UK Government Surveillance Faces Legal Challenge.. In Secret Court

judgecorp writes "Privacy International is mounting a legal challenge against snooping by the UK government's intelligence agency GCHQ. But the case will be held in secret The group is challenging UK government access to Privacy, and the UK's own Tempora system, arguing that both allow 'indiscriminate' snooping because they operate in secrecy with a lack of legal oversight. All well and good — but the authorities have ruled that Privacy's challenge must be heard by the Investigatory Powers Tribunal, which hears cases in secret and is under no obligation to explain or justify its verdicts."

Comments

Wouldn't it be ironic

[Chrisq]

Wouldn't it be ironic if someone had a hidden camera in the secret court

Re:Wouldn't it be ironic

[auric_dude]

A camera in a court sitting in-camera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_camera ironic, funny, insightful, informative or all of them?

Re:Wouldn't it be ironic

[K. S. Kyosuke]

This one sounds more like camera obscura.

They will not peacefully give up their power

[fustakrakich]

You need to find another way of neutralizing it.

Going nowhere

[Anonymous Coward]

We all know the rule of law has broken down completely. I admire their approach, but we need to be realistic. Its the end of the road for our current way of life.

We're all just waiting for this to really kick in and its not going to be pretty when it does.

Re:Going nowhere

[Cenan]

Defeatist attitude will certainly not help any of us one bit. If the current system is not working, one would think getting out of your seat and working for a replacement would be the obvious choice - leaning back on the couch is what got us in this mess to begin with.

Re:Going nowhere

[Opportunist]

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.

- Thomas Jefferson

No system is perfect. And no system will last forever. No matter how good the intentions of the original inventors, it will invariably eventually be perverted by people who do not believe in its core features, its system of privileges and responsibilities and who only want to retain privileges while shedding any and all responsibility.

But people who have only privileges and no responsibilities are useless for a society. Nobility learned that last century. This century will probably teach another part of society this lesson, that people simply don't need phony emperors with no clothes. Maybe we'll even live to see it.

How that change will come is to be determined. The later it comes, the less bloody it will be. Simply because more of the people who could defend the old system will see that it has failed and are not willing to prop it up anymore.

Re:Going nowhere

[Opportunist]

Easily, the same way it's perverted in the US.

1. Make people poor
2. Make defending your rights expensive
3. Break people's rights, knowing that nobody that bothers you has the money to stand up for them.
4. Profit.

Re:Going nowhere

[Anonymous Coward]

...*Fear based rhetoric*...

Although you may think it wrong, the surveillance by GCHQ is a meaningful part of the security services efforts to protect ordinary Britons. You don't offer anything to replace it.

...*More fear based rhetoric*...

Look, I'm sorry you Yanks got your panties in a knot over one attack on home soil. I'm sorry that all your idealism didn't do shit to shield your sad little minds from the "terror" of living in the real world where the insulation of "X has talent" and "X can dance" TV shows hasn't kept you from seeing the enemies you've made.

  But this isn't new shit for us Brits - we've been getting bombed and "terrorised" in our colonies and home country for decades now. We've had the European immigrants into Israel bombing us out of the country, half a dozen countries in Europe that are now our 'friends' trying the same shit, and the bloody Irish separatists using everything from nail bombs to car bombs - it got so bad that people weren't able to put their bins on the street on collection day cause some sod might hide a bomb there.

True enough there are some fat lazy slobs in the commons now that were probably safe in their country home when all that shit was going on - but now they have to be in the center of London for their job - so we have to put up with this shit because of their fear.

But the last thing we need is fretful little cowards like you telling us how important this shite is! It's old news that doesn't concern any of us and you won't make us hate anyone but you and the other cowards. You certainly won't turn us against any of our friends who happen to be of different faiths - at least no any of us that weren't already rabid, froth-mouthed EDL members. The only country that has lost any UK supporters in the last decade has been the US - and that's only going to get worse as people like you continue to shout the loudest.

Oh well...

[lxs]

I guess that governments value their privacy as well.

The very word "secrecy" is repugnant

[Anonymous Coward]

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. [...] there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it." - JFK

Star Chamber

[dido]

Might as well reopen the Star Chamber while they're at it.

Re:Star Chamber

[countach]

No need to reopen it. This IS the star chamber.

pix or it didn't happen

[khallow]

Aside from the obvious abuse of power inherent in the absence of accountability of secret trials, there's the equally obvious problem of undocumented law and its considerable potential for abuse. Regulation is by definition documented. And one of the benefits of that is that one has some idea of the lines which shouldn't be crossed.

Secret rulings by unaccountable courts mean secret laws which can then be selectively enforced by the only people who know the contents of those rulings, including their features and context. I think it should be a broad principle that such secret courts should never exist in a democratic society.

Yeah not surprised.

[Mashiki]

I think it was oh 8 months ago or so, I made a comment about how the UK was no longer adhering to the basic tenets of democracy and have basically thrown the shitter, and then burning it. I got modded down, flamed, and people said I was full of shit then. Yeah well, I guess I was right then as much as I was right now. Get's worse of course, that the UK is blocking people who might offend the "violent minority" and in turn speaking the truth isn't conducive to the public good.

Secret court, is that the one ...

[Ihlosi]

... where they hide the kangaroo really well?

George Orwell Was an Optimist ...

[trydk]

... and Terry Gilliam's Brazil depicts a Utopia compared to today's standards.

Sounds about right.

[auric_dude]

Sitting in the dark while viewing an inverted image of the outside world.

Re:The magna carta does exist, you know.

[TheCarp]

> Unfortunately, it looks like American law started with rights for all and
> is now working its way back up.

Rights for ALL* in America!

* Some restrictions apply, applies to US residents before the signing of the constitution or born here afterwards. Void in the case of membership in native tribes. Must own significant land to qualify. Men only.