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Patent Trolls Getting the Attention of the Feds

crazyvas writes "The New York Times has published an article on the FTC's plans to investigate the patent system, and likely patent trolls such as Intellectual Ventures. From the article: 'To its defenders, Intellectual Ventures is a revolutionary company unfairly viewed, in the words of its co-founder Peter N. Detkin, "as the poster child of everything that is wrong with the patent system." To its critics, it is a protection racket otherwise known as a patent troll. This summer, the Federal Trade Commission is expected to begin a sweeping investigation of the patent system after the agency's chairwoman, Edith Ramirez, urged a crackdown. She has singled out a particular kind of miscreant, one that engages in "a variety of aggressive litigation tactics," including hiding behind shell companies when it sues.'"

23 of 92 comments (clear)

  1. How about investigating East Texas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They should invent a rule that requires you to file your patent lawsuit in the county the business has its headquarters located in.

    1. Re:How about investigating East Texas by norpy · · Score: 4, Informative

      They already have that rule, all the shell companies are headquartered in east Texas.

    2. Re:How about investigating East Texas by rijrunner · · Score: 2

      Back in the early days of automobile and aircraft manufacturing, there were similar problems to this. In aircraft manufacturing, the Wright-Curtiss lawsuits held back aircraft development by a couple decades.

      There automotive industry came up with a fairly decent solution fairly quickly, which is interesting as the Ford Company was well on its way to becoming a monopoly when it agreed to the terms set out. The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) was formed as a licensing and technology sharing organization. Any member of that organization could license the technology of any other member of that organization.

      -----------
      http://www.sae.org/about/intelproperty/faqs.htm

      "Q. What is the SAE patent policy with regard to standards in development? What must be disclosed, by whom and by when during the standards development process?

      A. SAE's IP Policy provides the following guidance:

      2.3 Patents
      It has been traditionally the position of SAE to avoid the use of patented technology in Technical Reports where the principal objective is conformance to the Technical Report as defined by the SAE Technical Standards Board. However, with the advent of more complex technologies, it is not always possible to provide Technical Reports that meet today's needs without incorporating technologies that are patented. It has become difficult, if not impossible, to develop standards that do not take advantage of or otherwise incorporate the use of products, systems or process that implementation would necessarily infringe a claim of such a patent. Accordingly, SAE Technical Reports may include the known use of patent(s), including patent applications, if there is in the opinion of the committee developing the Technical Report technical justification and provided that SAE receive assurance from the patent holder that it will license applicants under reasonable terms and conditions for the purpose of implementing the standard. This assurance shall be provided without coercion and prior to the approval of the standard or reaffirmation when a patent becomes known after the initial approval of the standard. This assurance shall be a letter that is in the form of either:

      2.3.1 A general disclaimer to the effect that the patentee will not enforce any of its present or future patent(s) whose claims would be necessarily infringed by implementation of the proposed SAE Technical Report against any person or entity implementing the mandatory provisions of the Technical Report to effect compliance or;

      2.3.2 A statement that a license will be made available to all applicants without compensation or under reasonable rates, with reasonable terms and conditions that are demonstrably free of any unfair discrimination."

      ---

      The problem now is that people are a) allowed patents of pretty basic concepts that are quite obvious and b) using patents to stifle competition rather than license technologies.

      If I were looking at reforming patents, I would look at the "obvious" clause and how to address license agreements. I don't have anything against patents as long as someone is bending hardware and selling products based on it.

  2. Oh Yeah Be Afraid of The Fed by al0ha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's see, how many Wall Street executives are in jail due to the Fed investigating the irrefutable evidence of fraud at the highest levels perpetuated by Goldman and others which led to the collapse of the economy.

    Oh yeah; 0

    --
    Did you ever wake up in the morning, with a Zombie Woof behind your eyes? -- FZ
    1. Re:Oh Yeah Be Afraid of The Fed by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2

      Uh, almost 1. Rajat Gupta has been convicted of insider trading, ordered to pay a $13.9 million fine, and sentenced to 2 years in prison. He's also been banned from serving as an officer or director of any publicly traded company.

      He's never seen the inside of a jail though, and he's still out on bail, pending appeal, so we'll see.

    2. Re:Oh Yeah Be Afraid of The Fed by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Everyone has the power to create debt. Money is just readily transferable debt, which is the entire point of it: I do some work now for someone, and they don't produce anything that I need right now, then they give me some tokens representing the debt. I can use these tokens to exchange for some useful product or service from someone else who doesn't directly want anything that I produce.

      Saying that money is backed by debt is a nice libertarian talking point, but it doesn't actually convey any information. Money exists so that you can balance unequal trades with a promise that they will be equalised in the future, and any promise of future balance is debt.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Oh Yeah Be Afraid of The Fed by vlad30 · · Score: 2

      Rajat Gupta sounds like they outsourced the punishment or at least trying to

      --
      Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
  3. Beware what you ask for... by dpilot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sounds like this may trigger legislation. When legislation is written, big corporations frequently have at least a virtual seat at the table, "helping" to get it written.

    The true fear hear is that any sort of reform to solve the problems of patent trolls will tend to favor those big corporations in ordinary matters. The problem is the new person or company with something new and disruptive to the existing market. Though it's a little painful, in the longer run it's for the better when the market gets disrupted this way, because new opportunities emerge in the process. If the "reforms" give big corporations more power to "manage" the disruption, preserving their own markets and business models, we all lose. (The disruption will happen anyway, outside the US.)

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    1. Re:Beware what you ask for... by foniksonik · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which is more likely? A small guy invents something truly unique or a small guy invents something with a unique quality but incorporates lots of industry standard technology?

      In the first case the small guy should have a clear patent that is not disputable.

      In the second case one of three things can happen. He can file and be awarded an overly broad patent which is clearly just a rewrite of prior art at which point he sells it to a patent troll or he can file and be awarded a small patent on something unique but unfortunately can't do anything with it because a patent troll already laid claim to the industry standard stuff he built it on top of.

      The third thing that could happen is that the guy realizes he's screwed and his idea will never make it past the startup phase - so he gives up and goes back to work to a corporate gig.

      This third possibility is becoming more and more common. This is the chilling effect of patents and patent trolls. People are afraid to do anything new for fear of being sued, even when the new thing is a simple improvement on something that's been done for decades. Worse yet, companies are afraid to buy new stuff from small guys because they can be sued just for using the invention (no indemnity against IP lawsuits, no sale).

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    2. Re:Beware what you ask for... by Teancum · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The purpose of patents, supposedly, is to help protect the garage tinkerer that comes up with a really cool idea to have exclusive rights over that invention.

      I've asked this question repeatedly on Slashdot and elsewhere, and I fail to get any sort of realistic reply:

      Do you personally know somebody (aka a close blood relative, somebody you knew in your youth and considered a "best friend", somebody who would be at your bedside in a hospital if you got into a serious accident merely by hearing you by name were hurt) who has ever earned more than the patent filing fees on any patent they've developed?

      I know personally (including my grandfather... who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in patent attorney fees over the course of many years) several people who have earned a patent, and many others who have invented some pretty interesting devices that definitely are worthy of patents. I also know of several people personally who have filed for patents due to work they've done for companies they worked for. Note: If you are an employee as an engineer, it is a standard contract that you will turn patentable inventions over to that company... often even if you come up with the idea outside of work. Certainly for stuff you invent "on the job". Some companies offer royalties on those inventions, but most companies simply assume your salary is compensation for those inventions.

      I do know some people personally who have earned money from copyrighted content (mainly books, although some movies). I don't know a single person who has even earned "pizza money" (aka a few bucks "profit" to buy a pizza or something very cheap.) above and beyond even the filing fees from patents. I also know of several very prominent people (notably Philo Farnsworth and Nikola Tesla, not to mention the Wright Brothers) who spent an insane amount of time in courtrooms trying to defend their patents, often without effect, and in the mean time these incredibly prolific inventors wasted literally decades of their life in a fruitless attempt to earn money off of ideas that "the system" said they deserved.

  4. In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Enough people who own congress are getting pissed off.

  5. hopefully some sense, great cases make bad law by raymorris · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hopefully they'll come up with some sensible changes that will address 96% of the problem.
    All too often, a headline grabbing bad guy like Intellectual Ventures results in a demand for HUGE new laws, smashing to bits a system that needed a tune up. The Patriot Act is an example - a few words needed to be changed in the law regarding how the NSA, CIA, and FBI can and cannot share information. 9/11 was big though, so people demanded big change, and ended up with the constitution shredded.

    1. Re:hopefully some sense, great cases make bad law by Nerdfest · · Score: 2

      The system needs far more than a tune-up.

    2. Re:hopefully some sense, great cases make bad law by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Once again the sig makes its point...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  6. software patents need to be cut down as well by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Informative

    software patents need to be cut down as well as well the patents on basic stuff.

  7. A suggestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Cancel any patent that contains the word "plurality" in the claim section.

  8. Where to sue by Firethorn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think the AC was talking about making the suing company sue the business in the business's home county.

    IE let's say the patent troll wants to sue Bobcat. Given that, as best as I can tell they're incorporated in West Fargo in North Dakota, that would mean that the troll would have to sue them in West Fargo, ND not East Texas.

    It means that the patent trolls can't judge shop anywhere as well.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
    1. Re:Where to sue by Trepidity · · Score: 2

      Wouldn't that bias the system against legitimate small inventors whose invention was ripped off by a giant corporation? They wouldn't be allowed to file suit near their home, but would have to travel to the state where the corporation is headquartered to sue them. And the corporation could itself judge-shop by placing its headquarters in districts known to be friendly to corporate defendants.

  9. If the FTC wants to cut bullshit patent suits by L.+J.+Beauregard · · Score: 2

    it can start by not issuing bullshit patents.

    --
    Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
    Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
  10. Fundamental issues by Skapare · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Patenting software is not a fundamental problem. Patent trolls are not a fundamental problem. Instead, these are the results and effects of the true fundamental problem, which is that the patent system itself is patenting anything that comes along that has no obvious conflicts, if even that. It considers its duty to be simply to record the patent ... and take all the money. It's real duty is to separate truly innovative inventions from all the junk.

    If something is truly innovative, then without the inventor having done it, it is likely to not have been done at all for many years (when based to genius thought), or for a substantial investment into the work needed to come up with it (when based on a huge amount of work). The vast majority of patents are not true innovation. Most of them are just broad brushes of things they see as inevitable and coming, anyway.

    It doesn't matter if it is done in software or hardware, if it is innovative. We should reward true innovation either way.

    It doesn't matter if someone comes along and buys out the inventor of true innovation. It's just like getting a cash advance on a time payment you expect to receive.

    The real problem in the system is all the junk patents that get issued.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    1. Re:Fundamental issues by Theaetetus · · Score: 2

      I think the patent office shouldn't get the money for patent applications. They should have a budget independent of the number of applications they process with a minimum goal for each year to get through that's reasonable.

      Sure we'll have a backlog, but when you can't get everything through and the patent office doesn't have a financial incentive to rubber stamp patents anymore it might cause change.

      Another idea, give patent reviewers an incentive (bonus) when they find prior art for a patent.

      The patent office makes money off of rejections, and therefore has a financial incentive to reject applications and have people re-file new ones. This explains why, for example, they initially rubber-stamp 85% of patent applications "REJECTED". This is as opposed to your implication that they allow everything.

      Also, patent examiners are graded on a point system, and they receive points for rejecting applications. It seems like your suggestions are all already implemented, and therefore may not actually address the problem.

  11. replied to the wrong post? by raymorris · · Score: 2

    Did you click Reply to the wrong post?
    I didn't say anything about large versus small defendants. I just thought it was interesting that 16 patent trolls file most of the suits - that the patent troll problem is a problem of a very few major assholes causing a lot of problems.

    To your point, while researching how many trolls there are, I learned that they are targeting smaller companies than before. Most defendants had sales of under $10 million (meaning profit less than $1 million, probably). I also found that fully 90% of the cost to defend is discovery.

    Putting those numbers together:
    16 nasty trolls are causing major problems by bullying small companies with abusive discovery tactics.

    One part of a solution, therefore, would be to limit discovery appropriately so companies can reasonably defend themselves. Maybe have plaintiffs put up a bond for the discovery cost, which they have to pay if the suit is ruled meritless.

  12. What about Apple? by Fettnabb · · Score: 2

    Apple is the biggest douchebag trolls of them all. The way they aquire patents and sue everybody is kind off disgusting. The Samsung case is in recent memory.