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Progress On the Open Laptop

Posted by Soulskill on from the does-it-run-crysis-yet? dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Last October, we discussed Andrew 'bunnie' Huang's effort to build a complete open hardware laptop, called the Novena. bunnie has now posted a progress report on the laptop's design and construction, showing the latest revision of the board, the display, and a hack to use it as a secure router. bunnie says, 'At the end of the day, we're having fun building the laptop we always wanted — it's now somewhere between a python-scriptable oscilloscope, logic analyzer, and a laptop. I think it will be an indispensable tool for hacking, particularly for doing signal analysis which requires coordination across multiple protocol layers, complex trigger conditions and/or feedback stimulus loops. As for the inevitable question about if these will be sold, and for how muchonce we're done building the system (and, "done" is a moving target — really, the whole idea is this is continuously under development and improving) I'll make it available to qualified buyers. Because it's open-source and a bit quirky, I'm shy on the idea of just selling it to anyone who comes along wanting a laptop. I'm worried about buyers who don't understand that "open" also means a bit of DIY hacking to get things working, and that things are continuously under development."

57 comments

  1. Re:Reddit by pecosdave · · Score: 1

    Great - now go there and stay.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  2. Wasn't there already a free laptop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The one that richard stallman used? Or was it like custom made or something?

    1. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 2

      The one that richard stallman used? Or was it like custom made or something?

      This one has a fairly decent display at 2560x1700 (should that be 1600?), unlike the crappy 1024x600 that Stallman finds acceptable.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    2. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by rasmusbr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, I think Stallman's laptop just happened to have a free BIOS. IIRC Stallman does not think that free hardware is nearly as important as free software. This is a an open/free source hardware design meaning that anyone could theoretically grab the design files, do whatever changes they want and then start producing the board.

      The integrated circuits are for the most part closed designs of course. If you want to design a completely and utterly open laptop you must first design an open universe...

    3. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      You can get a bit closer by using FPGAs.

    4. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      True, you can get a lot more open in terms of intellectual content or intellectual property by using FPGA:s.

      You are still writing ones and zeros to memories with an FPGA and you are still dependent on a proprietary part, but those ones and zeroes can have a much more radical impact on how the machine works if it is based around an FPGA than if it is based around a hard CPU.

    5. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And those open CPUs too.

      Doubt Intel or AMD CPUs count as open.

    6. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > You can get a bit closer by using FPGAs. ... of which only the equivalent to a CPU's instruction set is known, and the rest is top secret. Even the official documentation is free to download but with draconian terms attached. Heck, I wouldn't even have dared start something like the PacoBlaze (free PicoBlaze clone) for fear of being sued into oblivion.

      Really, the EULAs of the software world are nothing against the legal crap piles from the hardware world.

    7. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is an open x86, complete with vHDL for support components like ethernet and video, but you can also choose mips, sparc, arm, etc... I hate to use the term, but think outside the box.

    8. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Realistically at some point you will have to rely on some large companies 'stuff' to get the job done. But at least if you push it down a few levels by using FPGAs you have mitigated the risk pretty well.

      Sure if you are hard core you could go down a level or 2 even further ( or even make your own discrete vacuum tubes.. ), but we wouldn't be talking hardware that was anywhere near current levels and would pretty much remain a toy, and be the size of your fridge.

    9. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      If you've written the FPGA logic in a standard language like Verilog, then there's not much keeping you from moving the code between different FPGA chips, or even chips from different vendors.

      Of course, the idea of using FPGAs in a laptop seems rather silly to me; the whole point of having a laptop is to have something small which can be powered by a battery for a reasonable length of time. Using FPGAs instead of real ASICs and CPUs would drastically lower your run time. You might as well give up on the laptop idea if you're going to do that, and just make your own FPGA-based mini/microATX/miniITX motherboard and use standard desktop parts instead. Then you can plug in any monitor you want, and most of the other parts are commodity as well.

    10. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by unixisc · · Score: 1

      There is the Open RISC platform, which is under GPL. It's essentially the HDL code of a MIPS variant that can be used on FPGAs. So if one built a computer - probably not a laptop - using that, then the hardware would be open as well if all the chips on the PCB were programmable i.e. either FPGA or Flash.

      Although I do wonder whether anybody, no matter how good at Verilog or VHDL, would try to reprogram the FPGAs on the card and redefine the interfaces b/w the parts? That would be the underlying point to having it open in the first place. Otherwise, once such a design is frozen, spin out ASICs based on that code, and optimize the power consumption vs performance.

      The point about free hardware being less important - once un-programmable parts are used in a platform, there goes the idea of doing anything w/ the GNU's Freedom 3 - the right to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, 'so that the whole community benefits'. At that point, there is little difference b/w that, and a closed source hardware platform made up of unalterable parts. Yeah, most vendors may publish their specs, but that's not the same as giving a piece of hardware that can be altered any way one likes.

    11. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can buy a used laptop for $100 that you can surf the web with, do word processing and spreadsheets, etc.

    12. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      The FPGA is intended to make this a good hacking tool, rather then a replacement for basic common components.

      The idea here seems to be most definitely to make the kind of laptop we always wish we had from the movies - got some wires, want to see what's going on? A few twisted splices and you're looking at signal traces directly.

    13. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I recall correctly Microsoft is the free (or almost free) hardware champion so their software pricing didn't seem as painful. That's been some years back but that seemed the point of the statement I read although not worded as bluntly.

    14. Re:Wasn't there already a free laptop by AditiKumer · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure this meets the standard criteria for a laptop these days. That doesn't mean it isn't a valid, useful device, but if you think about the things most people buy a laptop to *do*, they're going to be secondary to the function of this machine. When you say "Laptop" people think "Sophisticated operating system, wide range of available software, media player, useful for software development, gaming machine (maybe), interfaces with wide range of modern portable devices, etc). This sounds like it's got a rather different set of capabilities in mind. Apple probably wouldn't like "HackBook", but it seems to fit better. http://bastcomputer.blogspot.com/">please visit it

  3. Re:Reddit by jones_supa · · Score: 1

    The sites cannot be directly compared. Reddit is a pure message board, Slashdot a news aggregator. I use both.

  4. Is this actually a laptop? by Dputiger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm not sure this meets the standard criteria for a laptop these days. That doesn't mean it isn't a valid, useful device, but if you think about the things most people buy a laptop to *do*, they're going to be secondary to the function of this machine. When you say "Laptop" people think "Sophisticated operating system, wide range of available software, media player, useful for software development, gaming machine (maybe), interfaces with wide range of modern portable devices, etc).

    This sounds like it's got a rather different set of capabilities in mind. Apple probably wouldn't like "HackBook", but it seems to fit better.

    1. Re:Is this actually a laptop? by rbprbp · · Score: 1

      Linux and most open-source software runs on it. That's pretty much enough for most DIY hackers. Besides, I think that this board would be useful for other applications (robotics, signal processing, etc...) or just as a cheap way of hacking ARM + FPGA.

      --
      They're there in their room. You're on your own.
    2. Re:Is this actually a laptop? by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      it's more like a general arm board with fpga than a "laptop".

      I can see quite a bit of usability for it. just not any as a laptop.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  5. does it have the GPU power for that size? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    and video ram for it?

    1. Re:does it have the GPU power for that size? by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 2

      Did you bother to RTFA?
      It says: "We’re now using an LG LP129QE: 12.85, 2560 x 1700 pixels (239ppi), with a 24-bit color depth. It looks gorgeous."

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    2. Re:does it have the GPU power for that size? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      but what video chip??

      The GMA chips in some apple systems can't really keep with the retina displays.

    3. Re:does it have the GPU power for that size? by Narishma · · Score: 1

      It uses an ARM SoC with a Vivante GPU.

      --
      Mada mada dane.
  6. Re:Reddit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like counterstrike was to quake, reddit is for people who can't handle slashdot.

  7. Re:Reddit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not that hard. So if you can't, you're not really this site's target audience. You might be better served on reddit..or maybe muffington boast (like OMG!).

  8. Qualified Buyer by mfwitten · · Score: 1

    What an outrageous notion! The only qualification is that one is willing to trade for it; who are you to determine that for someone else?

    1. Re:Qualified Buyer by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      "one is willing to trade for it"

      It takes two to trade, no? As the one currently holding the object, he can decide whether or not he is willing to trade. If he isn't, it doesn't much matter if you are...

    2. Re:Qualified Buyer by Stewie241 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It sounds like it is more about making sure that the buyer is absolutely clear about what she/he is getting. Qualifying buyers means you can at least have a conversation where the purchaser says 'I know there are going to be a *lot* of rough edges and I'm okay with major functionality possibly not working'. Otherwise, you end up with buyers who see the word open and rush to buy it perhaps without realizing what they were getting.

      Maybe this fear is founded, maybe it isn't. But I don't see it as being completely unreasonable.

    3. Re:Qualified Buyer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you know why it's called the "Novena," right?

      You have to spend nine days in prayer before it works right.

      -almitydave

  9. Re:Reddit by dfghjk · · Score: 2

    "The sites cannot be directly compared. Reddit is a pure message board, Slashdot a news aggregator."

    For sites that can't be directly compared, you sure did a rather direct job.

  10. I have a question for Stallman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As soon as this laptop is released and he gets one, will he start trolling to the 99.999999% percent of the people that still don't use open source hardware?

  11. maddog and bunnie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what happens if maddog and bunnie are locked into a room together?

  12. Strange definition of open by OzPeter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm shy on the idea of just selling it to anyone who comes along wanting a laptop. I'm worried about buyers who don't understand that "open" also means a bit of DIY hacking to get things working, and that things are continuously under development.

    I use "open" software all the time and I certainly don't do any DIY hacking to get it running and keep it running. So why does this "open" hardware have such a different interpretation? I can only surmise that "open" is actually being used as a synonym of "incomplete".

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    1. Re:Strange definition of open by Techman83 · · Score: 1

      I use "open" software all the time and I certainly don't do any DIY hacking to get it running and keep it running. So why does this "open" hardware have such a different interpretation? I can only surmise that "open" is actually being used as a synonym of "incomplete".

      The primary difference being, people have different expectations when it comes to something they laid done a decent some of money for. If you download a project that doesn't work and don't know how to diagnose it, you move on. Drop a $1000+ on some hardware and don't possess the skills to work it out , you may feel quite differently. No amount of initial expectation setting can change that when it involves someones hard earned money. We've seen that with Kickstarter, you are told upfront that you are investing in a product that isn't in production yet and people get upset when things don't pan out as planned.

      However all of the above doesn't make this project less open, you are still free to take those designs, source the parts and build one yourself. Bunnie explained that he wants to hack hardware, not spend his time doing end user support for people that didn't understand what they were buying. I don't think that's unreasonable.

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i cat
      Damn, my RAM is full of cats. MEOW!!
  13. Amy Wong! by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 1

    Did anyone else notice that the screen in the router case photo has a partially obscured Futurama video playing?

    --


    "Lame" - Galaxar
    1. Re:Amy Wong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did anyone else notice that the screen in the router case photo has a partially obscured Futurama video playing?

      Yes, we did. And not even your afirmative fair-use defense will save you now! -- FOX

  14. A Python Scripted Oscilloscope? by NReitzel · · Score: 2

    I couldn't help notice the line calling this (among other things) a python-scripted oscilloscope.

    As an engineer, let me say, "To heck with the laptop bit, where do I sign up and buy one?"

    Daughter boards. WiFi (if you must), Bluetooth (if you must), and Analog Channels, Bay-Bee!

    --

    Don't take life too seriously; it isn't permanent.

    1. Re:A Python Scripted Oscilloscope? by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      Mhmm... Hands above the covers!

      If the analog performance of this thing can be made halfway decent this guy may have the beginnings of a small business.

    2. Re:A Python Scripted Oscilloscope? by cachimaster · · Score: 1

      Most modern digital oscilloscopes have USB interfaces and are controllable with C or a python api. For example, Rigol scopes have python drivers since some years ago.

    3. Re:A Python Scripted Oscilloscope? by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      As an engineer, let me say, "I'll make my own laptop! With blackjack and hookers! In fact, forget the laptop."

      FTFY.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  15. Re:Reddit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, he described them. Take the following two sentences:

    An elephant has large ears.
    A mouse has a long tail.

    These are descriptive sentences, coherent independent of each other, and display no attempt at comparative analysis.

  16. Re:Reddit by Hentes · · Score: 1

    Well, it's still nice that you bothered to sign up so you could tell this to us.

  17. Re:Reddit by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    Except that this is exactly what he didn't do. Your analogy would be fine if he said something like "Reddit uses Javascript. Slashdot uses comment trees." Both statements correct, but none of them indicating any similarities or differences between the two. But when you describe Reddit as a "pure message board" and Slashdot as a "news aggregator", I think it's safe to say that one of the things that come to most people's mind that it indicates a difference in the sense that Reddit is probably going to have a significantly higher proportion of user-generated (primary) contents (not just links with summaries).

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  18. I'll need to sleep w/ my hands above the blankets by vikingpower · · Score: 1

    Fucking engineer's fucking wet fucking dream, this

    --
    Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
  19. Lemote? by ikhider · · Score: 1

    I thought Lemote already achived this, or no? Stallman uses a Lemote and claims it is completely open...right down to the BIOS

    --
    "SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
  20. Re:Lemote +BLOBS ...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a Yeelong Lemote laptop .. and it is not entirely free .. so no completely free Laptop/Netbook/Notebook exists..

    it runs on the gNewSense 3.0 Parkes O/s :: http://h-node.org/notebooks/catalogue/en/1/1/Lemote/undef/undef/undef/undef/undef/undef/undef

    Stallman himself even recognises that there are "BLOBS" in the source code .. so it ain't free and he is a walking contradiction.

  21. Re:Reddit by Inda · · Score: 1

    It's that "pure message board" that some of us have missed over the years. Any subject, any level of detail, alternative accounts welcomed (we love the AC here, we love the alt-accounts there), the RES Firefox add-on (thought Firefox was a memory hog? Use this add-on and see the magic smoke in action), cats, cats, more cats and don't subscribe to the cat memes.

    I like the long posts on there. Before finding Reddit, it had been a while since I spent a whole evening reading people's comments, something I used to do on Slashdot many moons ago. It's made the internet interesting again.

    The doxxing is bad though and that needs to stop before real people get really hurt.

    --
    This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
  22. Cool by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 1

    So when you want a generic shitty OEM laptop that just isn't shitty enough, go open source with it.

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
  23. Professional web design & development service by wilsonlink · · Score: 1

    Professional Web design & development company service UK, Our Services is Web design service, Web Development service, SEO Annalist, social media marketing, Email marketing services etc. My Company Name is iDragon Tech LTD. My company website Link: http://idragontech.co.uk/services

  24. laptop by RatanGharami · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure this meets the standard criteria for a laptop these days. That doesn't mean it isn't a valid, useful device, but if you think about the things most people buy a laptop to *do*, they're going to be secondary to the function of this machine. When you say "Laptop" people think "Sophisticated operating system, wide range of available software, media player, useful for software development, gaming machine (maybe), interfaces with wide range of modern portable devices, etc). This sounds like it's got a rather different set of capabilities in mind. Apple probably wouldn't like "HackBook", but it seems to fit better. Reply to This Share http://equipmentbds.blogspot.com/">please visit it