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Irish Judge Orders 'The Internet' To Delete Video

New submitter edanto writes "A young Irish man wrongly accused of jumping from a taxi without paying the fare has secured a judgement from an Irish court ordering the video removed from the entire Internet. Experts from Google, Youtube, Facebook, and others must tell the court in two weeks if this is technically possible. The thing is, the video is accurate, it is only a comment that wrongly identified Eoin McKeogh as the fare-jumper in the video that is inaccurate. It's not clear if the judge has made any orders about the comment."

54 of 243 comments (clear)

  1. Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Stupid judge, you can't order that, you ignorant ninny...

    By the powers vested in me, by myself, I hereby order you (the ninny) to stop breathing now and forever. You may be using oxygen I'll need later in my life.
    It's only wasted on you.

    1. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Google and them do a lot of business through Ireland, it might not be so easy for them to just ignore an order from an Irish judge.

    2. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Now if that judge was located in the US, then he could have had it deleted from the entire Internet.

    3. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2

      Any company that does business in europe would have to try and find a way to comply though.

      And the thing is, if most instances of 'the video' are actually links to a small number of hosted copies of the video on say google and facebook servers then it may not actually be that hard to hunt down on the big companies servers.

      One of the things Megaupload did was it ran some sort of a hash on uploaded files, and if they already had the file they just created a new symbolic link to the same file. I would not be surprised if google and facebook have similar technology. Sure you can re-encode it or modify the file and have a different hash, so there will be several versions of the same basic file. But it's not going to do google or facebook or yahoo any harm to try and figure out if they actually can be rid of it.

    4. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by asmkm22 · · Score: 2

      I doubt Google is concerned about any political fallout in Ireland, even after than stop laughing at this request. Ireland has a crappy enough job market as it is, without punishing the companies who are there for something like this. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot.

    5. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Google threatening to relocate its business to a friendlier European state is probably enough to make Irish politicians crap themselves and change the law to suit Google.

      Except Google uses Ireland as a tax haven, so first they'd need to find another jurisdiction in which it would be beneficial for them. And I'm not sure they'll easily find one.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by SecurityGuy · · Score: 2

      It's not about Google ignoring the order. Google could diligently remove all copies of the video from their servers. They can't remove it from mine, or yours. For that, the judge would have to order me and you to remove it, and not being under his jurisdiction, I expect I could ignore him with impunity (as long as I don't travel to .ie ever).

    7. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by OakDragon · · Score: 4, Funny

      ... Ireland has a crappy enough job market as it is, without punishing the companies who are there for something like this...

      Clearly - people can't even afford to pay their taxi fares.

    8. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Google like many others were using Ireland as a tax dodge and as we have seen in the USA what happens when you put the corps in the driver seat now Ireland has a collapsing economy and companies like Google are slowly but surely bailing like rats from a sinking ship.

      This is of course the reason why free trade and globalism will cause a worldwide economic collapse, it forces every country on the planet to be as weak and powerless as the most broken third world country because thanks to the ability to send a trillion dollars around the world in seconds there really is no loyalty to ones home anymore.

      Our founding fathers saw this coming all those years ago, too bad we didn't listen. Thomas Jefferson: "Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains."

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    9. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by sheehaje · · Score: 2

      You know, maybe Google should offer this guy a job to delete the video himself AND he will be able to afford cab fare. Kill 2 birds with one blarney stone.

    10. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Google threatening to relocate its business to a friendlier European state is probably enough to make Irish politicians crap themselves and change the law to suit Google.

      You're kidding, right? There are no friendlier states.

      Ireland does have low corporate tax rates, but that isn't enough for Google and other large companies (for example, my company's VMware purchases are bought on paper from an Irish subsidiary).

      There's a technique called the double Irish Dutch sandwich which lets you create corporate structures resident in Ireland but Ireland considers them non-resident for tax purposes.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

    11. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by Jahta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Stupid judge, you can't order that, you ignorant ninny...

      Sadly this is not that uncommon. In the UK last year there was a spate of so-called "super injunctions" being issued to various celebs; these were meant to not only prohibit publishing details of the subject under injunction but also any reporting of the mere fact that an injunction had been granted.

      At one stage the High Court granted a permanent injunction against the "whole world" to prevent details of a married celebrity’s affair from being revealed (Super injunctions and the law). Much hilarity ensued.

    12. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by ArcadeMan · · Score: 5, Funny

      I also don't plan on ever traveling to Internet Explorer.

    13. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 2

      Really? The IT sector is booming in Ireland, along with numerous other sectors like pharma and agriculture. Most of the unemployment is in the construction and related sectors, like furniture shops, and they should never have been allowed to balloon to the prominence they reached, the banking regulator authorising mortgages was imo deliberately asleep at the wheel. And even with all that mess the country would still be in great shape right now if the minister for finance at the time (now dead) hadn't issue a blanket guarantee to the banks making private debts public.

    14. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by BigFire · · Score: 2

      Google threatening to relocate its business to a friendlier European state is probably enough to make Irish politicians crap themselves and change the law to suit Google.

      You're kidding, right? There are no friendlier states.

      Ireland does have low corporate tax rates, but that isn't enough for Google and other large companies (for example, my company's VMware purchases are bought on paper from an Irish subsidiary).

      There's a technique called the double Irish Dutch sandwich which lets you create corporate structures resident in Ireland but Ireland considers them non-resident for tax purposes.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

      And this is perfectly legal. The European Union's tax code is specifically designed to foster competition between tax jurisdiction. You want business, lower your tax.

    15. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by EdZ · · Score: 2

      Luxembourg? Works for Amazon.

    16. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Easy.
      The Netherlands.
      Biggest tax-haven of Europe, at least if you are big corporation.
      If you are a normal citizen or a small company the Dutch tax department will suck you dry.

    17. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by jd2112 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Perhaps they could search for one on Bing?

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    18. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by DragonTHC · · Score: 2

      Here's the real problem though: The Internet is sovereign. Granted parts of it are controlled by certain governments. The DNS roots are controlled by the U.S. But The Internet, as a whole, is sovereign. It is the manifestation of the democratic will of the people of planet Earth. And One does not simply delete something from the Internet. The Internet is a self-healing, electric hydra. Once you upload something, It's there forever. Ireland does not have jurisdiction over the Internet any more than the U.S. does. Google doesn't control the Internet. The best they could hope for is to actively block its indexing. Though even that's going to be hard with the Streisand Effect, it's an ugly form of censorship.

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    19. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by St.Creed · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Thomas Jefferson was wrong, in this case, as several economists argued later. Merchants without a country tend to fare really bad when the merchants that do have ties with the rulers (or are directly in control of) another country make laws banning the first group from doing business in the country of the second group. If the first group of homeless merchants don't have strong ties with rulers somewhere they're up shit creek without a paddle.

      While multinationals often have their "head office" in a tax haven for tax reasons, the *real* headquarters is always located in a spot close to political power, where the owners of said company have cultural, personal and financial ties with the people having political power.

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    20. Re:Overstepping your jurisdiction much? by cusco · · Score: 3

      Er, no. The Internet actually belongs to a bunch of companies that very few people have ever heard of, like Alter.net, Level13, Akamai and the like, who own the backbone that all your data flows through. It's a nice fantasy, though.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  2. Quick! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you've got a Microsoft Surface, download the video from YouTube - pronto!

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you've got a Microsoft Surface, download the video from YouTube - pronto!

      only one man is our last hope then

    2. Re:Quick! by RoboRay · · Score: 4, Funny

      (sound of crickets)

  3. Cue the Streisand effect in ..... by i_want_you_to_throw_ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    3...2...1...

    1. Re:Cue the Streisand effect in ..... by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 5, Informative

      Also a testament to the stupidity of mob justice. Before it emerged that this guy had been wrongly identified, you had people posting his home address on busily trafficked sites, his phone number, metaphorically throwing nooses over lamp posts, the works. Afterwards, the same people were still trying to pin something on him somehow because he had the temerity to make them look like trigger happy vigilante clowns without a clue, which is what they are.

      I don't blame him for trying to strike back through the legal system but since the video doesn't in fact identify him I'm not sure why he wants it pulled down. Renamed maybe might be a better option.

    2. Re:Cue the Streisand effect in ..... by Jawnn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But why? It's not like it's some celebrity using the judicial system as a bully. And there's not really any amusing or interesting content to the video. Is it just cause we don't like judicial orders here?

      True, but there's no denying that that video will be viewed a few more times than it would have been before the poor lad went to court to bitch about it. What he should have done is fire back on Facebook, Twitter, and various other social media. You know where all the people who care about useless shit like this will see it and know he's innocent.

    3. Re:Cue the Streisand effect in ..... by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except he is innocent. So the Streisand effect is a good thing for him if it gets the word out that it wasn't him in the video.

    4. Re:Cue the Streisand effect in ..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sounds like they should go after these vigilantes instead. That's one area where I'd fully support "making strong examples of." Internet vigilantism has only started to make an impact but will get tragically big real quick, it needs to get nipped in the bud asap.

    5. Re:Cue the Streisand effect in ..... by ultranova · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Internet vigilantism has only started to make an impact but will get tragically big real quick, it needs to get nipped in the bud asap.

      Internet vigilantism can't be nipped as long as "tough on crime" remains popular, since it's the same thing in different guise: people like letting their sadistic impulses out every now and then, and if they can pretend they're doing it for the sake of justice it's all the more enjoyable.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    6. Re:Cue the Streisand effect in ..... by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      In a more rational world, we'd try to find ways to get low crime rates without spending too much. Imprisoning people is expensive. Other countries seem to get low crime rates while imprisoning many fewer people.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    7. Re:Cue the Streisand effect in ..... by cusco · · Score: 2

      Madoff only went to jail because he ripped off rich people. The ones that stole so much they crashed the worldwide economy got bonuses.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  4. I... um. Ok. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

    Judges can order this sort of thing. It's effectiveness will come down to whether anyone cares enough to re-upload it multiple times in multiple places. The judge is in the wrong for misunderstanding the source of the slander, but I'm not sure what that means for "my rights online"

    1. Re:I... um. Ok. by almitydave · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Taking a stand against ridiculous court orders. Civil disobedience to promote awareness and justice. Defiance of an illegitimate order from a lawful authority.

      Basically, to point out the futility of what is frankly an idiotic order. The experts ought to tell the judge that once it's on the internet, it's there for all time.

      --
      my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
      I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
    2. Re:I... um. Ok. by pla · · Score: 2

      O'm not sure what that means for "my rights online"

      It means that we have yet another shining example of the last bastion of justice in a 1st-world legal system demonstrating their complete incompetence when it comes to making decisions about the most powerful tool ever devised by humans.

      Not only does it show an outright scary lack of understanding of how the internet works (in the organizational sense), but it also proves him as so out of touch with the reality of the modern world that he doesn't even recognize the sort of memes we pretty much take for granted - In this case, the "Streisand effect".


      / I've got my copy, and you have no jurisdiction over me, Mr. Peart. Your move.

    3. Re:I... um. Ok. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      Believe it or not, google(in Dublin) has assets that the Irish government can act on as a means of enforcing their laws. Facebook doubtless has bank accounts for deals with advertisers based in Ireland too.

      There's no international immunity when you act within the nation giving the ruling. They'd probably have a harder time going after vimeo or pirate bay, which are both out of their jurisdiction.

  5. Good luck with that... by jwthompson2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At least the court has asked it it's even technically feasible; good luck with that.

    --
    Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
  6. Eoin McKeugh just became immortal. . . . by Salgak1 · · Score: 3, Funny
    . . . . .by GUARANTEEING that the video in question will be mirrored, and parodied, etc.

    Somebody obviously knows NOTHING about how the 'net works.. . This is, after all. . . . serious business..

  7. With no power comes no responsiblity by Anita+Coney · · Score: 4, Informative

    By the power invested by my lion tamer hat, I order unicorns to stop farting rainbows.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    1. Re:With no power comes no responsiblity by msauve · · Score: 2

      If you stop rainbows from farting, where will Skittles come from?

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  8. A different perspective by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sure, the obvious spin the summary evokes is that the judge is one of those numbskull government bureaucrats, who thinks the Internet has a central authority that can respond to such requests. Let's all laugh at the silly judge and reinforce our anti-government hivemind.

    On the other hand, the judge likely ordered that the video be taken down, knowing perfectly well that it's impossible to be removed completely. However, those big companies make up the majority of the video's audience, so if they take down the video (and its associated accusation of Mr. McKeogh), the effect is to substantially reduce the harm to Mr. McKeogh's reputation... which is exactly the goal. Since the ruling is in Ireland, where those companies keep their double-Irish tax avoidance entities, the companies will of course want to stay in the good grace of the Irish courts.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    1. Re:A different perspective by almitydave · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except that even if it's completely removed once, it will resurface widely and immediately. If reducing the harm to Mr. McKeogh's reputation is the priority, they should leave all known copies up, but add a note that the person is NOT Mr. McKeogh, possibly with a link to this case.

      I'm sure the judge is not a numbskull, but the whole problem is not the video, but the misinformation accompanying the video.

      --
      my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
      I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
    2. Re:A different perspective by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      How well would that work, though? By now, the comments on the videos apparently have McKeogh's home address, phone number, and other personal details. A small note of sanity won't stop the self-righteous asshats of the Internet from making this man's life hell. Even through this discussion, there's already many commentors promising to perpetuate the man's suffering, just out of spite for being told that not to libel others.

      The problem is the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. Someone's personal life has been severely harmed by the information these companies continue to publish. When they're asked to stop publishing such lies, the schmucks crawl out to protest this affront to their ability to screw up others' lives, and they promise to just screw up the man's life even worse than before.

      This is not civilization. This is unbridled sadism masquerading as vigilantism.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  9. By commenting I can delete videos? Cool! by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 4, Informative

    So, if there's some video I don't like on the Internet, I just go there and add a comment saying that it is this Irish dude doing whatever it is that is in the video? I can think of lots of embarrassing videos that various celebrities would like to see go away. Just add "Hey! That's Eoin McKeogh!" to the video and then sue in Ireland.

    This is just one of many problems I see with this ruling. It just was the most interesting one.

  10. It's a complicated thing, but by fisted · · Score: 4, Funny

    technically it's not that difficult. There are engineers who know which screws to remove, where the hooks and claws sit, etc, in order to disassemble the Internet and pull out that video. It's a matter of cost, mainly, and while it is a daunting task already to dismantle the machine, it's even more difficult to properly put it back together in the end.
    I wouldn't be the one to risk that, tbh. What if you, say, forget a gear, or mismatch the pressure release valve?

    1. Re:It's a complicated thing, but by Solandri · · Score: 2

      No, no, no. You know the joke about asking a mathematician to corral a dozen sheep inside a hula hoop? The mathematician thinks about it for a minute, then steps inside the hula hoop and declares that his side is the outside. That's what we need to do here. Just cut off the guy's Internet access forever. Then he won't know that this is going on, and everything will be just fine.

  11. And The Answer Is: by ewhac · · Score: 4, Funny

    Experts from Google, Youtube, Facebook, and others must tell the court in two weeks if this is technically possible.

    No.

    This has been another edition of Simple Answers to Simple Questions: Simpleton Edition.

    Schwab

  12. A big opportunity by gmuslera · · Score: 2

    As that judge seem to be stranded in 1990 or so, we can use him to send messages to the past and avoid a lot of catastrophes.

  13. Re:clueless judge by Shimbo · · Score: 5, Funny

    There should be an authority that can prevent Slashdot from being trolled by a summary that seems to have no basis in the original story. We could call this hypothetical super-being an editor.

  14. A good way to defend his own name by edanto · · Score: 2
    I think that the judge is perfectly conscious of the impossibility of removing all copies of the video from the internet, but the young man made the request knowing that it would get all this attention, and help him to clear his name.

    When this incident happened, it was a huge new story (in Ireland at least) and a fair few people that I know were unaware that his name was cleared, when the dust settled. This, to me, seems like an effective use of a modified Striesand effect.

  15. Comments owned by the poster. by Dareth · · Score: 2

    Let the poster explain to the judge that he "owns" the comment, but doesn't have a delete or edit button.

    Judge might rule Slashdot be taken off the internet.

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  16. what's powdering that wig, judge? by swschrad · · Score: 2

    the Webizens hereby order The Law to get a clue, cease and desist from idiocy. if we hold you in contempt, your face will be pasted on millions of cat pictures. woot.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  17. You got the title wrong by eyenot · · Score: 2

    Should be titled:

    "Decent Man vs. The Douchebag Mouthbreathing Adult Children Of the Internet And Their Coddling Surrogate-Parent Corporate 1% Elite"

    --
    "Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
  18. Low-tax jurisdictional arbitrage for Google etc. by billstewart · · Score: 2

    Lots of big corporations have more complicated tax liabilities that can't be handled by being registered in just one company. It's not uncommon to have multiple layers of corporate shells, with different layers being the ones that officially do some part of the business in that country so as to minimize overall taxes. One such approach is the Double Irish Arrangement often with a "Dutch Sandwich" in between, and Wikipedia identifies Google as one of a number of well-known large companies doing things like this.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks