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Nasdaq Fined $10M Over Facebook IPO Failures

twoheadedboy writes "Nasdaq has been fined $10 million by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission over 'poor systems and decision-making' during the Facebook initial public offering. When Facebook went public on 18 May 2012, it was hoping for a major success, but technical glitches and poor decision making at Nasdaq caused real problems. The SEC said 'a design limitation' in the system to match IPO buy and sell orders was at the root of the disruption, thought to have cost investors $500 million. Orders failed to register properly, leaving banks like Citigroup and UBS in the lurch and making additional, unnecessary bids. They may still win money back from Nasdaq if legal challenges go their way."

28 of 91 comments (clear)

  1. Note the discrepancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The SEC said 'a design limitation' in the system to match IPO buy and sell orders was at the root of the disruption, thought to have cost investors $500 million.

    Nasdaq has been fined $10 million by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission over 'poor systems and decision-making' during the Facebook initial public offering.

    And people wonder why the average person hates the very idea of the stock market.

    1. Re:Note the discrepancy by ranton · · Score: 2

      Large lawsuits are already in the works. I assume that this fine makes it easier for the plaintiffs to show Nasdaq did do something wrong, but IANAL. I doubt that Nasdaq will get off this easy.

      Now we just need to punish the people who valuated Facebook so high.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    2. Re:Note the discrepancy by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

      Now we just need to punish the people who valuated Facebook so high.

      Why? I could go out on the street and sell lemonade for $100 a cup. With enough work I could probably find a famous person or two to tell the world that the lemonade is so good it's totally worth it. How is it my fault if there are enough idiots out there for me to make a profit?

    3. Re:Note the discrepancy by ranton · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now we just need to punish the people who valuated Facebook so high.

      You mean like the hundreds of millions of users it has and who still value the service to the point where major established companies are bending over backwards to fit Facebook into their marketing schemes? Huh. Weird, I can't tell if that's more misanthropic or solipsistic of you.

      Are you being serious? Considering Facebook's stock started at $38 and is now $23, and it took less than a week to lose 25% of its value, the only people being misanthropic or solipsistic are the ones who thought Facebook was worth such as ridiculous P/E ratio in the first place. Or the people who took advantage of the more weak minded traders who wanted another get rich quick scheme by buying an IPO they just expected to double in value over the first week.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    4. Re:Note the discrepancy by Score+Whore · · Score: 5, Informative

      The more fundamental problem was NASDAQs inability to carry the trades so that people who were interested in trading FB stock were entirely unable to receive market indicators of the value of the stock nor were they able to modify trades. It's known that trades were cancelled shortly after FB began trading yet due to the exchanges issues the trades were settled hours later regardless of the cancellation.

    5. Re:Note the discrepancy by mspohr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Now we just need to punish the people who valuated Facebook so high."

      I just don't understand this logic.
      In retrospect, Facebook was priced "high" but still had lots of greedy people clamoring to buy it at that price.
      Who should we punish?
      - The greedy people who thought they would make a killing by flipping the stock?
      or
      - The greedy people at Facebook who priced the IPO to maximize revenue?

      Nobody forced anyone to buy the stock. Nobody committed fraud by hiding material facts.
      This is just a clusterfuck of greedy people. NASDAQ did screw up and made it harder for the greedy buyers to get in or get out and make profits. NASDAQ should pay for these screwups... and $10 million is peanuts.
      I will enjoy watching all of these greedy people fight over money.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    6. Re:Note the discrepancy by trum4n · · Score: 2

      You can't keep the cup. However, there are some "leaked" ones popping up on ebay... Oh, exclusive things magically have value.

    7. Re:Note the discrepancy by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > And people wonder why the average person hates the very idea of the stock market.

      The average person does not hate it. Just your own little moral online tribal society hates it, where you reinforce to each other statements about the awfulness of this or that vis-a-vis politics, in support of a meme-based amalgam of people looking for power themselves.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    8. Re:Note the discrepancy by DarkOx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now we just need to punish the people who valuated Facebook so high.

      Why? the market did that for you. The people who valued facebook that high at the end of the day are the ones who agreed to pay the $38 dollar IPO price. They now own shares worth ~$23.50. Isn't that punishment enough?

      It was mostly big institutional investors too, probably could not happened to a more deserving bunch.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    9. Re:Note the discrepancy by X.25 · · Score: 2

      You mean like the hundreds of millions of users it has and who still value the service to the point where major established companies are bending over backwards to fit Facebook into their marketing schemes? Huh. Weird, I can't tell if that's more misanthropic or solipsistic of you.

      Millions of flies can not be wrong either.

  2. They should THANK Nasdaq by damn_registrars · · Score: 2

    The delays caused the investors to lose less money than they would have lost otherwise. Had things been happening at maximum speed people would have come to realize even sooner that facebook was wildly overvalued and the market correction would have driven the price even lower. Instead it only lost around half of its value on opening day.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:They should THANK Nasdaq by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 3, Informative

      Check out that tractor beam YouTube video. I don't understand the mechanics, but someone was dumping a lot of money into keeping that stock price up.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    2. Re:They should THANK Nasdaq by steelfood · · Score: 2

      No, you're thinking of the little guy who would've bought into the hype. The SEC is thinking of the institutional investors who put money into FB before the IPO who would've sold high on the hype (and still did, to a large extent).

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    3. Re:They should THANK Nasdaq by Swistak · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's called underwriting - when stock goes public, it usually has one or more major banks as underwriters which are required to keep stock at certain price (not neceserilly a IPO price, limit can be lower). Company can go public without it, but most big IPOs have that option.
      It's a system designed to avoid "flops" and for more realistic IPO prices. If underwriter values stock to high they have to spend money buying that stock.
      Usually there's time and/or a value limit (so we'll prop up price fo x days, or we'll spend Y$ to keep it above Z$)

  3. Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A 10 million fine on the scale of these companies is NOTHING... the paperwork to pay it costs as much as the fine...

    Once they get to this 'too big to fail' state... any fine under a billion dollars is nothing. You're just wasting everyones time.
    Either correct the fine so that the company will notice and will change.. Or just ignore it.

    This half assed way of doing things we use right now is pointless.

    stop it.

    1. Re:Why bother? by tazan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      According to the article NASDAQ made 10.8 million profit by shorting Facebook in just one of their rule violations. So they aren't even getting fined as much as the profits they made violating the rules.

  4. Don't you mean made investors $500 Million? by cnaumann · · Score: 2

    Because when you average it all out, no one really lost anything.

  5. Re:insiders got burned by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It depends what you mean by Joe q investor, but it is possible for a lot of people.

    https://eresearch.fidelity.com/eresearch/ipo/ipocalendar.jhtml#eligibility

    But really you don't want to mess with that sort of thing. Sound investing isn't about gambling with hot ipos. It's about using sound principles of portfolio management, diversification and risk management, and keeping management costs down.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323475304578502973521526236.html

  6. Lemme get this straight by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    We overvalued FB by some margin and then some, didn't realize we're essentially scryers looking into our crystal balls that display models that we built, for people like us, who believe these schemes to be true (and hence make them true, as long as petty things like market or reality don't butt in), we lost money because we're too dumb to realize our models have nothing to do with reality and once they hit reality they crumble.

    But it's all Nasdaq's fault for doing ... uh ... what exactly? Not allowing us to blow away our money fast enough? Because that's essentially the "mistake" Nasdaq made. But hey, maybe that's required for the scheme to work, because the only thing that would've kept FB share values up was money artificially pumped into it to inflate it.

    So yes, Nasdaq is to blame. They didn't let us play the market like we usually do, sue their pants off 'em!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Lemme get this straight by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wrong.

      The problem is that Nasdaq wasn't able to deliver trade confirmations to brokerage houses and institutional buyers. This caused these organizations to try to place multiple orders that they didn't actually want, and it contributed to price uncertainty in the market.

    2. Re:Lemme get this straight by smellotron · · Score: 2

      When most of the trades where shorts, and there were few buyers, hell yeah, you are not going to get confirmation of a short sale until some buyer comes in, otherwise they would all be naked short sales.

      This demonstrates some solid misunderstanding of what happened on a technical level. Nobody sends trades to the exchange: they send orders. The exchange will acknowledge that orders are accepted by the system, and will send further acknowledgments if the orders execute. An acknowledgement should arrive within milliseconds of placing the order, even if the order does not immediately execute; it will "rest in the book". If you change your mind, you can request to cancel a resting order, but it is possible that by the time your cancel request arrives at the exchange, the order has already been filled (by arbitrageurs, most likely!)

      The big institutional buyers did not receive their order acknowledgments... so they sent more orders. Then, several hours later, acknowledgments and executions arrived for both sets of orders! Well, it's extremely dangerous to continue trading in a situation like this, they found out the hard way, and now they're trying to recoup their losses directly from NASDAQ. Note that someone besides NASDAQ must have been on the other side of that execution, and that counterparty probably isn't planning on returning their windfall profits to the exchange so that the exchange can pay out the losers.

  7. Want to Avoid this problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Don't go public to begin with. Screw the idea of shareholders. Once you go down that road, you no longer "own" your company. You operate at the largesse of the shareholders, who are only interested in money. Money, in the long run, is the poorest of motivators for success.

    1. Re:Want to Avoid this problem by wisnoskij · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because before going public FB was totally not about the money.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  8. The taint of Goldman Sachs by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Once they got in and started floating that insane value for Facebook pre IPO, it should've been obvious to investors that the fix was in. If you see GS jumping in on anything, think of it as a neon "Warning: anal rape ahead" sign. Unless, you're privy to the innards of the deal of course...

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  9. Re:How do you value a "FaceBook"? by tompaulco · · Score: 2

    The question is how do you accurately value a company with an unproven business model and no clear profit lines? Also considering that this company has had a whole legion of predecessors who had the same idea, but failed for one reason or another to become profitable or sustainable.

    Take all the subscribers, assume 20% growth in subscribers per year, factor in for interest, compounded continuously. Then take the resultant number and multiply by zero.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  10. Re:How do you value a "FaceBook"? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just remember: An 'analyst' is somebody who can make more money by selling advice on investing than he can by investing according to his own advice...

  11. Re:Why a trading problem with only Facebook? by InsectOverlord · · Score: 2

    This was covered by many sources (for instance, Computerworld). Apparently the process that failed was the Nasdaq IPO Cross.

  12. Re:insiders got burned by smellotron · · Score: 3, Informative

    What if you buy the new hot ipo and then immediately short the stock?

    "Buying the IPO" is just buying stock in the IPO auction. "Shorting" the stock means selling stock which you do not own. So if you buy the IPO and then immediately sell, you're not actually shorting it. This is high-risk day trading, and not an activity recommended for Joe Q. Investor. Not to mention that the high IPO price for FB seems to have been crafted to punish traders expecting an "IPO pop".

    Now, suppose you wanted to sell more than you initially bought. Then, the excess sell quantity actually is "short", and you must confirm the ability to borrow the stock from e.g. your broker or some other large institution. If you do not confirm the ability to borrow, then you are shorting "naked" which is not permitted. Because everyone is in this situation on IPO day, you will probably have a hard time finding someone to borrow from without paying out the nose for the "stock loan".