Java 6 EOL'd By Oracle

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Posted by timothy on Thursday June 20, 2013 @08:23AM from the this-too-shall-pass dept.

Tmack writes "Not completely unexpected, Java6 has reached EOL. This tidbit shows up in Oracle's Java6 FAQ page, recommending everyone update to Java7: 'Oracle no longer posts updates of Java SE 6 to its public download sites. All Java 6 releases up to and including 6u45 have been moved to the Java Archive on the Oracle Technology Network, where they will remain available but not receive further updates. Oracle recommends that users migrate to Java 7 in order to continue receiving public updates and security enhancements.' Apple just pushed its update 16 which is Java6u51, likely to be one of their last Java6 updates."

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Hating Oracle by i+kan+reed · 2013-06-20 08:26 · Score: 5, Funny

Hating Oracle just feels right. All the pointless rage we deliver to Microsoft for terrible, greedy business decisions, plus they kill popular open source projects. It's like being young and in love, except the opposite of that.
1. Re:Hating Oracle by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:42 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Oracle still support Java 6 - if you pay through the nose. They just no longer provide free of charge updates to the non-paying public.
  Java is available free of charge. Java 6 is from 2006. Why should any for profit company provide endless free of charge updates for free of charge software?
  Does the Mozilla Foundation still ship free of charge updates for Firefox 2.0?
  Does Apple still provide free of charge updates for Mac OS X 10.5 (and that actually wasn't free of charge)
  Does Adobe still provide free of charge updates for Flashplayer 9 (say, fix the 40,000 security bugs they claim to have found in it)
2. Re:Hating Oracle by JonJ · 2013-06-20 09:12 · Score: 2
  
  Oracle still support Java 6 - if you pay through the nose. They just no longer provide free of charge updates to the non-paying public.
  Or you can rely on Red Hat doing the same support for free: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/08/red_hat_openjdk_6_leadership/ http://www.redhat.com/about/news/press-archive/2013/3/red-hat-reinforces-java-commitment
  OpenJDK though, but still.
  
  --
  -- Linux user #369862
3. Re:Hating Oracle by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 09:20 · Score: 0
  
  OpenJDK is not Oracle Java. They are not the same thing and are not always fully compatible.
4. Re:Hating Oracle by devman · 2013-06-20 09:40 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Since JDK6, Oracle Java is based on OpenJDK. Unless your using one of the specific features oracle tweaks or adds you should be fine.
5. Re:Hating Oracle by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 09:46 · Score: 0
  
  OpenJDK is Linux only, though. It thus will not help the Windows users of Java 6.
6. Re:Hating Oracle by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 09:55 · Score: 0
  
  Many "enterprise" software do use those Oracle-specific features.
7. Re:Hating Oracle by drinkypoo · 2013-06-20 10:46 · Score: 1
  
  Since JDK6, Oracle Java is based on OpenJDK. Unless your using one of the specific features oracle tweaks or adds you should be fine.
  Even minecraft craps itself on openjdk... if you use forge and/or optifine. Both of which are pretty much mandatory.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
8. Re:Hating Oracle by snikulin · 2013-06-20 13:51 · Score: 1
  
  Being old and in hate == big chance of death (stroke, cardiac arrest).
  Learn to love Oracle and live long! /OK, that last bit was a tasteless joke/
9. Re:Hating Oracle by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 16:26 · Score: 0
  
  Even minecraft craps itself on openjdk... if you use forge and/or optifine. Both of which are pretty much mandatory.
  What are you basing this information on? I use Debian as my everyday desktop and Minecraft works perfectly fine with OpenJDK, even heavily modded Minecraft versions. I've played base minecraft, Tekkit, Tekkit Lite, and Feed The Beast, all with Optifine installed. FTB uses Forge, and I think Tekkit Lite did as well.
  This is probably the only thing most people will use Java for anyway, and it works perfectly well.
10. Re:Hating Oracle by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 16:39 · Score: 0
  
  Java 6 is from 2006.
  This is not important at all. What's important is that Java 7 was released on May of 2011 and was not much usable until almost a year later. So developers and enterprises had only about a 1 year to migrate systems. Even though it may sound like eternity, when there are industries still IE6, one year is like nothing.
  Not to mention that several JRE7 pieces has drastically different performance characteristics.
11. Re:Hating Oracle by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 16:44 · Score: 0
  
  Unless you don't care about the (much) higher CPU and RAM usage of the OpenJDK they're mostly interchangeable.
12. Re:Hating Oracle by JonJ · 2013-06-20 17:23 · Score: 1
  
  I made no such claim either.
  
  --
  -- Linux user #369862
13. Re:Hating Oracle by drinkypoo · 2013-06-20 23:57 · Score: 1
  
  What are you basing this information on?
  Personal experience. If I don't run Sun java then minecraft crashes every time if I have forge OR optifine, let alone both.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
14. Re:Hating Oracle by halltk1983 · 2013-06-21 00:39 · Score: 1
  
  Java 7 isn't always compatible with Java 6 apps, either.
  
  --
  Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
15. Re:Hating Oracle by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-21 01:50 · Score: 0
  
  Since JDK6, Oracle Java is based on OpenJDK.
  Since JDK7 it is, not 6.
16. Re:Hating Oracle by Aaden42 · 2013-06-21 03:09 · Score: 1
  
  If "performs faster than a geriatric dog with two broken legs" is considered an enterprise tweak or add, then yes, you are correct.
  OpenJDK is SLOW compared to Oracle Java. Doubly so on non-Intel platforms. It approaches unusable on ARM when doing any kind of image manipulation work (IE building RRD-style graphs).
17. Re:Hating Oracle by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-21 12:24 · Score: 0
  
  Weird. 32bit or 64bit?
  I'm using 32bit Debian with PAE, not enough RAM to justify switching over to 64bit, so I've got the 32bit OpenJDK. I was using the Sun one until it got pulled from the Debian repository due to some licencing change that prevented Debian from providing it. Decided to give OpenJDK a shot before dealing with Oracle and had no problems that I didn't already have with Sun's Java.
  Actually, I did run into one issue, but it's specific to 32bit Java + Minecraft: the 32bit JVM won't allow you to allocate more than 1.5G, even though a 32bit process should be able to address at least 3G on a PAE system. Better still, I found that I couldn't allocate more than 768-1024M in real-world usage because part of that 1.5G was being used by the JVM somewhere, somehow, and allocating too much via -Xmx was making it die. Sorry I'm not more specific here, this is something I dealt with months ago so I don't recall the exact reason for it working the way it did.
  I ran into problems because of this when using high-res texture packs combined with a ton of mods, but it isn't necessarily OpenJDK at fault here. I think it's as much as problem with Minecraft as anything else. The way it deals with textures and objects seems poor, and the game slowly leaks memory until it crashes, especially if you do things like world-hop to/from the Nether or Mystcraft worlds frequently.
  What would happen is it would start fine, run a bit, and depending on the texture pack/mods used and how much memory I allocated, the game would run anywhere from 10 minutes to several hours without problem...then abruptly run out of memory and close. For what it's worth, I solved that problem by switching to different texture pack using 64px textures instead of 256px ones. People using 64bit clients seem to have no problems, though, because the 64bit JVM will happily eat all of your RAM as long as you have it to use.
18. Re:Hating Oracle by drinkypoo · 2013-06-22 00:31 · Score: 1
  
  Must be a 64 bit problem, I'm having it on rapey rabbit or whatever you call this distribution of Ubuntu. I also found that you can't update lwjgl on 64 bit unless you run sun java.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by rsborg · 2013-06-20 08:27 · Score: 1

Why can't they keep at least two major versions simultaneously released? This isn't rocket surgery.
Cutting costs and eventually killing the product.

--
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
1. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:28 · Score: 0
  
  Because you're not lining Ellison's pocket, bum.
2. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by rudy_wayne · 2013-06-20 08:37 · Score: 1
  
  Because you're not lining Ellison's pocket, bum.
  I have Java installed and have never paid Oracle a penny.
3. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:38 · Score: 0
  
  Thatsthejoke.jpg
4. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:46 · Score: 0
  
  Those Hawaiian islands get expensive when you need to own your own airport. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/15/larry-ellison-hawaii-airline_n_2886418.html
5. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by medv4380 · 2013-06-20 08:48 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Do you have any Idea how old Java 6 is? It's not a question of keeping two version active at once. It's about it's age more than anything. Java 6 was released in 2006. It's not like their EOLing it after 2 year. Support has to end some time, and 7 years is longer than I would have kept it.
6. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:56 · Score: 0
  
  A better question is why do you need at least two major versions simultaneously released? It would be a lot easier to catch bugs if you didn't have multiple versions which all work differently against which to test.
  Granted I don't think any of us expect Oracle to test things, let alone catch bugs...
7. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Sique · 2013-06-20 08:58 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I still have sometimes to use tools that were developed for Java 1.3.1 and barely run with Java 1.4.2.
  
  --
  .sig: Sique *sigh*
8. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by _xeno_ · 2013-06-20 09:04 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Do you have any Idea how old Java 6 is?
  Do you have any idea how new Java 7 is? It's just about two years old, but that makes it sound older than in reality, because for the first year it was out Sunacle were very clear that it was still "beta quality" and that developers should stick with Java 6. It wasn't until about a year ago that Java 7 really "rolled out" as the replacement for Java 6.
  I can't remember when IT first allowed Java 7 onto our desktops, but I think it was less than a year ago. Even then, it's still not the "official" version of Java because there's some IT-related software that can't run on Java 7. Not to mention that some of the software I work with also can't run on Java 7 due to JNI incompatibilities. (Man I wish we could ditch that, but I didn't write the component that uses that component, so...)
  In any case, no matter how old it is, Java 7 still isn't quite ready to replace Java 6. Especially under Mac OS X, thanks to the transition between Apple and Oracle supporting Java. Although I don't know who's really to blame for that one, Apple or Oracle, but they can both take the blame as far as I care.
  The point is that I still use Java 6 on a day-to-day basis, and it's not from lack of trying to move to Java 7.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
9. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by ahabswhale · 2013-06-20 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  And you expect them to support that?
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
10. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by JDG1980 · 2013-06-20 09:23 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Do you have any Idea how old Java 6 is?
  Doesn't matter. There are a *lot* of applications that not only require Java 6, but a specific point release of Java 6.
  "Write once, run anywhere" my ass.
11. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by chuckinator · 2013-06-20 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, and you cannot run AT&T SYSIII unix on any modern hardware. I fail to see your problem.
12. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by nine-times · 2013-06-20 09:27 · Score: 1
  
  Yup. That's the problem with using old outdated software that isn't receiving active support. Or at least not proper active support. If your tool is being actively supported and still requires Java 1.3.1, then they're doing something very wrong.
  You know, some people are still running DOS apps from the 90s. That doesn't mean Microsoft is doing something wrong by refusing to support DOS.
  But the bigger issue here: Developers should stop using Java. I don't really object to the language, but the Sun/Oracle platform sucks.
13. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 09:27 · Score: 0
  
  I still have sometimes to use tools that were developed for Java 1.3.1 and barely run with Java 1.4.2.
  Well, I'll put you on the list, but I'm busy stopping every web developer on the face of the planet from using HTML5 and CSS3, for another person who is running some outdated shitware dependent on IE6. You'll just have to wait your turn. :o
14. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by tompaulco · 2013-06-20 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  In my company, we have evaluated Java 7, but unfortunately there are still large issues in Java for us. We are also integrated with the local Java community and a lot of open source projects, and the general consensus seems to be that 7 is not ready for prime time yet. So it is unfortunate that Oracle is ending support for 6 without a suitable replacement.
  
  --
  If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
15. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 09:34 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  By "a *lot* of applications" you mean things like SAP or other Enterprise traps ?
  It takes a bit of work to write Java applications that are version-dependent, it's hardly ever an 'accident'.
16. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 09:41 · Score: 0
  
  If you wrote C code in 2000, it would run today. Python? Python 2 is still supported. Java? Not so much.
  This is a problem.
  2000 wasn't that long ago. 2000 had gigahertz computers.
17. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 09:44 · Score: 0
  
  Well, the problem is that Apple rolled out one last update to Java 6 yesterday. Fortunately, it broke MatLab and apparently a lot of other Swing applications. I guess that's one way to get everyone to update to Java 7.
  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17204465/how-does-java-for-os-x-2013-004-affect-break-swing-applications
18. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 09:50 · Score: 0
  
  Have they fixed the dual stack issue that Java 7 had? (didn't fall back properly to IPv4)
19. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by medv4380 · 2013-06-20 09:50 · Score: 1
  
  I bet you your JNI incompatibilities are more likely due to running 64 bit java, and have nothing to do with Java 7. I could be wrong, but that's normally where the issue is.
20. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 10:15 · Score: 0
  
  Seriously?
  I have code that I wrote 2 years ago that won't compile with a newer version of gcc (they *love* to move things around headers).
21. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by medv4380 · 2013-06-20 10:51 · Score: 1
  
  We're not talking about running. We're talking about support. Java 6 will still run.
22. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 11:24 · Score: 0
  
  Do you have any Idea how old Java 6 is?
  
  It's about as old as Windows XP was in 2008, which is two years after XP's unpopular and not-ready successor (Vista) was released. Imagine what the furor would have been if XP had been EOLed at that point.
23. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Chris+Mattern · 2013-06-20 12:25 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I have Java installed and have never paid Oracle a penny.
  And every time Larry thinks about cutting people like you off from any support or updates whatsoever, he gets a warm feeling where his heart would be if he had one.
24. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by _xeno_ · 2013-06-20 12:27 · Score: 1
  
  Fortunately, it broke MatLab and apparently a lot of other Swing applications.
  Oh fucking hell. What very well might be the last thing keeping us stuck on Java 6 is MATLAB on OS X. I keep on hoping MathWorks will fix it to work with Oracle Java so I can finally move everything over to Java 7.
  IT has been slowly ditching the remaining software that requires Java 6 (either via upgrading or flat-out changing vendors - go IT!), but I think there's one last piece of software that still requires Java 6 on Mac OS X other than MATLAB. I know they fixed it to work with Java 7 under Windows, it's that Mac OS X requirement that's fucking everything up.
  Glad I'm just a developer and not an IT guy for this Java patch.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
25. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Bronster · 2013-06-20 14:23 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Java moto: Write once, fuck you.
26. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 14:45 · Score: 0, Informative
  
  I have never had an issue with minor point released for Java. Of course I am not a dipshit and actually try and use undocumented parts or rely on a version specific bug. You would have to be a special kind of asswipe to do crap like that. Oh, wait a sec, that is the entire Java "enterprise" community. Asshats one and all
27. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by ahabswhale · 2013-06-20 14:52 · Score: 1
  
  You need to work on your trolling skills, bro.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
28. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by lightknight · 2013-06-20 15:05 · Score: 1
  
  Not so much. There are plenty of architectures that have gone the way of the Dodo since 2000, and you'll find writing C code for them very difficult.
  
  --
  I am John Hurt.
29. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 20:47 · Score: 0
  
  Don't blame the language for bad programmers or please provide an example of a normal function that changed behaviors between those releases (really please do so. I hear lots of people complaining about this but have yet to come across it myself or seen any examples).
30. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-21 01:15 · Score: 0
  
  Java 6? You make me laugh. We are still running on Java 4 because of the proprietary software that the manufacturer insists we have to use. Actually, they are finally putting EOL on that software coming August, but their new replacement relies on Java 6. Base on how long they have used Java 4 for their old software, I do not expect them to move to Java 7 any time soon.
31. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by bobaferret · 2013-06-21 01:50 · Score: 1
  
  I maintain around a million lines of Java code and have never had this problem either. A lot of it is refection heavy, gets run on OSX, Windows, and Linux and has thousands of daily users. GUI, Web and Back End. Point release specific? The only time I ever have trouble is when I try to use a newer feature on an older JDK, or I try to compile down with a new feature. Perhaps there's some JNI code out there, but that sort of defeats the purpose most of the time. I couldn't agree more that you have to try to make a java app version specific. I don't do Applets or Webstart, so maybe there's something there.. After some lite Googling I wasn't able to find a specific example either.
32. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-21 01:53 · Score: 0
  
  For example? Anything released after 1989 with a decent C compiler runs most of my modern C code with no modifications. POSIX code would need some help, but if I really needed it I could write a compatibility layer in a few days. The only C99+ feature I find compelling enough to go astray is stdint.h and that's easily replaced in systems where it's not provided. Just compile everything with -std=c89 -Wall -pedantic and you are set.
33. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-21 04:42 · Score: 0
  
  Fuck you, you snot-nosed brat!
  It's not a fucking operating system, it's a programming language! Ending support for working code after 7 years is an atrocity. I can still fire up compilers and interpreters that are likely older than you are.
34. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by The+End+Of+Days · 2013-06-21 05:35 · Score: 0
  
  Imagine if an operating system sold on the majority of personal computers had any basis of comparison to an SDK.
35. Re:Typical Oracle - Enterprise sheds tear by Rich0 · 2013-06-21 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  Do you have any Idea how old Java 6 is? It's not a question of keeping two version active at once. It's about it's age more than anything. Java 6 was released in 2006. It's not like their EOLing it after 2 year. Support has to end some time, and 7 years is longer than I would have kept it.
  And how old is the win32 API? Now ask yourself why there are still companies that target that rather than Java ?
  7 years isn't that long. Last time I checked XP was still on extended support (ie anybody can get security updates for free). Its replacement has been around for almost a decade (it won't be until it has been around for a full decade before XP is EOL).
Grrr by Farmer+Pete · 2013-06-20 08:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

I know why they don't, but I wish they would auto update everyone on 6 to 7. Bugger.
1. Re:Grrr by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 09:32 · Score: 1
  
  Many many Mission critical applications REQUIRE 6 and have yet to be updated by their vendors...
  Xsan admin (needs java6)
  FinalCut Server (client will not work with java 7)
2. Re: Grrr by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 09:40 · Score: 1
  
  For instance Oracle 11g ./irony
3. Re:Grrr by RabidReindeer · 2013-06-20 23:17 · Score: 1
  
  Many many Mission critical applications REQUIRE 6 and have yet to be updated by their vendors...
  Xsan admin (needs java6)
  FinalCut Server (client will not work with java 7)
  I'm hearing a lot of noise about this, and I find it very hard to believe. Java was designed from the very beginning to avoid breakage between releases. It's one of its primary differences from the Microsoft toolchain, where they not only don't support deprecation, they don't even try.
  There were only 2 cases that I know of where Java changed radically enough to even worry about breakage: somewhere around 1.02 and the infamous 1.3 (which Oracle was complicit in keeping from its grave, even though their buyout of Sun was years in the future).
  By setting the compile and code version flags on the compiler, you are supposed to be able to target any major past release of Java you want, and that has always worked for me. The only thing I ever needed to worry about was minor-release specific bugs, and I don't code to exploit compiler bugs, so it was always more of switching to a different minor release if the primary up-to-date minor release had issues.
  Granted, if I did run into problems, there are alternative Java systems, both from IBM and from open-source, but the only time I've ever felt compelled to go that route was a case involving WebSphere, where IBM was exploiting their own JVM.
  So I'm not worried myself about losing Java 6. It's not like a Microsoft compiler where you have to have the identical compiler. I've been running a mix of the 2 systems for some time now and haven't even paid attention to what compiler is on which machine, since the bulk of my code is actually only interested in features no more recent than Java 5.
4. Re:Grrr by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-21 02:26 · Score: 0
  
  I'm hearing a lot of noise about this, and I find it very hard to believe. Java was designed from the very beginning to avoid breakage between releases. It's one of its primary differences from the Microsoft toolchain, where they not only don't support deprecation, they don't even try.
  I think it has something to do with "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I have had issues with manufacturer developing proprietary software that relies on Java 1.4 (they still have 1.4.2_15 for download on their website). This is the same manufacturer who sells $10000+ laptops (to be fair, they are Toughbooks) with Windows XP (has Vista COA label on it). They are still running on IE6, no security hotfixes allowed at all, Java 1.4, and occasionally requires Internet connection. If we want to be green by not printing out 34 pages of report for every unit we run the software on, that Internet is used more often. This is all in the name of having a consistent and tested environment.
But I don't like SPAM by SpaceManFlip · 2013-06-20 08:33 · Score: 2

I don't like Java 7, it feels dirty. I will keep on with 6 for now
Can't wait to hear... by benjfowler · 2013-06-20 08:34 · Score: 1, Funny

... all the intelligent and insightful commentary from the Slashdot peanut gallery about how rubbish Java is.
1. Re:Can't wait to hear... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:38 · Score: 0
  
  Java is great and pays my bills you insensitive clod.
2. Re:Can't wait to hear... by benjfowler · 2013-06-20 08:41 · Score: 2
  
  (That was sarcasm, BTW. It pays my bills too -- and quite nicely. I expect its benefits as a technology to be completely wasted on the 14yos that infest these boards though.)
3. Re:Can't wait to hear... by rudy_wayne · 2013-06-20 08:41 · Score: 1
  
  ... all the intelligent and insightful commentary from the Slashdot peanut gallery about how rubbish Java is.
  The other day, i was looking through my browser history and noticed a link to the download of Java 7 u11 from January of this year. The current version is u21. That 10 updates in 6 months. No software is perfect, but when you have to issue 10 updates in 6 months, that's pretty bad.
4. Re:Can't wait to hear... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:47 · Score: 0
  
  Sorry, the current version is 1.7.0_25 - you are off by a day. Another mess of security updates came out yesterday as v25...
5. Re:Can't wait to hear... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  Java is an overloaded identifier -- Java is a pretty nice language with a more easily parseable grammar than C++, a somewhat messy but fairly usable standard library, a virtual machine with more security holes than extra-lacey swiss cheese, and a bunch of incomprehensible frameworks stacked on top.
  I never really liked Java until I started writing for Android -- which discards the frameworks, fixes much of the standard library, and rewrites the VM.
6. Re:Can't wait to hear... by gl4ss · 2013-06-20 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  Java is an overloaded identifier -- Java is a pretty nice language with a more easily parseable grammar than C++, a somewhat messy but fairly usable standard library, a virtual machine with more security holes than extra-lacey swiss cheese, and a bunch of incomprehensible frameworks stacked on top.
  I never really liked Java until I started writing for Android -- which discards the frameworks, fixes much of the standard library, and rewrites the VM.
  I can see that you didn't write for Sun's idea of mobile java and ui kit too much!
  android is actually sane and pretty standardized across manufacturers..
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
7. Re:Can't wait to hear... by Tailhook · 2013-06-20 09:03 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  but when you have to issue 10 updates in 6 months, that's pretty bad.
  Poppycock.
  I can't remember ever having my Ubuntu LTS servers go a week without security patches appearing, usually the same few bits of software; the kernel, glibc, apache, mysql, etc. Java SE models an entire machine, provides a vast application API and a powerful optimizing compiler on multiple platforms. It's a mighty piece of software and flaws abound. The real problem with Oracle and Java has been the lack of updates. By rights Java 7 SE should be on about update 110 by now. One a week.
  
  --
  Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
8. Re:Can't wait to hear... by JDG1980 · 2013-06-20 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  Java is great and pays my bills you insensitive clod.
  All the hackers in Russia are happy, because Java pays their bills too...
9. Re:Can't wait to hear... by vilanye · 2013-06-20 14:54 · Score: 1
  
  Let me fix that for you.
  
  Java is an overloaded identifier -- Java is a pretty bad, overly verbose language that requires way to much boilerplate with a more easily parseable grammar than C++.
  
  A somewhat messy but fairly usable standard library, but thankfully the Apache Foundation has better libs for Java.
  
  A virtual machine with as many security holes as any other runtime, but has first class runtime native code compilation, and a bunch of incomprehensible frameworks stacked on top.
  
  It also supports multiple languages(especially Java 7) that are superior to Java in every way: Clojure(lisp), Scala(Haskell and OCaml had a child), Ruby-and stays pretty much up to date and matches features except for the few that Java can't deal with(continuations, gain and drop privileges at will), and sort of Python, but is lagging far, far behind mainline Python. There are also laughably bad languages for the JVM, like Groovy(and PHP allegedly, but nothing cna save that turd), but that is hardly the fault of the JVM.
  
  I never really liked Java until I started writing for Android -- which is not Java, but I love non-sequiters.
It was already EOLed in Feb by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:39 · Score: 1

Java 6 was already EOLed in feb 2013. u43 was supposed to be the last update. They keep updating it because nobody moved off of it, and apparently somone still has enough pull to get them to keep writing patches for it. This is the second (possibly third) time they've tried to EOL Java 6.
racle no longer posts updates of Java SE 6... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:39 · Score: 0

... nore for Java 7
Great by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:45 · Score: 1

Java SE 6 was released six and a half years ago. Prior to then Sun had a major release about every two years. The platform stalled with version 6 and it needs a kick in the ass.
There is some craptastic Java 6 software in the world that won't run correctly in Java SE 7. The writing is on the wall for that stuff. People don't tolerate neglect; they just go find alternatives.
1. Re:Great by DarkAce911 · 2013-06-20 08:50 · Score: 1
  
  How about Kronos, the big timekeeping software? I know several companies that are using a current version of it and can't move pass 6.24. Did I mention they have it installed on a large number of their desktops?
2. Re:Great by Tailhook · 2013-06-20 09:17 · Score: 1
  
  Kronos
  Never heard of it. There are probably a dozen alternatives to Kronos and their time and attendance software. If a company with 3,200 employees is so incompetent that they can't get their software ported to Java SE 7 then they deserve to be abandoned by their customers. If a licensee can't be bothered to move to the new runtime for supposedly critical software then they have bigger problems and they should go on neglecting stuff until they get pwned and grownups take over.
  No sympathy. Grow up and deal.
  
  --
  Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
3. Re:Great by ahabswhale · 2013-06-20 09:25 · Score: 2
  
  They should let Kronos know that it's unacceptable that they don't update their software to be compatible with the latest JVMs. If enough people bitch, they'll fix it.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
4. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 10:26 · Score: 1
  
  You should probably get around some then. At least two companies I've consulted or worked for have used the software. That doesn't excuse the vendor from being able (or not being able) to support JVM7, but it also doesn't warrant any of your Internet tough guy attitude. Just because you're ignorant doesn't mean you get to insult others.
  My current company is in the process of moving from Kronos to ADP. Did you know you can buy your Kronos clock once and keep it? Did you know you have to rent an ADP clock for the entire life of the software? Its not like the other vendors are Angels and Kronos is some Demon.
5. Re:Great by znrt · 2013-06-20 11:10 · Score: 2
  
  People don't tolerate neglect; they just go find alternatives.
  some even might go find alternatives to java altogether ... oh wait. not really, because most people tends not to look for alternatives at all, and actually tolerates shitloads of bullshit. that's why companies like oracle exist.
6. Re:Great by mathew42 · 2013-06-20 23:31 · Score: 1
  
  If a company with 3,200 employees is so incompetent that they can't get their software ported to Java SE 7 then they deserve to be abandoned by their customers.
  Should companies running 10 year old software that has reached end of support several years ago, expect the software to be updated to support the latest Java version? Upgrading time and attendance software (like most enterprise software) is non-trivial, since it affects when people are scheduled to work and how people are paid and people tend to become irate when they aren't paid correctly.
  
  If a licensee can't be bothered to move to the new runtime for supposedly critical software then they have bigger problems and they should go on neglecting stuff until they get pwned and grownups take over
  It is not simply a matter of moving to a new runtime, as software releases are often tested against specific Java versions (or at best sets). A vendor doesn't want the risk that their software breaks as an unintended consequence of a change to fix a bug.
  Nobody, except the foolish want to be on the bleeding edge with mission critical software and many businesses, workforce scheduling is mission critical.
7. Re:Great by DarkAce911 · 2013-06-21 02:57 · Score: 1
  
  Set your sights a little higher, just one of the companies has 45K employees. They would love to update the software, but they have to wait till the Vendor updates the program. There are not a lot of cheap options for something like this at the Enterprise level.
If it's so bad... Fork It by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 08:55 · Score: 0

Java 6 is GPL. Oracle can't force Java 7 on anybody.
MySQL is to MariaDB as Java is to ???
1. Re:If it's so bad... Fork It by kthreadd · 2013-06-20 09:22 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Perl
EOL Oracle by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 09:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

I wish Oracle were end of lifed.
Not a big deal... by BenSchuarmer · 2013-06-20 09:21 · Score: 5, Insightful

what bugs me is that they keep trying to get me to install the Ask toolbar every time I update Java 7.
1. Re:Not a big deal... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 10:11 · Score: 1
  
  What bugs me, is this isn't news. That notice has been on the website for at least a month - even with the exact same update number "6u45". They actually started that notice with "6u41" as far as I remember, and its been EOL'ed since February. Yet new releases have been released to the non-paying public because of 0-day exploits.
  Maybe this time they mean it though?
2. Re:Not a big deal... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 14:43 · Score: 1
  
  Stop using the "Online" install. Stop using java.com. Just download the official installations from java.oracle.com (labelled "offline") and you will never see any ads.
Doesn't Android need JDK 6? by goruka · 2013-06-20 09:24 · Score: 1

I remember I couldn't make an APK package properly without JDK jarsigner from Java 6 (Java 7 one would not work).
1. Re:Doesn't Android need JDK 6? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-21 04:50 · Score: 0
  
  shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
  shh.
  No.
I have an idea by slashmydots · 2013-06-20 09:44 · Score: 3, Interesting

After at least 3 years of perpetually the worst thing to happen to browser security ever, maybe they should just eliminate their entire web plugin. I mean for God's sake, I just saw someone's credit union use a java app for logging into online banking. I've never heard of a bank demanding that its users purposely ruin the security on their computer in order to access online banking. I heard v7r25 that was released days ago already has critical flaws. I think technically if you had Java for the last 3 years, there wasn't one moment in time that you were actually without a gigantic java-based exploit security flaw.
Slashdot late to the party by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 10:07 · Score: 0

I know this is Slashdot and all, but it reached EOL at the end of February 2013.
Ubuntu by msobkow · 2013-06-20 10:44 · Score: 1

Does this mean Ubuntu will make the use of JDK 7 automatic? It's easy enough to make it your default instead of 6, but the default for 12.04 is still JDK 6. It's not nice to make the default an EOL product.

--
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Java 7 and prime time by Arkham · 2013-06-20 10:52 · Score: 4, Interesting

People who don't think java7 is ready are smoking crack. It's been production ready for a long time.. Works on Linux, works on OSX, works on Windows. I have used it on 20M transaction/day apps and had it run for months with no issues.. Java gets a bad name because of the browser plugin. Let's EOL that for all versions of java. I like java on the server. I like it for writing Android apps. I do NOT like it in the browser, and neither does anyone else with any interest in security.

--
- Vincit qui patitur.
1. Re:Java 7 and prime time by Chris+Mattern · 2013-06-20 12:26 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  The problem isn't that Java 7 isn't production ready. The problem is the large amount of production that isn't Java 7 ready.
2. Re:Java 7 and prime time by skastrik · 2013-06-20 20:10 · Score: 1
  
  I updated parts of our production to make it Java 7 ready earlier this year. Then came Java 7u21 in April that started to break things with its changes to security. We could to use slightly older versions, but Java -really- wants us to update to the most recent version.
  All in all, Java isn't very enterprise friendly for us. We have some systems that rely on applets and browser plugins working correctly, there is no way around that. As far as I see it, for security reasons we would like to block applets by default, but we would also like to be able to white-list a specific set of servers from which applets are accepted. Any solution for this? We mostly use IE.
3. Re:Java 7 and prime time by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-21 00:54 · Score: 0
  
  There is in IE. Go into Manage Add-Ons. Right click on the plugin (not the SSV helper, or any of the other bullshit) and select More Info. You probably have it set to allow *. Change that.
  Of course this only manages Applets that are embedded as 'object'. If the applet is embedded as an 'applet' then this will not prevent it from loading. In fact disabling Java here will not block applet/applet's at all.
4. Re:Java 7 and prime time by Teckla · 2013-06-21 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  People who don't think java7 is ready are smoking crack. It's been production ready for a long time.. Works on Linux, works on OSX, works on Windows.
  Java 7 doesn't work on OS X 10.6.x (Snow Leopard).
No, sometimes Java 6 (and 7) won't run now :-( by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · 2013-06-20 11:35 · Score: 4, Informative

Java 6 will still run.
Actually, no, sometimes it won't. I have personally spent most of today fielding support problems because the "improvements" in Java applet security in 6u51 (mainly for Apple users) and 7u25 have meant precisely that systems that were working just fine yesterday are not working today.
It's like people think "Set build option X and it'll work again" or "You need to sign it with magical certification Y at time Z now" is a viable response. In reality, many Java applets are used other than as part of a maintained public web site, and once deployed maybe they can't easily be updated. They might be part of a secure intranet where any changes need expensive regulatory approvals to be redone. They might be part of a user interface embedded in network-accessible hardware. It might just be a useful demonstration on an academic's web site that they wrote ten years ago but don't maintain. In the last 48 hours, these and many other cases all broke.

--
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
1. Re:No, sometimes Java 6 (and 7) won't run now :-( by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 18:21 · Score: 0
  
  These should have been contemplated and dealt with early on. Use the right tool for the job.
  Unfortunately we rarely do that.
2. Re:No, sometimes Java 6 (and 7) won't run now :-( by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · 2013-06-20 19:38 · Score: 1
  
  The trouble is, most software wasn't first written in the past couple of years, with whatever super-shiny tools we'd choose if we were starting from scratch today.
  Not so many years ago, things like HTML5 and CSS3 didn't exist, a canvas was something you painted on with a brush, JavaScript was too slow to use for much, SVG sounded like the successor to a computer game involving aliens and predators, and if you wanted any serious interaction in your web site you used either Flash or Java applets. And so we did, because we had jobs to do, and at the time they were the best tools to help us do it.
  The idea that to provide a Java applet you'd first have to pay hundreds of dollars to a CA and prove your real life identity or your users would get lots scary warnings recommending not to run your code or simply not be able to run your code at all would have sounded as crazy as, frankly, it is. Imagine what web development would look like today if you couldn't share a JavaScript snippet or CSS3 trick on GitHub without doing that!
  
  --
  If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
3. Re:No, sometimes Java 6 (and 7) won't run now :-( by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 19:55 · Score: 1
  
  I have personally spent most of today fielding support problems because the "improvements" in Java applet security in 6u51 (mainly for Apple users) and 7u25 have meant precisely that systems that were working just fine yesterday are not working today.
  ... They might be part of a secure intranet where any changes need expensive regulatory approvals to be redone.
  You have a secure intranet where you can't easily make changes to your applet, but yet you allow Java auto-updates to roll out untested?
  And you're actually saying you would have preferred if Oracle hadn't released Java updates, because then it wouldn't have broken any old applets you have deployed.
4. Re:No, sometimes Java 6 (and 7) won't run now :-( by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · 2013-06-20 22:46 · Score: 2
  
  You have a secure intranet where you can't easily make changes to your applet, but yet you allow Java auto-updates to roll out untested?
  No, obviously not. The point is that the changes on the client side (which you normally do want for security reasons) can in this case necessitate changes on the server side (which you may not be able to update without expensive regulatory hurdles).
  
  And you're actually saying you would have preferred if Oracle hadn't released Java updates, because then it wouldn't have broken any old applets you have deployed.
  No, I would have preferred that Oracle not change the rules about how signing works in ways that break backward compatibility. For example, you can't just magically update a Java applet embedded in hardware you already sold so it's signed in some way Oracle consider worthy of being run in your browser this week.
  
  --
  If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Only 5 updates by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 11:59 · Score: 0

Oracle releases only odd-numbered updates.
Our in house apps barely stabilize @ 6 by gelfling · 2013-06-20 12:12 · Score: 1

We've just gotten to 6 and nothing works reliably on 7 at all. You wind up running unsupported at your own peril. Current course and speed we'll be off 6 around 2015
1. Re:Our in house apps barely stabilize @ 6 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 13:33 · Score: 0
  
  sounds like you work in one miserable ass place
2. Re:Our in house apps barely stabilize @ 6 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 15:34 · Score: 0
  
  Duh, they use Java.
What? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 12:32 · Score: 0

Wait, people still use Java?
I still use Java 6 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 13:44 · Score: 0

i must be one of the few people who still uses Java 6. I never did upgrade the runtime to Java 7 because I am so lazy. lol
Work by eWarz · 2013-06-20 17:52 · Score: 0

We've removed java on 99% of our machines. It's generally not needed anymore except for specialized apps, and most of our users don't use java apps. Java on Windows = PITA. Admin access, attempts to install the ask toolbar, etc made it too expensive to maintain.
1. Re:Work by prionic6 · 2013-06-20 18:45 · Score: 1
  
  Any desktop applications still using java should probably stop assuming an installed JVM and bundle one. Has a few drawbacks, obviously.
Did you mean by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-20 19:50 · Score: 0

Java has reached EOL?
Solution by xded · 2013-06-20 21:16 · Score: 2

http://superuser.com/questions/549028/how-can-i-prevent-ask-com-toolbar-from-being-installed-every-time-java-is-update/562869#562869
Write once, debug everywhere by Anonymous Coward · 2013-06-21 04:59 · Score: 0

Java needs a new anti-slogan, one that conveys "write once, debug on every shipping JVM build", but just as catchy as "write once, debug everywhere".
- T
So it's time to discard those old crap-apps. by boorack · 2013-06-21 20:55 · Score: 1

So it's time to fix it to be Java 7 ready. Pretty good distrinction between well written apps and crapware is number of difficulties when porting to Java 7. Most of my apps just worked, yet I always avoided (most of) crapola "enterprise" technologies like EJB etc. Switch to Java 7 is pretty good point to decide which of your apps should be depreciated (or undergo severe overhaul) and which are fit enough to still be maintained. It's called evolution.
It's also a good occasion to get rid of super-heavy "enterprise" crap and switch to lightweight frameworks (eg. java portal -> spring, play, clojure etc.). I think Oracle is shooting itself in a foot here as they make gobs of money from selling super-heavy "enterprise" legacy crap. This business might be in jeopardy if people realize that quite often rewriting part of system in lightweight, testable technologies is cheaper than maitaining legacy apps using some heavyweight "consultantware" solution.