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Writer Jack Vance Dead At 96

New submitter angelofdarkness writes "Jack Vance died Sunday evening. He was 96. Thank you for the stories and adventures and for influencing the games I still play after all these years. From the article: 'A science fiction Grand Master, Vance is probably best remembered for his four Dying Earth novels, which take place in a far-future Earth where the sun has dimmed and magic has been reestablished as a dominant force. They feature a brilliant picaresque adventure tone, including the unforgettable thief Cugel the Clever, and they were also celebrated in a recent anthology Songs of the Dying Earth, edited by George R.R. Martin and Gardner Dozois. These books contain Vance's characteristic ironic, lightly humorous style, which has influenced generations of science fiction writers." Reader paai points to the official Jack Vance website, and this 2009 profile in the New York Times.

21 of 83 comments (clear)

  1. Also influenced D&D by JoshuaZ · · Score: 5, Informative

    For many, Vance is most remembered for "Vancian" casting in Dungeons and Dragons where spellcasters prepare their spells in advance and then cast the spells, causing them to leave their minds. Gary Gygax, one of the two major founders of D&D, liked Dying Earth and so incorporated the idea into the game. The casting idea does show up in the Dying Earth, but in a very different way, where spells are big and rare, and having a spell in one's mind takes up a lot of space. In contrast, in most versions of Dungeon's and Dragons a wizard could have many spells memorized at the same time. To some extent, Vancian casting has been a cause of controversy, with some people blaming it for being partially responsible for the overpowerd nature of spellcasters in some editions, especially 3.0 and 3.5. Yet, many who rejected 4th edition did so because 4th dropped the Vancian casting.

    Vance is also remembered in D&D in a different way- the legendary lich-wizard "Vecna" was named that as an anagram of Vance. Jack Vance had a lot of influence on a lot of different aspects of scifi and fantasy culture.

    1. Re:Also influenced D&D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Among many other things that found their way into D&D, he created IOUN stones. Gygax decided that all-caps wasn't necessary, which I always thought was a shame.

      Also, 4e's Wizards did have Vancian casting - unlike every other class, they had a spellbook with multiple big spells in, and chose which one to memorise each day. It's not the bastardised, fucked-up version of Vancian casting earlier editions used, and it's not pure Vance, but it was a cool addition. 3e's overpowered casters weren't due to the spell memorisation system - they were because the playtesters and designers were literally incompetent, adding and changing rules "because duh, that makes sense!" then "playtesting" by playing exactly as they would in an earlier edition, without actually looking at the rules. Save-or-lose spells come to mind - the playtesters played blaster wizards whose idea of a fight-ending spell was Fireball, not considering the new monster maths' effects on HP and failing to recognise the way the rules massively nerfed saving throws.

      I'm an idiot grog who goes off on tangents.Vance owns. Ignore the rest.

    2. Re:Also influenced D&D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nothing has done as much harm to tabletop gaming as Vancian casting. This is putting completely aside any debates over the balance of spellcasters in D&D, the mechanic itself, as a game mechanic, is one of the worst examples to still endure (in the form of Paizo's Pathfinder) from the Dark Ages of game design when no one knew what the fuck they were doing. These days, thankfully, game designers have largely moved on as far as the format of video games are concerned.

      But, again, still, tabletop gaming as a hobby remains a crippled ruin because of traditionalists clinging to one of the worst game devices in history.

      Remember kids: games are not stories. If some mechanic would make for a great story, driving plot and drama, that doesn't mean that it is a good mechanic for games.

    3. Re:Also influenced D&D by PraiseBob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Remember kids: games are not stories. If some mechanic would make for a great story, driving plot and drama, that doesn't mean that it is a good mechanic for games.

      If you want a pure strategy and tactics game, then choose a boardgame or computer game. Everyone I know that likes pen & paper RPG, likes it specifically because it makes a great format for collective storytelling, with some rules thrown in (the book), and some chance thrown in (the dice), to make it more challenging / interesting / dramatic.

      Settlers of Catan is a well balanced game, with great mechanics- but people don't name their cities and come up with riveting tales about the empires they are building. Warhammer 40k is a great tactical wargame, but there usually isn't a lot of "character development". D&D is neither of those games.

    4. Re:Also influenced D&D by PraiseBob · · Score: 2

      What a bunch of B.S. D&D came from miniatures wargaming.

      And dice came from throwing rocks around, and chess came from an Indian game called chaturanga, and cards and dominos both had the same precursor game in China. I hate to break it to you because it makes me feel old too, but Gygax's original version of dungeon crawling is the same kind of ancient history to most players today. When compared to the average age of most players, the "recent" trend of improv theater has been that way their whole lives.

      Settlers is well-known for being horridly UN-balanced!

      Any game that uses dice adds an element of randomness. Thats the entire point of dice after all. It makes it possible for less skilled players to stay competitive, and keeps the game on the "casual" side of things. Otherwise you go into a whole different game category, and get games like Chess & Go, where the best player will almost always win. (People don't give their chess pieces unique names and personalities either!)

    5. Re:Also influenced D&D by kermidge · · Score: 2

      Don't know about the "something quite recent"; from my own experience circa '79, it was a natural outgrowth of the whole character and delving bit that we'd have some interesting yarn-spinning and negotiations going on; these started partly as a carry-over from our diplomatic discussions while playing double-board Risk. For that matter, at the several GenCons I was at in late '80s (our computer club ran Midi-Maze), saw some of the D&D folks show up for a game all in costume, and the play of the play seemed almost as important as the play itself.

  2. In memoriam by WillAdams · · Score: 2

    posted to: http://foreverness.jackvance.com/

    Thank you for your written works --- they meant a lot to me, and I would have been a better person if I'd discovered them when I was younger. Thank you to your family for sharing your gifts with us --- I know that must have been a sacrifice at times and it is appreciated.

    I just wrote in a card being given to a young lady who is just graduating high school,

    ``Life is a message written in ink. Write carefully, write beautifully, & write w/ character.''

    Congratulations on a life written w/ care, using beautiful words and w/ a character which shines as an example of what men should aspire to be.

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    1. Re:In memoriam by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Informative

      ``Life is a message written in ink. Write carefully, write beautifully, & write w/ character.

      P.S. Write out words in full, especially when they're only four goddam letters, or you'll look like a twat.''

      FTFY.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:In memoriam by Zan+Zu+from+Eridu · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The girl I met in Eridu
      Was kind beyond belief;
      The hours that I spent with her
      Were hours far too brief.

      Where willows shade the river bank,
      She urged that I recline.
      She fed me figs and poured me full
      Of pomegranate wine.

      I told of force and time and space,
      I told of hence and yonder;
      I asked if she would come with me
      To know my worlds of wonder.

      She clasped her knees; her voice was soft;
      "It dazes me to ponder
      The blazing stars and tintamars,
      The whirling ways you wander!

      "You are you and I am I,
      And best that you return.
      And I will stay in Eridu
      With all this yet to learn."

      - Navarth

      R.I.P. mad poet, you will be missed dearly

  3. Great back when I was a teenager, still great now? by Camembert · · Score: 2

    Jack Vance: I read around 10 of his books as an SF obsessed teenager. A particular personal favourite was the Tschai cycle. But, that's already 30 years ago. I wonder how his stories hold up these days? I find much classic SF too simple nowadays.

  4. Lyonesse by C0C0C0 · · Score: 2

    I've actually never gotten around to Dying Earth, but I have vivid memories of being immersed in Vance's Lyonesse trilogy (Starting with Suldren's Garden). At a time when it seemed like everyone was aping Tolkien, Vance went back to a sort of magical Camelot mixed up with Atlantis and Midsummer Night's Dream. It's one of the books I recommend to anyone who will listen to me.

    --
    You are totally blocking my view of the wall. - Dogbert
    1. Re:Lyonesse by WillAdams · · Score: 2

      Agreed. Lyonesse is simply magical, and it and Poul Anderson's _The Broken Sword_ and _The Merman's Children_ are a welcome break from imaginary fantasy world, instead being steeped in history and tradition.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  5. Re:Writer Stephen King Dead at 65 by KatchooNJ · · Score: 2

    The King death rumor is just that... a rumor. He's alive and well.

    http://en.mediamass.net/people/stephen-king/deathhoax.html

    --
    "Never give up, for that is just the time and place when the tide will change." -Harriet Beecher Stowe ^_^
  6. Re:Great back when I was a teenager, still great n by Jesrad · · Score: 2

    His short(ish) novel "The blue world" can't get old, as it is mainly an intemporal replay of much of man's history.

    --
    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  7. Re:Vance was a giant in the field by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A favorite of mine was the novella the Moon Moth, which was his entry in the Science Fiction Hall of Fame anthologies. The society depicted was about as foreign as could be imagined, and described in such amazing detail:

    "And what instruments do you play?"

    "Well—I was given to understand that any small instrument
    was adequate, or that I could merely sing."

    "Very inaccurate. Only slaves sing without accompaniment.
    I suggest that you learn the following instruments
    as quickly as possible: The hymerkin for your slaves. The ganga for conversation between intimates or one a trifle
    lower than yourself in strakh. The kiv for casual polite intercourse. The zachinko for more formal dealings. The
    strapan or the krodatch for your social inferiors—in your case, should you wish to insult someone. The gomapard*
    or the double-kamanthil** for ceremonials." He considered a moment. "The crebarin, the water-lute and the slobo are
    highly useful also—but perhaps you'd better learn the other instruments
    first. They should provide at least a
    rudimentary means of communication."

    * Gomapard: one of the few electric instruments used on Sirene. An oscillator produces an oboelike tone which is modulated,
    choked, vibrated, raised and lowered in pitch by four keys.
    ** Double-kamanthil: an instrument similar to the ganga, except the tones are produced by twisting and inclining a disk of
    rosined leather against one or more of the forty-six strings.

  8. Reading his books his best memorial / also Wolfe by Savantissimo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Those who haven't read The Dying Earth series, or Jack Vance's later Lyonesse series really are missing a treat. It isn't for no reason that in 2006 his fans published a meticulously copy-edited 44-volume edition of his works, usually selling for over $3500. (There are cheaper editions, of course.)

    Gene Wolfe is a big fan of Jack Vance's writing. Wolfe himself is one of the best writers ever - the Science Fiction Writer's Association named him Grand Master for lifetime achievement this year. (29 named in the last 38 years, 10 still living, Jack Vance was named in 1997)
    Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, which made his name, recasts Vance's Dying Earth series, while adding mind-bending depths. Highly recommended.

    --
    "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
  9. Re:Reading his books his best memorial / also Wolf by rvw · · Score: 2

    Those who haven't read The Dying Earth series, or Jack Vance's later Lyonesse series really are missing a treat. It isn't for no reason that in 2006 his fans published a meticulously copy-edited 44-volume edition of his works, usually selling for over $3500. (There are cheaper editions, of course.)

    About a year or two ago I looked for EPUB ebooks from him, but couldn't find them. For him a bit late, but not for me: jackvance.com/ebooks/shop/. No DRM, and a good price. I think I will start reading again! :-) And thanks for the Gene Wolf tip!

  10. golden age of SF/Fantasy paperback is so over by bzipitidoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seems all the authors I grew up on are going. Anne McCaffrey last year, David Eddings in 2009, Fred Saberhagen in 2007, Robert Jordan and Roger Zelazny at the far too young age of 58 in 2007 and 1995 respectively, Robert Asprin in 2008 at the hardly older age of 61, Isaac Asimov age 72 in 1992, Arthur Clarke in 2008, and Robert Heinlein in 1988. Just glad Jack Vance lived this long.

    I suppose it's only natural-- published, successful authors were all at least 20 years older than I was when I started reading for fun. The first author I read for fun on my own was Tolkien, 4 years after his death, and from there I got into SF/Fantasy. It was also my introduction to bookstores, as the public libraries at that time either didn't carry Tolkien-- still too new for them, or always had all their copies checked out.

    When the price of paperbacks went over $5 in the early 1990s, rising at more than double the rate of inflation, it seemed like sheer greed to me. Jarred with the generally positive morality depicted in the books, making that seem hypocritical. So I gradually dropped out, quit buying new from bookstores, and now I hardly ever even visit anymore, not even used bookstores or libraries, and have lost my familiarity with the titles available. Too many other leisure activities to do. And I haven't taken to the e-readers, too much DRM. For me the golden age of the SF/Fantasy book and bookstore was the 1980s. $1.95 each in the early 80s, cheap enough I'd try lots of books, no need to check a review or award list beforehand to see if it was worth the money. Was good while it lasted.

    --
    Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
  11. Re:Questions for the fans by RabidReindeer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've never heard of the guy and was looking a bit into his stuff on Amazon. How "humorous" are his writings?

    Don't look for belly-laughs. He's not Terry Pratchett. He went more for the sly, subtle approach, often with characters playing elaborate practical jokes on each other. This is a signature feature in the Dying Earth series, where the players all know that the sun could wink out at any instant, had already pretty much been there/done that/recycled the T shirt for polishing rags and so really had nothing to lose. Also, his "clever protagonists" often are not nearly as clever as they think they are, Especially Cugel the Clever and Rhialto the Marvellous. Joke's on them.

    As an aside to the scientific nit-pickers, yes, I know that the projected fate of the Earth is to be swallowed up as the Sun goes nova. However, there are hints that, as in Moorcock's Dancers at the End of Time, that the people of the Earth have plundered the entire rest of the Universe to sustain their ancestral planet and that only at the end are they left with the dregs. And possibly everyone not inclined to take e.e. cumming's advice about the Universe next door after wearing out the current one. And in the end, what does it matter? Good stories!

  12. Re:Great back when I was a teenager, still great n by Black+Parrot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I re-read his books regularly. I just finished my fifth read of the Lyonesse trilogy a few months ago.

    The reason he's re-readable is because his books aren't about "how the story turns out". They're about atmosphere, imagination, whimsy, and most of all, dialogue. I loved Niven & Pournell's Mote in God's Eye, but when I tried to re-read it I was bored to tears. Not so with Vance's material.

    However, I suspect that that's not for everyone. In fact, I think my own tastes have changed - when I was young, reading was about plot, plot, and plot.

    The Tschai books (collected as Planet of Adventure) are whacking good fun. A bit slow until the protagonist meets Zarfo, half-way through the second book, but then Vance pulls out the stops and makes up for it. I see that I haven't read it since 2001, so it looks like that just went to the top of my list for summer reading.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  13. Read Jack Vance Aloud by Yergle143 · · Score: 2

    His books are so very very well written. And when it comes to colors and places and properly placed latinate adjectives that leave you scrambling for your dictionary, there are few better. And the most important thing to know about Jack Vance is that he recognized the most alien of places is the construct of human culture.
    I can't imagine even one of his books made properly into a movie unless Punctilio becomes trendy.
    To the outsider go pick up any of his books on E-bay, pour yourself a glass of wine by a cozy fire, and let yourself go. How about "The Last Castle" as a start.
    And so funny...