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Tiny Ion Engine Runs On Water

symbolset writes "Discovery News is covering a project by two engineers from the University of Michigan to pair cubesats with tiny ion engines for inexpensive interplanetary exploration. The tiny plasma drive called the CubeSat Ambipolar Thruster (CAT) will ionize water and use it as propellant with power provided by solar cells. In addition to scaling down the size of ion engines they hope to bring down the whole cost of development and launch to under $200,000."

30 of 103 comments (clear)

  1. No, it runs on sunlight. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    n/t

    1. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That answer is just as dumb.

      It runs on both.

      It always needs a propellant and a energy source.

    2. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The propellant used is incidental, as evidenced by the ion drives that run on xenon, for example. The difference here is that the engine can use something easily found in space, i.e. water. It's no small achievement, but the headline is disingenuous to say the least.

    3. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Informative

      The propellant used is incidental, as evidenced by the ion drives that run on xenon, for example.

      Actually, there are *very* good reasons for why specific kinds of engines run on specific kinds of propellants. "Incidental" is hardly the word I'd use.

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    4. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by interval1066 · · Score: 4, Funny

      You'd think that the Fremen with all their technology would find a way to scoop it up and funnel it down to Arrakis then.

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    5. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by SJHillman · · Score: 2

      The point that they've found a cloud of the stuff billions of times the size of the Earth is a decent indicator it will exist in smaller, but still vast, quantities elsewhere. It's unlikely there's just one big cloud of water in all the universe.

      The Pacific Ocean is a poor example because the poster I was responding to specified space, which generally means "not caught in a planet's gravity". The cloud I referenced is free-floating in space.

    6. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by symbolset · · Score: 2

      One asteroid we know of has 200 quadrillion metric tons of the stuff. Is that both enough and close enough for you? Yes, the Pacific Ocean has more, but it is rather more inconveniently located at the bottom of a deep gravity well.

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    7. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by icebike · · Score: 2

      Water is the fuel, sunlight is merely a power source. The solar arrays could be replaced with whatever power source you want - RTG, fission reactor, Li-ion battery, etc.

      A fuel, by definition, supplies power. Water supplies none. Therefore it is not a fuel.

      Water is merely a propellant.

      You don't get to use the word "merely" in relation to a power source. That's totally backwards.

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    8. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by symbolset · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Until, that is, you get out to the Oort cloud where all the water is.

      Ceres was the first asteroid discovered and is now classed as a "minor planet". It is a main belt asteroid between Mars and Jupiter. It has a diameter of about 1000 km, and is believed to have a mantle composed almost entirely of water ice that makes up one third of the body's mass. 200 quadrillion metric tons of water ice should be more than sufficient, as it's more than all the fresh water on Earth and ionizing that much water to plasma would take more energy than we have until fusion is worked out. For scale, these interplanetary cubesats would launch with 1.5 kg of water for propellant, or 1/1*10^20 of that. The water ice should be relatively pure as it was gravitically distilled during the formation of the body. Ceres may even have liquid water still. It is a main asteroid belt object near enough to the sun that solar energy is effective for solar water distillation and solar cells. It has an equatorial surface gravity of 0.03g, and an escape velocity of 500 m/s. On the surface it has a thin coat of iron and silicon rich minerals that would also be useful. It is believed to own 1/3rd the mass of the entire main asteroid belt, or just over 1% of the mass of the Moon, 0.01% the mass of the entire Oort cloud all in one convenient low gravity place close enough to the sun for solar cells to work. How much more water the Oort cloud has than Ceres is irrelevant if Ceres has more than we can use in a more convenient place.

      In just over 18 months, February 2015, the NASA Dawn mission will arrive there and survey Ceres. NASA Dawn uses an ion engine also, and its delta-V is not very different from that proposed for these cubesats.

      On the energy thing: Solar cells are perhaps misnamed because of their historical use. It turns out they convert energy quite well if you point a laser at them. Even better as the laser can be tuned to the maximum conversion frequency of the cell. As the energy of lasers don't diminish as much over distance as other methods it is quite possible to power the "solar cells" of distant craft by pointing lasers at them from closer to the sun where insolation is higher using solar cells as energy input. We think of lasers as a thing that has perfect collimation that makes them useless for powering solar cells but in fact at interplanetary distances past the utility of the sun's energy the beam will be larger than the craft. Our deep space craft need not run out of "solar" energy ever while we care to illuminate them with space-based lasers to the limit of their capacity, even to interstellar space. This is much preferable to carrying the energy with the craft even with nuclear fission fuels. Maybe one day we'll make a craft that goes out to the Oort cloud, eats a comet to refuel on its way to the stars. But that's in the distant future. For now the Oort cloud is off the table.

      Because filters exist you can even still use communication lasers on a different frequency from your power lasers. Communication lasers don't suffer from physics as much as radio transmissions do, as long as you use space based relays in Earth orbit with radio ground comms. The Earth's atmosphere plays hob with communication lasers. You still have periods twice a year when you can't talk to the thing, and can't send it power. If you have power and comm relays on Ceres this drops to once in 800 years when both Earth and Ceres are conjoined.

      Ionizing the water is part of the process of the engine converting it to plasma, so ordinary water is the input - not some special "ionized" water.

      In short, if water works as an ion engine propellant then we've cracked the nut for Man's exploration of the solar system and the stars. Your issue about having to go out to the Oort cloud for water is, of course, ridiculous.

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    9. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ease of ionization, mass to charge ratio (something favoring both being xenon), cost, size and ease of storage, scalability of storage (two things apparently favored by water over xenon), long term impact on accelerating grids, ...

    10. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by The+Mighty+Buzzard · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dunno about rocket scientists but they sound like damned fine sysadmin material.

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    11. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by Teancum · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Pacific Ocean is something very inconvenient for a spacecraft in Geo-synchronous orbit. In fact, it is much, much easier to grab something from the Moon or from an asteroid or comet than it is to get that same bucket of water from the Pacific Ocean. In fact, it would be easier and "cheaper" (assuming the infrastructure was in place) to mine the ice caps of Mars than it would be to get water from the Pacific Ocean.

      A really good diagram that shows some delta-v budgets for moving stuff around the solar system can be found here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Delta-Vs_for_inner_Solar_System.svg

      The gravity well is something that is not just from science fiction, but something that has to do with real-life physics. Or are you one of those who thinks the Apollo Moon landings happened in a Burbank studio? I suppose NASA has never sent anything above the "sky" either, not even a communications satellite? Without real people doing real things in space, you would likely be dead. I'm not exaggerating.

    12. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by evilviper · · Score: 2

      Ceres [...] is believed to have a mantle composed almost entirely of water ice that makes up one third of the body's mass. 200 quadrillion metric tons of water ice should be more than sufficient

      But when we start mining the ice there, what will we do with all the Woolly Mammoth skeletons we did up?

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    13. Re:No, it runs on sunlight. by Noughmad · · Score: 2

      Arrakis used to have plenty of water, unfortunately all those damn Fremen kept collecting it and hiding it in caves.

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  2. I'm sure there is a drought in space joke somewher by tloh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    .....but more practically: how much thrust/impulse/whatever would you be able squeeze out of an amount of water that can be carried by a tiny cubesat? The article implicitly compares it favorably to current Xenon/Krypton based systems, but made no effort to explain why. Any slashdoter willing to work out the math?

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  3. Better than Jesus... by ElectroVaping · · Score: 5, Funny

    Jesus could only walk on water this thing runs on water. That is no small feat...

    1. Re:Better than Jesus... by M0j0_j0j0 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ye, but can this thing turn water into wine, ye Jesus wins!

    2. Re:Better than Jesus... by Argon · · Score: 2

      But, this does turn water into a _whine_ when expelling it but it's just that you can't hear it in space :-).

  4. Re:I'm sure there is a drought in space joke somew by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd be also interested in knowing that. Xenon really is the almost ideal propellant: low ionization energy, heavy ions, completely inert, good density... Water might be slightly nasty, especially if the oxygen ions will come into contact with something reactive. But I do hope that these guys pull it off. I've been a space propulsion junkie since the age of ten or so. Stuff like this makes me tickled pink.

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  5. No mention of the kickstarter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Summary makes no mention of the CAT kickstarter campaign for this thing.

  6. Re:I'm sure there is a drought in space joke somew by M0HCN · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Thats true, but the issue in a cubesat is going to be all about total propellant mass fraction (The fraction of the vehicle mass at launch made of of stuff you can sling out the back at high speed), so while Xe is a better reaction mass if you have the space for the tank, it may well be that in this particular use case the higher storage density (and thus the ability to fit more of it into a tiny tank) actually trumps the heavier ion.

    Space propulsion is all about propellant mass fraction and exhaust velocity, as those two numbers define how much delta V you can get out of your available fuel.

    The problem with light ions in this situation is that the momentum transferred is simply the product of exhaust mass and exhaust velocity, the energy required to produce that exhaust velocity is 1/2 mv^2, thus a heavier ion travelling more slowly requires less energy input to the accelerator for a given amount of momentum transfer then a light ion moving fast.

    However if you have surplus electrical power, and are not too concerned about producing large accelerations (even by ion drive standards), and can solve the corrosion and thermal management problems, it might actually be a reasonable tradeoff.

    All space propulsion is tradeoffs between energy/reaction mass/specific impulse/acceleration, there are no really right answers here, and having another validated tool in the box is always going to be useful.

  7. Re: I'm sure there is a drought in space joke some by fermion · · Score: 2

    A cubesat is a kilogram or so. Adding a cold gas thruster with a solar panel could give it limited attitude control and not break the mass budget. I don't know how you build interplanetary telemetry and control in a kilogram so that an ion thruster can get to mars and transmit data. the solar panels necessary for a jupiter mission are massive and much more limited than a nuclear option. A big benefit of the ion engine is a reduction in the fuel that has to be lifted. And the fuel must be easy to ionize, which seems to currently argon, not water. Of course any test bed to see how things actually work is space is great. We can theorize all we want but won't know until we try

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  8. Why is water better than Xe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As has been previously mentioned, the key question of space propulsion is how much thrust can you get for a given mass of propellant? The usual measure of this is Isp, which is thrust per weight flow rate of propellant. While it seems unlikely that water will beat Xe due to having lower mass per ion, it does have several key advantages, which are not really in the article except the first one:

    1. Smaller storage tank can be used for liquid water as opposed to a gas. This is especially important if you're trying to piggyback with another satellite.
    2. Gas will leak out over time, requiring more expensive hardware to contain it. You need something able to handle the expansion and contraction associated with sunlight, plus the very high pressure. That's a lot of seals, and getting seals that won't degrade in space is not that trivial- it's a harsh environment, especially from a radiation standpoint.
    3. This is just something that occurred to me, but a large fraction of the weight on a spacecraft is a radiator, because the only way to get rid of heat in space is radiative heat transfer, which is much less efficient than convection. (and if you are generating power and thrusting, you are making heat) If you utilized the water as the working fluid in the radiator, you might be able to simplify another subsystem. I don't know if they actually did this.

    So in summary:
    It is unlikely that water produces a more efficient propulsion system, but it may well produce a simpler, cheaper, and easier to transport one.
    Disclaimer: No actual math was done for the writing of this post. If you have math to prove me wrong, please do so.

    1. Re:Why is water better than Xe? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

      Say I want to fly to Saturn and land on Titan. I could build a big vehicle (think Discovery from 2001) and fit it out with a number of fission reactors and a huge array of ion engines. It would have water tanks surrounding the crew compartments for radiation shielding. The mission would include a visit to a small Saturn moon with a known source of water ice so that more reaction mass could be collected. The article doesn't have numbers for the specific impulse of these ion engines but it would certainly be interesting to do the calculations.

    2. Re:Why is water better than Xe? by symbolset · · Score: 2

      Look, I get that you are an Evangelical or some other type of Luddite who would like to discourage space exploration. The "space nutter" thing was a dead giveaway. My puzzle isn't how to get to the stars, but why you think you're going to get anywhere talking to me of all people. All you're doing is encouraging me write a howto on the necessary path using readily available off-the-shelf technology. If your goal is to prevent this then you have not served it here. You would have done better to stay mute.

      If your goal was to troll the howto out of me, then well done! Mission accomplished.

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    3. Re:Why is water better than Xe? by c0lo · · Score: 2

      3. This is just something that occurred to me, but a large fraction of the weight on a spacecraft is a radiator, because the only way to get rid of heat in space is radiative heat transfer, which is much less efficient than convection. (and if you are generating power and thrusting, you are making heat) If you utilized the water as the working fluid in the radiator, you might be able to simplify another subsystem. I don't know if they actually did this.

      So in summary: It is unlikely that water produces a more efficient propulsion system, but it may well produce a simpler, cheaper, and easier to transport one. Disclaimer: No actual math was done for the writing of this post. If you have math to prove me wrong, please do so.

      Re: radiative heat transfer. I don't think that the power used by a cubesat can provide heating challenges, especially if the said cubesat is to run on solar panels (heaps of surface relative to the delivered power). So much so that keeping the water from freezing may be the actual problem (given the quite high specific heat of water/ice, it would be a pity if needed to waste energy in melting the fuel first).

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  9. Re:I'm sure there is a drought in space joke somew by symbolset · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Exhaust velocity is 20,000 Km/hr and propellant is half the mass of the craft so it should be on the order of Dawn Mission's 10,000 KPH delta V. If it works at all. These ion engines can theoretically run on a wide variety of propellants like xenon, argon or iodine but since water is so common in space it would be nice if it were effective. Ultimately that means one might refuel in transit, or we might shoot fuel at one with a rail gun. Further out there is less solar energy for the solar cells but we can laser illuminate them. Radio is a problem because of power laws, but space to space laser comm fixes that, with satellite to ground radio relays.

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  10. Re:I'm sure there is a drought in space joke somew by symbolset · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The main asteroid belt is beyond Mars, but it's also the closest space that water ice can remain on a body after all these billions of years. Ceres is a gift. It is a fuel depot for interplanetary exploration. It is a potential habitat. It is a gateway to the stars. 200 quadrillion metric tons of water in a low-g environment close enough to the sun for solar cells to work. What more could you ask for? Somebody to exploit it for you? Just wait and they'll come along but they will charge market rates for the effort and then some margin.

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  11. Re:I'm sure there is a drought in space joke somew by real-modo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is a potential habitat. It is a gateway to the stars.

    ...and here you reveal your true colours.

    Ceres is not a potential habitat.

    Assume you can develop a shelter with adequate shielding from cosmic rays and solar storms, adequate insulation, pressure containment, etc. (Despite the fact that we don't know what "adequate" is, or exactly what's in "etc".) And assume you can transport inhabitants there, all the while keeeping them healthy. Fine. One teeny little failure in one annoying little subsystem, lasting a mere minute, and every inhabitant is dead. What are the odds of zero operation failures in a lifetime? Never happened in any city here on Earth. Or even any inhabited building.

    Another thing. If you could build machines reliable enough to transport people safely around the solar system (and you actually wanted to have people live off Earth), why would you bother with a habitat on an asteroid? Stick with what works: the spaceship. Iain Banks had this right.

    Ceres is not a gateway to the stars.

    Nothing is. The stars are too far away. You'll never live long enough to learn anything from sending a physical mass to any star with Earth-like, habitable zone planets; your city won't exist long enough. Your civilization likely won't last long enough. (The Fermi paradox is no paradox at all. It's a demonstration of how far apart stars are, and how hostile and unrewarding the intervening space is...and perhaps of the rationality of other intelligent life.)

    So what are we left with? Ceres is a potentially useful source of reaction mass/propellant, if anyone ever discovers a valid reason to send physical masses past geosynchronous orbit. (I'll believe mining asteroids could be profitable when I discover a pressing ubiqitous and essential materials problem for which all solutions require one particular element, and the element is both in short supply here on Earth and abundant on an asteroid near Ceres. To date, though, there are substitutes and alternatives for pretty much everything that might start to get short in the next century, so don't hold your breath.)

    I can see a point to mini ion drives. They're potentially handy for sending things out to geosynchronous orbit and doing stuff there and in LEO. And I can see a point to operating telescopes with good resolving power out "in space". But I can't see why they'd need to be very far away from Earth. And even for purposes of scientific experimentation, I can't see a point to sending physical mass much past the outer part of the Oort cloud.

    If you want to get a semi-knowledgeable public interested in this stuff, don't use words and phrases like 'habitat', 'gateway to the stars' or 'profit' when talking about this stuff. They scream "space cadet".

  12. Re: I'm sure there is a drought in space joke some by stoatwblr · · Score: 2

    Correction:

    A cubesat is made up of one or more 10x10x10cm blocks AT LAUNCH.

    Mass is entirely dependent on how those blocks are filled up.

    Flying configuration is entirely dependent on how they're designed to pack. Quite a few of them unfold quite large solar panels and linear antennas once released into orbit - and you're not constrained to ONE block, just the block-based configuration (Many larger cubesats are made up of 3 blocks. OTOH some cubesats may disperse into a bunch of smaller devices once released.)

    Launch cost is based on the volume taken up and/or the mass (there is limited space available and limited mass capability, so you have to fit within both constraints)

    They're intended for quick'n'dirty development. The reason they're so cheap is that there's no guarantee of delivery in any desired orbital plane, no interfacing with the launcher (except in the physical sense of being loaded into a carrier), and comms with them is your problem from the outset. They're expected to be entirely self-contained and be able to sort themselves out once they discover they're free-floating.

    (They're also cheap because 99% of them are prototypes made with COTS gear and duct tape, not subjected to any kind of space/launch qualification except those the maker decides to run. For any other type of launch there are dozens of prototypes made, plus flight spares and virtually _everything_ down to screw level is custom made and space rated over hundred of tests (space rating an instrument such as an ion detector takes several months in a vacuum chamber over extreme temperature excursions and costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. Launch rating requires similar tests on high powered vibration tables more than easily capable of turning your insides to jelly should you be silly enough to sit on one while running (There's one in the same building as I am and everyone knows when it's in use). On top of that there are ultra-precision requirements for everything, to ensure that it all assembles correctly - but that doesn't always stop things being installed backwards (eg gyro sensors on a Proton, the parachute dispensing sensor on New Horizons or the swapping of camera assemblies between spirit and opportunity despite precautions being taken at every step of the way to prevent exactly that occurance) because all the engineering in the world is no use if it doesn't include "design for assembly".)