world?

Contract of Adhesion with sneaky terms

[girlinatrainingbra]

So there's an awfully beneficial to the bus company only contract of adhesion which applies when you purchase a bus ticket from these (IMHO) idiots at Suburban Express. The students seem to be unaware of it when they purchase the tickets, and the "contract" allows suburban express to charge them loads of extra money, or "fines" (ohmigod, they call them fines!) for wierd little things. Then, the company takes the students to court for these fines, and probaby schedules the court dates such that the student could not possibly attend the court action, thereby having the student lose by default.
.
There's a very interesting write-up at the Daily Illini about this company and their practices by someone who initially did not believe how bad and wierd (and imho probably illegal) the actions of this bus company were and are: Suburban Express Causes its Own Problems is the title of the April 25th article by Matt Pasquini, an "Opinions" columnist.

Re:Contract of Adhesion with sneaky terms

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's the same company that was in a Chicago Tribune article recently, their terms of service make some cell phone services look outright peachy in comparison. Almost like loan sharks on wheels. The company could have two busses going to the same place at the same time, but if you hop on the wrong one the company will go after you for theft. Also no refund for that ticket that's only good for a specific time on that specific bus. So if they screw up you're screwed anyways. I'd also guess the upkeep and maintenance on the vehicles is nothing to talk about either, old rattletrap vehicles with questionable maintenance and comparable to a roach motel on wheels.

Pretty much it's a shady and exploitative company. You'd be better off asking for rides on a campus bulletin board, Craigslist, or hiking with a backpack near a major highway and thumbing it.

Re:Contract of Adhesion with sneaky terms

[jo_ham]

They file the lawsuits in a neighbouring county so that the students are ineligible for legal aid support from the university and thus can't afford to defend themselves - the "fines" are cheaper than the cost of defending yourself.

Public relations checklist

[meta-monkey]

Suburban Express' marketing department should probably update the public relations checklist:

MEMO
TO: All employees, and particularly boss-type in-charge people
SUBJ: Keeping your feet away from your mouths

Before posting on an online forum, sending an email, or communicating with the press, reread your message. Do any of your statements:

• 1) Maybe sounds kinda racisty? (i.e., supports employees who address foreign customers in a derogatory manner) Y/N
• 2) Makes you sound like a cartoon villain (i.e., includes phrases like "this meddlesome MBA student" or "and I would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for you meddlesome _blanks_ and your _blank_!")? Y/N
• 3) Your response is likely to draw more negative attention to the company than the original complaint did? Y/N

If you circled "Y" on any of these items, please turn off your computer and do not send the message.

Thank you!

~R.P. Choadington, V.P., P.R, H.R., VHS, QVC. esquire

Slimy Company

[gauauu]

So I went to school at Illinois, and still live in C/U. We've all known for years just how bad Suburban Express is, but unfortunately there's enough people that don't know, and enough new people each year, that keep them in business. While it's weird that this made Slashdot, it's nice to see them get the publicity that they deserve.

I know the guy...

[seebs]

I've done some consulting work for him in the past.

Honestly... He's sort of a jerk sometimes, and he makes some really poor decisions sometimes. But he's honest, and he's not a total moron. He isn't suing people to create some kind of crazy profit center, he's trying to deal with people using forged or incorrect tickets to get on buses. People like to point to his (admittedly a little wacky) terms and conditions and imply that he's suing over stupid shit. He's not, so far as I know. He's suing over people who do stuff like print three copies of the same ticket and get on three different buses that are running the same schedule. This isn't about "socially acceptable behavior", for the most part. (Some of the later stuff, like the defamation claims, was pretty dumb IMO, though.)

And everyone jumps in with some "oh, hey, I know how you could easily solve this!" solution. It's like the thing where, if you spend ten years working with doctors to try to treat insomnia, anyone who hears about this will suggest you cut down on caffeine after dinner. Because, obviously, neither you nor the doctors have ever thought of that!

Yes, there really are reasons that checking passengers against a manifest is at the very least a substantially higher cost than the (fairly small, compared to the user base) amount of fraud. Yes, there are reasons it probably wouldn't be a good tactic at all. It's not that he's too much of an idiot to think of this, it's that he has more information about what is actually happening than those of us who are reading couple-paragraph summaries over the Internet.