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Why US Mileage Ratings Are So Inaccurate

Why does a car rated for 47mpg fall so far short? The Houston Chronicle features an article on just why EPA gas estimates can be so different from real-world drivers' experience at the pump (or in looking at the dashboard display), in particular for hybrid cars. From the article: "A geometric average of the FTP-75 and HFET results (with city driving weighted at 55 percent and highway driving weighted at 45 percent) produces a vehicle's CAFE fuel economy, which is then incorporated into a manufacturer's corporate average. CAFE is measured using these tests to the present day. In fact, this methodology will be 50 years old when it's used to gauge compliance with the forthcoming 54.5-mpg CAFE requirements in 2025. That kind of continuity is admirable in baseball, but not in transportation. These tests are irrelevant to contemporary real-world driving. For example, the maximum acceleration on either test is 3.3 mph per second. At that rate, it takes more than 18 seconds to hit 60 mph. Even in the horsepower-deprived 1970s, most people were driving harder than that. And the 60-mph maximum speed on the highway test does not accord with the 75-mph truth of today's interstate traffic."

52 of 374 comments (clear)

  1. Simple explanation by johnw · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well obviously - it's because your gallons are smaller than proper gallons.

    1. Re:Simple explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      American highway speed limits vary depending on the state and location. It's usually 65 but inside a large city it is often 55. In the Texas desert it can be 85.

    2. Re:Simple explanation by houghi · · Score: 4, Informative

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States
      The highest speed limits are generally 75 mph (121 km/h) in western states and 70 mph (113 km/h) in eastern states. A few states, mainly in the Northeast Megalopolis, have 65 mph (105 km/h) limits, and Hawaii only has 60 mph (97 km/h) maximum limits. A small portion of the Texas and Utah road networks have higher limits.

      So if you live in a 60MPH state, it is accurate. If you live in a 75MPH then it isn't.

      So they should have different information for different states. And obviously for city driving as well.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Simple explanation by kwark · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The European tests are also flawed, they might be more realistic but the "mileage" is still not applicable to real world situations. The tests are highly optimized, there is almost no way to get these results as an ordinary driver.

      There as a consumer program on TV a couple of weeks ago, people were complaining they were only getting 16km/l instead of the advertised 25 km/l for a certain car. This was after driving instructions/coaching from the importer. The conclusion was something like:
      Every car is tested in the same way, highly optimized. You will not get these results in real life, but you can use the results to compare cars, a 25 km/l car will be more efficient than a 20 km/l car of the same fuel type for the same driver.

      BTW I am able to almost reach the manufactures mileage in my car, but it means I have to drive really slow, stay of the throttle (0-100 km/h in 20s), look ahead/anticipate to avoid breaking/acceleration, drive under the max speed limit, don't drive in the city, don't drive during rush hours, make sure the car is empty (not carrying unnecessary weight). But realistically this will almost never happens.

    4. Re:Simple explanation by Kjella · · Score: 2

      So they should have different information for different states. And obviously for city driving as well.

      And it still wouldn't really match all real world conditions. I think most cars engines now have very accurate electronic control on the amount of fuel spent at any time, so just make a standard set of "unit figures" for cruising, acceleration etc. given a certain speed, resistance (passengers, luggage, uphill, downhill etc.) and see if you get accurate figures for a full drive profile. That way you can change what is considered a "representative" drive without the need for retesting, or even people could check custom profiles more suited to their actual needs.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Simple explanation by the_cosmocat · · Score: 2

      One of the big problem of these false numbers given by the manufacturers for fuel consumption is that these numbers are directly linked to CO2 emissions. And lots of governments give ecological aids when a car emit few CO2. So, with low (false) numbers manufacturers obtain ecological aids for expensive cars that emit in fact a lot of CO2! A these aids are paid with everybody taxes. So the poor pays taxes for rich people buying big polluting cars where aids should encourage to buy smaller ecological cars!

    6. Re:Simple explanation by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      The summary is quite misleading, conflating the CAFE standards test and the window sticker EPA mileage. The window sticker standards have changed many times, most recently in 2008. They will change again as reality changes.

      The European tests are a joke in comparison. The exact same car will have fantastic mileage in Europe for some mysterious reason :) Carmakers over-inflate tires, put tape over body panel seams, and remove rear-view mirrors. There is less of that kind of thing in the US because the government spot-checks the manufacturers' numbers. Hyundai/Kia were the most recent culprits.

      As for the speed limit issue - I believe the "highway" test originally tried to simulate rush hour traffic in Los Angeles... this obviously will not apply to everyone equally. If you take your family truckster down I-95 for a roadtrip and average 75 MPH, you will suffer significantly more aerodynamic loss than a test that averages 45 MPH.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    7. Re:Simple explanation by Technician · · Score: 2

      Ratings are based on Gasoline, not gasoline diluted 10% or more with Ethanol.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  2. Game by DKlineburg · · Score: 2, Informative

    Its all just a game so they can boost there average and still sell the trucks that have terrible MPG that people want.

    --
    Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events. - Albert Einstein
  3. consistency more important by mondovoja · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whether those numbers represent a real world mix of driving accurately really doesn't matter all that much, since fuel economy for other driving styles strongly correlates with fuel economy for the conditions that are actually measured. Long term consistency, on the other hand, matters a great deal for car buyers and for evaluating progress on reducing emissions and consumption.

    1. Re:consistency more important by swalve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, exactly. The CAFE ratings aren't meant to tell you what your personal MPG is going to be, they are meant to tell you how cars of a specific model year compare to each other. If you do 10% better in one car, you'll probably also do 10% better in the other one.

    2. Re:consistency more important by realityimpaired · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, exactly. The CAFE ratings aren't meant to tell you what your personal MPG is going to be, they are meant to tell you how cars of a specific model year compare to each other. If you do 10% better in one car, you'll probably also do 10% better in the other one.

      That may be so, but miles per gallon is a misleading measurement on which to base the "10% better" calculation. 30MPG to 33MPG is *not* 10% better efficiency. In fact, the two are so close that it's within the margin of error for most of us, and can easily be outweighed by simply getting a bad dice roll with the traffic lights.

      If they switched to a burn rate measurement, like L/100km (that the rest of the world uses), or even Gal./100mi, then you actually could do the math in your head for how much more or less efficient the vehicle is. MPG isn't a linear scale, but L/100km is. As a result, the higher the MPG, the less actual benefit you get: 50MPG to 75MPG isn't even close to a 50% improvement in fuel efficiency (it's actually only about 25%), and the disparity between reality and perception only gets worse as you get higher.

    3. Re:consistency more important by Ironhandx · · Score: 2

      Thats not even slightly true. The Highway speed limit here is 65mph but normal highway speed is actually 75-80mph. At 80 mph in a 2010 Honda Civic I get WORSE gas mileage than in a 2003 Mustang thats had mods done to it that reduces its gas mileage. Its entirely due to the fact that the last gear on the automatic trans in the civic is designed for optimal gas mileage for the EPA rating @ 60MPH and there is no shorter gear. My old 2000 Chev Cavalier wasn't as bad because there seemed to be some sort of extra half overdrive gear at around 75-78.

      My Auto 2011 F-150 and the 2009 Silverado I had before it both had the same problems. They were most efficient sitting right at 60mph... which isn't even the speed limit. 5 over wasn't so bad, but once you hit 10+ over....

      With expressways and everything else becoming so prevalent, the 25 minute trip that my wife used to take to get to work is now 15-18 minutes but 10 minutes of that is now at 75+ so she's getting there faster and over a shorter distance but where there should be some gas savings there are none at all.

    4. Re:consistency more important by Trepidity · · Score: 2, Informative

      If they switched to a burn rate measurement, like L/100km (that the rest of the world uses)

      The rest of the world? Here in Denmark we use km/L, a distance-per-fuel-unit measurement like the U.S. does. Afaik that's fairly common internationally.

    5. Re:consistency more important by Sique · · Score: 2

      Actually, the headwind drag is a function of speed. It's proportional to the square of velocity. Thus there is no single point where the headwind drag suddenly increases. If you drive 40 mph, your headwind drag is four times the headwind drag of driving at 20 mph, but only a fourth of the headwind drag while driving at 80 mph.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    6. Re:consistency more important by GrumpySteen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If they switched to a burn rate measurement, like L/100km (that the rest of the world uses), or even Gal./100mi, then you actually could do the math in your head for how much more or less efficient the vehicle is

      Let's take a closer look at your point:

      2L/100km is obviously twice as efficient as 4L/100km since 4 is twice as large as 2. Easy enough to do in your head.

      50km/L is obviously twice as efficient as 25km/L since 50 is twice as large as 25. Just as easy since it's the exact same math.

      The problem with your idea is that you read that a 10 mpg increase in fuel efficiency doesn't represent the same percentage of increase when it's applied to different starting mpg figures (i.e. from 30mpg it's a 33% increase, but it's a 50% increase if you start with 20mpg). And that's true, but you're assuming it affects all calculations using mpg figures. The L/km measure behaves in exactly the same non-linear fashion. A 1L/100km increase in efficiency from from 3L/100km is a 33% increase but it's a 50% increase from 2L/100km. Once again, the math is exactly the same.

      tl;dr L/km isn't particularly better than mpg. You just suck at doing math that you haven't practiced, so you think it's harder.

    7. Re:consistency more important by nabsltd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that over a certain speed, fuel economy goes way down.

      The smaller the engine, the more you will see this effect. This is because it has to work much harder (relatively) to move the car faster.

      For a larger engine on the same car, you generally get worse gas mileage at lower speeds because the idle fuel usage is higher. But, as you go faster, the larger engine doesn't work much harder, so mileage doesn't drop as much. After a certain speed, a larger engine will be more efficient on the same car.

      This is why turbochargers are now all the rage. You get the advantage of the lower idle consumption of the smaller engine, while still having the acceleration you need for emergencies and the better mileage at higher speeds.

    8. Re:consistency more important by lordofthechia · · Score: 2

      Thus there is no single point where the headwind drag suddenly increases.

      Depending on the aerodynamics of the vehicle there's a point somewhere between Mach 0.85 and Mach 1 where this is true.

      --
      Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
    9. Re:consistency more important by kbolino · · Score: 2

      25 mpg = 4 gal/100 mi
      50 mpg = 2 gal/100 mi
      75 mpg = 1.33 gal/100 mi

      Look at gal/100 mi as a function of mpg. The difference between 50 and 25 is 25 and the difference between 2 and 4 is -2, so the slope of the tangent line is -2/25 = -0.08. The difference between 75 and 50 is 25 and the difference between 1.33 and 2 is -0.66, so the slope of the tangent line is -0.66/25 = -0.026. So the "linear" function has different slopes between different points, which is impossible, hence it is not linear at all. In fact, the curve is hyperbolic, which you might recognize from the fact that you are reciprocating one quantity to obtain the other.

  4. Not only the milage ratings are false by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The biggest reason that real-world fuel economy is so different is that the testing is done with a specific "standard" fuel that does not contain any ethanol or other "oxygenator for cleaner burning fuel". The stochiometric ratio required for proper catalitic converter operation on modern cars is maintained by the oxygen sensor adjusting the amount of fuel injected into the engine - too much oxygen in the exhaust gas, add fuel to decrease; too little oxygen, decrease the amount of fuel. This is a closed-loop system that does not take into account fuels that have additional "oxygenators" added - it only cares about the oxygen in the exhaust gas. Add oxygen from fuel additives, reduce oxygen in the exhaust gas by adding more fuel, reduce mileage. "Clean burning fuels" with additional oxygenators is one of the biggest government-mandated ripoffs ever devised. The "testing" done to prove the "value" of oxygenated fuels is done with a single-cylinder carbureted engine in a test lab, with no emission control systems. In the "bench" testing, a specific amount of fuel is burned with the oxygen in the air, and the resulting exhaust gases analyzed for hydrocarbon emissions. Add an "oxygenated" fuel, burn the same specific amount metered at the same air-fuel ratio, and TADA, look, it burns cleaner! Of course it does - there is now additional oxygen in the exhaust gas! But in the real world, the emission systems on a modern car sees the extra oxygen and adds more fuel to the engine to "correct" the air-fuel ratio and reduce the oxygen level in the output gas. They don't tell that part to congress or the consumer, so the use of "oxygenated" fuel is mandated by the law at both federal and state levels - and so 4.) Profit!

    And the milage you get on the road does not match the testing...

    note: I designed and manufactured fuel control computers for a while, so I know a littile about how things work.

  5. Drive conservatively! by mendax · · Score: 2

    When I accelerate slowly (yes, I'm the guy in front of you you regularly curse), drive a pickup with a stick shift and a 2.3 liter four-banger, keep my highway speed to about 60 mph (that's about 90 kph for you metric folks), and use my magic powers to keep the headwinds and crosswinds to a reasonable level my little pickup will get what the EPA said it gets: 29 miles per gallon. I think a lot of it really has to do with how a person drives. Now, in practice I drive a lot faster than that but it's nice to know that the EPA actually got it right.

    --
    It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
    1. Re:Drive conservatively! by PRMan · · Score: 2

      I agree. On my car with a built-in MPG screen, if I drive well, I get about 26.5 to 27 MPG on a car that's rated 23/31. Driving through town poorly, my wife gets about 23. Driving straight through to Vegas (from SoCal), I've gotten 32. And this was on the old "inaccurate" EPA scale. Seems pretty accurate to me.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    2. Re:Drive conservatively! by FlatEric521 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree. On my car with a built-in MPG screen, if I drive well, I get about 26.5 to 27 MPG on a car that's rated 23/31. Driving through town poorly, my wife gets about 23. Driving straight through to Vegas (from SoCal), I've gotten 32. And this was on the old "inaccurate" EPA scale. Seems pretty accurate to me.

      I would recommend you consider double checking your car's trip computer calculation against the tripometer and gas pump readout method of manually calculating miles per gallon. I bought a Hyundai with a trip computer that includes Avg. MPG as one of its readouts. Prior to owning that car I had gotten into the habit of resetting the tripometer on my car at every fuel up after writing down the miles from the tripometer and gallons from the pump readout (then just divide the miles travelled vs gallons to refuel the tank). I kept up that habit after getting the Hyundai and found that the manual calculation method consistently reports 2-4 MPG lower than the trip computer. If your trip computer is anything as optimistic as mine, then you may actually be getting less than you think.

    3. Re:Drive conservatively! by howardd21 · · Score: 2

      You may be showing some sarcasm, but in case you are not, generally accepted conventions are that you pass to the left and then return to the right lane, or at least not stay in the left lane and camp out. Yes your tax dollars helped pay for the road along with the rest of us, so we all need to follow some guidelines for safe use. It is unsafe for you to drive slower than expected in any situation, as cars will run up on you, get frustrated and try to cut you off going around you. They are also unsafe, but your habits provoked that. We just had some people killed here recently on a highway for that situation.

      --
      no comment
    4. Re:Drive conservatively! by danbert8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Incorrect. The correct driving lane is the rightmost lane you can occupy. If you are going 100mph you should still be in the right lane if you aren't passing. Idiots like you cruising along in the middle lane are why I end up passing you on the right. If you are in the correct lane you will NEVER be passed on the right.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    5. Re:Drive conservatively! by chihowa · · Score: 2

      It won't change anything, really. The only traffic laws that will ever be regularly enforced are speeding and running red lights. Anything else, even if it's horribly disruptive and regularly leads to accidents will be completely ignored or even regularly practiced by police as well (like following too closely, changing lanes without signaling, etc).

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    6. Re:Drive conservatively! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      In California, the right lane is for merging and exiting, and driving.

      The second lane is for driving and swearing at the right lane to let you in.

      The third lane is for billboard conniseurs to see both sides of the road.

      The fourth is for fumbling with the radio.

      The fifth is for police chaces where the guy is trying to blend in.

      The sixth is for passing, which doesn't work so well because you travel slightly slower than the other lanes.

      The seventh, the leftmost lane, is the HOV lane -- Humans Or Ventrilloquist dummies.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  6. Re:Choice of average by swalve · · Score: 4, Informative

    When you are calculating the average of ratios (miles per gallon) and the denominator is the thing that changes, you have to use the geometric mean. If they used liters per 100km, then they would use the regular average.

  7. Your mileage may vary... by dtjohnson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No one cares what the testing procedure is as long as everyone does the same test and it's repeatable. The purpose of the test is to provide a method for consumers to compare different models with respect to their fuel economy, not to provide a precise prediction of exactly what the buyer's fuel economy will be. Everyone drives differently. People warm their car up in the driveway, fill it up with heavy weight, carry lots of passengers, do a lot of long-distance driving, tow trailers, drive up and down hills, ride their brakes, accelerate briskly to beat their neighbor, drive at high altitudes, drive in cold weather, or whatever. Even more significantly, the energy content of 'gasoline' varies widely depending on how much ethanol it has (more is less) and what its boiling point range is. Just do the same test and do it in a way that someone else could repeat the test the same way and get the same result. That's all we need rather it's a 50 year old test or not.

    1. Re:Your mileage may vary... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that manufacturers tune their cars to do well in these tests at the expense of efficiency in more realistic conditions. Nobody accelerates at 3mph/s but cars are optimized for that because that's the test that is administered. If they made the test more realistic everyone would benefit.

      --
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      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Your mileage may vary... by c · · Score: 2

      No one cares what the testing procedure is as long as everyone does the same test and it's repeatable.

      Wrong.

      It's like standardized CPU or GPU benchmarks; manufacturers cannot be trusted not to cheat on the tests and blow off "real world" scenarios just to make the numbers look good for marketing.

      If a car spends 80% of its lifetime on the Interstate at 70MPH, you'll probably care if it's getting 45MPG or 35MPG, irrespective of the 47MPG it claims to get at 60MPH in testing.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
  8. Re:Units wrong by xaxa · · Score: 5, Informative

    For example, the maximum acceleration on either test is 3.3 mph per second.

    It's hard to take a paper seriously when it gets the units of measure wrong.

    What's the problem? That *is* an acceleration.

    (The SI measure is ms^-2, metres per second squared, or metres per second per second. 3.3 (miles/hour)/second = 0.44704 m s^-2.)

  9. OK by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

    Could someone explain this with a car analogy?

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  10. Re:75mph??? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    German cars now violate physics? Was that a dealer option?

    the air resistance is nearly doubled at 75 from 60. Pushing air around actually takes up about 40% of a car's energy at highway speeds. Traveling faster makes the job even harder...The increase is actually exponential, meaning wind resistance rises much more steeply between 70 and 80 mph than it does between 50 and 60.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  11. In any case... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was under the impression that the standard unit for fuel consumption in the US is furlongs per hogshead.

    1. Re:In any case... by JustOK · · Score: 4, Funny

      It was updated, now it's LoC / firearm

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
  12. Fusion Hybrid Owner by OneOver137 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm own the much maligned 2013 Fusion Hybrid, and my current tank is averaging about 44 mpg. My work route currently averages between 43 and 50 mpg.

    My driving conditions are a mix of heavy suburban traffic and stretch of 25-55 mph interstate, with speeds averaging 15-20 mph during rush our. The terrain is rolling hills, with a delta of about 200 feet.

    On a warm (T >70 degree), dry day with no wind and little traffic, the car will easily get the 47 mpg.

    Temperature has a large impact on the mpg. The same example above in 25 degree weather will net about 36-38 mpg, consistent with the reporting done over the winter. Obviously, cold starts and running the defroster has a big effect, and the electric traction motor eats away at the battery much quicker at lower temps.

    Rain will cut the mpg on my work route to about 43 mpg, and the extra drag is very noticeable. A headwind has the same effect. Tailwinds are fun though, and it kinda feels like sailing when the ICE is off.

    Cruising at 55-60 mph on the highway, in no traffic on a warm, dry, and windless day, I can get the 47 mpg.

    A quick temperature and mpg plot (assuming dry, windless conditions) looks like:

    (T deg F, mpg): (25, 36), (30, 38), (40, 40), (50, 43), (60, 45+), (70, 47+), (80, 45).

    There is some roll-off at the higher temps because you have the A/C running.

    Driver style has a huge impact on observed mileage, and this cannot be stated enough. My wife is your typical, jackrabbit starting, bumper riding, race-to-red driver. Her mpg is far worse than mine. I doubt she's ever seen 40 mpg. A trip that I can do at 45 mpg, she'll get 36 mpg. I've tried to coach her on the basics of hybrid driving, but she just doesn't get it. I imagine a lot of people are the same way. You either "get" how to drive a hybrid, or you don't.

    1. Re:Fusion Hybrid Owner by mstrjon32 · · Score: 2

      There is nothing to "get" regarding a hybrid versus any other car. If I drive my turbo roadster with my foot hard down all the time, I might get 18 mpg or worse on a trip. If I drive it gently, accelerate slowly (keeping it off the turbo), brake early, keep to the speed limit or a reasonable speed--I can quite easily exceed 35 mpg for the entire trip. Purely on the highway it's possible to exceed 40 mpg. The same variations are true for hybrid cars, with the only real difference being that really aggressive braking will throw away some of the energy that might have been recovered by regenerative braking.

    2. Re:Fusion Hybrid Owner by dkf · · Score: 2

      You either "get" how to drive a hybrid, or you don't.

      You not only have to "get" it, you also have to be willing to drive like that. Which knocks out another significant chunk of the population.

      I'd say that "get"ting it includes having the willingness to act in a sane way. The silly thing is, provided you're willing to actually spend some thought trying to predict what other drivers are doing and observe what the environment is like, driving in a fuel-efficient way costs virtually no time. Maximizing your efficiency means braking as little as possible (bearing in mind that being in a collision is a critical loss of efficiency!) and accelerating gently. You also have to leave a bit larger gap between yourself and the vehicle in front so that you've got time to act if they do something odd.

      The plus side of this is that it reduces the impact of braking waves in heavy traffic (you know, where some idiot at the front sees a cute squirrel or something and hits the brakes a little, causing the idiots behind to brake more heavily and sending a wave of stopped traffic backwards through the queue; they're a feature of heavy traffic, especially when most drivers are acting unintelligently).

      Drive Smart! It's good for your blood pressure and your wallet!

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
  13. Re:The Testing Process is Flawed by Ironhandx · · Score: 4, Informative

    Consumer reports tends to be a bit sensational. They do get put on a treadmill but the EPA numbers are also based on a circuit of real road driving. 3 tests are done and the average of those tests are then used as the EPA rating.

    Additionally theres no such thing as a frictionless treadmill, and the treadmill they use is actually able to adjust its load to simulate real world resistances.

    There are plenty of real reasons to bash the EPA ratings, there was no need for consumer reports to exaggerate and make shit up.

  14. Manufacturers cheat on "Take Home" EPA test. by guidryp · · Score: 2

    First the current 5 cycle EPA test isn't limited to 60mph, it goes up to 80 MPH:
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml

    That isn't the real problem. The real problem is that 85% of "EPA Testing" is actually done by the manufacturer themselves. In effect this is a Take home test.
    http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-truth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates
    "While the public mistakenly presumes that this federal agency is hard at work conducting complicated tests on every new model of truck, van, car, and SUV, in reality, just 18 of the EPA’s 17,000 employees work in the automobile-testing department in Ann Arbor, Michigan, examining 200 to 250 vehicles a year, or roughly 15 percent of new models. As to that other 85 percent, the EPA takes automakers at their word—without any testing—accepting submitted results as accurate. "

    Since EPA MPG plays a big part in overall advertising campaigns, and potential EPA penalties, there is strong temptation for manufacturers to cheat.

    Two years ago Hyundai had an ad campaign featuring how all models of many of it's cars got 40MPG highway without needed special models. Hyundai scored big increase in sales. But later testing a Consumer Reports showed a few of Hyundais models got less than 40 MPG in CR testing. This is ODD because CR testing is more straight forward and the vast majority of cars beat their EPA Highway rating when CR tests them on it's own test. So the CR testing is something of a Sanity check for catching cheaters. Eventually Hyundai was found to have a systemic "mistake" in their testing (AKA cheating). They had to roll back mileage claims across the board and give payouts to customers.

    The discrepancy between CR and EPA for Hyundai models before they were caught cheating was 1-3 MPG.

    Fords new Hybrids are now falling short by 6-9 MPG and Ford has a new (successful) Ad campaign targeting Toyota, claiming better fuel economy. These new Ford hybrids are the first to make significant sales inroads against Toyota. If anything MPG advertising has even more effect on Hybrid sales.

    It isn't hard to see how Fords interests are benefited by high test scores, on a test they administer to themselves, even more than they were for Hyundai before they were caught cheating. It certainly smells like something rotten in Dearborn Mi.

  15. Why mileage ratings are inaccurate by emaname · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I worked for just over 2 years in a wind tunnel for a company that manufactured cooling equipment (eg, radiators, oil coolers, A/C condensers and evaporators). We tested products for a variety of manufacturers which meant a wide variety of equipment; ie, compressors, farm tractors, semi tractors, passenger cars, and on one occasion a small city bus to be used in Miami, Florida.

    We had a reputation for maintaining a very stable, controlled environment (air flow, heat load, dynamometer load, and positioning of thermocouples for sampling temperatures) and consequently consistent test results.

    Now in the interest of full disclosure, this was in the early 70's. But at that time, that's also where the manufacturer's typically got their mileage estimates.

    I think this might also be the era from where we get the expression "Your Mileage May Vary" (aka YMMV). I think they included this disclaimer in car ads in an attempt to comply with the "truth in advertising" laws (remember those?).

    Clearly nobody can drive a vehicle in a manner as controlled as that.

    So if the manufacturers are still getting their mileage results from a wind tunnel test, forget it. You'll never match those results especially if you live in a large metropolitan area (where it's not uncommon to sit idling in traffic) or you live in a mountainous area or where you have really cold weather.

    There are several really good comments here with additional insight as to why mileage can vary drastically from the manufacturer's estimate; type of fuel mix, for one.

    So remember, when you're buying a car and read those mileage estimates, YMMV.

    --
    An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
  16. Re:Muscle cars by krovisser · · Score: 2

    Those unmitigated muscle cars were rated for power on engine dynos with race pipes, no alternator, no drivetrain, etc. There will little standards to horsepower ratings in the 70s. Now, it is still engine power (as opposed to actual power at the wheels), but they are required to be measured with all accessories and emissions equipment.

    Plus, brake specific fuel consumption has skyrocketed since then. A 1970s 5.7L engine gets a whopping 200-250 hp, where today's get 400-500.

    When I worked at a dyno shop, we were accused of all sorts of mischief when a customers 1960s or 1970s "muscle" car came in and made all of 190 hp. "Your dyno is broken!" Well, the 80s may have produced anemic american cars but the Japanese and Euro cars actually managed, in the late 80s to produce quick vehicles. They also had been using EFI for decades. The Americans produced ridiculously ineffecient, carb'd (until the late effing 90s) pieces of shit until, well, they went bankrupt. Of course then, nobody nuked American manufacturing plants requiring them to build new infrastructure.

  17. Re:Speeds by beelsebob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Where I live the posted limits are 75 mph. Very few people here drive that slow unless the radar detector is going off or there is a cop actually in view.

    The reason I know this is because I *do* drive the posted limit, and I am *constantly* being passed.

    Arguing semantics But actually, that isn't valid reasoning. Even if you're constantly being passed, that's not a proof that the number of people passing you is greater than the number of people matching your speed exactly.

  18. Politics, Plain and Simple by CodeBuster · · Score: 2

    Why aren't "official" MPG ratings accurate you ask? Because almost everyone, except stupid consumers, benefits from this system. The politicians can point to rising average fuel economy, real or exaggerated, that burnishes their green credentials. The environmentalists and their pressure groups don't have to admit that fuel economy isn't going up as much as advertised or even worse "declined" from previous inaccurate measurements. The auto companies are also happy with this fiction because it allows them to continue business as usual which is more profitable for them. In short almost nobody cares about accurate "official" MPG numbers because accurate don't serve the interests of anyone with skin in the game. Consumers who care about the real MPG can find this information with a few Google searches or a visit to one of the consumer review sites where they can pay for detailed reports with the real numbers (often worthwhile when researching a major durable goods purchase). What do you expect out of government? Accurate numbers? The truth? Don't be naive.

  19. Re:The Testing Process is Flawed by cffrost · · Score: 2

    Additionally theres no such thing as a frictionless treadmill, and the treadmill they use is actually able to adjust its load to simulate real world resistances.

    Perhaps nefus was referring to dynamometers, which would provide over-optimistic measurements of fuel efficiency and/or vehicle performance, since they don't account for the effects of aerodynamics on those figures. (I'm not claiming that any organization presents figures obtained this way, merely that that's what nefus may be referring to).

    --
    Thank you, Edward Snowden.

    "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
  20. Re:Efficiency by icebike · · Score: 3, Informative

    Speaking of power in the gas tank, it seems that all these tests are conducted with straight gas, but all you can find at the pump these days is 10% ethanol, which immediately cuts your mph by 3 to 4 mph.

    Very few new car advertising even mentions the difference.

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    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  21. Re: Efficiency by icebike · · Score: 4, Informative

    Entire article is false, EPA changed the testing in 2008. Since 2008 they test mpg up to 80mph and accelerate at 8.5 miles per second, roughly 0-60 in 7 second

    So I'm guessing you never bothered to read the article. (I know, what was I thinking).

    The new standard is FULLY addressed in the article. Go read it.

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    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  22. Re:"Horsepower Deprived 1970's" by toddestan · · Score: 2

    A lot went on in the US automotive world in the 1970's. You started off the with the tail-end of the muscle car era, and by the end of the decade after various government regulations and the fuel crisis scare, you ended the decade with things like the Chevy Chevette, Chrysler K-Cars, and AMC importing the Renaults to the US.. I'd say the horsepower deprived era really started in the mid-late 70's, and went to the mid-80's or so until engine improvements and things like fuel injection and computer controlled timing made it possible to build engines with a decent amount of power and not run into problems with the EPA.

  23. Re: Efficiency by fluffy99 · · Score: 2

    Entire article is false, EPA changed the testing in 2008. Since 2008 they test mpg up to 80mph and accelerate at 8.5 miles per second, roughly 0-60 in 7 second

    So I'm guessing you never bothered to read the article. (I know, what was I thinking).

    In particular the part where EPA may not actually be doing those additional tests amd simply relying on the manufacturer to estimate those numbers in good faith (aka, fudging it). Similar estimation was also how the EPA revised the numbers for older pre-2008 vehicles that were never subjected to these test.

  24. Re:Choice of average by sapphire+wyvern · · Score: 2

    Because the test course is a fixed length and profile, and they're comparing the number of gallons consumed between vehicles to complete the standardised course.

    M/g with fixed M and varying g means that the denominator is changing.

    It would be difficult to test the cars on a fair yet realistic basis if you had to drive along some kind of (varying) course until you have consumed exactly one gallon and then measure the distance you have travelled.

    Volume / distance is a better metric anyway because it's easier to correctly compare the performance of two vehicles. Your fuel savings suffer from diminishing returns from increasing MPG. An improvement from 10 MPG to 20 MPG (halving your fuel consumption) is much, much, much bigger than an improvement from 40 MPG to 50 MPG (cutting your fuel consumption by only 20%). But an improvement of 1 GPM, or 1 L/100 km, is always going to yield the same amount of savings no matter what your baseline is.

    This is particularly relevant when you consider that for most use cases, the amount of travel a particular person needs to do is a fixed variable and the type of vehicle they drive (and hence fuel efficiency) is the independent variable. People choose a car based on their needs; they don't select their commuting route based on the kind of car they drive.

  25. Re:Efficiency by fuzznutz · · Score: 2

    It depends on your criteria for asshole.

    I have 15 traffic lights for my 4.4 miles of daily work commute. The traffic engineers have timed all the lights except one such that if you drive the speed limit, you will cruise through all the lights green. When I get behind some "asshole" that will not drive the speed limit, or worse, takes a half mile or more to get up to the speed limit, I can easily double my commute time idling at lights. And each and every light requires a new acceleration.

    Unfortunately for me, my town is populated with Civil War widows that can't seem to understand that they are legally permitted to drive at the speed limit or to comprehend the principle of sequenced traffic lights.