KDE Plasma Can Now Run On Wayland

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KDE Plasma Can Now Run On Wayland

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday June 12, 2013 @04:00AM from the windows-five-percent-spiffier dept.

An anonymous reader writes "With the upcoming KDE 4.11, there's an initial Wayland backend through the KWin manager. The author notes on his blog: 'Once the system is fully started you can just use it. If everything works fine, you should not even notice any difference, though there are still limitations, like only the three mouse buttons of my touchpad are supported ;-)'"

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Beware! by Lunix+Nutcase · 2013-06-12 04:12 · Score: 1

Wayland-Yutani: Building better display servers.
Predicates by TechyImmigrant · 2013-06-12 04:14 · Score: 2

Predicates are great, they let you be right even though you're not.
E.G: "If everything works fine, you should not even notice any difference"
This is true, but it doesn't tell you whether or not you will notice any difference, it just gives you the predicate under which you will not but doesn't walk the walk of telling you it will work fine.

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
1. Re:Predicates by sed+quid+in+infernos · 2013-06-12 04:22 · Score: 2
  
  There's still useful information in that sentence: It's possible Wayland could work as intended, but cause noticable changes in system behavior. This sentence tells us that the expected behavior is no noticable difference. And the sentence also filters out some useless information: of course you'd notice a difference if it doesn't work. That's the trivial case.
2. Re:Predicates by AvitarX · 2013-06-12 04:41 · Score: 1
  
  Which is a shame, because Wayland was supposed to address weird bad behaviors.
  
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  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
3. Re:Predicates by Lunix+Nutcase · 2013-06-12 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  The "weird, bad behaviors" would be due to the experimental backend not Wayland. The dev's point was to simply to temper expectations that there will be bugs and issues in the code.
Three mouse buttons? by unixisc · 2013-06-12 04:26 · Score: 2

That brings to mind some of the old SunOS and Ultrix workstations that we had in college, which had 3 mouse buttons. Somewhat wierd to handle, particularly when using the 4th finger to right click. Subsequent versions replaced the middle button w/ the mouse click of both left & right, but I'm sure that broke plenty of software that used a combination of left-middle or middle-right. Not to mention Ctrl-left-middle or Alt-right-middle or things like that.
TFA - so does KDE 4.10 already run on Wayland? Or will it be KDE 5.x? That thing seems to need Wayland as well - not just Plasma.
1. Re:Three mouse buttons? by crazyaxemaniac · 2013-06-12 04:36 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  TFA - so does KDE 4.10 already run on Wayland? Or will it be KDE 5.x? That thing seems to need Wayland as well - not just Plasma.
  This experimental backend is in KDE 4.11. Martin Gräßlin says that X11 clients communicate with KWin and Kwin renders them to the running wayland compositor, weston. Other than the input limitation mentioned in the summary the other problem is that Kwin cannot yet act as a wayland compositor itself and cannot manage wayland clients. I guess if you launched a wayland client in this environment you would have to have weston manage it for you.
2. Re:Three mouse buttons? by slim · 2013-06-12 04:37 · Score: 2
  
  Eh? I couldn't manage without three mouse buttons in Windows, today. The scroll wheel, of course, doubles as a button.
  Middle-click is "paste" in an Xterm.
3. Re:Three mouse buttons? by Bill_the_Engineer · 2013-06-12 04:59 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Agree. I haven't told my coworker who is from a MacOS (not to be confused with OS X) background about the wheel click since he was apprehensive about "right-clicks". I didn't want blow his mind.
  
  --
  These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
4. Re:Three mouse buttons? by Bearhouse · 2013-06-12 05:24 · Score: 1
  
  Eh? I couldn't manage without three mouse buttons in Windows, today. The scroll wheel, of course, doubles as a button.
  Middle-click is "paste" in an Xterm.
  *strokes beard*
  FTFY ;)
5. Re:Three mouse buttons? by Lunix+Nutcase · 2013-06-12 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  This might be shocking to you but you've been able to use mice with more than one button with Macs for ages.
6. Re:Three mouse buttons? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-12 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  I guess that is why the Mac OS OS X difference was stressed.
7. Re:Three mouse buttons? by Darinbob · 2013-06-12 08:26 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  The three button mouse was essentially the standard for years, it wasn't just Unix, but most desktop systems that allowed mouse input made use of three buttons since those mice were the most common. Before Windows took off, you basically only had 3 button mice or the macintosh with one button.
8. Re:Three mouse buttons? by copponex · 2013-06-12 09:43 · Score: 1
  
  Easy, buddy. Back in the day it was an old joke:
  Fanboi: Name one thing that your PC can do that my Mac can't!!
  Operator: Right-click.
  Today's analog is:
  Fanboi: Name one thing that your Android can do that my iPhone can't!!
  Operator: Run applications without Apple's permission.
9. Re:Three mouse buttons? by YukariHirai · 2013-06-12 16:03 · Score: 1
  
  Except that even in Mac OS 9 it was possible to use a mouse with more than one button.
10. Re:Three mouse buttons? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-13 03:56 · Score: 0
  
  There is a difference between "possible" and "common". While it may have been possible to use a two-button mouse with Mac OS 9, it was more common for its users to use a single-button mouse that came from Apple.
11. Re:Three mouse buttons? by Bill_the_Engineer · 2013-06-13 03:59 · Score: 1
  
  Not a shock but also not relevant to my coworker.
  
  --
  These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
KDE on Wayland by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-12 05:36 · Score: 0

I'm a little confused by this announcement. Last week I was running KDE 4.10 on Wayland/Weston using the Rebecca Black Linux demo disk. It would seem the technology is already in place, unless I'm missing something?
1. Re:KDE on Wayland by Lunix+Nutcase · 2013-06-12 07:27 · Score: 1
  
  This is an experimental Wayland backend for KWin.
2. Re:KDE on Wayland by Plombo · 2013-06-12 14:53 · Score: 2
  
  This is subtly different. In the scenario you describe, KWin was running as an X client using XWayland under Weston. In the KDE Wayland backend, KWin runs as a native Wayland client without the XWayland compatiblity layer.
you should not even notice any difference by manu0601 · 2013-06-12 14:27 · Score: 1

If everything works fine, you should not even notice any difference
What is the point of developing software if it makes no difference?
1. Re:you should not even notice any difference by Plombo · 2013-06-12 14:47 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  What is the point of developing software if it makes no difference?
  The reason that there is no functional difference between this setup and a regular X11 setup is that KWin can't yet run as a Wayland compositor, because this support is a work in progress. The main difference from a technical standpoint is that X11 is not running as the root display server - KWin is running as a Wayland client rather than an X client. Weston, the reference Wayland server implementation, is being used as the system compositor and the root display server.
  When KWin does get support for running as a Wayland compositor, there will be a real difference. Applications that can run as Wayland clients then be able to do so, and X11 clients will be handled using XWayland.
2. Re:you should not even notice any difference by manu0601 · 2013-06-12 16:15 · Score: 0
  
  When KWin does get support for running as a Wayland compositor, there will be a real difference
  In other words, today's change was not worth a news?
3. Re:you should not even notice any difference by Plombo · 2013-06-12 16:34 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Sure it is. KWin can run as a Wayland client instead of an X client now. That's a big deal, and it indicates concrete progress on the transition to full Wayland support in KDE. How is that not newsworthy?