No, the Tesla Model S Doesn't Pollute More Than an SUV

thecarchik writes "In an exhaustive 6,500-word article on the financial website Seeking Alpha, analyst Nathan Weiss lays out a case that the latest Tesla Model S actually has higher effective emissions than most large SUVs of both the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide and smog-producing pollutants like sulfur dioxide. This is absolutely false. Virtually all electric car advocates agree that when toting up the environmental pros and cons of electric cars, it's only fair to include powerplant emissions. When this has been done previously, the numbers have still favored electric cars. The Union of Concerned Scientists, for example, concluded in a 2012 report (PDF), 'Electric vehicles charged on the power grid have lower global warming emissions than the average gasoline-based vehicle sold today.' Working through every one of Weiss' conclusions may show a higher emissions rate than Tesla's published numbers, but in no way does a Model S pollute the amounts even close to an SUV."

Comments

Same as last time

[RustyTheCat]

When the Prius first got popular the same thing was said about it. Was soon proved false.

Re:Same as last time

[catchblue22]

I drive a 2010 Prius. The power is quite acceptable. I actually spun my wheels the other day on wet roads when starting hard from a light. I am able to accelerate safely on freeways, and I can easily cruise at 85 mph if I want (though the fuel economy obviously drops). The other day, I gave the accelerator a kick to get across a changing yellow, and the acceleration was quite good.

The main thing you have to get used to in a Prius is that the engine speed is dependent almost completely on how hard you press the accelerator, and not on how fast the wheels are spinning. This means that you don't get that same increasing engine pitch on accelerating that you do on cars without a continuously variable transmission. This might give some the impression that acceleration isn't taking place, until you look at your speedometer and realize you are going quite fast. I have gotten used to it now, and it seems natural to me.

The main thing that sold me on the Prius, apart from the fuel economy (which has been 50+mpg by the way) is the durability. I spoke with a cab driver in my area who drove his 2008 Prius for 500000 miles without any significant problems...only brakes and similar things. No new battery. No engine troubles. Nothing. He said he would still be driving it if there weren't regulations on the age of taxis in our area.

Re:Kind of a biased group?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you read what you quoted? Do you think skeptics would *disagree* that powerplant emissions should be included?

Disclosure at the end

[Anonymous Coward]

Additional disclosure: Both myself and my firm advise clients on Tesla Motors and have recommended that they sell short or avoid shares of TSLA.

Efficiency

[redwards]

Per kwh, a coal-fired powerplant pollutes less than your average Camry. I'm not sure how significant the average transmission loss is, but powerplants obviously have enormous efficiency advantages over a standard internal combustion engine.

Re:Efficiency

[compro01]

I'm not sure how significant the average transmission loss is

According to the local power company, transmission losses have averaged 9.3% over the last 5 years.

http://www.saskpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2012_saskpower_annual_report.pdf - PDF page 119

Re:Tesla shorts, not Ford investors.

[Synerg1y]

They have a very thorough section here: http://www.teslamotors.com/true-cost-of-ownership including how long you spend at the gas station and tax incentives. I still think for about 70k (their cheapest car seemingly) they may be in more of a premium market kind of like the land rover.

Re:Associations, tribalism

[Walter White]

There are studies that show "conservatives" here in the USA will buy CFL bulbs on their own (if they think) but as soon as you label them "green" or with other labels and slogans that have been associated as belonging to the enemy tribe, they will fuck themselves just to not have anything to do with the opposing tribe.

Ooh, how I would love to see a citation for that one...

http://www.fuqua.duke.edu/news_events/news-releases/rick-larrick-energy-efficient-products/#.UYARyMqcWUN

QED

Re:Let's compare the two

[cplusplus]

Good point. In my area, you can pay a small surcharge to ensure that all the electricity the power company purchases on your behalf comes from renewable resources like wind, solar, and hydro. I pay said surcharge, so my Model S will be eco-magically-delicious.

Re:Kind of a biased group?

[Anonymous Coward]

according to that logic, then we should include the polution levels of the petroleum industry and all of the shipping and security for it into the mix for ICE powered cars.

building a lithium battery doesn't involve middle eastern shieks, russian powergames, or drilling platforms in the most hostile places on the planet.

Re:Facts don't deter FUD

[terjeber]

That is good. For the two billionth time. Sadly, the thing they do not take into consideration is the following: Moving the entire world fleet of gasoline and diesel personal vehicles to electrical (for fun, lets assume it's possible to make the switch entirely pollution free) will have a statistical negligeble effect on the total CO2 emissions, since personal cars emit less than 10%, closer to 5% of the total human-produced CO2, and though a Tesla emits less CO2 than an SUV, it doesn't emit significantly less CO2 than a regular car, so total reduction in CO2 is negligeble and irrelevant.

Talking about what to do with our personal vehicles to reduce CO2 emissions is like talking about how to reduce the number of joggers, runners, athletes and other high-CO2 emitters. It's just dumb. Personal transportation emits some 5-7% of all CO2. Cutting it in half (which will probably not happen with electrical cars outside of places like Norway - all hydro powered) will not produce a reliably measurable drop in CO2 emissions. Any environmentalist or politician who talks about doing something about personal transportation do solve the CO2 problem is a blithering idiot and can safely be ignored.

Re:Same as last time? Well, nope.

[MightyYar]

Batteries - even the old lead acid kind - are recycled as a rule and not as an exception.

Re:They still miss the whole picture

[mevets]

Who would want to drive a hummer? It is a trailer trash Cadillac.
Second, you might want to check your facts. There was an advert-disguised-as-study a few years ago claiming something like this. It was BS.
Third non radioactive rare-earths are actually plentiful. It is like conservatives who aren't particularly conservative. Don't know why, maybe they just like the name.
Ps
A hummer will burn about 1300kg more gasoline per year than a prius. A prius weighs about 1300 kg.