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Spoiler Alert: Smart Kids Become Successful Adults

itwbennett writes "Researchers from the University of Edinburgh set out to test the long-held assumption that kids who performed well in school at a young age carried that early success through to adulthood. And prove it they did! Specifically, 'Math and reading ability at age 7 may be linked with socioeconomic status several decades later.' Early success even correlates 'over and above associations with intelligence, education, and socioeconomic status in childhood.'"

25 of 256 comments (clear)

  1. Correlations by T.E.D. · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Also correlated:

    Math and reading ability at age 7 and socioeconomic status of the parents.

    Socioeconomic status and socioeconomic status of the parents.

    So has this study really shown anything other than the transitive property?

    1. Re:Correlations by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Open articles.
      Ctrl-F "Controling"
      No results.
      Close tab.

      Nothing of value.

      (They did start another study for control for genetic factors, but those aren't the most important)

    2. Re:Correlations by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Informative

      From TFA:

      The long-term associations held even after the researchers took other common factors into account.

      "These findings imply that basic childhood skills, independent of how smart you are, how long you stay in school, or the social class you started off in, will be important throughout your life," say Ritchie and Bates.

      So, assuming they did their research right, nope. The results have little or nothing to do with the socioeconomic status of the parents.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    3. Re:Correlations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well if you are expecting to find a word that you didn't even spell right you might as well just skip the first four steps and go straight to "nothing of value"...

    4. Re:Correlations by jon3k · · Score: 5, Funny

      The best part is his username. Really makes the whole thing that much more hilarious.

    5. Re:Correlations by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Although the third-party blurb suggests some interesting conjectures, the article itself is hidden behind a paywall. It's hardly worth speculating on its content or statistical robustness or experimental rigor - other than noting that the social sciences tend to be less robust in their methods and mathematics than the physical sciences and engineering.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    6. Re:Correlations by robbyjo · · Score: 5, Informative

      > Open articles. Ctrl-F "Controling" No results. Close tab. Nothing of value.

      It does. It is abbreviated as "RGSC" on the article. Look at Figure 2 to see the model graphically and you see that RGSC is featured prominently on the top. Also, if you look at Table 2, the authors acknowledge the link between SES of origin AND math / reading abilities. But this paper shows that the math & reading abilities at 7 years old do predict mid-life SES above AND beyond the SES of origin.

      --

      --
      Error 500: Internal sig error
    7. Re:Correlations by Ioldanach · · Score: 4, Informative

      Open articles. Ctrl-F "Controling" No results. Close tab.

      Nothing of value.

      (They did start another study for control for genetic factors, but those aren't the most important)

      Article says

      The long-term associations held even after the researchers took other common factors into account. "These findings imply that basic childhood skills, independent of how smart you are, how long you stay in school, or the social class you started off in, will be important throughout your life," say Ritchie and Bates.

      Which implies that they controlled for socioeconomic status. However, the actual paper appears to be behind a paywall. Therefore I don't know what's in it, beyond what this article tells me.

  2. On the other hand... by jones_supa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...does being smart lead to a more stressful life? Realizing how much you still don't understand, grasping the bad state of some things in world, feeling the general existential pain and philosophizing things, and so on.

    1. Re:On the other hand... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "If the purpose of our life is not suffering then our existence is the most ill-adapted to its purpose in the world."

    2. Re:On the other hand... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In my hometown the percentage of kids on meal assistance at their schools is so high ...

      Sorry, but "being on meal assistance" does not in any way whatsoever imply "does not get enough to eat."

      In fact the opposite is true: obesity rates are negatively correlated with income, and kids at the very bottom of the poverty scale are the fattest.

      America has a serious nutrition problem, but we certainly do not have a systematic hunger problem, and claiming or implying that we do is just diverting attention from the actual problem.

    3. Re:On the other hand... by TuringTest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The purpose of life is generating more life - it's the only way it has arrived here, by replicating itself. *Your* purpose may be not suffering, but that's uncorrelated with the adaptation of life to existence.

      --
      Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
    4. Re:On the other hand... by NicBenjamin · · Score: 3

      Here's your problem: You're not looking at the World, you're watching the News.

      Look at it this way:
      When I grew up (in the 80s) there were no Democracies in South America. The Caribbean was so economically backward nobody would have thought of opening a bank account there, much less using it to dodge US Taxes. Apartheid South Africa was in many ways the freest country in Africa because a) the white minority (at the time almost 20%) was fairly free, and b) the rest of the continent was dominated by Military governments and Communists. A few US allies in Asia were doing well, but much of the rest of the continent had trouble buying food for everyone. Japan was the only actual Democracy. The Iron Curtain meant dozens of European countries were de facto puppets of Brehznev in Moscow. Southern Europe was economically poor, and just getting over the Fascists-are-way-better-then-Communists phase of it's political development. Instead of being confident, independent states insisting on getting fair value for their taxes at EU summits, Finland and Germany spent all their time praying the Soviets would refrain from vaporizing them. Ireland was an economic backwater obsessed with a nationalist anti-British ideology. The British themselves refused to negotiate even on purely symbolic points because they didn't want to give in to IRA terrorism.

      Yeah if you move the ball forward to about 1995 you can get past most of the really bad stuff I've mentioned. But Africa/South America/etc. were a lot poorer. Per capita most of these countries were in the dollar a day category. Ireland and the UK were only half-way to fixing their problems. Egypt was run by an extremely-tyranical un-elected Secularist rather then today's somewhat-tyranical elected Islamist. The Taliban had consolidated their rule in Afghanistan.

    5. Re:On the other hand... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Interesting

      About a sixth of all residents [feedingamerica.org] don't get enough food.

      Umm, no.

      Article you link doesn't say that. It says a sixth of all residents are struggling with "hunger". If you've ever bothered to check, you'll know that "hunger" (aka "food insecurity") is defined as âoedo not always know where they will find their next meal.â

      Note that that definition means that missing a meal a year would put you on the "hunger" list.

      For that matter, you don't actually have to miss a meal, since "do not always know" doesn't actually imply missing a meal, just fear of same.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  3. Successful adults? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First define successful adult. Success means different things to different people. I know a lot of people with no more than an 8th grade education that are successfully supporting their families and are genuinely happy people.

  4. Performing well in school... by poor_boi · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've always felt that performing well in school is less a measure of intelligence and more a measure of one's ability to follow rules, complete assigned tasks, get along with teachers and classmates, and behave in socially acceptable ways. It even seems like highly intelligent people often perform worse-than-average in school because high intelligence often comes along with lower-than-average social skills (or a disinterest in adhering to social norms).

    1. Re:Performing well in school... by D1G1T · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The really smart ones recognize the high value of successful social interaction and consciously work at developing those skills as well.

    2. Re:Performing well in school... by PRMan · · Score: 3

      No. We don't. Idiot... ;-)

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  5. Need for good teachers by Murdoch5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And this is why we need good teachers in the school system when the kids are at a young age. This is how I would re-organize the Canadian school system in Ontario:

    1) Religion in schools need to be cut. Replace Religion with math and science, math and science promote logic, God promotes making up stories because we want to.

    2) Teach math and science harder, really push them as corner stones of education, if students aren't getting the concepts increase class length. I would say by grade 5 you should be comfortable with variables.

    3) Every day should have a gym component where kids are FORCED to participate,

    4) Science class should contain hands on experiments and labs. If you can't test it, don't teach it.

    5) Find a way to make homework interactive, not just copy question out of a book.

    6) Computer Programming should become a mandatory class starting in grade 4, get kids playing with visual languages, they massively help you learn and work out logical problems that be applied in other areas.

    7) Music class, make kids learn instruments or at least get involved with Music, this will allow there creative abilities to expand.


    8) Don't let the kids sit more then 1 hour at a time, make sure they're moving around and getting involved in the class.

    Those would be the initial adjustments I would make, I'm sure it's not perfect but it's a FAR better system then one currently in place.

  6. Re:No shit sherlock. by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Dumb people tend not to stay rich for very long.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  7. Need for good parents by csumpi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I agree with you but more importantly we need good parents. Less babysitters, less nannies, less ipad, less facebook, less drinking and drugs.

    Parents should spend time with their kids and be available to help.

  8. Bad headline, as usual by Khashishi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Headline: ...Smart Kids Become Successful Adults.
    Article: Math and reading skills correlate with success even more strongly than intelligence.

  9. Any word on the edges of the distribution? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It seems pretty unsurprising that superior academic achievement in childhood would, on average, lead to somewhat better professional outcomes, at least within the "what part of 'middle class' does your salary put you in" band of professional wage labor.

    I'd be curious to know what the data look like at the extremes of the distribution, though: "The data suggest, for example, that going up one reading level at age 7 was associated with a £5,000, or roughly $7,750, increase in income at age 42." So, people who earn, say £60,000 probably had better average performance at school age than the £50k or £40k tiers. What about the people who earn £600,000? There aren't even enough reading levels available to explain that. Is the relationship nonlinear(with each incremental increase in early performance carrying a greater incremental increase in outcome?), does correlation simply break down above(and possibly below) a certain adulthood salary band?

  10. Correction to Title by MobyDisk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, the article says the exact opposite of the title. The title should say

    Spoiler Alert: *SUCCESSFUL* Kids Become Successful Adults

    because the article says:

    These findings imply that basic childhood skills, independent of how smart you are, how long you stay in school, or the social class you started off in, will be important throughout your life," say Ritchie and Bates.

  11. That is not the problem by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Interesting

    However, there still is a big problem with kids in lower socioeconomic status obtaining higher grades

    Not at all. There is a problem with how society teaches kids, and it's just the case that some richer parents can overcome this handicap for their children.

    I was homeschooled at an early age. As part of that I did a number of things with groups of other homeschooled kids. Many of the parents were poor (my own included). But because schooling at home is so much more productive and meaningful most of the children did really well, and all of the ones I kept in contact with have done well later in life also.

    There is no problem being poor and being able to learn. Kids can learn in so many ways, many of them costing nothing or being free. You simply have to get out of the way and enable the spirit of exploration which is natural, instead of trying to crush it via conformity.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley