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Better Factories Through Role Playing

pacopico writes "A former Ford executive has taken his unique brand of factory training to the public. According to Businessweek, Hossein Nivi has set up a new company called Pendaran that forces people to endure a week-long, manic training simulation that's meant to produce safer, better workers. The participants — lots of people from the tech and military fields — get yelled at by actors while they try to assemble things like golf carts and airplanes in a simulation that mixes virtual tasks on computers with real world tasks. After their spirits get broken, the workers actually start functioning as a well-oiled team. It sounds both awesome and bizarre."

39 of 160 comments (clear)

  1. these people should be embarassed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    they are lunatics and assholes

  2. That does not sound awesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Getting yelled at until your spirit is broken? You think that sounds awesome?

    This isn't new or unique, we've been whipping slaves as long as we've had them. Dehumanize people, then work them like animals. Woo hoo sign me up.

    1. Re:That does not sound awesome by black3d · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ya, same thought crossed my mind. Chain gangs work like a well-oiled machine too, once you've broken their spirits. I'm not sure why breaking people's spirit is considered "awesome". Submitter must be in management? Probably sounds awesome to them, since "workers" aren't really people after all..

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    2. Re:That does not sound awesome by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not sure why breaking people's spirit is considered "awesome".

      If you RTFA, you'd see that they break people of their independent streak.
      By forcing them into shitty conditions and allowing them to fail over and over, flaws are exposed and eventually self-recognized
      The psychological pressure is there just to speed up the process.

      There's nothing special about this course, other than it's being done to white/blue collar workers instead of raw military recruits at boot camp.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:That does not sound awesome by CODiNE · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That's what the summary makes it sound like, but that's not actually what they're doing.

      The workers have access to help, safety information, proper procedures, etc...

      Instead of using their resources to work correctly and efficiently they do what people tend to do which is ignore all the rules and safety training as much as possible until disaster strikes.

      The course simulates disaster striking when procedures aren't followed. By forcing an instantaneous cause/effect environment they're making the workers see the effects of their actions. They fight and they fight until after a few days they stop running around cleaning up their messes and start to check the rules and do things the right way in the first place.

      Yeah it's a bit pavlovian, but it's not crushing anyone's spirit, it's teaching them personal responsibility.

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    4. Re:That does not sound awesome by asmkm22 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Depends. An awful lot of people really do need to have some fears, insecurities, and other walls broken down in order to really reach their potential. Without that, whenever something bad happens to them, like actually getting yelled at, or missing a deadline, or whatever, they just revert back to the good old human standard of denial and blaming others. Because that's what we do when confronted with something we aren't used to or comfortable with.

      It's kind of like how anyone who wants to get into boxing will have to learn to take a punch, at some point. Doesn't matter how good you are, if you fall apart with a single punch to the face, you'll never go anywhere. Sounds like they're roleplaying social versions of punches to the face.

    5. Re:That does not sound awesome by black3d · · Score: 5, Funny

      >If you RTFA

      Heresy!

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    6. Re:That does not sound awesome by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      Sounds like an MMO raid to me.

    7. Re:That does not sound awesome by rtb61 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course if you read reality into the lie, those people with and independent resistive streak, fail the course and are excluded from employment. Basically testing to ensure those people employed are meek, obedient and will accept abuse. That is all one week provides, the opportunity to exclude those not born to be slaves.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    8. Re:That does not sound awesome by Seumas · · Score: 2

      On the other hand, this is already done and has been for decades. It is called requiring a college degree. That's why it often doesn't matter what your degree is in or if it is related to the job -- just having the degree proves that you can sit down and shut up and do what you're told and buy into the institution for four or five years straight.

    9. Re:That does not sound awesome by Seumas · · Score: 2

      This sort of effort is likely to turn an otherwise hard worker with a great work ethic who just happens to think for themselves instead of being an obedient sheep into someone who plays along on the outside, but harbors a seething hatred on the inside and therefore constantly sabotaged and undermines your system at every turn they can.

    10. Re:That does not sound awesome by davydagger · · Score: 4, Interesting

      and the army, and the nation as a whole show some degree of loyalty back. The military is hardly a commericial outfit looking for exploit you for your labor.

      You can't get fired from the army, unless your convicted of a crime, generally pretty severe one too.

      Everyone gets no-cost healthcare. To include prescriptions.

      Probably the most proggressive pay-rating system in the entire country. Generals make a tiny fraction of what corporate officers make with similar amount of employees and/or responsibility, by a far margin. Enlisted make far more than their unskilled labor equivilants. When you talk about skilled labor, and total compensation, its about even with skilled labor.

      Not only is management pay more proportial, its also decided in a much more fair method, and its also far more transparent. Its all listed online in an easy to read convienant format, here from the official DFAS(defense finance and accounting services):
      http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html

      Essentially your base pay is decided by what your rank is on one axis, and how long been in the military on the other axis. Everyone gets the same base pay, regardless of race, gender, back room deals, how well they know top brass, etc...

      Also, you get special pays for doing things like being various kinds of doctor, sea pay, being on jump status, hazardous duty pay, combat pay, and other special bonuses for doing special, but important roles. These pays are generally flat rate, and listed on the same pay chart. All completely transparant.

      No-cost housing, formerly no-cost, but now dirt cheap meals provided, and subsidized shopping at the PX.

      There are many hazerous jobs, that you could die, loose a limb, or otherwise get critically injured. There is no job that the general public will do more to help you for on the job injuries. The people who experiment with robotic limbs, give soliders who lost them the first pick, over cops, construction, deep sea fishers, demolition workers, and even other potentially more dangerous work. The army wil also pay in full any injuries you get while serving them.

      After the army breaks you down, and makes you into a fighting machine, they are not going to just kick you to the curb after got all they could from you. Corporate America will.

      But I agree, apples to oranges, you can't compare federal service to private employement.

    11. Re:That does not sound awesome by skids · · Score: 2

      This. The summary was sensationalized, probably to stoke just such a "discussion" as above. Which is too bad because the TFA provides plenty of fodder without embellisment.

      While coping with stressful situations is a valuable skill to be teaching the workforce, I found it a bit ironic that one of the things the trainees were criticised for was not working to find the root causes of problems by cleaning up oil slicks instead of finding out how to prevent them, while apparently the management that sent these trainees into this program are content to teach their workers to deal with chaos instead of engineering it off the manufactoring floor.

      Also as with any such program that may appeal with to the prejudices of management, this procedure should probably be evaluated against similar techniques in an objective and impartial fashion.

    12. Re:That does not sound awesome by geminidomino · · Score: 2

      No, what you posted was typical, bog-standard anti-intellectual dribble. The failing of GPs degree wasn't in his reading skills, but in how not to overestimate the clueless.

  3. Or we could, you know... by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    just pay them better and give them better health benefits. But using military grade training and manipulation techniques works too I guess...

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    1. Re:Or we could, you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The beatings will continue until morale improves.

    2. Re:Or we could, you know... by brainboyz · · Score: 2

      Given how shitty American-built cars tend to be despite great pay and benefits, I think the training and manipulation might work better.

  4. I'm a level 14 welder! by kwiqsilver · · Score: 2

    Oh...is that not what they meant by role playing? I guess the dice could pose a safety hazard on the factory floor.

    1. Re:I'm a level 14 welder! by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Funny

      I put on my robe and wizard hat.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:I'm a level 14 welder! by AbsGeekNZ · · Score: 3, Funny

      Level 14 welder......but you still take orders from a level 2 manager with an intelligence score of 9....

    3. Re:I'm a level 14 welder! by Bigbutt · · Score: 2

      Managers use Charisma. Intelligence is a dump stat.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
  5. How much does it cost? by hedgemage · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sure, it may work, despite the dubious methodology, but who is actually going to pay to have their workers go through this? Since the bubble days of the 90's, training is an area that has been eliminated from virtually all budgets in favor of hiring only 'experienced' workers. No organization wants to pay for training anymore even when there is a shortage of experienced labor. I worked for a chip manufacturer that in the early-mid 90's put new production staff through a MONTH of 8-hour-a-day classroom training before they even got into the fabrication facility. After a couple years, it was down to 3 weeks, then 2, then 1, then layoffs. The modern management culture says that there is a limitless pool of cheap, experienced labor, so why train?

  6. The Marine Corps Called... by bughunter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After their spirits get broken, the workers actually start functioning as a well-oiled team. It sounds both awesome and bizarre.

    This has otherwise been known as "Boot Camp" or "Basic Training" for generations of soldiers.

    --
    I can see the fnords!
    1. Re:The Marine Corps Called... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2

      Attempts to apply military methods to civilian business tend to fail dramatically, because:

      1. Business is not war.

      2. Corporations are not armies.

      3. Corporate imitations of military training are almost invariably done by and for spoiled brat MBA types who love to think of themselves as macho warriors, but wouldn't last five minutes humping a pack and a rifle.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    2. Re:The Marine Corps Called... by Ignacio · · Score: 4, Interesting

      1. Business is not war.

      It's (generally) bloodless and unarmed, but the basics are all there.

      2. Corporations are not armies.

      Would it really be such a bad thing to view them as such?

      3. Corporate imitations of military training are almost invariably done by and for spoiled brat MBA types who love to think of themselves as macho warriors, but wouldn't last five minutes humping a pack and a rifle.

      So then have them go through the training as well. The top military had to go through it to get where they are, so why not the top corporate?

    3. Re:The Marine Corps Called... by tragedy · · Score: 2

      So then have them go through the training as well. The top military had to go through it to get where they are, so why not the top corporate?

      The top military are officers, not enlisted men. While enlisted soldiers can later go through officer's training, or even be promoted in extraordinary circumstances in wartime, generally military organizations aren't actually absolute meritocracies that promote people in stages all the way from the bottom to the top. Not that officers don't go through their own tough training, but some of the expectations are fundamentally different.

    4. Re:The Marine Corps Called... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2

      It's (generally) bloodless and unarmed, but the basics are all there.

      No they're not. Not even close. The defining aspect of war is two (or more) large armed groups trying to kill each other. Not in the metaphorical "we're going to kill the competition" way, but in the actual piles-of-corpses, starving-refugees, survivors-crippled-for-life way. If you think that's what business looks like, it's because you have no idea what war looks like, and I envy you your ignorance.

      The other basics of military life, like honor, discipline, and mutual respect? Only if you're very, very lucky. Since getting out of the service, I've worked for a couple of businesses that had these, and far more that didn't. Most other veterans will tell you the same. To be sure, there are compensations--even if I were physically up to it, I'd rather live my civilian life than be back in uniform, all in all--but in those aspects, the military world has the business world beat all to hell.

      Other posters have already addressed your other points. I urge you to read what they wrote carefully.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    5. Re:The Marine Corps Called... by mjwx · · Score: 2

      It's (generally) bloodless and unarmed, but the basics are all there.

      Not really, it's more like politics (lots of talking, some shouting but nothing ever gets done). MBA's like to pretend that business is war because it makes them feel like important generals, not just the douchebag with a nice suite they really are.

      Business is not war precisely because it lacks the destruction and death that acompanies war. Even cold wars claim 1000's of lives.

      Would it really be such a bad thing to view them as such?

      Do you really need to ask that question?

      In the mid 20th century we had corporations who practically had armies, we called it Fascism. In the modern day, we call them Mafia's.

      So then have them go through the training as well

      Yeah right. Good luck with that. They'll never do it.

      This kind of "training" is only for the workers. Managers are exempt.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  7. Oh, bullshit. by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Pendaran method, designed to force participants to rise above chaos and develop problem-solving techniques, is diametrically opposed, a sort of indictment of Six Sigma and other beloved corporate training regimes.

    No, it's just yet another stupid "corporate training regime" designed to separate MBAs from their and everyone else's money. Which wouldn't be a problem, except for the "everyone else" part--companies actually spend money on this kind of crap instead of on things like, you know, salary and benefits for the people who actually do the work that keeps the company in business. And there are more and more of these parasites infecting the corporate world every year, which ought to be enough to convince the Invisible Hand cultists that maybe there's something wrong with their cherished idea that the market weeds out inefficient management ... except they're all too busy congratulating themselves on buying into the latest bullshit fad to pay attention.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    1. Re:Oh, bullshit. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Commie. My skepticism about the invisible hand totally fucking vanished when I learned that I could spend other people's money to pay it to give me invisible handjobs.

      Clearly, you are just a envy-driven agent of class warfare and collectivism.

  8. Oh that... by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    until we have robots to build and run the tanks and jets that run our military industrial complex and enforce the will and desires of large corporations we still need a few factories. That's why we keep bailing out the auto industry. If we ever go to war for real you can't just build that stuff overnight. Wish I was joking...

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  9. American Cars are fine now by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    Europe's a big enough market that we started building them a bit better. Mostly because it was too expensive to run one production line for crap American Cars and one for Decent Euro cars. They're not great, but they'll do 140,000 miles.

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  10. ...military crap... there's better methods by Mirar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I believe I did this in the military, in the basic training (you know, the part where a drill sergeant shouts at you a lot).

    It was called "team building exercises".

    It did wonders to make us see all officers as idiots.

    Sure, it also made us help each other along the exercises and get to see the worst sides of each other. But I don't think it made us a more lean team. Really not worth the cost of how much we learned to hate the military and it's idiots.

    Doing that kind of crap to team up factory workers? Eh.

    Send them out on a week long survival course (one where you actually learn something and get to enjoy the nature) or even better, have them team up in paintball teams for a week. Or build fighting robots together, why not, without the shouting.
    Don't even have to involve actors. That would be enough to have them work together as a team, and they wouldn't actually hate the bosses' guts for the rest of their life.

    Only idiots deserve to get shouted at. Ever.

  11. Arbeit macht frei by PPH · · Score: 2

    Over the factory gates.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  12. Dad? by d'baba · · Score: 2

    Is that you?

  13. From the Desk of Linus Torvalds by Flere+Imsaho · · Score: 5, Funny

    " After their spirits get broken, the workers actually start functioning as a well-oiled team"

    Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

    L Torvalds

    --
    It gripped her hand gently. 'Regret is for humans,' it said.
  14. Er.. by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3

    >After their spirits get broken, the workers actually start functioning as a well-oiled team.

    You should know you can learn to work as a well oiled team without breaking anyone's spirits.
    Usually it involves good communication, clear roles, sensible motivation structures and weeding out the dickheads.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  15. Baskin-Robbins Manufacturing by some+old+guy · · Score: 2

    Wow, just what we need to stay competitive...another "flavor of the month" management scheme.

    Add this to Quality Circles, TQM, 5-S, Six-Sigma, LEAN, and all the rest of the psychobabble bullshit. This is what happens when MBAs and HR types try to do what engineers are taught to do.

    Maybe if the bean-counters didn't fuck the process up in the first place with impossible OE and COMG KPI's, revolving-door personnel policies, zeroed-out training budgets, and Run to Fail maintenance programs, they wouldn't need to piss money aware on ludicrous self-congratulation seminars.

    --
    Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
  16. Inhumane and Perverted by emaname · · Score: 2

    This sounds too much like the robber barons are regaining control. Workers are simply a resource (like water or electricity) meant to be consumed while incurring as little cost as possible and ultimately discarded.

    Having been in the military, I can say without fear of contradiction, that this is what boot camp was back during the Vietnam "conflict." It also was my son's experience during Desert Storm. Now, from what I hear, the DI's have been backed off somewhat. Nothing like the scene from "Full Metal Jacket."

    Just wait until someone with a sketchy psych profile is in the mix and somebody gets killed or commits suicide.

    --
    An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.