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Patents Vs Innovation - the Tabarrok Curve

New submitter Optimal Cynic writes "Slashdot likes to argue about intellectual property and patents, and it's clear that both extremes are undesirable. Dr Alex Tabarrok has tackled the question — what is the right level of patent protection? His answer is the Tabarrok Curve, which applies the Laffer Curve methodology to innovation."

10 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. Some fundamental, unchecked assumption here ? by vikingpower · · Score: 4, Informative

    Tabarrok seems to tacitly assume that innovation can be regulated via legislation. It seems to me that this non-proven, basic assumption has been proven wrong more than once, e.g. during the few years preceding the internet bubble of the '90s. The tip of the curve, then and there, lay completely to the left. ( Where IMHO it should be, but I am trying to separate facts from discussion from personal opinion here. )

    --
    Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
    1. Re:Some fundamental, unchecked assumption here ? by stenvar · · Score: 4, Informative

      Tabarrok seems to tacitly assume that innovation can be regulated via legislation.

      Where in the world do you get that idea from?

      He just says that too much patent protection has a cost that, at some point, must outweigh any benefits, so the optimal level of patent protection is not the maximum one. What the optimum level is, he doesn't know

      If you're of the school that believes that patent protection is always bad, then his argument isn't meant for you. He isn't arguing for more patent protection with people like you, he is arguing against more patent protection with people who say "since some patent protection is good, more must be better".

    2. Re:Some fundamental, unchecked assumption here ? by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 4, Informative

      Tabarrok seems to tacitly assume that innovation can be regulated via legislation. It seems to me that this non-proven, basic assumption has been proven wrong more than once, e.g. during the few years preceding the internet bubble of the '90s. The tip of the curve, then and there, lay completely to the left. ( Where IMHO it should be, but I am trying to separate facts from discussion from personal opinion here. )

      Where in the world do you get that idea from?

      From TFA, as in these lines:

      So, we’ve constructed the patent system: people have a 17 year exclusive right to such public goods. That is, we’ve made them excludable by law

      I am not necessarily of the "school that believes that patent protection is always bad". I am of the school that believes that patent protection is, sometimes, a necessary evil, and bad at all other times.

      For the benefit of those who did not read TFA: What he is saying is that patent protection can boost innovation but if that protection is too great the patents get used as a weapon to bash competitors with the result that there is a net drop in innovation. Furthermore he is arguing that we have passed well beyond the point where patent protection is a demotivating influence on innovation so in that sense you actually agree with him. One only has to look at his curve to see this:

      http://b-i.forbesimg.com/timworstall/files/2013/06/tabarrokcurve.png

      In that graph, if you move too far to the left and you have no patent protection at all which stifles innovation, move too far to the right and have excessive patent protection also stifles innovation, stay somewhere in the middle and patent protection will actually boost innovation above the two extremes. You seem to be mostly arguing for the greatest innovation being achieved at a point that is very close to the left hand extreme. I'm not saying he is right in every detail but the basic idea of applying the Laffer tax revenue curve to innovation seems sound. Too much red tape around patents is just as detrimental to innovation as overtaxation is to state revenue. Likewise too little patent protection is just as likely to stifle innovation as excessive tax cuts are likely to screw up state finances.

      As regards the legal system he eventually suggests that it may not be the patent system that is at fault so much as the legal system it self:

      Knowledge is a public good and thus in a pure free market we think that too little of it will be produced. Too strong a protection and again too little will be produced.

      These are the sorts of thorny questions that we instituted government to deal with for us. Hands up everyone who thinks that our current politicians are going to get this necessary balance right? Quite: it might be that it’s not so much the patent system which is not fit for purpose as the legislative.

      Basically he is hypothesising here that we can move ourselves further to the left on his Tabarrok curve mostly (though presumably not exclusively) by legal reform rather than patent reform. I am no lawyer but it seems pretty obvious to me that fixing the legal system such that patent trolling by two bit law firms in East Texas and general patent warfare by major corporations were made significantly harder than it currently is, might be a good idea. In fact the whole issue of anti-competitive and SLAPP lawsuits and the power they give people with lots of money to spend to extort less wealthy people/organisations/companies is something that needs urgent fixing.

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    3. Re:Some fundamental, unchecked assumption here ? by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Informative

      His hypothesis makes sense but it only looks at the time constraints. I assume he did this because it is the easiest thing to legislate and not have to deal with constitutional matters in the US, since the constitution directs the government "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;"

      No, the Constitution only empowers the federal government to grant patents and copyrights. Article I, section 8 does not direct it to do so, however, any more than it directs the government to grant letters of marque and reprisal to privateers, which is another power it holds. Making the US a patent free zone mitt be a bad idea, but it would be perfectly constitutional.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    4. Re:Some fundamental, unchecked assumption here ? by devent · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's just his opinion. And his curve is a straw man that he puts out of his ass.
      Where is the evidence that some patent protection is good? Ah right there is none. Everybody just assumes that some patent protection is good for innovation. That is just like creationism or like any other theology.

      There is evidence that more patent protection is bad. See software patents. But where is the evidence for the other side, i.e. no patent protection as bad?

      Don't come to me with some mind experiments like "But without patent protection where is the incentive to innovate". People have innovate for freaking 50,000 years. Our patent system, or our capitalist system is just about 250 years old.

      I repeat. There is no evidence that any patent protection increases innovation.

      There is plenty of evidence that too strong patent protection hampers innovation. See software patents, patents on DNA, business patents, and so on.

      There is also evidence that no patent protection actually increases innovation (I posted already here but I post again)
      The only real empirical study that I know of is The patent game.
      See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Pi4w8ddA8
      And they come with quite surprising conclusions.

      "pure common system" means no patent protection.

      1. patents increase innovations?

      Average unique innovations is lower in the "pure patent system", and is higher in the "pure common system"
      Productivity, aka economic activity, the "pure common system" is almost double the "pure patent system"
      Per capita wealth, the total amount of dollars generated in the system: "pure common system" is almost 4 times that of the "pure patent system".

      Conclusion: "Despite received wisdom, commons spur innovation better then do patents"

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
  2. Assurance contracts by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 4, Informative

    Tabarrok is also known for his work on how to fund public goods via non-patent means, in particular his dominant assurance contract form which is a variant of what Kickstarter does.

  3. don't help and there's more than innovation by ciaran_o_riordan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For software, they don't help innovation, and promoting innovation can't be the only goal. Lots of non-innovative software development is really useful.

    * http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Studies_on_economics_and_innovation
    * http://en.swpat.org/wiki/More_than_innovation

    And it's really crucial that patents be analysed per-domain. The don't affect pharma and the auto industry the same, and they don't affect software the same either. The distribution models are different, as is the profile of who mass produces each thing, as is the complexity (number of ideas) that get added to a product within one lifecycle, and the length of product lifecycles...

    * http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Why_software_is_different

    1. Re:don't help and there's more than innovation by ikaruga · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Another nice feature would be protecting only patents actually used in products made by the inventor or its partners, in order to take out those so called patent trolls that don't produce anything. If in the future the inventor actually decides to use the patent in an actual product and there is someone already using it there could be some sort of predetermined fee. Obviously I'm oversimplifying the huge problem, but something must be done about those parasites.

  4. Even more fundamental assumption by Camael · · Score: 4, Insightful

    An even more fundamental assumption he makes is that intellectual property legislation is desirable because it encourages innovation. Why should that be a given?

    Take for example, the very same example cited in TFA, Sir Issac Newton and his mathematical principles. Isaac Newton composed Principia Mathematica during 1685 and 1686, and it was published in a first edition on July 5, 1687. Copyright did not exist at that time; the very first copyright law, the Statute of Anne was enacted only 23 years later in 1710.

    The point I am trying to make is that people will innovate and create, even without the protection of intellectual property laws.

    On a separate point, if the whole rationale for intellectual property legislation is to promote innovation, shouldn't the focus be on protecting the rights of the actual person doing the creating, as opposed to whichever faceless entity who may own the contractual right to make use of the invention? Start by making intellectual property rights vest only in the creator, and make it non transferrable. This will force commercial entities to grant a fair share of the profits to the real innovators instead of the giving an unearned bonus to the patent troll who own a large number of the patents today. The way it is structured today, it is very clear that intellectual property legislation only benefits those with the capital to buy over the rights and not the creators themselves.

  5. Re:The Laffer Curve? by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oh, come on! These two curves are perfectly related: They're both attempting to vaguely connect 2 variables that intuitively seem like they ought to have something to do with each other without actually being a remotely accurate description of reality.

    For reference, Arthur Laffer said the theoretical relationship between tax rates and government revenue per capita looks like this:
    Laffer Curve
    A suspicious Martin Gardner then plotted the actual relationship between tax rates and government revenue per capita, and got something that looks like this:
    Neo-Laffer Curve

    My basic view on the subject:
    1. There's absolutely no way to measure real innovation. Some of the problems:
    - Discoveries that seem unimportant can turn out to be incredibly important 15 years later, and vice versa.
    - Organizations sometimes protect their discoveries by keeping them secret.
    - Academics often give away the knowledge they have without patenting it to build their career. However, they can also build their career by giving away nonsense and getting away with it.
    - A lot of "innovations" are just tiny variations on things that we already have and don't make much real difference (e.g. the rounded rectangle).
    2. There are lots of motivations for innovation, some of which can't be bottled, organized, or turned into policies. For example, the more idealistic scientists are motivated more by the joy of discovery than by the cash they'll get.
    3. That means that trying to take a theoretical approach to creating more innovation is just plain unworkable. The one thing that seems to have worked, historically speaking, is (1) put really smart people in contact with each other, (2) make sure they have plenty of cash and whatever they need to do their work, and (3) tell them they can focus on pretty much whatever they feel like working on, just make something awesome happen. That worked in Alexandria 2300 years ago, it worked in Baghdad around 1000 years ago, it worked in London around 200 years ago, it worked in Bell Labs in the last century.

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