Slashdot Mirror
Judge Orders Google To Comply With FBI's Warrantless NSL Requests
An anonymous reader writes "CNet reports that a U.S. District Court Judge has rejected Google's attempt to fight 19 National Security Letters, which are used by the FBI to gather information on users without a warrant. Quoting: 'The litigation taking place behind closed doors in Illston's courtroom — a closed-to-the-public hearing was held on May 10 — could set new ground rules curbing the FBI's warrantless access to information that Internet and other companies hold on behalf of their users. The FBI issued 192,499 of the demands from 2003 to 2006, and 97 percent of NSLs include a mandatory gag order. It wasn't a complete win for the Justice Department, however: Illston all but invited Google to try again, stressing that the company has only raised broad arguments, not ones "specific to the 19 NSLs at issue." She also reserved judgment on two of the 19 NSLs, saying she wanted the government to "provide further information" prior to making a decision.' This does not affect the Electronic Frontier Foundation's challenge to the constitutionality of the letters in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals."
Putting the Constitution aside a moment ... oh, wait, they've already done that. Carry on citizen.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Looks like the judge doesn't like these things but can't do much about them, at least not in broad strokes.
That itself is curious.
Of course, that these things exist at all is pretty bad, and that the justice department is out of control is even worse.
Then again, not being an American[tm], little I can do about it.
If their concerns are valid, why don't they simply get a warrent?
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
How can the NSL process possibly be construed as anything other than a blatant violation of the Fourth Amendment? It's basic, black-letter law: warrants have to be issued by the judicial branch, not the cops themselves. Are the courts really going to allow the Fourth Amendment to be read out of the Constitution by a meaningless invocation of "national security"?
Or is it?
When the RIAA and MPAA do this, judges say no, when the government does this, they say yes..... They are both the same to me.
So wait, non elected officials are making secret extra-legal requests that they also say we cant talk about 97% of? And they don't even have enough evidence to get a proper warrant for them? And they are targeting innocent until proven guilty American citizens and possibly political adversaries? And the requests will never re unsealed so we may never know if there was mischief at play or legitimate national security risks? And we have a secret closed door tribunal that not even Google can talk about?
I wrote to my representative and this was his response:
"Many of us share great concern that the federal government's powers be limited to those only necessary to protect the security and freedom of all citizens. Unfortunately, the United States is not well-liked by some countries around the world and agents of those nations seek to damage our country."
If Google wishes to hold true to their motto, "Do No Evil", they can start by disobeying these orders. Compliance with unjust authority is evil.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
What is the problem with this? The judge didn't accept it, why not? I am assuming the broad argument was a direct reference to the 4th amendment. Why shouldn't pointing to one of the highest laws of the land be an acceptable argument?
If I were a judge, what would stop me from issuing a letter from the bench admonishing the agencies for issuing NSLs, and telling them to pound sand? Wouldn't it have just as much validity under our Constitutional framework. In fact, nevermind that. I hereby decree, by the authority of Emperor Norton I of the United States (May God rest his soul), that the agency shall pay me a tribute in the form of 4 oz. silver, 0.999 or finer, to be delivered at the Pete's coffee, 2600 Broadway in Redwood City, California, and to be accompanied by the beverage of my choice on our about June 10th, 2013 in the 2nd hour after noon. So be it ordered! So be it done!
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
What are you complaining about? You knew that's what these people do, and yet you keep voting for them... WTF?!
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
NSL's are supposed to be reserved for matters regarding terrorism or homeland security. IIRC, the original PATRIOT Act stated that an NSL must come directly from the AG or FBI director. That's obviously false if there were 190K of them done in a 3 year period. Can any random FBI employee write one of these? That's ridiculous, because one of the fundamental ideas of The Constitution is that cops do NOT get to write their own search warrants.
The gag order provision is also a clear violation of the Right of free speech. The feds search your customer's data and you can't tell ANYONE, including your colleagues, let alone the affected customers? Under penalty of prosecution? Likewise ridiculous.
What if I stated daily that I have not received an NSL. When I receive an NSL, my daily statements would seize. This way I would comply with the NSL, but it was obvious that I have received one.
The recently available former head of the IRS has been pegged as the odds-on favorite to head the FBI's recently affirmed warrantless, wire-tapping public institution!
Democrats for Obama think this is a great idea.
~ Elmer F.U.D.
Sarcasm has its uses.
I love the rsync.net "solution" to this problem, the Warrant Canary:
http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt
Wonderful idea. Sure, we can't tell you if one of these secret letters is given to us, but, until we get one, we can tell you it hasn't come...with signed, date verifiable messages.
Of course, only works for relatively small companies that are not getting requests as a matter of course.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
"Illston Aspires for Higher Judicial Office."
Cause that's where some really embarrassing shit is stored about me.
Sig. Sig. Sputnik
I could argue that it's possible my wife could, at any moment, turn into a Zombie and murder the rest of my family at any moment. This is, in fact, only slightly less likely than my family being killed by Jihadists. So I could continue my argument and say that I need to have a loaded hand gun cocked, loaded and pointed at her temple at all times just in case she turns, I can put her down before she infects the rest of us. My wife would obviously disagree with my reasoning... the chances of me slipping and making a mistake are far more likely. I could even get a little to drunk and angry one night and make a mistake! She'd say. But of course, all her arguing just proves she could be turning right now! I should put her in cuffs as well, just in case. Now she's struggling... I'd better look through all her personal affects to look for evidence of Zombie collusion. And all of this is only, slightly, more unlikely than what the federal government is arguing right now.
... for everything that doesn't really matter.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
The fourth and fifth amendments are perfectly clear, and this so-called judge has just helped the government to pretend that they're not. The PATRIOT act is not a law at all, it is an act of usurpation.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Obama says he's trying to wind down the "war on terrorism" but there wasn't a single word about putting an end to legalized government spying like this. Or the Patriot Act.
Just learned this is called a Warrant Canary.
Does the FBI have a script that generates these things or what? Crazy.
How effective are these horrible intrusions? The Boston bombers were known terrorists and communicated about their actions internationally, yet no one even attempted to approach them and prevent the murders in the least bit.
Can't they just use the access they have and keep the country safe before asking for more access without disclosing their true motivation? Obtaining a warrant for someone on an international watch list who is out to blow themselves up can't really be that hard. Cops get warrants all the time based on how dogs shake their tails.
[Judge] Illston, who is stepping down from her post in July, said another reason for her decision is her desire not to interfere while the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals is reviewing the constitutionality of NSLs in an unrelated case that she also oversaw.
Google, tell the government to STFU. Seriously, you're big enough to get away with it. Tell them to go screw themselves, that you won't comply, and that you're going to blab to everyone everytime you get one of these and publish it for everyone to see. Then do it.
And the idea of yours invading other countries to "liberte" them is hilarious to the rest of the world.
The US is going around the world installing democracy. If it can be proven that democracy can work in places where there were previously repressive regimes, then they will try it in North America.
You know, if Google routed all communications from the US government to be opened by employees of its Antiguan subsidiary, for security reasons, of course, they could be indexed and be searchable (using google.ag).
And archived on Wikileaks, although TPB would be good, too.
--
Pray for Mercy, ask for Justice, experience Law. We're screwed.
Is when they show up with one of the warrantless search letters, you turn over the crap, IF that NSL is deemed to be invalid later, YOUR COMPANY IS LIABLE. SO, cops show up with guns and badgers (yeah, I said badgers), threatening arrest and prosecution if you don't cooperate, you're COMPANY can still have to pay damages if the cops were over reaching.
COPS WON'T PAY. H
The main reason that Stalin isn't proud and supportive today is that Beria choked him with a pillow. Allegedly. But I gather that the gag order rammed into Stalin's mouth may also have a lot to do with his inability to comment.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
A "Free" and "open" society?
What is that cackling laughter I hear in the difference? Oh, it's the future. E.N.J.O.Y.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
There is nt a government on this planet that takes the slightest bit of bit of interrest in the legal aspects of what it wants .if some thig is against the law they reinterperate the law so if they are caughtb they will have got what they want ahead of the cout case most can't afford .and the few who can after years of stalling and mch money spent it will be a hollow victory at best and you all know this and still you do nothing about the geatest threat to you freedom in the end you will all live like junkies never knowing if you will be at home or in jail after you leave your house or even if you don't.well it what you get from apathy and letting others live in slavery .for 80 years the rights of addicts have been owned by the state so you can't object when they take yours.yours with loathing and contempt wilfred satan junkie against crime.
Whenever you hear "In the Interests of National Security" you know it means what is being done violates the Constitution of the United States. You can thank the passage of the National Security and Patriot Acts for the US Government's Xenophobia.