Cosmic 'Booze' Created In Quantum Brewery

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Cosmic 'Booze' Created In Quantum Brewery

Posted by Unknown on Monday July 1, 2013 @07:07PM from the galaxy-might-have-a-problem dept.

astroengine writes "The intense cold of interstellar space shouldn't be conducive to chemical reactions between methanol and hydroxyl radicals — two molecules that are known to exist in stellar nurseries and cold interstellar clouds — and yet the product of this reaction, methoxy radicals, are found in abundance throughout the universe. What is creating them? In a paper published in the journal Nature Chemistry (abstract), Dwayne Heard and colleagues from the University of Leeds think that interstellar alcohol is undergoing a destruction mechanism facilitated by a weird quantum effect known as tunneling. On encountering hydroxyl radicals, methanol molecules should be repelled by the electrostatic force. But at very low temperatures, when both chemicals are mixed in a cold gaseous state, quantum tunneling becomes extremely efficient at allowing chemical reactions to occur. The researchers write: 'at temperatures relevant to the interstellar medium, almost every collision between methanol and OH (hydroxyl) would result in a successful reaction to form CH3O (methoxy).' What's more, they find that the reaction rate is 50 times higher in the cold interstellar environment than it is at room temperature. 'If our results continue to show a similar increase in the reaction rate at very cold temperatures, then scientists have been severely underestimating the rates of formation and destruction of complex molecules, such as alcohols, in space,' said Heard."

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Good news everyone! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 19:14 · Score: 0

"Hickups!"
Rather look at my brew in the light with Maxwell by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 19:15 · Score: 0

Much more refreshing qubit effect in the cosmos
headache... by jythie · 2013-07-01 19:21 · Score: 4, Insightful

Taking quantum tunneling into account for reactions? pChem just became an even bigger headache then it already was....
Cold chemistry ? by Taco+Cowboy · 2013-07-01 19:21 · Score: 4, Insightful

This finding could led to the development of a new phase in chemistry - very low temperature chemistry
We are led to believe that chemicals get to mix better when temperatures are applied, but from what I read from TFA, that quantum tunneling process, if we can harness it, could save us a lot of energy in the many laboratories / factories all around the world

--
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
1. Re:Cold chemistry ? by cold+fjord · 2013-07-01 19:55 · Score: 1
  
  It isn't just the potential energy savings. It may offer ways to build compounds that aren't feasible to create today since part or all of it may decompose at higher temperatures. I think that is quite interesting. Of course the energy savings could be important in some specialized applications such as synthesis of compounds on space missions, undersea, a few other things I can think of, etc. Depending on the range of reaction temperatures, there may be some very curious possible interactions between chemistry and physics to play with.
  A very interesting result indeed.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
2. Re:Cold chemistry ? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-07-01 20:29 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  This finding could led to the development of a new phase in chemistry - very low temperature chemistry
  We are led to believe that chemicals get to mix better when temperatures are applied, but from what I read from TFA, that quantum tunneling process, if we can harness it, could save us a lot of energy in the many laboratories / factories all around the world
  I suspect that the degree to which heat-pumping to achieve very, very, low temperatures is a pain in the ass(and quite energy intensive) compared to conventional resistive or combustion heating will limit the economy of using it as a replacement for existing high-temperature processes; but there are probably a lot of interesting products that won't form in useful amounts at modest temperature; but won't survive high temperatures. Those could be very promising candidates...
3. Re:Cold chemistry ? by drinkypoo · 2013-07-01 23:08 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I suspect that the degree to which heat-pumping to achieve very, very, low temperatures is a pain in the ass(and quite energy intensive) compared to conventional resistive or combustion heating will limit the economy of using it as a replacement for existing high-temperature processes;
  Right up until we start doing it in orbit. Put a mirror in front of a thing and paint it black...
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
4. Re: Cold chemistry ? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-02 01:12 · Score: 0
  
  Don't you mean paint it white?
  Otherwise, it will absorb heat instead of reflect it.
5. Re:Cold chemistry ? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-02 01:52 · Score: 0
  
  I suspect that the degree to which heat-pumping to achieve very, very, low temperatures is a pain in the ass(and quite energy intensive) compared to conventional resistive or combustion heating will limit the economy
  
  That costs will probably have little to do with the limits in industry as opposed to the incredibly slow reaction rates, some of which may be too slow to even notice in a small lab scale experiment, let alone be used for producing industrial quantities. Industrial chemistry isn't just about minimizing the cost of inputs, but a large part of it is getting a reasonable reaction rate, and enough of a yield. Reactions that are very slow and amount to 99.999% of your reagents this sitting there are not going to be very popular.
  And there is quite a bit of research into low temperature chemistry, mostly dealing with chemicals that are not stable or possible to make at normal temperatures, as opposed to finding new ways to make stuff we have a bunch of methods for already.
6. Re: Cold chemistry ? by drinkypoo · 2013-07-02 01:56 · Score: 1
  
  Don't you mean paint it white?
  Otherwise, it will absorb heat instead of reflect it.
  Are you trolling, or did you fail to read the part about the mirror before replying?
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
7. Re:Cold chemistry ? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-02 03:51 · Score: 0
  
  What about doing these reactions in space? Orbiting chemical factories, especially if the raw materials were harvested from outside our gravity well...
8. Re:Cold chemistry ? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-02 04:22 · Score: 0
  
  Quantum tunneling is not "weird" - it is very common, and occurs at all temperatures, not just at low temperatures. Also, are many reactions which run more slowly with increased temperatures. Old news.
9. Re:Cold chemistry ? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-02 05:00 · Score: 0
  
  Quantum tunneling is not "weird" - it is very common, and occurs at all temperatures, not just at low temperatures.
  If the potential barrier you are interested in is passable by classical particles because thermal energy is larger than the barrier, then you won't get any tunneling over through that barrier (just as evanescent waves disappear and you get real waves instead for the EM analogy). Even in more moderate temperatures where the average thermal energy is not enough to get over the barrier, but there is an energetic tail, there will be a point where the tunneling rate does not compete with the classical processes and it quickly becomes insignificant. So depending on the context, there will be temperatures where the tunneling no longer matters or beyond which it essentially doesn't even occur.
10. Re: Cold chemistry ? by swillden · 2013-07-03 00:27 · Score: 1
  
  Don't you mean paint it white? Otherwise, it will absorb heat instead of reflect it.
  No, black. As well as absorbing energy better, black surfaces also emit energy better. That's actually why the SR-71 Blackbird is black, because the black paint helps it to cool faster.
  The GP mentioned putting a mirror in front of it to block incoming radiant energy, and the black paint would help it radiate.
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Alcohol in space? No news! by aglider · 2013-07-01 19:25 · Score: 2

Wasn't that already brought by Americans (burbon) and Russians (vodaka) back in the space race age?

--
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
1. Re:Alcohol in space? No news! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-02 04:20 · Score: 0
  
  Alcohol is forbidden by Allah. Death to the infidel galaxies!
2. Re:Alcohol in space? No news! by Darinbob · 2013-07-02 06:36 · Score: 1
  
  This is methanol. You're allowed to drink it if you want.
More complex molecules? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 19:27 · Score: 0

So might even RNA/DNA or other kinds of self-reproducing molecules be created that way?
If true, that might have big implications for the Panspermia hypothesis.
1. Re:More complex molecules? by Black+Parrot · 2013-07-01 19:44 · Score: 1
  
  So might even RNA/DNA or other kinds of self-reproducing molecules be created that way?
  If true, that might have big implications for the Panspermia hypothesis.
  Amino acids are found in deep space. IIRC Wikipedia has a list of all the molecules that have been found.
  
  --
  Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
2. Re:More complex molecules? by abies · 2013-07-01 22:12 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  http://www.kurzweilai.net/dna-and-amino-acid-precursor-molecules-discovered-in-interstellar-space
  To be exact, 'precusor' molecules were found so far. They have like half of complexity of what we are talking about, which makes it quite probable that amino acids are out there.
  But there is a far way from single particle of adenine to DNA chain. (a lot, lot further than from single atoms flying in space to group of 7or so atoms in adenine). And then there is a mystery of DNA/RNA replicating with help of cellular structures which themselves are encoded in DNA...
  It is a bit like throwing a CD with cd-ripper program on top of pile of pure silicon wafers, hoping that somehow they will turn into PC with CD drive, read the program and start copying the CD around.
3. Re:More complex molecules? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 23:54 · Score: 1
  
  Nah. You're getting too complicated.
  God is a lush, that's all. Makes sense.
Yep. by loonwings · 2013-07-01 19:33 · Score: 1

That's whatever you're talking about for ya.
Space fuel? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 19:43 · Score: 0

The next question, could this be used as a fuel for long term space travel? Or even just harvested?
1. Re:Space fuel? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-07-01 20:36 · Score: 2
  
  The next question, could this be used as a fuel for long term space travel? Or even just harvested?
  Fortunately for anybody planning on travelling at nontrivial fractions of c, less fortunately for anybody planning on gathering fuel, there just isn't much 'there' there. Some denser regions; but plenty of space with less than an atom per cubic centimeter.
Booze? by Black+Parrot · 2013-07-01 19:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm pretty sure you don't want to use methanol for booze.

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
1. Re:Booze? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 19:59 · Score: 0
  
  Hey, man, five parsecs toward Alpha Centurai when you've run out of spirits and all you have left is mixers, you'll take what you can get.
2. Re:Booze? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 20:41 · Score: 0
  
  ./ editors have a special liver that can process it.
3. Re:Booze? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-07-01 20:59 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  ./ editors have a special liver that can process it.
  If memory serves, the trick to avoiding ill effects with methanol is to not process it. Methanol itself isn't that nasty, with initial effects approximately equivalent to the same amount of ethanol(so you can drink yourself to death; but it takes some work); but you metabolize it into delicious formic acid, which proceeds to do you no good at all. If you can avoid metabolizing it, you'll excrete it reasonably quickly without substantial further harm.
  Fomepizole is the fancy, expensive, science-tastic alcohol dehydrogenase competitive inhibitor; Ethanol is the more common and well loved one.
4. Re:Booze? by oodaloop · 2013-07-01 21:13 · Score: 1
  
  Which explains the quotes around it.
  
  --
  Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
5. Re:Booze? by gl4ss · 2013-07-01 21:34 · Score: 1
  
  ./ editors have a special liver that can process it.
  no they don't.. they don't just care about being blind since they don't read the submissions anyways.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
6. Re:Booze? by sjames · 2013-07-01 23:54 · Score: 1
  
  So, what'll it be? For $1000 we can give you an IV or we can keep you drunk on top shelf vodka for a fraction of that.
7. Re:Booze? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-07-02 00:17 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know if Fomepizole is superior on some respects to ethanol(lower toxicity, say, allowing you to saturate the patient more heavily); but that's my impression of why it isn't more popular. Now, as any number of contaminated-rotgut-itis demonstrate, just mixing some ethanol with your methanol isn't necessarily good enough to save you; but it apparently can be done correctly.
8. Re:Booze? by sjames · 2013-07-02 00:58 · Score: 1
  
  I think the problem with the rotgut is that the ethanol clears your system before the methanol is gone.
  To the best of my armchair physician knowledge (I am not a doctor nor do I play one on TV) the onl;y advantage is that it doesn't make you drunk.
9. Re:Booze? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-02 02:17 · Score: 0
  
  the onl;y advantage is that it doesn't make you drunk.
  If you are drinking to get drunk, you'll not consider that as an advantage.
10. Re:Booze? by TheCarp · 2013-07-02 03:27 · Score: 2
  
  > I think the problem with the rotgut is that the ethanol clears your system before the methanol is gone.
  I don't think there is that much methanol in rotgut.
  I did some looking into distilling a while back. Fermented liquid contains a number of chemicals, including entirely other alcohols, mostly in small enough quantities to not be worth talking about. However, when distilling, these tend to be concentrated. The main difference between "rot gut" and the good stuff is in how well controlled that process is in its ability to control how much of that other stuff is kept or discarded.
  From wikipedia entry on Whisky:
  
  The flavouring of whisky is partially determined by the presence of congeners and fusel oils. Fusel oils are higher alcohols than ethanol, are mildly toxic, and have a strong, disagreeable smell and taste. An excess of fusel oils in whisky is considered a defect.
  Note only an excess is considered a defect.
  Methanol however was, in the past, added to illegal alcohols to make them more potent; but the point is, it was added intentionally. Unlike lead and glycol contamination which was the result of using old radiators from homes or cars as the condenser for the still.
  
  --
  "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
11. Re:Booze? by Black+Parrot · 2013-07-02 04:02 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know if Fomepizole is superior on some respects to ethanol(lower toxicity, say, allowing you to saturate the patient more heavily); but that's my impression of why it isn't more popular.
  I can think of another reason something called "foam pizzle" wouldn't be a popular drink.
  
  --
  Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Strongbad knew this years ago... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 19:58 · Score: 0

"The ONEitude is directly proportional to the Colditude of the ONE."
Reference: http://www.hrwiki.org/wiki/property_of_ones
This one's on me.... by andrewa · 2013-07-01 20:01 · Score: 1

Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster anyone?

--
:(){ :|:& };:
What if... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 20:01 · Score: 0

The universe is just the puke of a drunk alien that has a size completely off our scales of measure?
ooh.. i get it by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 20:48 · Score: 0

"booze" ??? good one.
In space, by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 22:51 · Score: 0

no one can hear your barf.
lots of Bender... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 23:38 · Score: 0

Lots of Bender asteroids. Much like putting a million monkeys on typewriters and hoping for Shakespeare, we put a million Benders in space and hope for god.
Woah, a working ZPE application ? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-01 23:48 · Score: 0

Isn't this the first practical application of the zero point energy field ?
I'm not drunk! by TheSpoom · 2013-07-02 00:10 · Score: 1

I'm exploring the galaxy.

--
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
News for Luddites? by khchung · 2013-07-02 01:21 · Score: 1

weird quantum effect known as tunneling
Is this news for nerds, or news for Luddites? If you think tunneling is "weird" instead of just "fact of life", you don't belong here in /.

--
Oliver.
1. Re:News for Luddites? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-02 02:39 · Score: 0
  
  Plenty of physicists I know consider various effects in quantum mechanics to be weird, some of them even work particle physics and condensed matter research. It hasn't prevented them from succeeding at a job requiring heavy use of quantum mechanics, and isn't mutually exclusive with view said effects as being matter of fact. If anything, such a view helps contribute to their ability relate their work to those without intuition of how such things work and to teach such subjects, even at the formal level.
2. Re:News for Luddites? by Lithdren · 2013-07-02 03:49 · Score: 1
  
  Pretty sure something can be considered 'weird' and still a 'fact of life'.
  It's weird because its not something you would expect to be true, on a scale we normally work with such a thing is impossible.
  Seems like the only one who doesn't belong here in slashdot, is you.
And on the 7th day.. by haapi · 2013-07-02 02:41 · Score: 1

..God rested. And, obviously wanted a cold one, just like those made in His image.
Q.E.D. the universe is laced with booze.
Any other questions Intelligent Design can answer for you?
Thnxbyeseeya.

--
Well, apparently, you only have to fool the majority of people for a little while.
A lot of free fuel? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-02 04:02 · Score: 0

Just sayin'...
Cheap way to get drunk? by einyen · 2013-07-02 06:43 · Score: 1

About 20 years ago my high school chemistry teacher claimed that if you showed up at the emergency room and said you had been drinking methanol, they would actually give you a shot of ethanol ("normal" alcohol) as a treatment. Apparantly the body breaks down ethanol before methanol allowing the methanol to pass through without causing damage.