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Perspectives On the Latest IBM Layoffs

An anonymous reader writes "After IBM reported disappointing Q1 earnings in March, to nobody's surprise, layoffs (RAs or 'Resource Actions' in IBM parlance) were announced two months later; June 12 seemed to be when most of the pink slips were handed out. While this is hardly a novel occurrence at IBM, this time the RA'd employee water cooler page is now open for everyone's inspection, and Cringely let loose with some predictable I-told-you-so's about financially oriented IBM senior management. Dan Burger at IT Jungle has a more numbers-oriented take on the latest round of layoffs."

18 of 135 comments (clear)

  1. It's not the layoffs by rickb928 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Though I feel for these employees that will watch their work go elsewhere, cheaper, more flexible/captive, and lower quality.

    It's the lies IBM will tell its customers, starting with the quality lies, then the onshore/offshore lies, and finally the resource commitment lies.

    And how the government customers will roll over and ignore the contract provisions.

    And later will stop asking IBM to even bother to keep work and data onshore when it is required by law.

    Corpratists. Crony Capitalism. we are being fleeced.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    1. Re:It's not the layoffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Though I feel for these employees that will watch their work go elsewhere, cheaper, more flexible/captive, and lower quality.

      Nonsense, Sanjay delivers most excellent work professional! He is to give you fine product definite! And his English is making superb! Great documentation and phone support is his being best at and is to be forthcoming!

    2. Re:It's not the layoffs by Nerdfest · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you're still buying software or services from IBM, you deserve what you get, and vice-versa.

    3. Re:It's not the layoffs by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Funny

      You sir can do the needful, and if you are not liking the same then jolly tough cheese isn't it old boy?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:It's not the layoffs by rijrunner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Though I feel for these employees that will watch their work go elsewhere, cheaper, more flexible/captive, and lower quality.

      It's the lies IBM will tell its customers, starting with the quality lies, then the onshore/offshore lies, and finally the resource commitment lies.

      And how the government customers will roll over and ignore the contract provisions.

      And later will stop asking IBM to even bother to keep work and data onshore when it is required by law.

      Corpratists. Crony Capitalism. we are being fleeced.

      When I was at IBM, it worked like this..

      1Q disappointing sales.
      2Q layoffs.
      3Q OMG, look at things improve
      4Q Look at how we've improved. Let's give the execs a bonus equivalent to the combined salary of the people we laid off.
      1Q disappointing sales.
      2Q layoffs.
      3Q OMG, look at things improve
      4Q Look at how we've improved. Let's give the execs a bonus equivalent to the combined salary of the people we laid off.
      1Q disappointing sales.
      2Q layoffs.
      3Q OMG, look at things improve
      4Q Look at how we've improved. Let's give the execs a bonus equivalent to the combined salary of the people we laid off.

    5. Re:It's not the layoffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      What we need to do is start outsourcing executives. How much skill does it take to play golf and schmooze?

    6. Re:It's not the layoffs by harrkev · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The company that I work for is starting down this same path, so I am getting laid off in a few day. It is so incredibly short-sighted to be focused on the next quarter instead of the quarter that is five or ten years away.

      I have also noticed that every company wants to have 95th percentile engineers, but they all want to pay 50th percentile salaries. Does anybody else see the logical contradiction there?

      By the way: anybody need an ASIC or FPGA designer (RTL or physical design) in the Colorado Springs area?

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
  2. IBM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Indian Business Machines is based in Armonk - still?

    Global IBM employment is clearly dropping but employment in India, for example, is rising, so is this a net global number or gross layoffs?

    Of course they are hiring in India.

    The IBM that used to be the leader in social reform and good corporate citizenship no longer exists.

    That ended in the 90s.

    In IBM’s big plans its customers are a necessary evil.

    That is the case for EVERY big corp. See the: banking, airline, cell phone, cable TV industries for downright hostile attitudes towards customers. IBM isn't quite there - yet.

    No IBM customer is asking the company to put fewer workers on their account.

    That won't happen. Customers will just get more workers in India.

    See people - business customers - why go through an American based services company when all they really do is resell Indian (and other third world countries) labor? Buy direct and save money! And you don't have to put up with the ex-ballplayer salesman who makes waaaayyy too much money just because he's over six foot, classically handsome and looks good in a suit.

    1. Re:IBM by ebno-10db · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your radiology xrays are read by MDs abroad, and even your military is fed by workers from 3rd world countries. So it is but obvious that Americans love cheap stuff and dont really care about where it is manufactured or assembled ( e.g. iPhone) or who does the work.

      That's a gross oversimplification. I'm not opposed to importing goods and services, so long as the trade is balanced.

      So why do you suddenly feel surprised that the one profession that can easily work from home is now getting outsourced ?

      Sudden? You call the last 13 years sudden? And programming is far from the only job that can be performed at home. Think of your radiologist example (though that happens less than you might think, thanks to the doctor's union). Think call center operations, much accounting and legal work, etc.

      White collar jobs are no different from blue collar jobs, because the value added compared to the compensation is severely mismatched in the USA.

      How do you come to the conclusion that it's severely mismatched? It's slightly mismatched. If it wasn't mismatched at all then we'd eliminate our persistent trade deficit. Of course this leads sycophantic pundits to say that American workers should be more "globally competitive" (i.e. work for less), as though the $50k/yr person should suddenly accept $40k. Wrong approach, because what matters in terms of international comparisons is what someone earns times the exchange rate. $100k means nothing to a European to pays for things in Euros, until you convert it by the exchange rate. So what has to happen is for the exchange value of the dollar to drop.

      Why pay $100K for someone when it can be done by an equally experienced guy in India, Argentina or Eastern Europe for $30K ?

      Because in many cases that $30k is a false economy. Outsourcing often doesn't save much money because of all the additional management and oversight required. That doesn't even include the quality, support and delivery time issues. To the extent it does save money, the difference is just shoveled into the pockets of CEO's and shareholder. That doesn't save money for the customer, it just shuffles the money to different people.

      the only reason to call them a US company is because of their incorporation in Delaware

      I completely agree. Companies that do more work outside of the US than in it shouldn't be allowed to be American companies.

  3. Re:Union by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Cutting costs not to go broke? Where have you been the last 40 years? Companies don't "cut costs" to avoid closing. They "cut costs" to appease wall street and the financial sector. Companies only make products and sell services as a front. Their real business is an incestuous stock market scam where they work staff to the bone, then fire them and ride the short-term profit wave caused by no having to pay said worker. (Your work and contributions earn a company money for many months after you leave. That code you wrote, contract landed, or book you balanced does not vanish when you leave.)

    "Costs" are saved as executives and upper management get bonuses and make money hand over fist, all as the company is slowly chopped in to pieces and loaded with debt. Eventually the company crashes, and the execs float on their golden parachutes to the next gig, where they do the same thing all over again.

    Eventually we're going to run out of things to run in to the ground. What then, America?

  4. Worked at IBM by Bigbutt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I worked there for 2 years. There were some interesting technical benefits however the sysadmin team was highly siloed. I counted 12 teams that had fingers on the servers we managed. The worst part was the cog in the machine treatment. Some manager you'd never seen before would come into the cube farm on Monday, and seemingly randomly tap 2 or 3 folks out. They'd have their desks cleaned out by Wednesday. Your manager would find you 3 or 4 jobs but they'd require a transfer to a different location. When my sysadmin job was outsourced to India (we had to train them before we left), my manager found Data Center building jobs in Kansas, web programming jobs locally, and contract support for a company in Boston. Fortunately that was a telecommute position. We had folks from New York, Boston (on site), New Jersey, Washington State, and me in Colorado. The team was so broken due to the lack of face to face interaction that folks would leave and new folks come in every few months. I finally left when management tapped our customer interface and she had 2 days to transfer all her knowledge to the replacement. I could deal with most of the cog in the machine stuff, but the '2 days and you're out' stuff was extremely stressful.

    [John]

    --
    Shit better not happen!
    1. Re:Worked at IBM by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you know you're going to go, why do people train their offshore replacements. Just get it over with. Tell them to go fuck themselves and learn the systems on their own, then leave. If need be, start looking for work right at the outset and set that as the priority; not training the fucking offshore scabs. Then leave. If a company has that little loyalty to you, then fuck 'em, they don't deserve a work ethic of any sort, nor any loyalty.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    2. Re:Worked at IBM by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you know you're going to go, why do people train their offshore replacements. Just get it over with.

      Well, I can't speak for IBM, but I've been through layoffs before.

      If they tell you you're being laid off, but you still need to do the training of your replacements, you likely only get any severance package they're giving you if you comply.

      If you tell them to fuck off and train themselves, they might say "OK, you quit so you get no severance package".

      So, if your choice is do it and get your severance, or not do it and get nothing at all, most people would choose the former. If you're in a position to go for the moral satisfaction of telling them to screw themselves, well, go ahead.

      In my case, they were laying off an entire team which maintained a product. They kept me on a little longer to do the knowledge transfer and shut off the lights, but on my next-to-last day we got a big panic from a salesman who said there were critical bugs to be fixed and a few new features to be added, and there was a multi-million dollar sale on the line.

      That, unfortunately, required that I remind them that if they had that much business on the line, then why were they cutting the entire development team? I'll help you do the knowledge transfer if my severance on the line, but suddenly realizing that you needed me to do more than the winding down process to support sales was a little much, and I was only willing to go so far.

      If we had millions in the pipeline and you've now laid off the entire development team -- well, you need to be making smarter decisions. If the accountants decide to lay off your business critical people, then you have a problem with your accountants. Having the sales guys in a big panic was just insult to injury -- I don't care that your commission is at risk, because that's not my problem anymore.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  5. I'm glad I got out of there by swillden · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Whenever I read news about IBM, I'm glad I got out of that place. When I joined the company in the mid-90s, during Gerstner's reign, it was a great place to work, and a very successful company. There were plenty of problems, to be sure, and Gerstner laid off lots of employees, but the company was focused on the future and on building new and successful business. The employees were generally treated quite well, performance was amply rewarded, and education budgets were generous and easily accessible to ensure that technical employees continued developing their skills and the culture was one of mutual support to get things done. For large technology companies, I think the approach to employee continuing skill development is something of a bellwether for the company's future.

    When Gerstner stepped down and Palmisano took over, however, the company began a long, gradual slide. It became cost-obsessed and quarterly earnings-focused. Some belt-tightening was appropriate during the dotcom bust, but that actually didn't hit IBM very hard. The problem was that Palmisano's leadership team had no idea how to create new business, the IBM services group that Gerstner started and used to revitalize the company was reaching a kind of natural saturation point, so Palmisano started slashing costs to prop up profit growth as revenue growth got harder to find. Even worse, the cost pressure began to change the culture of the company, creating more internal competition which began to turn ugly.

    By the time I left in 2011, IBM had become a fairly unpleasant place to work. Global Services was the worst, for example utilization targets were routinely set so high that it was impossible to take vacation time without working overtime in order to make up for it, and cost controls had squeezed out all career development funding unless you could hide it in customer contracts. Software Group was struggling and had shifted more to focus on sales rather than development. IBM has always been primarily a sales company, backed by engineering, but shifting the balance too far towards sales is a way to boost short-term profits at the expense of long-term success. I personally got caught in that shift; my job was transformed underneath me from an architecture and development role to a technical sales support role. I even hear from my friends in R&D that they were also getting squeezed hard, with increasing pressure to abandon work on any ideas that couldn't be productized within a few months.

    When I heard that Ginni Rometty was taking over for Palmisano last year I just shook my head. Rometty was a driving force in squeezing services employees with ever-increasing utilization targets and ever-tightening cost structures. IMO, IBM needs another visionary like Gerstner, not another jumped-up middle manager like Palmisano, but that's what they got in Rometty. She's a smart, talented, aggressive jumped-up middle manager, but still not what IBM needs, IMO.

    I'm glad I left. I really should have done it a few years before I did.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    1. Re:I'm glad I got out of there by cmorriss · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'll second everything in the parent post including the joy of leaving the company last year. I had joined in the late 90's and saw the party slowly end and the crushing grip of earnings expectations squeeze every last penny out of the soul of each employee, especially anyone with talent.

      The company has been transformed by Palmisano into a company eating machine. The buying spree started around 2001 and has only increased. After each purchase of a company, any products it has are fed into the IBM sales machine which promises the world to every customer. Development then gets its hands on it and tries to graft every interface imaginable and scale it to hundreds of times anything that had ever been tried. Bandaids are wrapped on the thousands of issues that arise during this process and the product enters a permanent maintenance mode until another company is purchased with a similar product to replace it. Once replaced, it is summarily shat into the dung heap of end-of-life'd IBM crapware.

      All "innovation" in IBM is now focused simply on how to make the Frankenstein mess of products the company has acquired over the past decade work with each other in only the simplest ways. No more room for real developers and in fact most good ones have either headed for the doors or are in the process of doing so.

      --
      10 minutes working on a sig. What a waste.
  6. There are still Americans at IBM? by ebno-10db · · Score: 4, Funny

    I wasn't aware that IBM had any American employees left to layoff, unless the CEO fired herself.

  7. Wrong - on so many levels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So why do you suddenly feel surprised that the one profession that can easily work from home is now getting outsourced ?

    No one is surprised.

    What you are missing is the lies that corporate America tells: that they are going offshore because they can't get qualified Americans. It's of no surprise to anyone - except for you - that corporations are going overseas to save costs.

    Suddenly you talk of Corporate citizenship! US companies have always made plans with their investors in mind - not their employees, and considering most of your companies make more money outside the US than in US... the only reason to call them a US company is because of their incorporation in Delaware.

    What's this 'suddenly'?

    And no, back in the old days, companies like Dupont, Ford, and even IBM, and many others, prided themselves on taking care of their employees, their communities and their investors.

    Over the last few decades, that attitude has become "quaint" and corporations have developed this slash and burn mentality that benefits their CEOS at the expense of the employees and the shareholders.

    This is about well connected and incompetent people getting these CEO jobs, fucking up a company, and getting compensated handsomely for performance that would have a member of the rank and file fired.

    Your and the mod's naivete is pathetic.

  8. Why not do a bad job of it? by unixisc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why not simply do a quick & dirty bad job of it? Prepare a few handouts, as well as, say, a quiz for the new replacements that's easy to fly through. Use that as the metric to tell the company that you've taught them what is needed, and that they are good to go. Then leave w/ the severence. The management is left w/ the impression that the offshored work force is equal to the job, and get the shock of their lives when things start disintegrating. After that, it's just a matter of time before the shit hits the fan, but by then, it's too late to take it out on the employees who've been let go.

    That way, no need to really swallow one's pride - pull a fast one on both the employers, as well as the offshore workers, and then walk away w/ the severence. Let them figure out how to run things once you're gone.