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Cosmic 'Booze' Created In Quantum Brewery

Posted by Unknown on from the galaxy-might-have-a-problem dept.

astroengine writes "The intense cold of interstellar space shouldn't be conducive to chemical reactions between methanol and hydroxyl radicals — two molecules that are known to exist in stellar nurseries and cold interstellar clouds — and yet the product of this reaction, methoxy radicals, are found in abundance throughout the universe. What is creating them? In a paper published in the journal Nature Chemistry (abstract), Dwayne Heard and colleagues from the University of Leeds think that interstellar alcohol is undergoing a destruction mechanism facilitated by a weird quantum effect known as tunneling. On encountering hydroxyl radicals, methanol molecules should be repelled by the electrostatic force. But at very low temperatures, when both chemicals are mixed in a cold gaseous state, quantum tunneling becomes extremely efficient at allowing chemical reactions to occur. The researchers write: 'at temperatures relevant to the interstellar medium, almost every collision between methanol and OH (hydroxyl) would result in a successful reaction to form CH3O (methoxy).' What's more, they find that the reaction rate is 50 times higher in the cold interstellar environment than it is at room temperature. 'If our results continue to show a similar increase in the reaction rate at very cold temperatures, then scientists have been severely underestimating the rates of formation and destruction of complex molecules, such as alcohols, in space,' said Heard."

29 of 52 comments (clear)

  1. headache... by jythie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Taking quantum tunneling into account for reactions? pChem just became an even bigger headache then it already was....

  2. Cold chemistry ? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This finding could led to the development of a new phase in chemistry - very low temperature chemistry

    We are led to believe that chemicals get to mix better when temperatures are applied, but from what I read from TFA, that quantum tunneling process, if we can harness it, could save us a lot of energy in the many laboratories / factories all around the world

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Cold chemistry ? by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      It isn't just the potential energy savings. It may offer ways to build compounds that aren't feasible to create today since part or all of it may decompose at higher temperatures. I think that is quite interesting. Of course the energy savings could be important in some specialized applications such as synthesis of compounds on space missions, undersea, a few other things I can think of, etc. Depending on the range of reaction temperatures, there may be some very curious possible interactions between chemistry and physics to play with.

      A very interesting result indeed.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    2. Re:Cold chemistry ? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This finding could led to the development of a new phase in chemistry - very low temperature chemistry

      We are led to believe that chemicals get to mix better when temperatures are applied, but from what I read from TFA, that quantum tunneling process, if we can harness it, could save us a lot of energy in the many laboratories / factories all around the world

      I suspect that the degree to which heat-pumping to achieve very, very, low temperatures is a pain in the ass(and quite energy intensive) compared to conventional resistive or combustion heating will limit the economy of using it as a replacement for existing high-temperature processes; but there are probably a lot of interesting products that won't form in useful amounts at modest temperature; but won't survive high temperatures. Those could be very promising candidates...

    3. Re:Cold chemistry ? by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suspect that the degree to which heat-pumping to achieve very, very, low temperatures is a pain in the ass(and quite energy intensive) compared to conventional resistive or combustion heating will limit the economy of using it as a replacement for existing high-temperature processes;

      Right up until we start doing it in orbit. Put a mirror in front of a thing and paint it black...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re: Cold chemistry ? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Don't you mean paint it white?
      Otherwise, it will absorb heat instead of reflect it.

      Are you trolling, or did you fail to read the part about the mirror before replying?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re: Cold chemistry ? by swillden · · Score: 1

      Don't you mean paint it white? Otherwise, it will absorb heat instead of reflect it.

      No, black. As well as absorbing energy better, black surfaces also emit energy better. That's actually why the SR-71 Blackbird is black, because the black paint helps it to cool faster.

      The GP mentioned putting a mirror in front of it to block incoming radiant energy, and the black paint would help it radiate.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  3. Alcohol in space? No news! by aglider · · Score: 2

    Wasn't that already brought by Americans (burbon) and Russians (vodaka) back in the space race age?

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
    1. Re:Alcohol in space? No news! by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      This is methanol. You're allowed to drink it if you want.

  4. Yep. by loonwings · · Score: 1

    That's whatever you're talking about for ya.

  5. Re:More complex molecules? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

    So might even RNA/DNA or other kinds of self-reproducing molecules be created that way?
    If true, that might have big implications for the Panspermia hypothesis.

    Amino acids are found in deep space. IIRC Wikipedia has a list of all the molecules that have been found.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  6. Booze? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm pretty sure you don't want to use methanol for booze.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:Booze? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Informative

      ./ editors have a special liver that can process it.

      If memory serves, the trick to avoiding ill effects with methanol is to not process it. Methanol itself isn't that nasty, with initial effects approximately equivalent to the same amount of ethanol(so you can drink yourself to death; but it takes some work); but you metabolize it into delicious formic acid, which proceeds to do you no good at all. If you can avoid metabolizing it, you'll excrete it reasonably quickly without substantial further harm.

      Fomepizole is the fancy, expensive, science-tastic alcohol dehydrogenase competitive inhibitor; Ethanol is the more common and well loved one.

    2. Re:Booze? by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      Which explains the quotes around it.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    3. Re:Booze? by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      ./ editors have a special liver that can process it.

      no they don't.. they don't just care about being blind since they don't read the submissions anyways.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:Booze? by sjames · · Score: 1

      So, what'll it be? For $1000 we can give you an IV or we can keep you drunk on top shelf vodka for a fraction of that.

    5. Re:Booze? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I don't know if Fomepizole is superior on some respects to ethanol(lower toxicity, say, allowing you to saturate the patient more heavily); but that's my impression of why it isn't more popular. Now, as any number of contaminated-rotgut-itis demonstrate, just mixing some ethanol with your methanol isn't necessarily good enough to save you; but it apparently can be done correctly.

    6. Re:Booze? by sjames · · Score: 1

      I think the problem with the rotgut is that the ethanol clears your system before the methanol is gone.

      To the best of my armchair physician knowledge (I am not a doctor nor do I play one on TV) the onl;y advantage is that it doesn't make you drunk.

    7. Re:Booze? by TheCarp · · Score: 2

      > I think the problem with the rotgut is that the ethanol clears your system before the methanol is gone.

      I don't think there is that much methanol in rotgut.

      I did some looking into distilling a while back. Fermented liquid contains a number of chemicals, including entirely other alcohols, mostly in small enough quantities to not be worth talking about. However, when distilling, these tend to be concentrated. The main difference between "rot gut" and the good stuff is in how well controlled that process is in its ability to control how much of that other stuff is kept or discarded.

      From wikipedia entry on Whisky:

      The flavouring of whisky is partially determined by the presence of congeners and fusel oils. Fusel oils are higher alcohols than ethanol, are mildly toxic, and have a strong, disagreeable smell and taste. An excess of fusel oils in whisky is considered a defect.

      Note only an excess is considered a defect.

      Methanol however was, in the past, added to illegal alcohols to make them more potent; but the point is, it was added intentionally. Unlike lead and glycol contamination which was the result of using old radiators from homes or cars as the condenser for the still.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    8. Re:Booze? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      I don't know if Fomepizole is superior on some respects to ethanol(lower toxicity, say, allowing you to saturate the patient more heavily); but that's my impression of why it isn't more popular.

      I can think of another reason something called "foam pizzle" wouldn't be a popular drink.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  7. This one's on me.... by andrewa · · Score: 1

    Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster anyone?

    --
    :(){ :|:& };:
  8. Re:Space fuel? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    The next question, could this be used as a fuel for long term space travel? Or even just harvested?

    Fortunately for anybody planning on travelling at nontrivial fractions of c, less fortunately for anybody planning on gathering fuel, there just isn't much 'there' there. Some denser regions; but plenty of space with less than an atom per cubic centimeter.

  9. Re:More complex molecules? by abies · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.kurzweilai.net/dna-and-amino-acid-precursor-molecules-discovered-in-interstellar-space

    To be exact, 'precusor' molecules were found so far. They have like half of complexity of what we are talking about, which makes it quite probable that amino acids are out there.

    But there is a far way from single particle of adenine to DNA chain. (a lot, lot further than from single atoms flying in space to group of 7or so atoms in adenine). And then there is a mystery of DNA/RNA replicating with help of cellular structures which themselves are encoded in DNA...

    It is a bit like throwing a CD with cd-ripper program on top of pile of pure silicon wafers, hoping that somehow they will turn into PC with CD drive, read the program and start copying the CD around.

  10. Re:More complex molecules? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Nah. You're getting too complicated.

    God is a lush, that's all. Makes sense.

  11. I'm not drunk! by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

    I'm exploring the galaxy.

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
  12. News for Luddites? by khchung · · Score: 1

    weird quantum effect known as tunneling

    Is this news for nerds, or news for Luddites? If you think tunneling is "weird" instead of just "fact of life", you don't belong here in /.

    --
    Oliver.
    1. Re:News for Luddites? by Lithdren · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure something can be considered 'weird' and still a 'fact of life'.

      It's weird because its not something you would expect to be true, on a scale we normally work with such a thing is impossible.

      Seems like the only one who doesn't belong here in slashdot, is you.

  13. And on the 7th day.. by haapi · · Score: 1

    ..God rested. And, obviously wanted a cold one, just like those made in His image.
    Q.E.D. the universe is laced with booze.

    Any other questions Intelligent Design can answer for you?
    Thnxbyeseeya.

    --
    Well, apparently, you only have to fool the majority of people for a little while.
  14. Cheap way to get drunk? by einyen · · Score: 1

    About 20 years ago my high school chemistry teacher claimed that if you showed up at the emergency room and said you had been drinking methanol, they would actually give you a shot of ethanol ("normal" alcohol) as a treatment. Apparantly the body breaks down ethanol before methanol allowing the methanol to pass through without causing damage.