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ICANN Working Group Seeks To Kill WHOIS

angry tapir writes "An Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers working group is seeking public input on a successor to the current WHOIS system used to retrieve domain name information. The Expert Working Group on gTLD Directory Services has issued a report that recommends a radical change from WHOIS, replacing the current system with a centralized data store maintained by a third party that would be responsible for authorizing 'requestors' who want to obtain domain information."

35 of 155 comments (clear)

  1. not having read TFA by Tastecicles · · Score: 5, Informative

    Is the submitter trying to tell us that this third party is potentially a commercial venture intended to collect fees on $whois$ queries, which would also be dependent on giving a damn good reason for wanting to know who owns $domain?

    BTW, I think the headline is a: alarmist and b: misleading. It would be better written as "ICANN Working Group seeks to replace WHOIS."

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    1. Re:not having read TFA by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here's your answer:

      "Requestors" – people who want to query the data maintained by ARDS – would have to apply for the right to access domain information.

      Basically, they'd be extracting a licensing fee from the current people you go to for WHOIS lookups. Arguably this could be called "killing" WHOIS since it means taking away its... free spirit.

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    2. Re:not having read TFA by black3d · · Score: 5, Informative

      No specific word from the article on charges per se, however I don't think "seeks to kill WHOIS" is alarmist. The plan is to basically remove the WHOIS system, and instead have all the data managed by a "third party", to whom you have to apply to if you want any information on a particular domains ownership, rather than they automated system we have now.

      FTA:
      Access to the 'live' domain records maintained by gTLD registries would also be possible via the ARDS "upon request and subject to controls to deter overuse or abuse of this option". "Requestors" – people who want to query the data maintained by ARDS – would have to apply for the right to access domain information.

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    3. Re:not having read TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Is the submitter trying to tell us that this third party is potentially a commercial venture intended to collect fees on $whois$ queries, which would also be dependent on giving a damn good reason for wanting to know who owns $domain?

      This is going to make it difficult for visitors to a site, to let the site owners know, personally, that they've been hacked. Ive stopped two websites so far, from spreading viruses after they've got hacked due to using old joomla 1.2. Blackhole exploit redirects, i beleive the term is.

    4. Re:not having read TFA by icebike · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm fine with whois, even though it has been steadily degraded by private registrations recently.

      I'm not convinced there is any realistic reason this information needs to be private, although I might feel differently if i lived somewhere else in the world where angry armed mods drag you from your home for expressing a view point. On the flip side of that, simply knowing that your information is available tends to induce better behavior on the Web.

      But by and large, I think people should be able to know who owns a site, or who is fronting for the owner. It helps a great deal when trying to track down and report abuse.

      I rather suspect mine is not a popular view.

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      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:not having read TFA by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you have to have permission, you will certainly pay a fee, ig for no other reason than to pay the wages of the permission issuers.

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      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    6. Re:not having read TFA by Mitchell314 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Text-based 'punch the monkey' ads. Using nCurses.

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      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    7. Re:not having read TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      It would be better written as "ICANN Working Group seeks to replace WHOIS."

      "ICANN Working Group seeks to monetize WHOIS..." is probably more accurate.

  2. Single point of failure. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A corporation is a single point of failure. As ICANN repeatedly demonstrates.

    1. Re:Single point of failure. by game+kid · · Score: 3

      ...despite ICANN, not because of.

      --
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  3. Did i just read... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "centralized data store maintained by a third party"

    Also the US government would certainly love to manage such entity.

    So that's a huge no.

    1. Re:Did i just read... by gandhi_2 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Once upon a time the US Government was THE Consortion for assigned names and numbers. They were THE registrar.

      They gave it up.

    2. Re:Did i just read... by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Good ol' times. Back when we were the free world. Remember those times? Life was good. The older ones might even remember it.

      Be honest. Do you think this would happen now?

      --
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    3. Re:Did i just read... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nope--it wasn't the Gummint that kept that data, it was Jon Postel. He may have been supported indirectly by the Feds, but he sure kept his honesty and integrity. Things have sure gone downhill since he died.

      It's a bit ironic, though, that his name wasn't on any of the RFC's relating to whois.

  4. Well there goes the neighborhood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Great, so we are going to privatize the WHOIS service and make it much more difficult (pay per query?) to get information out of it.

    Guessing one of the usual corrupt telcos or domain name registration companies will bid to be the 'third party' and find a way to fuck this up good.

  5. Horrible for network security... by marciot · · Score: 5, Informative

    As a system admin, I tend to use WHOIS to figure out who is hitting my firewall, or to investigate if traffic is flowing to suspicious domains. Would really suck if WHOIS became a pay service, making it easier for the bad guys to hide.

    1. Re:Horrible for network security... by gandhi_2 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I know, right?

      Imagine having to PAY to find out you are being attacked by.... "DOMAINS BY PROXY, LLC"

    2. Re:Horrible for network security... by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The tinfoil-hat enthusiast in me would say that this may be one of the intentions behind it.

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    3. Re:Horrible for network security... by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If i was getting paid each time you wanted to find out who was attacking you, I might be tempted to make sure you were attacked more often... Just sayin...

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      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  6. How monetize "whois"... by Macdude · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is all about setting up a system to charge for access to 'whois' information. Phrases like "authorizing 'requestors'" is code for charging users.

    --
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    1. Re:How monetize "whois"... by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is all about setting up a system to charge for access to 'whois' information. Phrases like "authorizing 'requestors'" is code for charging users.

      Have you tried searching for a WHOIS record lately? Well over 90% of the records I have searched for in the past 2-3 years have been intentionally obfuscated by various systems as it is. This only accelerates their profits. This is, of course, the only thing the guys at ICANN have been interested in for some time (remember the auctions for gTLDs?).

      --
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  7. I don't like the sound of this by Sean · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What we need is a standard format for WHOIS responses. What we don't need is some monopoly gatekeeper.

    1. Re:I don't like the sound of this by Sean · · Score: 4, Informative

      Everyone go here and let them know we don't want this.

      https://www.icann.org/en/groups/other/gtld-directory-services/share-24jun13-en.htm

    2. Re:I don't like the sound of this by Sean · · Score: 4, Informative

      dig @a.gtld-servers.net example.com in soa

      If you don't get NXDOMAIN then it's registered.

    3. Re:I don't like the sound of this by Sean · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You don't have to answer all of them. You don't have to directly answer their questions either. You could just say things like:

      - I don't want this. This system is not in my best interest.
      - I don't want to register with anyone to query this data.
      - Abuse mitigation should be handled by each registrar, this is a good way for them to differentiate themselves.
      - I don't want to pay for this system at all
      - Law enforcement should be given no special access at all. Nobody should accredit them.

      You could also contact your registrar if you own a lot of domains and let them know you don't support this move at all. Ask them to oppose it.

    4. Re:I don't like the sound of this by SAH · · Score: 3, Informative

      What we need is a standard format for WHOIS responses. What we don't need is some monopoly gatekeeper.

      There's IETF work under way to develop standard formats for whois-like queries and responses: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charter/

  8. Stupid Idea by Etherwalk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There should be a way for any person to contact any domain owner or domain-owning company. Putting a service in to vet requests will make it harder.

    This is bad. And less transparent. And less distributed. And more expensive.

  9. ICANN cares not about users by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This action is not with your best interests in heart. This proposal comes with the intent of ICANN maximizing their own profits. They will blow smoke about privacy and other such utter bullshit to try to get people to support this but make no mistake, this will make the internet a less pleasant experience for users and a better hiding place for spammers.

    How so, you might ask? Right now the current WHOIS gives vague lipservice to requiring domain registrations (and only under a very specific list of TLDs at that) to be registered with valid information. As it is, a not-insignificant portion of all new registrations at any given time are completed with missing or completely bogus information. And yet when this happens ICANN - who is tasked with making WHOIS data legible - almost always does nothing.

    Now, they are just looking to openly embrace obfuscated, missing, and utterly bogus data in WHOIS records. The only people who benefit form this are the registrars that sell domains that benefit from that kind of lax registration requirement - spammers, scammers, and the like. If you don't think this matters to you, just wait until someone you know has their identity stolen after they mistype the web page for their bank, click on a fake ebay email, or do anything of that nature. The scum that will make money off of this will get to someone close to you, and this action will make it even less likely that those types will ever see any kind of punishment for their actions.

    In other words, fuck you ICANN. I hope you profiteering fucks get fucked in the ass. And then when someone tries to fuck me because of your fucking stupid actions I will do everything I can to direct them to fuck you instead, you stupid fucking fucks.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  10. Re:huh by BonThomme · · Score: 4, Funny

    two fitty, please

  11. Re:Requestors is the NSA by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Given ICANN's track record, I'm pretty sure they're just looking for more public resources to carve up and monetize.

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  12. Having read TFA and the propsal by Frobnicator · · Score: 5, Informative

    They are not talking about blocking all access to the data.

    They propose keeping a good portion of the existing data available through anonymous public requests, exactly the way current WHOIS system works today. The big difference is that there will be a single source; you won't need to do the two-step process currently in place.

    They are also proposing adding additional contact fields that have been frequently requested for WHOIS data.

    They are also proposing limiting access to some data, in particular limiting the data traditionally used to scam people with fake DNS renewals. In particular it does not talk about refusing access, simply limiting the requests to authenticated users to prevent thinks like bulk-searches that scammers frequently use. The report recommends only limited fields require authenticated access, not those used commonly by individuals or by website administrators for abuse mitigation.

    Finally, they are proposing adding new advanced search capabilities that are useful for ISPs (and also private and government surveillance) that are not currently available, but will be very useful for domain abusers spanning many TLDs.

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    1. Re:Having read TFA and the propsal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I for one prefer to have my domain details stored in my own country. We have reasonably decent privacy protection laws here, and I think the current system is adequate but am concerned about having a larger offshore database with more detail stored overseas if that country does not have sufficient privacy protection (likely).

    2. Re:Having read TFA and the propsal by Forever+Wondering · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What constitutes an authorized user?

      I have a honeypot on my home server to collect phony/random/orchestrated login/breakin attempts. A log entry has time, IP, username, pw. Eventually, I'd like to do further automated scripting. Namely, take the IP address, do a whois on it, look for the abuse contact email at the ISP, and email them the relevant log entries, with a polite request to investigate.

      If they're legit, they may want to take action against one of their users who is doing massive attempts at system breakins. That is, such attempted login/breakin activity is against the law in certain countries. It's also [probably] a violation of the ISP's TOS. I've read that many ISPs don't even know that their customers are doing such things and welcome being told because the customer activity can expose the ISP to a degree of legal liability [safe harbor notwithstanding].

      Currently, in whois data, there is no [universally used] standard for the abuse mailbox. It can be:
          abuse-mailbox: ...
          Remarks: Send abuse email to ...
          % Remarks ...
          # Send abuse reports to ...
      So, standardization would be nice.

      However, an interesting wrinkle. Although I get attempts from all over the world, most of the breakin attempts I get come from .cn hosts [just sayin ...]. The whois data from these is _always_ 100% complete and well organized. I guess they're compelled to do this by the gov't there. If, as proposed, the information goes to a central repository in [presumably] another country, there would be no way to compel an ISP to provide accurate/complete information cross-border.

      So, how does this shape up under the new proposal? Which country's laws would govern this? Per-country top level domains like .cn and .uk present fewer problems. But, what about the more generic .com, .org, etc.?

      --
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    3. Re:Having read TFA and the propsal by chihowa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Eventually, I'd like to do further automated scripting. Namely, take the IP address, do a whois on it, look for the abuse contact email at the ISP, and email them the relevant log entries, with a polite request to investigate.

      I'm sure you will be careful with this, but I just want to post a friendly reminder. Depending on how you organize your script and how often the same person hits your network, there's a chance you'll end up flooding the abuse contact with email. Not only will they not appreciate that, but there is a chance of amplification and bogging down their abuse handling process.

      In addition to the abuse-mailbox field you mention, it would be nice to standardize on an abuse report format, too. That way we could be confident that abuse reports can be properly fed into a system without depending on a human reading them directly.

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  13. There are both required and recommended contacts by Medievalist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This doesn't answer all your questions. Sorry.

    There are standardized addresses. Unfortunately, people who don't understand basic systems engineering (or who do, but are extremely greedy and amoral) refuse to use them.

    Anyone providing Internet mail services is required by the SMTP protocol definition to have a human being receiving mail at the postmaster@domain.tld address. This has been true in every single revision of the protocol starting with RFC822 and continuing to the present day in RFC2821.

    If you aren't manning the postmaster address, what you're doing is simply not SMTP, so it isn't Internet email. It is something else - metaphorically a bicycle wobbling down the center of the freeway, perhaps, or in the case of the big government-owning vendors like Verizon a steamroller in a pedestrian tunnel, crewed by laughing psychopaths.

    The abuse@domain.tld address is slightly different - it is required by RFC2142, just like the hostmaster@domain.tld address is, but that RFC is not a protocol definition or a requirement for Internet connection.

    However, the following statement is objectively true: If a domain does not staff the abuse, hostmaster and postmaster accounts, they will fall in at least one of two categories: technically incompetent or ethically corrupt.

    The technically incompetent cannot handle the mail filtering required to deal with the spamload on these addresses. AOL claims that they are part of this group.

    The ethically corrupt understand that the Internet is fundamentally a system of agreements - that wires and computers cannot function as a whole unless they use agreed-upon, mutually respected protocols, just as people cannot communicate efficiently unless they share some kind of common language. However, they also know the Internet's protocols are robust enough that only the majority of users must scrupulously comply with them, and extremely wealthy and powerful players can gain commerical advantage by breaking the rules they insist everyone else respect. Verizon and Microsoft fall in this category.

    Because people continue to buy services from the technically incompetent and the ethically corrupt, they continue to prosper. This is something the free market is supposed to magically correct, but amazingly enough the same people trumpeting the power and the glory of free markets seem to be working very hard to support regional monopolies and strengthen barriers to entry in communications markets.