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NYC Tech Sector Growing Faster Than City Can Keep Up
BioTitan writes "New York City's plans to build its tech sector have turned out like a party gone wrong — someone inviting 100 people expecting 10 to show up, but finding that not only did everyone come, but they also brought their friends. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg wants to build NYC into the second Silicon Valley. Dedicated spaces complete with 3-D printers, workshops, and computers with design software are being built — with the Brooklyn Navy Yard leading the way — yet there is far from enough space to meet demand. Tucker Reed, president of the Downtown Brooklyn Partnership, said, 'Despite the presence of a considerable number of commercial buildings in downtown Brooklyn, longer term leases have tied up much of the current space over the next five years.'"
It's like Facebook, for cats!
Seriously, it would have been less blatant if you just told Bloomberg that the whole recession hoax was just created to push wages down and that there isn't really a lack of money waiting for investment. Now look what you've done.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Extra! Extra! Read all about it! High real estate prices in New York City?
wants to work or live in NYC?
Fuck Bloomberg, and fuck NYC. I'm going back to 4chan.
No cutting edge tech person wants to work in Brooklyn when they can work in Manhattan.
Dedicated spaces complete with 3-D printers, workshops, and computers with design software are being built.
So they are building computers and not only that, they are building computers with design software inside.
Unless your tech company is providing services which require a physical presence, what's the appeal of NYC? Real estate prices alone are a very compelling reason to locate elsewhere.
Why does the mayor of the city worry about 3d printers? How is a municipal government remotely qualified to try and operate like that kind of business? Unless... its just a bid to create yet another city organization. (Remember, these are the same people who filled up their personal vehicles at the "first responders" stations after the hurricane.)
With respect to the startup companies he's looking to bring in, his job should be to get out of their way - fast-track all the normal paperwork, exempt them from Mafia-style union rules ("no, you can't carry that server up from the loading dock, that's a union job, and the guy isn't here until Friday"), and maybe give them a tax break or two while they're in startup mode. Then he can sit back and rake in the tax dollars on the back end and from the (newly) rich employees.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
NYC - soon to be leading the world in 3d printed tschtockes techs
stupid?
In a day and age fairly decent telecommuting options are available, it appears that the IT industry is heading in exactly the opposite direction, towards physical concentration into technological hubs in a misguided attempt to recreate Silicon Valley.
Am I the only one who finds this ridiculous?
...would set up shop in a locality that is designed to increase your cash burn rate by orders of magnitude?
What does that say about the management?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I hate to see politicians toss this phrase around. Silicon Valley is not just a place with a bunch of nerds working in an internet factory, its an ecosystem of cultural diversity built around technology, art and science. I understand everyone wants a slice of the Tech pie, but New Yorks industry centers on finance. everything im looking at is "large financial firm", none of the startups or 3d printers in tfs. Whining about long term leases making it difficult for your city to be next->siliconvalley() is lik whining about the space under your desk being so insufficient as to preclude you from rewriting the linux kernel.
Good people go to bed earlier.
I may not be fortunate enough to own a big tech company myself, but if I did? NYC would probably be one of the LAST places on my list where I'd consider an expansion or a move.
Real estate is insane, obviously ... but you're also dealing with the transportation headaches. Where I work now, we already have some big problems with that, and we don't have NYC's density. (Everyone's pushed and prodded to use public transportation since cars are impractical with high daily parking costs, traffic jams, etc.) But with public transportation, you're really limited in what you can carry. Any kind of office outing requires renting an expensive bus to shuttle everyone to or from the event, too. And if the subway has a problem, you may as well shut the place down until they get things fixed. Additionally, your employees who might otherwise be happy to work late or odd hours to finish some project are constrained by the hours the bus or metro runs. So you lose some potential productivity there too.
You also have to figure that in many ways, the tech market there is saturated. It's not like all the Wall Street traders don't have any contacts to work with to provide their network bandwidth or computer maintenance. If you move out to NYC, it sounds to me like a tough, uphill battle if you want to establish yourself as a contender?
If the physical presence makes no difference (software development, for example) -- then you want the CHEAPEST place you can build an office and still be able to hire good talent. I think what many companies would find if they actually thought "outside the box" a bit, is that there's a LOT of great computer talent in the small, rural communities. Kids growing up there don't have as much to do, so many gravitate towards the home computer and the internet, and spend a lot of time with it. The technical minded who don't envision themselves working the family farm like their parents did constitute a good hiring pool that's neglected.
The dot-com bubble, at least, was understandable: a "gold rush" in a new frontier. But what is everyone chasing now? Is it a bubble for its own sake? Or is it a legitimate unleashing of capital pent up from the 2008 global financial crisis?
I'm guessing the former. From xconomy.com (emphasis added):
The nearest I can tell, these Brooklyn startups are not serving Wall Street or HFT, where it is known there is money. Honestly, I couldn't even find a list of Brooklyn startups.
Mod this shit up.
There's also quality of life factors to consider: big cities are great for the young and accomodating ("Sure I can work through the weekend."), but as for the rest of us schlubs, there are other things to keep in mind, like family, and life outside the office. Basically the best bits of your workforce have matured to the point where having living in a cramped metropolitan area - to compete ferociously for seats on the metro, housing, parking spaces, schools - doesn't have quite the same, ah, aura, to it that it may have once had when career was the only thing. And it doesn't have to be this way, it really doesn't: this is a technological problem with a technological solution.
But don't let me convince you, then Bumfuck would be overrun with some _real_ assholes...
There is a lot of empty space occupied by banks which is not used. Half of the floors in the investment bank buildings are literally empty. And this is prime real estate -- midtown or even right down town Manhattan. If they didn't get the huge subsidy they got, they'd be forced to consolidate the floors and rent out the half of the floors in those buildings. As it stands, those prime buildings are acting as storage space for empty desks while small starts ups rent residential apartments as their places of business.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
While some of these points are not without merits: (0) what exactly are you proposing to carry that public transit would interfere with? big fat server racks? (1) "constrained by the hours the metro runs" it runs ALL NIGHT - thank you - they're quite proud of it, though it makes maintenance obnoxious - and moreover for historical reasons there are like 3 ALMOST COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT subway SYSTEMS (not just lines, systems, IRT BMT IND) so if one is down there's probably a backup(2) office outing: just tell everyone to hop on the subway, 80%+ of them will have an unlimited pass anyway, and the rest you can let expense it if you really want (3) I'm not sure that the hiring pool dynamics work exactly like you imagine; the big tech hubs support businesses of the sort where you say "I am in a high-margin business and I can make a lot of money per employee; I can afford to pay them lots and I am constrained by my ability to find and attract large numbers of skilled people and to grow the business much bigger". If your business isn't like that it's another matter and sure, go for cheap programmers, have fun, I won't be working there :D
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
I get unsolicated calls and linked in messages from tons of startups and companies in NY practically begging for people. I live in South Jersery so a 3+ hour commute and the though of ever stepping foot in the nanny city of NYC sends shiviers down my spine, plus I have no wish to be double taxed anyway... I could care less that they are offering 50-70% more than what I make now nothing could ever offset the hassle and inconvience of working in NYC. If I was younger and single maybe but with a family and all of us abhoring a crowded city no thanks.
Then again, we're not morons like Herr Bloomberg who can swing our vast wealth and personal opinions around like a bag full of shit
But with public transportation, you're really limited in what you can carry. Any kind of office outing requires renting an expensive bus to shuttle everyone to or from the event, too. And if the subway has a problem, you may as well shut the place down until they get things fixed. Additionally, your employees who might otherwise be happy to work late or odd hours to finish some project are constrained by the hours the bus or metro runs. So you lose some potential productivity there too.
Or you could have to drive, only to find that some idiot cut off some other idiot and caused a massive accident that has the expressway backed up for miles, and you have to wait around for hours until they clear the accident. Constrained by the hours the bus or metro runs? Do you have any idea how many public transportation options there are in NYC? There are 24 subway lines that run all night. There's the Metro North, Long Island Railroad, New Jersey PATH trains, New Jersey Light Rail, and Amtrak if you don't like the subway. There are scores and scores of bus lines, dozens of express buses from Staten Island and the like, and those are just the MTA buses; and they run all night. There's Greyhound, Trailways, and about 30 other lines that go into Port Authority on 42nd. There are ferries and water taxis. There are yellow cabs, car services, gypsy cabs, and peddle-cabs. There's a freaking gondola if you live on Roosevelt Island. Or you could rent a bike with CitiBike or ride your own around the extensive network of protected bike lanes.
In short, transportation without owning a car is not even remotely a problem in this town. It's also why you want to locate your startup here instead of somewhere else where the options are limited.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Another poster pointed out that access to a robust talent pool is a key reason why you'd want to locate a startup in NYC. There is another reason, too. It's not just the tech talent pool that factors into the success of your venture, it's the talent pool in other, closely related industries like design. In New York there's a lot of cross-over that leads to surprising and creative solutions. In every discipline you have the best professionals in the world pushing the envelope, and that both drives and inspires you beyond what you'd be capable of in a sparser, thinner environment. New York has an energy that I have never felt in any other world city, not in Paris, not in Tokyo, not in Shanghai.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Sounds more like a "hype" sector. 3D printing, really?
Are flying cars available yet? 'cause I ain't driving thru that shit and ain't the subway or walking type. lus it just adds to economic success, making asses who wanna outlaw pop look good.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
If the physical presence makes no difference (software development, for example) -- then you want the CHEAPEST place you can build an office and still be able to hire good talent. I think what many companies would find if they actually thought "outside the box" a bit, is that there's a LOT of great computer talent in the small, rural communities. Kids growing up there don't have as much to do, so many gravitate towards the home computer and the internet, and spend a lot of time with it. The technical minded who don't envision themselves working the family farm like their parents did constitute a good hiring pool that's neglected.
If a place is cheap is because nobody will like to to stay or have a business in that place most of the time. If you are building a factory with the working turns and an internal dining room and is so big that you have a private railway inside is a thing. If you are a tech company and your employees can't fill a 10 m bus and it's possible that you have to ask flex hours it's another thing.
Having a choice between herding goats and making tech support by phone I'll prefer herding goats. You can always butcher a obxonious goat.
As to the recession, what part of it was a hoax? The banks and investment firms failing? The incredibly bad decisions or ridiculous leverage? The substantial drop in house prices? The poorly thought out policy decisions that dug the hole deeper?
My take is that wages were going down even if that recession never happened. It's supply and demand. There's too much supply of labor and not enough demand for it.
that there isn't really a lack of money waiting for investment
It's waiting for opportunities like Bloomberg's or to avoid some of the crazy uncertainty of the past few years (for example, some of the costs of hiring people). That's my take.
I may not be fortunate enough to own a big tech company myself, but if I did? NYC would probably be one of the LAST places on my list where I'd consider an expansion or a move.
Real estate is insane, obviously ... but you're also dealing with the transportation headaches. Where I work now, we already have some big problems with that, and we don't have NYC's density. (Everyone's pushed and prodded to use public transportation since cars are impractical with high daily parking costs, traffic jams, etc.) But with public transportation, you're really limited in what you can carry. Any kind of office outing requires renting an expensive bus to shuttle everyone to or from the event, too. And if the subway has a problem, you may as well shut the place down until they get things fixed. Additionally, your employees who might otherwise be happy to work late or odd hours to finish some project are constrained by the hours the bus or metro runs. So you lose some potential productivity there too.
You pretty obviously don't live in NYC...
Transit runs 24 hours a day 365 days a year, any time they do maintenance there are alternatives routes, if there's no nearby train they will set up shuttle service, and there's an extensive bus network too. Beyond that, the infrastructure for taxis and cars for hire is better than anywhere in the world that I've been. This place does NOT shut down due to transit issues. Even after Sandy came by and completely flooded a bunch of tunnels, service got restored quickly to all the other lines. There was no power in lover Manhattan for weeks, but I could still take the train to work in Queens without problems.
You also have to figure that in many ways, the tech market there is saturated. It's not like all the Wall Street traders don't have any contacts to work with to provide their network bandwidth or computer maintenance. If you move out to NYC, it sounds to me like a tough, uphill battle if you want to establish yourself as a contender?
I'd say that's true anywhere. NYC is pretty unforgiving of mediocrity, so I imagine you'll go out of business faster here if your company sucks, but if you start a sucky business elsewhere it'd just be postponing the inevitable. And who knows? Your sucky business might be made more awesome by the talent pool here and the massive amount of potential clients within walking distance. Sure, maybe Wall Street isn't going to be the place to go if you're a network provider, but pretty much every other business in the city is fair game, and there are A LOT.
If the physical presence makes no difference (software development, for example) -- then you want the CHEAPEST place you can build an office and still be able to hire good talent. I think what many companies would find if they actually thought "outside the box" a bit, is that there's a LOT of great computer talent in the small, rural communities. Kids growing up there don't have as much to do, so many gravitate towards the home computer and the internet, and spend a lot of time with it. The technical minded who don't envision themselves working the family farm like their parents did constitute a good hiring pool that's neglected.
If that's your company's deal, go for it. NYC is filled with young motivated talented charismatic individuals fueled on dreams and starbucks, all fighting to make their mark. Rural communities, from the way you describe them, have a few talented people that would really like to get out of their rural communities... Probably wishing to move to a place like NYC.
I can't speak to the experience of living in NYC as well as you, having never tried it. I've visited and been fairly impressed, at least with everything other than the century or so of grime on every building.
That said, there's a lot to be said for those of us living in the hinterlands (also known as "places beyond the Hudson"). I'm here in Upstate South Carolina, which is noticeably different from Upstate New York, which does not begin at Poughkeepsie! The labor rates are certainly cheaper than in NYC or surrounding areas, but then, so is the cost of living. The lovely three-bedroom split-level house on two acres with a backyard pool that I own here would easily have cost well over 10 times what I spent on it, had I bought in or around NYC. Yes, we have our drawbacks: there's nearly no public transportation here, the arts scene while vibrant is still extremely small, and we have to travel long distances to see most great live entertainment (musicals, opera, what-have-you). Still, to wake up in the morning and see a family of deer slowly wending their way across my front lawn, while munching on the shrubbery that I've been too lazy to prune anyway, more than makes up for it.
Allegedly real newspaper headline from 1998:
Man Struck by Lightning Faces Battery Charge
If your business isn't like that it's another matter and sure, go for cheap programmers, have fun, I won't be working there :D
I find where you want to work is irrelevant since there are more IT workers than just you.
What makes NYC special is its history and ethnic diversity. There is an energy there which you don't find anywhere else.
But if you turn it into the "next silicon valley" a lot of that gets destroyed. In very short order it becomes a very expensive place to live. The ethnic and multicultural diversity goes away as those people move out because they can't afford to live there.
I'm sure a gazillionaire like Bloomberg could care less.
Toledo Ohio is located on the southern coast of Lake Erie and sits on the crossroads of America, I75 and I80/I90.
The Toledo Museum of Art houses a world famous collection of rare works and has regular loan agreements with many museums around the world. The Toledo Zoo has a varied and interesting collection of exotic animals as well as a rich architectural history dating back to the Works Progress Administration of 1939.
We've got very low cost real estate and median household income sits at an incredibly low $32,000, enabling you to hire all the labor you want.
By contrast, NYC's median household income is a much more expensive $50,000.
What's the appeal? -- you need to RTFA
You need to read the fine article. The locations in Brooklyn are subsidized, both through actual rent subsidy, and temporary tax exemptions being extended to tech companies: NYC wants these businesses moving in, and they want it in a rather large way, since they don't see bodegas, taxi companies, or a lot of other non-tech businesses as being a growth industry for increasing the tax base.
Without a huge investment in a redevelopment effort to knock down buildings and grow things up, about the only thing they can do is try to increase tax revenue by incentivizing higher income businesses to locate in the area -- and right now, that means tech companies.
The article specifically complains about these types of companies being preferentially subsidized.
About the only things worse that NYC could be doing to itself right now, besides reducing the caffeine intake for software engineers by limiting cup sizes, I mean, would be to be extending these subsidies to the Wall Street folks instead, or passing something like California's Prop 13, and having it apply to non-residential, non-parking structure commercial properties, as it does in California right now (thank you, Kaiser Family Trust -- NOT). There's a reason that San Francisco has built up huge numbers of un-rented high value per square foot commercial properties, and is knocking down older buildings an parking structures everywhere they think they can get away with it.
TFA doesn't even mention 3D Printers.. Although it is true that Makerbot and Shapeways are based in NYC, and there are multitudes of places to go play with a 3D printer if you so desire.
"...yet there is far from enough space to meet demand."
You have people literally renting out what the rest of the country would call a closet for $1000/month(community bathroom is down the hall on your left, no masturbating please) in NYC, and Mayor Asshat-in-Charge wants to bring even more there in droves.
Glad to see you got your fucking priorities straight there Bloomberg. I mean, we wouldn't want to bother you while you fight to ban every receptacle capable of holding more than 16 fluid ounces within a 10-mile radius. Fuck trying to see how and where people might be able to live better than a cockroach, we've got real issues here.
After the right people had maximized their profit taking but before they had to face the music for their misdeeds
Actually the second "Silicon Valley" is Boulder Colorado. NYC just wishes they looked this good. Anyone who goes on about the "network effect" has clearly never used the internet, NYC's real estate market is a joke heard round the world, and in terms of business continuity is far more statistically likely to suffer disruption than just about anywhere else in the country. This is before you factor in things like the cost of living, air quality and access to outdoor activities. All in all the only reason to locate your business in NYC is the tax incentives, and you have no guarantee those won't dry up the second they notice they're still funding the schools in NYC with peanuts.
There seems to be a trend now of eliminating telecommuting. Yahoo infamously banned all telecommuting when Marisa Meyer took over as CEO. I was a telecommuter at my last company, and they were bought out by a much larger company that seemed to be quietly pushing out all the telecommuters and not hiring any new ones. Companies like the ability to have teams in disparate geographical locations, but they want all the workers in boring cubicles in corporate offices, where managers can watch over them.
and that's why you will never own a company. Some people just dont have the view for it.
I live in NY, and a little known secret is, some financial companies are leaving for FL. NY city is crap under the little dictator who runs it now and most want out. Silicon valley really isn't anymore unless you go to the Philippines, I don't get why people keep bringing it up as an example.
Real estate is insane, obviously ... but you're also dealing with the transportation headaches. Where I work now, we already have some big problems with that, and we don't have NYC's density. (Everyone's pushed and prodded to use public transportation since cars are impractical with high daily parking costs, traffic jams, etc.)
No one that can avoid it drives in NYC, out of my company of 60+ people only one drives. Most take the train or bike.
But with public transportation, you're really limited in what you can carry.
What are you carrying?
Any kind of office outing requires renting an expensive bus to shuttle everyone to or from the event, too.
You walk to events in NYC because everything is within walking distance. I don't think there's been a company event that wasn't within walking distance.
And if the subway has a problem, you may as well shut the place down until they get things fixed.
Unless your office is in the middle of nowhere there's a half dozen separate subway lines near it and even with the main lines delays don't happen very often. That's like saying you can't drive anywhere because there might be a traffic jam.
Additionally, your employees who might otherwise be happy to work late or odd hours to finish some project are constrained by the hours the bus or metro runs.
The NYC subways and buses run 24/7 with rather good reliability except at 4am (and even then it's decent unless you live in the middle of nowhere).
If the physical presence makes no difference (software development, for example) -- then you want the CHEAPEST place you can build an office and still be able to hire good talent. I think what many companies would find if they actually thought "outside the box" a bit, is that there's a LOT of great computer talent in the small, rural communities. Kids growing up there don't have as much to do, so many gravitate towards the home computer and the internet, and spend a lot of time with it. The technical minded who don't envision themselves working the family farm like their parents did constitute a good hiring pool that's neglected.
Oh, you're talking about outsourced tech support services. You do realize that 90+% of tech jobs aren't that, right? Well tech jobs that pay well at least, the grunts who runs around the city repairing PCs isn't the top of the tech hierarchy.
See, when people talk about startups in NYC they mean software startups. As in developers, system admins, dev op and so on. Companies that create products.
Mod this shit up.
There's also quality of life factors to consider: big cities are great for the young and accomodating ("Sure I can work through the weekend."), but as for the rest of us schlubs, there are other things to keep in mind, like family, and life outside the office...
So, in one breath you're stating there are quality of life factors, and yet you imply that the young and/or single can and will work day and night, tolling away.
Single, married, divorced, kids, pets, I don't care what your situation is, I grow tired of the "young and accommodating" being assumed as slave labor. And the sad reality of that is they truly feel they have to kill themselves working 80 hours a week just to impress someone.
What is wrong with these people? Let me explain: I know when I think of the best way to start a new company or open a new branch or expand my new business, the first thing that comes to mind is open it in the most expensive area of one of the most expensive states with the most expensive rent and property costs. Just think of the prestige of saying I'm based in New York and never mind the millions and millions of dollars in additional unnecessary expenses, not to mention burdening employees with a commute from hell just to get there in the first place every morning. Crime, noise, terrorism, forget all that! We're setting up shop in NYC for absolutely no reason!
The part going on now where in one breath they tell us the recession is causing unemployment and wage freezes and everyone is working oh-so hard to get that fixed and in the next we hear about Wall Street rallies, now highs being reached and record corporate profits. OH, and we need more H1-Bs because there's not enough people looking for a job here.
thanks for posting the story. didn't realize that office space in a big American city was so scarce. learned something new. guess a company could lease some space in the suburbs if they are lucky to find one.
never heard of the Brooklyn Navy Yard before. didn't know New York City had a navy base. i've heard of the Battery fort but not the Navy Yard.
There's space to be had - Governor's Island. That rock has been sitting idle for years, but the "woe is us - we're too crowded" headlines make for better ad sales than "we just blew up a building that could have housed any number of businesses if we'd just fixed it up." You have to really want it, people. Not just wank about it.
You should come work for my company, or the company I worked for last year. You won't have to work 80 hours per week (or even 50 or 60) to impress us. I don't think I've ever worked more than 45.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
They have created the startup of a high tech business slum.
Right, because Google, Apple, Microsoft, and all other major contenders have giant campuses in NYC...
Yes but you live in South Carolina. A state that still flies the Confederate flag over the capital. A state where many people are not yet sold on this whole union thing and who reminisce about the good parts of slavery.
I've been to South Carolina. The next time I go back it will hopefully be a re-enactment of Sherman's march.
That's a very good point. There are more IT workers than just me. There is, in fact, a great level of diversity in tech workers, tech companies, and their goals in life and business. It's great for city-oriented tech workers that NYC is becoming a place that lots of tech workers like to live and work, and that doesn't need to undercut anyone else's tech work (except insofar as it's a better deal for the employee, which is just fair competition).
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Why is it bad to give them real estate subsidies? Real estate taxes are not the primary revenue generator of city income.
I'm not sure you realize how important it is that NYC diversify its economy. 20% of our tax base comes from wall street. Not simply the corporate taxes, but the salaries and bonuses. When they take a hit, the city can face some very real financial trouble. The goal of these tax breaks are not to attract one or two big companies, but to foster a community of startups by reducing capital requirements.
The best part is that its working. The economy in NYC has been very strong relative to the rest of the country, but recently its felt incredibly vibrant. Much of this is the product of a growing community of test startups.
Single, married, divorced, kids, pets, I don't care what your situation is, I grow tired of the "young and accommodating" being assumed as slave labor. And the sad reality of that is they truly feel they have to kill themselves working 80 hours a week just to impress someone.
It really shouldn't be that way, and I didn't get the impression that OP meant that it should be. It does seem to BE that way though and it takes a number of years experience to learn better. It probably stems from the way that kids are encouraged in their school years. How often do they hear "your school work is very important but so is time with friends and family". (yes, I know, overdo that and they'll never crack a book).
How often do they get the advice to do good work, and be reasonable about it but don't be a chump.
Obviously you are missing something or maybe deliberately being obtuse. The real estate prices in New York are very high precisely because there is so much demand. Living where there is cheap easy access to employment, cultural, recreational, medical, educational, etc. resources without needing a car is a huge advantage.
I haven't see anyone talk about foreign born high tech workers, but young single Asian or Indian engineers have more shall we say mating opportunities in cities with large foreign populations. What is worse in many parts of the county mixed race couples in small towns get stares or even suffer outright discrimination - that is not the case in chaotic "melting pot" big cities where the ship has already sailed on inter-marriages.
As you pointed out, kids especially teenagers have a lack of things to do in small towns. What happens that the most ambitious and gifted teenagers growing up in rural Oklahoma go to Oklahoma City. Ones growing up in Oklahoma City go to Dallas and those up in Dallas go to LA. If you grow up in New York, LA or Chicago there is no place else to go.
They all have offices here, and why do you need a sprawling campus when all of the things a campus can provide are right outside the front door?
As a customer, I would tend to say that I'd rather not pay for your oversized rent.
If the physical presence makes no difference (software development, for example) -- then you want the CHEAPEST place you can build an office and still be able to hire good talent. I think what many companies would find if they actually thought "outside the box" a bit, is that there's a LOT of great computer talent in the small, rural communities. Kids growing up there don't have as much to do, so many gravitate towards the home computer and the internet, and spend a lot of time with it. The technical minded who don't envision themselves working the family farm like their parents did constitute a good hiring pool that's neglected.
If a place is cheap is because nobody will like to to stay or have a business in that place most of the time. If you are building a factory with the working turns and an internal dining room and is so big that you have a private railway inside is a thing. If you are a tech company and your employees can't fill a 10 m bus and it's possible that you have to ask flex hours it's another thing.
Having a choice between herding goats and making tech support by phone I'll prefer herding goats. You can always butcher a obxonious goat.
This is why the growing approach is the combination of the two. RTP in North Carolina, Austin, New Orleans, Oklahoma City... All places people are willing to live, with stuff to do, much cheaper in terms of real estate / utilities / taxes, and a talent pool available. For a start up Cali or NYC make sense, but for an already established company? For example if Cisco will pay you the same amount of cash to work in RTP, Herndon, or San Jose why would you not go to RTP?
oh please. i came to a rural area from NYC. You know what NYC is filled with ? assholes. lots and lots of assholes, just like you. the subway runs 24 hours - and you can get mugged/robbed/raped for 12 of those hours. it stinks, its full of filthy poor assholes and like the rest of NYC theyre also RUDE assholes. it costs too much to live in a shithole shoebox, its full of rats, cockroaches and rotting food on the streets and anyone who lives in a rural area and wants to get to NYC has never been there in their life. the ONLY reason to locate in NYC is if your customer base is the asshole set who live in NYC and have offices in NYC. in which case you should open a sales office there and main office elsewhere.
Interesting that you use an aggressive, profanity laden, AC post to call me an asshole. :) There are so many wonderful people in this city it makes my head spin, but if your experience was so focused on the negative aspects then I feel bad for you. There are certainly a lot of unpleasant things here in NYC, but there's a lot of EVERYTHING in NYC.
It's not the place for everybody, but it is a great place for me.
Right, because Google, Apple, Microsoft, and all other major contenders have giant campuses in NYC...
Google owns 3 million square feet of space in Manhattan, and was willing to pay $1.9B for it.
Some people have a really limited idea of what the tech community consists of. Everyone forgets about companies like Bloomberg.
Consider this. Do you think that the financial services industry, headquartered in NYC, controlling some $14 TRILLION dollars in assets has been sitting on its ass ignoring technological innovation for the last 15 years? If they have, can you think of a better place or industry to start a new company?
If not, do you think you may have missed it because you were too distracted by the shinny consumer electronics and social networks to notice what the big boys were doing?
Boise, Idaho for next Silicon Valley City!
Nearly every city wants to be the next "valley". And I guess 'the Alley' didn't work out as he wanted.
In order for NYC to stay as a competitive global city, it needs a dedicated high tech sector, much like Boston, Los Angeles, D.C., ATL and Seattle. But because of wall-street influence and super high COL, are it's real challenges.
Over the years so many places try to recreate Silicon Valley, or rebrand an area to make it sound tech oriented. Never mind that in Silicon Valley that most of the silicon has left and the social media low-tech crap has taken over, plus places like San Jose and San Francisco have latched on and want to claim to be a part of Silicon Valley. So even Silicon Valley can't be like Silicon Valley used to be.
Why is it bad to give them real estate subsidies? Real estate taxes are not the primary revenue generator of city income.
I think you are confused. I was answering the question of "What's the appeal?"; you appear to be defending the adversary position to the position in the article. I didn't take a position on that one way or the other, so I'm a bit confused as to why you are defending this position to me.
I'm not sure you realize how important it is that NYC diversify its economy. 20% of our tax base comes from wall street. Not simply the corporate taxes, but the salaries and bonuses. When they take a hit, the city can face some very real financial trouble.
This is a different problem; this is called "spending more money than you take in". California has the same problem; in fact, very few states do not operate on a deficit in the current economy, and the ones which don't are the red states, like Texas, which are inherently fiscally conservative, and tend towards social conservatism, as well: if you don't pay for large social programs, you can save that money for a rainy day.
The goal of these tax breaks are not to attract one or two big companies, but to foster a community of startups by reducing capital requirements.
The best part is that its working. The economy in NYC has been very strong relative to the rest of the country, but recently its felt incredibly vibrant. Much of this is the product of a growing community of test startups.
I think you are rephrasing what I already stated as the goal. I think you are reply to the wrong posting.
If you truly think that the IRT, BMT, and IND are in any meaningful way independent, you're completely brainwashed. New York City drove all three into bankruptcy many decades ago and seized the system for itself. As for carrying capacity, you're limited to whatever you can carry up a staircase with either buses or subway, less during rush hour. Consider, for example, three bags of groceries.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
>>fueled on dreams and starbucks
seriously fuck off until you gain a clue
They must have some kind of magic power.
It's called population density.
What about that is contradictory (well aside from the H1-B claim which isn't part of the recession thing)?
If corporations are making record profits, how is it they have no money for hiring and cost of living raises (as opposed to the actual case, they're unwilling).
In a recession,. the market should be down and corporate profits dwindling.
If corporations are making record profits, how is it they have no money for hiring and cost of living raises (as opposed to the actual case, they're unwilling).
That's different from the stock market being up. I don't see a lot of evidence for the claim that corporations are making record profits.
In a recession,. the market should be down and corporate profits dwindling.
And it was.
100% right. They outright bought the second largest building in New York, and you can be damn sure they didn't do it without some thought. And if nobody wanted to live and work in the city, why is it their second-largest office? They have a large engineering presence (over 50%), but it's also the primary sales headquarters because it's infinitely valuable to be able to meet with your biggest customers without having to fly across a continent.
Furthermore, for employees, it's not really any more expensive to live there than in the bay area. Rents and pay are similar, but you don't need a car or gas or insurance. Public transit in the NYC metro area is the only world-class public transit system in the United States, and probably the continent. Between subways, trains, and buses (out in the suburbs) you can get from arbitrary point A to arbitrary point B in a 50 mile radius easily, DC/Philly/Boston by Amtrak is no harder, and for the rare times you can't, you can rent a car a few times a year with the money you've saved.
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
The recession is claimed to be ongoing but the market is up and corporate profits are trending up. Some have record profits, most are down from all time highs but recovering nicely.
This recession seems to be only for Mom'n'Pop.