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Ask Slashdot: IT Spending In Engineering?

An anonymous reader writes "I work in the engineering division at a large organization, about 2000 people total and about 900 in the engineering division. As I'm sure many institutions have been faced with recently, we are dealing with reduced budgets. We have a new director who has determined that the engineering division spends too much on 'IT' and has given us a goal of reducing IT spending by 50%. We currently spend about 8% of the total engineering budget on IT related purchases. About 10% of that (i.e. 0.8% of the total budget) is spent on what I consider traditional IT such as email, office automation software, etc.. The rest goes towards engineering related IT such as clusters for large computations, workstations for processing, better networks to handle the large data sets generated, data collection systems for testing facilities, etc.. My gut says that 8% is low compared to other engineering institutions. What do other engineering organizations spend on IT (traditional and engineering)? What strategy would you use to convince your management that 8% spending on IT is already very efficient?"

15 of 146 comments (clear)

  1. Welcome to reality by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Management exists to tell you what you need and how much you can have, not to ensure that you have what you really need to do your job efficiently.

    Also, enforcing a budget cut will probably get someone promoted yet another level beyond his competence.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:Welcome to reality by dubbreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This. New director says you spend too much. He most likely has nothing to back it up and doesn't care if anyone has facts or figures to back it up. It's a top down decision that you won't have any ability to change in any way shape or form. I'd suggest polishing up your resume.

      My best guess is this is just the beginning. He'll gut R&D (to cut costs) ramp up sales on existing products/services to show some gains and make out with a nice bonus for him/herself. After a few years of no innovation and no new products the company will start falling behind the competition and either the company will collapse, or they'll suddenly try to "innovate" (i.e. play catch up after basically leveraging the company for some quick gains). That may or may not work, but either way the company will hemorrhage talent. Any talent left behind will be so stressed, bitter and tired that they won't be half as productive as they used to (they will have figuratively quit while they wait to find something better).

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:Welcome to reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My experience over the last 15 as an engineer in various corporations -- MBA "idiots" (I use this term correctly) have a "cost cutting agenda" not to cut costs but to enhance their bonuses. Sad part is these cost costs go to their heads and makes me think there are alot of sociopaths in this grouping.

      I worked in a few companies, and larger ones have larger idiots -- they moved to cut staff and replace them with unqualified staff overseas -- staff they had no control of or no way to vet them. Many of these people have lied about their qualifications & abilities.

      What has happened is staff overseas say "yes" alot to management -- not what is needed to be heard and have spiraled such companies into the dirt.

      What counts is the cost savings in the short term which results in great bonuses for the executive management -- by the time the truth be known what a failure these costs where -- they are on to another company doing the same damage -- problem is the "harvard business school mentality" that only short term profits count.

      I believe that in 100-200 years -- the "harvard business school mentality" will be described as a bad idea especially with the fall of western civilizations.

    3. Re:Welcome to reality by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed. I have seen this from the outside several times now. The problem with this mentality is that essential costs are hidden (loss of talent, loss of company expertise, loss of viable strategy, ... and that the sociopaths doing the damage are never held accountable for their crimes. Hence this goes on and on.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    4. Re:Welcome to reality by ka8zrt · · Score: 5, Informative

      Four words (which should be printed in blold letters, etc.) come to mind about similar situations
      - CompuServe
      - Lucent Bell Labs

      While these were not IT spending per-say, in both cases, upper level management had their own inept vision of reality and agendas. The lower levels tried to get management to understand, management refused to listen, and the rest as they say is history. Sadly, folks at the upper levels of both of these were not entirely a bunch of idiots with sales, marketing, MBA or accounting folks. In the case of CompuServe, we were clearly tech heavy all the way to the top at the time. We just had management who had their own vision/plans, and could not be convinced of the fact that was was being done was wrong. In the other case, I don't remember how many of the upper level folks came from the more technical backgrounds, and how many were from backgrounds which were more in tune with the typical "business suit" mentality. But communications became more unidirectional, incorrect decisions were made, and these companies were gobbled up while many tech folks either left between the mind set in the work environment, or were later tossed overboard in management's attempts to lighten the load to keep from sinking (you don't throw those who are working on bailing out the ship overboard while you are sinking and expect to not sink).

      At this point, the best course of action is to attempt to work your way up the ladder, convincing them with how your IT costs relate directly to making your company money. You don't say what sort of engineering firm, but tying those costs to directly to modeling stress/loads in an architecture engineering firm, the SQA of a software firm, etc... and then looking at options such continuing to use 3yr old (or what ever the figure is) computational systems, and tying the costs of doing so to what your firm does, listing all the pros/cons, and then presenting it up the ladder while addressing the issues raised at each level... While it does not guarantee success, but this is the way you win a battle like this. Lots of details, hard numbers, pros/cons, and facts. Periodically, each of you will be faced with making your own personal evaluations of stay/leave, but such is life. If you are lucky, you will either make it through the storm, or have a way off the ship which keeps you from swimming unexpectedly. If not, you just hope you can swim to shore or to be able to catch hold of a rope dangling off another ship. But regardless, such is life... not all ships can avoid the heavy weather, and you just hope that the ones you are on do not go down with you stuck onboard (and that those at the wheel are smart enough to take the advice of folks like you when you spot a storm off in the distance, or notice that the wind is coming at you from the wrong direction).

      Good luck and may you never be faced with being on a ship where the captain refuses to point the bow off course as required by the weather you are in, and instead only listens to a navigator who continues to point you towards your next port (or worse, having to report through said navigator).

      --
      Helping build UN*X and the Internet since 1981. :)
    5. Re:Welcome to reality by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'd suggest polishing up your resume.

      Totally agreed about the rest of your post, and I think this line is the most important part of all. This company is doomed.

    6. Re:Welcome to reality by greenbird · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sadly the reality of big organisations is that cutting the slack is needed from time to time and usually this does not happen without brutal surgeon that just cuts and cuts and cuts. If patient is relatively healthy and has some luck the lean company can actually be better than before.

      That would be great if they actually cut the slack. From an MBA's perspective R&D and IT are slack. There are no black numbers to directly offset the red numbers therefore it is slack and can be cut. Now the bloated inefficient sales department, they have lots of black numbers so no cutting there. They get bonuses. Sales people continue to to oversell and lie about what can be delivered and then blame IT and R&D for not delivering what they told the sales people couldn't be delivered. Again from an MBA's perspective this is a problem in IT and R&D. The sales were there so the sales department did their job and got huge bonuses. But IT and R&D failed so we cut their salaries and lay them off.

      That's how it works when the bean counters are in charge.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
  2. Presentation by denmarkw00t · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Put together a presentation to show your new director how you spend your monies - judging by your estimates, it's safe to say that you aren't quite sure how your department spends it's money. Put it in graphs, in a spreadsheet, make a chart, whatever you need to in order for your new director to understand where the budget goes. But, if you don't know yourself, you can't defend your stance. Itemize it and break it down, learn where all that $$$$ goes so you can prove that it goes somewhere worthwhile - if it doesn't, propose to cut it, and make changes where you can. You don't have to hit the 50% if you can convince him/her that 1) you aren't wasting money and 2) you can find places to help save money.

    Like a good resume: don't just say what you do or how you do it, but explain why and how it helps the company. "We use these clusters for the larger computations" vs "We use these clusters for larger computations, which save us 30% on time and help boost productivity compared to when we didn't have them" yadda yadda.

  3. Identify and present options for reducing budget by anegg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think I good approach would be to identify and present options to management for reducing that 8% down to 4%. Done honestly, recommending eliminating waste and increasing productivity of higher-priority services, and recommending the elimination of lower priority services altogether, this will give management an understanding of the cost to the organization of reducing the IT budget as requested. It is then up to management to decide whether they want to proceed.

    Approaches that involve trying to tell management that they are wrong, or stupid, or don't know what they are doing aren't likely to go over well with management unless you can identify some factor that management isn't considering (yet). Unless one is in management, its not one's job to make those decisions. It is one's job to provide information to management so that they can make informed decisions.

  4. move them from IT to other engineering costs.. by gl4ss · · Score: 5, Interesting

    seriously, just start labeling your clusters and CAD sw purchases and such as plain engineering costs and not IT.

    start only counting the generic information technology expenses as IT - email and word processing...
    the percentages don't really compare between companies that well - if you were to compare against a firm that doesn't need clusters for engineering calculations for example...

    of course the "right" thing to do would be to get the director to magically understand that you have plenty of engineering costs bundled up with the it budget.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  5. Also by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Show what you'd lose at a 50% cut. Show him the things that they want to have, that would go away if they cut that much. Often people fail to appreciate what a budget is spent on and if it gets explained what they'll have to trade off they'll be more accommodating.

    We may have to do just that where I work. The Dean has been fiddling with the budget again (he's really, really bad at budgeting) and has approved about 33% of our capital budget. He says he'll see if there's more money once the FY starts. Well if not, we are just going to have to make it clear what they don't get to have. Toner will be a big one, we spend almost a third of the budget on that because every professor just HAS to have their own personal printer (this isn't something we get to say no to). Well, those purchases will have to stop, departmental toner purchases only, and then only for academics and business needs. We'll identify the computer labs that are running Windows XP that cannot be upgraded to 7/8 that will need to be shut down next year when updates stop. There will be no new purchases of desktops for anyone unless their computer is just non-functional, no refresh. Etc, etc.

    At that point, he'll likely decide that more budget is needed, and move money around (I haven't looked, but my suspicion is he's giving the advertising group more they are a black hole that always wants more). If not, we'll keep going on what we have, and services will be cut because there won't be the funds for it.

    It can be very effective to not only show people what you give them, but what you won't be able to give them. A 50% cut is huge, that isn't the kind of thing where you "just make do with a little less" or "cut some minor things" that is where major services have to be cut out. Show him what those are. It is easy to say "I want a 50% cut," when you just look at the money side. When you see what you are going to lose, then it is not so easy.

  6. Re:Two questions by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Cutting the IT budget means one of two things - someone is looking for a promotion or the company is going bad.

    Not necessarily. Even quite healthy companies are obsessed with cost cutting these days. The problem is, some management folks can't see that some costs are buying something of extreme value to the company. And they are cutting long term value for short term cost reduction

    In both cases it's time to look around for a new job.

    I take a different approach. Whenever I get higher level management who are out of their waters and inept at the helm, I just batten down the hatches and weather out the storm. They will soon be replaced. This method has never failed me, and I've been at my company for a long time. I've seen good executive move up . . . and bad ones getting the boot.

    A younger colleague was asking me about an executive's plan of growth until 2015. The colleague was concerned that we could not reach this goal. I told him that the executive won't be around in 2015 anyway, and not to worry about it.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  7. Re:Identify and present options for reducing budge by petes_PoV · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The new guy's just messing with them.

    He has come into a new organisation and needs to find out who's who. He needs to identify the competent managers (AKA threats), the lazy ones, and the idiots. A good way to do that is to drop a problem on the organisation, then sit back and see how it plays out. It's more of an exercise in office dynamics than a budgetary cut.

    What the OP needs to do is adopt a similar position. See which teams and departments come out of this change ahead of the game and which ones are the losers. Then make sure he nails his colours to the right mast and wait for the next step up the career ladder.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  8. Re:Toner? In a capital budget? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At the university there are only two kinds of budgets: capital and personnel. We have money for salaries, and money for equipment. Those are the categories. You may disagree with their method for doing it, but it is set by the regents and the state and it not something we control. Basically our personnel budget isn't being reduced, in fact there are small state mandated raises coming. However the equipment budget has only been 33% approved.

    Personally I don't think toner should be an IT item, it should be in the same category as office supplies which is a department budget the business managers have. However, it is in the IT budget and that is that. We don't control it.

    In terms of printers we have little control over that. We aren't like most IT shops where we can tell people what it is. We have to do what they want, by and large. Were it up to me, people wouldn't have personal printers, they'd use the large floor combo copier/printers which have much cheaper consumables on account of being so large. However they don't do that because:

    1) They are lazy.

    2) They use their printers for non-work related uses. We can audit the departmental stuff, not so for the personal stuff.

    You have to remember that universities operate rather differently from companies.

  9. Re:Two questions by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wouldn't leave anything up to luck. It's all calculated long term strategy. And it has worked for 28 years in the same company. Although, I have moved somewhere else in the company, when I decided that one area was doomed.

    In a big, healthy company, it is inevitable that you will get "infected" with a bad manager somewhere, sometime. I see it like a body catching a cold. Instead of "inertia", I like to think of a company as having a "immune system" to combat colds. If the immune system is strong enough, it will be able to get rid of the "cold", the bad manager.

    However, if the top level of management all gets the Ebola virus, the whole company is going to bleed to death with them. I won't stay around if that happens.

    Come back in two years, and ask me if I am still working for the same company . . . and, more importantly, if I have the same middle management, or if I am in a different are of the company. I'm curious myself about that answer!

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!