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Angela Merkel Tells US Firms To Meet German Privacy Rules

judgecorp writes "Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel has given her backing to proposed European privacy regulations and demanded that U.S. firms should meet German privacy rules. Merkel's stance comes as U.S. firms lobby against strict E.U. privacy proposals — but also follows revelations from Edward Snowden through German newspaper Der Spiegel, that the German authorities are helping the NSA spy on German citizens."

27 of 153 comments (clear)

  1. Only applies to EU citizens, presumably by Chirs · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My reading on that is that *if* the new European Commission data privacy rules get passed, then Germany would expect US firms to abide by those rules *for citizens of the EU*. Seems quite reasonable, actually.

    Basically it's just an extension of the fact that those same US firms already have to comply with existing privacy rules in various countries around the world. (I seem to recall Google having to blur faces and license plates when it launched Street View in Canada...)

    1. Re:Only applies to EU citizens, presumably by Mitreya · · Score: 2

      My reading on that is that *if* the new European Commission data privacy rules get passed, then Germany would expect US firms to abide by those rules *for citizens of the EU*. Seems quite reasonable, actually.

      Isn't it? But it is difficult to understand for Americans.
      Here in US, when companies are blatantly violating the law, they are retroactively shielded by Congress, instead of being punished and forced into compliance.

    2. Re:Only applies to EU citizens, presumably by phayes · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What I'd really like to know is whether Merkel's rule only apply to US corporations. In other words, will France's DGSE's collection of the same information as that the USG is collecting through US Corporations get a free pass? From the info I can find, it seems so...

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    3. Re:Only applies to EU citizens, presumably by JanneM · · Score: 5, Informative

      But these US companies do business in the EU. If, say, Google really truly only existed in the US it'd be one thing, but they do not. They make a good deal of their income from advertising and services in the EU; have facilities, offices and data centers there; most have daughter companies in the area.

      Put it this way: EU car makers must follow US safety standards for the vehicles they export to the US, right? Even though they don't actually make them there, or have the head office there or anything. So, if you're an online business and solicit users and income in the EU it's jsut as reasonable that you have to follow local laws for that business as well.

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    4. Re:Only applies to EU citizens, presumably by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, the DGSE has to comply with German rules when dealing with German citizens. It has to comply with EU rules when dealing with everything, even non-EU citizens. Unlike the US we don't have this concept of rights only applying to our own citizens, they apply to everyone.

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  2. Re:About Time by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is Merkel. She's the epitome of leading from the back. First, she checks where the masses are running, then she overtakes them, puts herself on the front of the movement and screams "follow me!"

    So by definition it takes her a while to find out where everyone is running, she really doesn't want to start early and follow... erh, lead an agenda that doesn't have enough voters behind it.

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  3. Now THIS is funny! by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The same government that brought us the "Bundestrojaner" (a trojan to be employed by law enforcement), that did pretty much anything to create Stasi 2.0 is now complaining about someone else doing it to them.

    Mrs. Merkel, meet Mr. Kettle.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. Re:About Time by RoknrolZombie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This still sounds better than what we have in the US, where the politicians close their eyes, run for awhile, then declare "This is what you asked for! No, I'm not going to come all of the way back there...do you realize how far I ran?"

  5. Re:About Time by intermodal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'll take a leader who leads people places they want to go over leaders that go wherever the hell they want any day of the week.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  6. Re:About Time by Noughmad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is Merkel. She's the epitome of leading from the back. First, she checks where the masses are running, then she overtakes them, puts herself on the front of the movement and screams "follow me!"

    So by definition it takes her a while to find out where everyone is running, she really doesn't want to start early and follow... erh, lead an agenda that doesn't have enough voters behind it.

    This is basically what democracy should be about: doing what the people want.

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  7. This is only possible at the moment by metrix007 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They can only do this while the US company has some sort of presence in Europe.

    As internet speeds increase, the need for a physical presence will disappear.

    Good luck getting Google or Facebook to comply if all their datacenters and business locations are only in the US.

    Europeans will still want to use the services, so that will be interesting.

    --
    If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    1. Re:This is only possible at the moment by trampel · · Score: 2

      Keep in mind that to Google and Facebook, each user is a product, not a customer.

      They do have business presences in most European countries to interact with their real customers, i.e. advertisers. It sounds reasonable to expect them to adhere to local laws in countries that they do business in.

    2. Re:This is only possible at the moment by phayes · · Score: 3, Informative

      When Facebook/Google sells to local businesses in Europe, it does not matter that f/g is entirely off shored as they need
      Ely block the money. For an example of how off shored businesses can be brought to heel, see the gambling sites the USG has been blocking.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    3. Re:This is only possible at the moment by TheSync · · Score: 4, Informative

      I was recently at an IT conference in Geneva.

      A speaker from a large company there warned those attending (mainly from Europe) to avoid US cloud companies because of NSA spying. Not just US-based servers, but also any company with SUPPORT STAFF located in the US as well, even if the servers are located outside of the US.

      Reason 1 is the risk of private company information flowing to competitors through the NSA either officially or through corruption.

      Reason 2 is the legal risk of falling afoul of EU privacy laws by hosting in the US or with US support staff.

      That's the report from Europe folks. You can call it FUD, but it is there nonetheless.

    4. Re:This is only possible at the moment by coyote_oww · · Score: 2

      Mmm, really? Arab countries famously have laws prohibiting Israeli content in products. The US has laws outlawing such (http://www.bis.doc.gov/complianceandenforcement/antiboycottcompliance.htmt).

      The problem is that you can't get countries to agree to have compatible laws, and the internet presence of a company is effectively in one place. If the rules are different from locale to locale, users will tend to gravitate to one particular locale that is most attractive (for whatever reason). Insisting on enforcing your laws in someone else's locale is futile. The logical extension of this is that companies with internet presence would have to comply with every law in every country - a logical impossibility, not to mention the practical impossibility.

      Having the US to blame for everything helps pull the continent together. I'd like to see Europe cut itself off from Google, Apple. Ebay, et.al. It would be entertaining. Be interesting to see whether the rest of the world followed them, or stuck with the American services they are used to. Be interesting to see everything required to have French as the default, or at least in an equal prominence as English. Basically, I don't have confidence in Europe's ability to settle it's own differences, without accusing each other of spying, or controlling, or destroying other cultures, etc. Watching them have to deal honestly with their internal divisions would be fascinating.

    5. Re:This is only possible at the moment by metrix007 · · Score: 2

      Yeah, that's pretty much nonsense. It sure sounds slick to say, but it's still nonsense.

      Any individual is not a product, they are the customer, because advertising is sold to them.

      A large collection of users as a whole may be a product for advertisers. That is not the same as each user being a product.

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    6. Re:This is only possible at the moment by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bullshit.

      Multinational corporations will always have a presence in Europe. Google maintains several offices throughout Germany. If you want to do business in a country on the scale the giants do, you need a local subsidary.

      I see this again and again and again in every stupid fucking article about some European country not bowing down to US corporate interests. It's always the same moronic argument that basically boils down to "we powerful US corporations can do what we want, if Europe doesn't like it, we can pull out of there and then they'll be sorry".

      The real world disagrees. Google pulling out of Europe would mean a bit of an inconvenience for Europe, and a dramatically damaged Google. I would go so far and claim that it's a move that could potentially destroy them. Or any other Internet giant.

      What would happen to Europe if we lost Google, or Facebook? There'd be a lot of whining, and someone would step up to fill the gap before you can finish writing your blog post about the whining I mentioned, and after a short while, Googles or Facebooks would have powerful competition with a strong base in Europe and pressing on them in their other markets.

      Seriously, idiots on /. are the only people seriously suggesting such a suicide move. The real players would rather pump a few millions into lobby work.

      --
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  8. You have it backwards, IMO.... by rts008 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...Snowden is a traitor and a criminal...

    Says you.
    Not everyone agrees with you.
    His name has been put up for the Nobel Peace Prize as of today, .by at least one person

    As a US citizen, I applaud him, and think the traitors and criminals are holding gov't. offices.

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  9. Dear Angela: by swschrad · · Score: 2

    We are complying with GFR privacy rules and more, by directly spying on your citizens and ours, so you don't have to do it for us.

    Sincerely, Redacted.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  10. Re:About Time by beelsebob · · Score: 2

    It's almost like she's doing what politicians are meant to be doing –representing their constituent's views!

    Woe betide the politician who actually finds out what their constituents views are before deciding what to do!

  11. Re:Snowden by Mitreya · · Score: 2

    Scum bag. Yes

    How do you figure that part? There are certainly a number of more profitable things he could have done with this information instead, so he definitely acted selflessly (regardless of whether it was or was not legal and regardless whether you agree with his actions).

  12. Re:About Time by zazzel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nope, that is actually the definition of opportunistic behaviour. In a democracy, in theory we transfer power to people we have elected for certain goals and values. If I wanted a flag hanging in the wind, parties would become obsolete.

  13. Re:About Time by hackwrench · · Score: 3, Funny

    Excepept its usually morea bunch of sheep and a few wolves except the wolves work to convince the sheep the wolves are actually sheepdogs and if a few sheep were to disappear... the remaining sheep are told its because they didn'tlisten to the wolves, er sheepdogs.

  14. Re:About Time by Tom · · Score: 2

    Except that this is only the show.

    The real politics of the current government are... let's just say they are so deep in certain lobby and interest group pockets, it isn't even funny anymore. If someone had done a satire about this ten years ago, I don't think anyone would have printed it because it would've sounded too outlandish and overdone.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  15. Re:About Time by bdwebb · · Score: 2

    Parties are obsolete. We don't need 'sides' to get behind and we don't need some arbitrary party organization dictating the policies of those 'sides' to the elected officials belonging to those parties. Our elected officials were elected to represent the will of the will of the people and I don't believe many people would argue that this is what our politicians are currently doing or have done for quite some time. Two party politicians get elected based upon their campaign's stated goals and somehow everyone turns a blind eye when almost immediately the stated goals of their official change because he/she is 'on their side'.

    Instead of a flag hanging in the wind, how about not supporting one of the big two? Instead, we might all have to actually pay attention to the politics of the candidates we elect and the candidates might actually have to act on what they say in order to even get elected...you know - how it should be according to the idealistic definition of democracy that you have. Seems more educated and enlightened a way to do things than to just know that you are a democrat or a republican and therefore that is just how you vote. In a society in which we intentionally launch objects and vehicles into space and control scientific research vessels remoly on OTHER PLANETS, shouldn't we all have to progress together instead of electing people who 'just know what to do' so that we can avoid the added stress of having to pay attention to what the fuck is going on? Er wait...that cuts into my (social trend following and facebook updating/beer drinking and nascar) time...nevermind, fuck that shit.

  16. Re:About Time by BitZtream · · Score: 2

    You end up like California where the public votes for no taxes and a completely government provided existence ... then wonders why it fails to work.

    Direct democracy is a really stupid idea.

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  17. Re:About Time by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    Well, Merkel, too, prefers to run to where the money is. But she also knows that she doesn't just have 2 terms, and as long as she can stay in office there's always another time to cash in.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.