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The Dangers of Beating Your Kickstarter Goal

jfruh writes "In March of 2012 legendary game designers Tim Schafer and Ron Gilbert ran a Kickstarter to design a new adventure game, asked for $400,000, and came away with more than $3.3 million. Their promised delivery date was October 2012. Now it's July 2013, and the project still needs cash, which they plan to raise by selling an 'early release' version on Steam in January 2014. One possible lesson: radically overshooting your crowdfunding goal can cause you to wildly expand your ambitions, leading to a project that can't be tamed."

46 of 168 comments (clear)

  1. Ah... by dyingtolive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Surely you mean "The Dangers of Overextending the Scope of Your Project Beyond What Resource Allocations Allows".

    I guess that's not scary enough though.

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    1. Re:Ah... by Flozzin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You would have thought though, that before they wildly expanded in order to spend 8 times what you wanted in funding, you would deliver on your core game.

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    2. Re:Ah... by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think it was Nicholas Meyer (of Star Trek II fame) who said "art thrives on limitations" and time and again we have seen that, you get a big budget and you go overboard and end up with a mess. Maybe in the future others will learn and set some sort of upper limit on their kickstarter?

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    3. Re:Ah... by SJHillman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I always enjoyed games that had a good core and then released expansion packs later that actually expanded on the game. It was almost like getting two great games. Total Annihilation was good, Core Contingency made it better. Diablo II was good. Lord of Destruction made it better (although in this case, the expansion was essential to actually finishing the storyline). StarCraft was good, Brood War made it better. It seems expansions that really expanded the game died out around ten years ago. Since then, expansions are more like content packs - they tend to just add more of the same.

    4. Re:Ah... by sjpadbury · · Score: 3, Informative

      Someone hasn't looked at Civilization V, then.
      Civ V was good.
      Gods and Kings made it better.
      Brave New World (releases in about 4 hours for me) according to reviews is making it even better still.

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    5. Re: Ah... by iamhassi · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes TA is great but what's with the system requirements? 64 megabytes for the larger maps is outrageous! ;)

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    6. Re:Ah... by Seizurebleak · · Score: 2

      Can't fuckin' wait. I usually prefer the more peaceful victory conditions and it sounds like brave new world is gonna deliver.

    7. Re:Ah... by mjwx · · Score: 3

      I think the armies are the biggest improvement by far from iv to v. No longer stacking units allows you to actually place your units in strategic locations (spearmen defending archers, etc).

      Actually Civ 5 allows more of this. Spearmen sit in front of your archers, archers shoot over the spearmen. This and cities that can attack make it a game of turtles. Forget any other strategy.

      Add to this the fact the AI is crap and you have the reason I still play Civ 4.

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  2. This just in.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    Project costs way more than expected. News at 11.

    1. Re:This just in.... by Arkh89 · · Score: 4, Funny

      --- a/Message
      +++ b/Message
      - Project costs way more than expected. News at 11.
      +People are not able to forecast accurately costs of a project (time, money, etc.). News at 11.

    2. Re:This just in.... by moronoxyd · · Score: 2

      When the Kickstarter brought in more money then asked for the scope of the project was expanded. Unfortunately, it was expanded a little to much.

    3. Re:This just in.... by dingen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People keep saying this, but would you really have been happy if they had stuck to the 400k project and kept the rest of the money on their bank account?

      Obviously, the increased budget has allowed them to expand the project. This is a good thing, it means the money people put in is actually used on the game. More money = more game.

      So unfortunately, the bigger game they are making now has gone over budget. It's really no big deal, as they have found a good solution, which is to release part of the game early in order to generate income to finish the rest of the game. They're not asking for more money, they are simply adjusting the release schedule.

      Projects going over budget are a fact of life. These things happen all the time. The only reason we're hearing about it at all is because it's a crowdfunded project and the crowd has a right to know what is happening with their money. But don't think other games you are playing were finished on time and within the projected budget, because they're not.

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  3. Another possible lesson by Hentes · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Only buy a finished product unless you have money to burn.

    1. Re:Another possible lesson by fredprado · · Score: 2

      Even if this lesson was something worth to be learned it wouldn't be learned from this example as the people who financed it on Kickstarter will have their product in the end, mismanagements aside.

    2. Re:Another possible lesson by Flozzin · · Score: 2

      This is what I am doing. Yes, some corporate games suck, but I don't have money to blow funding someones pet project. Plus I don't know what I will be doing years from now. Maybe I gave up gaming altogether. Maybe they drastically change their concept to something I don't want. Maybe, they just flat out lie(WarZ).

      You can give to kickstarter groups. I've been screwed before, thanks.

      --
      "Cowardice in a race, as in an individual, is the unpardonable sin." --Teddy Roosevelt
    3. Re:Another possible lesson by Sir_Sri · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Kinda.

      Kickstarter is a lesson to investors and publishers etc. that there is money available for things they didn't think there was a market for. If no one funded star citizen or project eternity or the like then we would go another 10 years without good space combat games and isometric RPG's. As it is we'll probably see a lot, some of which will suck (and some of which will be the kickstarted projects unfortunately), but the 'product' you're buying on kickstarter is really paying to create a genre or a product family or the like. Sure, you might get star citizen or some adventure game that *might* be good. But expectations are high on those. I'll be happy if funding star citizen means one of the big guys picks up on 'space sims can make money again? Hurray!' XWing vs Tie Fighter 2015' or whatever.

    4. Re:Another possible lesson by Hentes · · Score: 2

      How do you know that?

    5. Re:Another possible lesson by jordanjay29 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Reality check: not every project that succeeds on Kickstarter delivers a final product.

    6. Re:Another possible lesson by fredprado · · Score: 2

      Firstly because he has a name that is worth a lot more than what he took so he has all the interest in the word in delivering the game.

      Secondly because his company managed to deliver several games already, so he is obviously capable of doing so.

      And last but not least because he already announced a solution. He will deliver the game in two parts. The first part will be available at about the expected date and the sells will be used to finance the second time. Kickstarter backers and whoever buys the first part will receive the second part for free when it is ready.

  4. Bad Planning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'It's a bad plan that can't be changed' – Publilius Syrus c.100 BC

    Release the core game as it was intended on time and add the extras (in game, ports to other platforms, whatever...) later.

    This needs to be planned for Kickstarters from, well, before the start. Because you might get more money than anticipated, but not more time.

    1. Re:Bad Planning by Teancum · · Score: 2

      Release the core game as it was intended on time and add the extras (in game, ports to other platforms, whatever...) later.

      This needs to be planned for Kickstarters from, well, before the start. Because you might get more money than anticipated, but not more time.

      This is so true. I know some people with a successful Kickstarter campaign begin to get caught up in the hype and promise the Moon and anything else they can think up in order to keep the ball rolling. They really shouldn't get caught up in the hype, other than to be promising minor cosmetic things or as suggested promise that they will be on the development path well after the original release. I completely agree.

      I've been involved with several startup companies over the years, and the worst disaster was also the best financed company I was ever part of. We blew over a million dollars in the course of about 18 months (surprisingly not that hard to do). It wasn't even anything exotic, just some equipment, rent, and a trip to a computer convention (where I actually landed a contract with enough profit to pay for that trip anyway.... that really wasn't the problem). There were some huge mistakes made, and lots of finger pointing in the end that was rather pointless but still happened.

    2. Re:Bad Planning by khallow · · Score: 2

      We blew over a million dollars in the course of about 18 months

      I saw a start up do 70 million in a similar length of time. It was obscene, but more entertaining to watch than the usual train wreck. I think the business plan went something like:

      1) Come up with a great idea and get 70 million dollars.

      2) Ok, let's hire a few hundred college grads, pack them in our styling Silicon Valley cube farm, and party!

      3) Here comes the investors. Everyone look busy!

      4) Shit. We need actual product. Better hire some contractors to write that crap.

      5) I rock at ping pong!

      6) We'll have the weekly "performance review" at my house. I just installed a new jacuzzi with built in bar.

      7) Where did the money go?

    3. Re:Bad Planning by dingen · · Score: 2

      The $ 400K project is really a different game than the $ 3.3M project. The bigger budget allowed for a bigger story, a wider scope of characters and locations and in the end basically a whole different game. A better game probably. So what's the problem? That it's taking a few months extra? Who cares?

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    4. Re:Bad Planning by dingen · · Score: 2

      People pledging through Kickstarter aren't investors. They pay money to enable the creation of a product. That product is being made and because there is more money, the product is bigger and better than advertised. Never ever did they promised a delivery date and I doubt anyone really cares if the game is released in October or January or July.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
  5. There are other dangers by CmdrEdem · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Like not taking into account the Crowdfunding site share, Paypal transfer tax (depending on where you live and what site you did use), country, state and city taxes. If you are opening a business there are costs for that too. To properly employ someone is very expensive in some countries (guess what: taxes, social security and so on).

    People will eventually learn how to calculate all this, but indies went too eager to the crowndfunding bubble and did not consult their accountants to see how much game development actually costs. Ow yes... accountants also cost money.

    You could say that Tim was victim of his own success, but I say he was victim to his own creativity combined with over-excitement.

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    1. Re:There are other dangers by Dahamma · · Score: 2

      You could say that Tim was victim of his own success, but I say he was victim to his own creativity combined with over-excitement.

      Well, hopefully it's too soon to name any victims yet... though I have to say I'm glad to see the scope was extended to a larger, more in depth adventure game, almost all of his others have been well worth it. Then again, I'm fine with waiting until it's actually finished to buy it...

    2. Re:There are other dangers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...You could say that Tim was victim of his own success, but I say he was victim to his own creativity combined with over-excitement.

      Sure, one could say that...or one could also say that someone who has been in business long enough to be referred to as "legendary" should at least know the basics of business before making rather large financial guesstimates on general costs. Things like employer taxes and medical insurance plans aren't exactly corporate secrets.

  6. Nothing to do with goals by Bieeanda · · Score: 2
    Everything to do with Tim Schafer being constitutionally incapable of reining himself in. And you know, that's fine when you've got a publisher holding the purse strings, and ultimately able to put their foot down when things get out of hand, especially when it results in titles like Psychonauts and the other amazing adventure stories he's helmed. It's a lot less okay when you can't go to the publisher and ask for another million bucks to see things through.

    Actually, there is a problem with goals here-- specifically, that there wasn't one set in the first place. The Doublefine Kickstarter was an experiment that asked for money to finance the creation of a game, and a documentary film of the whole thing. Nobody knew what it was at first, certainly nobody expected it to get out of hand, and then Tim decided to make something Totally Amazingly New and proceeded to torpedo the budget.

    What he has now is a fantastic idea, but it's the kind of fantastic idea that wants a whole lot more money than the KS brought in, because it's going to require a lot of artists working their hands down to the wrists.

  7. This is called feature creep; mission creep by cheesybagel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Which is why you should stick to well defined objectives. Do the planned release. If you got more money than you expected then you release an expansion pack later for free.

    1. Re:This is called feature creep; mission creep by evilviper · · Score: 2

      If you got more money than you expected then you release an expansion pack later for free.

      Screw that! We aren't talking about a government or non-profit organization here...

      Release the $400,000 game you said you'd release, and everybody paid for. If you overrun the budget a bit, no problem. Just think of the rest of the money as extra sales of the game, in excess of your break-even point. Deliver them the copy of the game they paid for, and they'll all be happy.

      It wouldn't be a bad idea to use SOME of that money for a free expansion pack, community web site and forum, or to develop a sequel, but in general, treat it like profit.

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  8. This subject was adequately explored by NEDHead · · Score: 4, Funny

    in "The Producers".

  9. Re:Hmmm by Sir_Sri · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The original project maybe not. The stretch goals probably.

    With stretch goals you either need more time or more staff than you had originally planned on. If your stretch goal is 10% more than your base game and involves some trivial art feature that's easy to just hire an artist or overtime and existing one for.

    When you get 8x as much money as you were planning on, you stick in goals that you don't think you'll meet, or don't have serious cost estimations for. And that's where you get into trouble. People aren't serious about getting down to work when they know there is way more money than you expected available to pay them, hiring on significantly more staff than you were expecting, with the required office space and infrastructure and training that goes with that takes time, a lot of it, and then with the way kickstarter funding is counted by tax agencies you may be screwed on any money you didn't spend that calendar year and be looking at a huge tax bill. Etc.

    Oh, and as with all creative enterprises, just because I made a great movie/game/story last time doesn't mean I will do so next time, or maybe my great idea will turn out to be... not so great on implementation and now I have to do something else. Changing gears costs money too.

  10. Pebble watch is another example by oneblokeinoz · · Score: 5, Informative

    For another example look at the Pebble watch.

    Originally wanted $100,000 in funding, wound up getting over $10 million. That changed the size of their problem from making 1000 watches, to making 100,000 watches. So now they had to scale their manufacturing by a factor of 100, which is a totally different set of problems to solve.

    There has been a lot of angst (some anger) at the delivery delays, most of the "investors" have been reasonably patient, some have been downright ignorant. One of the most popular forum topics is something like "I funded it on [date], why haven't I got my watch", where [date] was only a small number of days after the kickstarter campaign began, but in reality was when they were at over $5 million going up.

    Disclaimer: I'm still waiting (patiently) on my two watches. I should have just ordered black, or changed to black when they made the option available. sigh!

  11. Mission Creep is deadly by EmagGeek · · Score: 2

    The key is to stick to your original stated goals, and not to expand them just because you get a bunch more money.

    People knew what they were buying with the KS, so there was no reason to radically up-scope the mission, especially to the point that the mission became unobtainable.

  12. it's no surprise by kirkb · · Score: 2

    When you've got a "creative type" in charge of managing a project, you get "creative project management".

    Where I work, if a 6-month project ended up taking 3 years, people would be fired. Or overthrown. Or lynched by a mob.

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    1. Re:it's no surprise by Lehk228 · · Score: 4, Funny

      where i work if a 6 month project only took 3 years everyone would shit their pants.

      we moved to a new building in 2009, while moving we found memos in the basement about the upcoming move

      dated from the 80's

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  13. That is where publishers are useful by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While developers like to hate on publishers, and often with good reason, one thing they usually do is have some business and accounting sense to keep projects on track. Developers can have a "just another couple months and it'll be great!" mentality whereas a publisher understands that time is money, a lot of it. Every month you spend on a project has a big cost. Hence it can be important to release earlier, even if it does mean cutting back.

    Shadowbane and Duke Nukem Forever are two great examples of developers just running away with the "we'll just work on it until it is whatever our vision is," sort of thing and failing massively.

    The problem with the Doublefine thing is that it seems to be a creative person at the helm, and that can mean bad business decisions. It's a nice sentiment to say "Let creativity run wild," but in the real world, you have to consider business concerns.

    I'm more optimistic on Wasteland 2 because Brian Fargo is at the helm and he's a business person. He seems to well understand the need for getting things out the door and working on doing what you can with the resources you have, even if it is less than you want to do.

    Todd Howard had some good points on this during his keynote about this kind of thing: "Your ideas are not as important as your execution," and "We can do anything, we just can't do everything." Both are very true. You have to decide what is going to be in and what isn't, because you haven't the time or resources to implement it all, and what you do implement needs to be good because the grandest ideas are blunted in an unplayable game.

  14. Well I'm also not sure how good a plan they had by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2

    Some of the games that have come on KS have had a pretty good business plan behind them. They know what they want to make, the basics of the world, the story, the scope, all that kind of thing. They then can determine based on funding what sorts of things they'll be able to put in the final project. I mean this goes on with any game project, you will have more ideas than you've ability to implement, so you decide what to keep and what to cut.

    However the Doublefine Adventure really didn't seem to have that. It was basically "Let's make a point and click adventure game!" Ok, cool, but that is pretty broad. I mean they don't even have enough to have a title, just kinda a place holder. A whole lot could fall in their potential scope. Hence, a bit harder to know how to budget for it and so on.

    They really would have been better off having a more solid plan first and then been able to do some budgeting on it.

  15. Re: Hmmm by donscarletti · · Score: 2

    Also, if you watched those Amnesia videos that Double Fine put out, you would see that Tim Schafer is working with a lot of other good people. Frankly it is impossible to build a large game through one person's vision and oversight, you need multiple people each chipping away at the project almost autonomously if you want some magnum opus full of creativity and surprises. Being enough of a good sort to have lots of good people that want to work with you is what separates successful game creators from the wrecks and failures strewn around the industry's forgotten corners.

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  16. This is why we're in a recession. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just don't understand why the scope was expanded at all.

    If I need $X to do W, and then find myself with $X+Y, I spend $X to do W, then keep $Y for a later Z.

    More specifically, he said "I want to make this game, and need $400,000". Once he got $3.3 million, he should have created and released the original game he had planned, and reserved the other $2.9 million for the next game.

    What kind of fucking idiot decides to spend all the money he has simply because he has it?

  17. Re:Hmmm by deek · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Tim is smart enough to know that he cannot run. The Internet is everywhere. We will track him down, lock him up in a small room, Misery-style, and make him write the game we want. Along with the whole Broken Age team, of course. Can't expect Tim to do the programming and artwork, even if we hack off a foot or two.

    Anyway, point being, Tim isn't going anywhere. I'm perfectly confident the game will be made, and it will be Schafer-awesome.

  18. Re:Hmmm by Darinbob · · Score: 2

    No, but I could see Tim and Ron singing "Bootay!" and throwing doubloons in the air.

  19. Let Tim himself explain why. by Camael · · Score: 2

    Statement titled "A Note from Tim"

    Those of you who have been following along in the documentary know about the design vs. money tension we've had on this project since the early days. Even though we received much more money from our Kickstarter than we, or anybody anticipated, that didn't stop me from getting excited and designing a game so big that it would need even more money.

    I think I just have an idea in my head about how big an adventure game should be, so it's hard for me to design one that’s much smaller than Grim Fandango or Full Throttle. There's just a certain amount of scope needed to create a complex puzzle space and to develop a real story. At least with my brain, there is.

    As a side note, it appears that a majority of the backers (or at least, those who identify themselves as backers online) are fine with expanding the scope of the game. And also, that those who complain the loudest against it do not appear to have put any money into the project (like parent poster).

  20. Misunderstanding on the part of backers by Minupla · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The issue comes from backers believing they're preordering a product.

    This is not what is going on here. What is going on is more akin to the Medieval practice of being a patron to an artist.

    We hand our collective money to an artist who says "I want to make something like this... And the more you provide me in funding the bigger and more grand a statue I can make."

    We as a group come together and pool our money and hand it to the artist saying "We like your vision. Here is a bucket of gold coins, go forth and create awesomeness".

    This makes more sense when you consider that the high end rewards are usually something like "A copy of the widget, plus lunch with the widget visionary"

    Noone pays 1000$ for a game. People pay 1000$ for artistic vision and being a part of seeing the vision realized.

    Min

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    1. Re:Misunderstanding on the part of backers by Minupla · · Score: 2

      ... and this is what I get for not going with a car analogy! :)

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  21. Re:Hmmm by dingen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Three million dollars isn't "a giant stack of money" for a game studio. Remember that John Carmack interview on games for mobile, where he said it's cool because you only need 30 million to create a great game instead of 300? AAA-games cost a shit load of cash to develop. Having a talented team working for over a year on something burns money like crazy.

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