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Confirmed: F-1 Rocket Engine Salvaged By Amazon's Bezos Is From Apollo 11
willith writes "The folks at Bezos Expeditions have confirmed that faintly visible serial numbers on one of the large engine components they lifted from three miles below the ocean's surface match the serial number of F-1 engine F-6044, which flew in the center position on Saturn V number SA-506 — Apollo 11. With the 44th anniversary of the first lunar landing coming up tomorrow, the confirmation comes at an auspicious time. The F-1 engine remains to this day the largest single-chamber liquid fueled engine ever produced — although NASA is considering using a newer uprated design designated as the F-1B to help boost future heavy-lift rockets into orbit."
Does it qualify for Super Saver Shipping?
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
It belongs in a museum! </Indy>
The problem is that back then, all the stuff was essentially hand-built. These days, you let CNC machines do the dirty work. That essentially means that while the geometry of the nozzle etc. is still valid, you can't simply manufacture old stuff the new way. So the "lost paperwork" probably wouldn't be all that helpful anyway. Also, if you want to learn from the Saturn V hardware, you don't need to learn to swim.
Ezekiel 23:20
The "paperwork" has never been lost—every shred of documentation is intact and on file. In fact, engineers at Marshall Space Flight Center have been spending the past year busily disassembling and working with components from several stored F-1 engines. They've constructed highly detailed CAD models of the engines, and even done hot firing on one of the gas generator segments.
I penned a very detailed piece on this over at Ars Technica earlier this year, including photos and video of one of the gas generator hot-fires. The piece includes multiple interviews with senior propulsion scientists at MSFC, and thoroughly debunks the "but the blueprints are lost!" urban myth.
Who is this "intrepid conservator" who "kept digging for more evidence" and eventually found "Unit No 2044"??? Give the guy some recognition jeff!
I'm glad that the scientific community will benefit from these good auspices. NASA's in-house seers predict this will totally compensate for the bad omen earlier this year, when seven ravens got incinerated on the launchpad.
When my daughter was about 7, we took her to the Kennedy Space Center.
The look of joyous awe on her face when she came around the corner and looked up at the five F1s of the business end of the Saturn V there was timeless.
Why would he have to reverse engineer it? The designs are property of the United States citizenry.
And contrary to urban myth the designs were not destroyed or lost. However while we may have blueprints we no longer have the tooling, the machines and tools that make the Saturn 5 parts. Nor do we have the hands on expertise. That is the real reason we don't just crank out some more of these rockets.
does this mean his company can reverse engineer the rocket and sell the design to the highest bidder?
Are you asking if he can reverse-engineer an entire Saturn V rocket because he recovered a used and damaged engine that was sitting on the bottom of the ocean for 44 years? Do you understand how large a Saturn V is? Here is a component view of the Saturn V. That's not even a blueprint, not even close, it just shows where selected components are in the rocket. Look all the way at the bottom, at those engines, that's what he recovered. Why would you think he could reverse-engineer the rest of the rocket because he has an engine that has been corroding for 44 years?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
I don't qualify as a 1%er, but some of my friends do. I can tell you that Jeff ain't just a 1%er :)
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
It's a pity this engine wasn't from Apollo 13. I bet Tom Hanks would have paid a pretty penny for an engine from the rocket he piloted, and then Bezos could have used the proceeds to retire a wealthy man, just like Cameron did when he salvaged the Titanic.
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
Munitions designations are based on possible military uses not possible civilian uses. The fact that it could be used in an ICBM makes it a munition.
Thanks, that was a great article, but apparently it could still use more debunking, because that myth seems to be as firmly entrenched as ever.
No, the B-1 design belongs to Rockwell. The F-1 design belongs to Rocketdyne. Just because it was built for NASA, doesn't mean that NASA (or by extension, the American people) have any claim to the designs.
Yeah that personal knowledge is pretty important, as is the chain where one "generation" passes it on to the next. Not everything is in the blueprints or the manuals. That's the only reason 19 and 20 year old aviation mechanics in the US Air Force can keep a B-52 from the 1950s flying. Personal experience and tips passed on from a guy working on the B-52 since the 2000s, who received it from a guy who had worked on them in the 1990s, ... in the 80s, ... in the 70s, ... in the 60s, who got it from a USAF aviation mechanic from the 50s who worked side by side with the Boeing engineers and technicians who designed and built the B-52.
While NASA does not have the benefit of such a chain of knowledge regarding the Saturn 5 the young engineers at NASA and subcontractors are sometimes able to bring in retired engineers from the 60s and 70s to pass on what they remember.
Probably too late to pick up any moderation points, but no. The CAD files are considered export-controlled technology and are not publicly available. I asked this specifically when I was talking with the engineers involved in the effort. It's also why the article I wrote (linked up-thread) lacks images of the disassembled F-1 engine and its components. I desperately wanted to photograph the lab and its awesome assortment of rocket parts, but NASA and the US government did not allow pictures of export-controlled technology.
Some of those alloys used are such that a lot of those parts are going to look the same as new after four hundred years in seawater let alone forty years. The aluminium panels on the side will corrode in preference. Plus there's not a lot of oxygen deep in the ocean so corrosion is going to be very slow anyway - people are bringing up iron nails from ships four hundred years old that are in deep enough water.
From what I've heard from a person that restored a sunken ship's cannon, a few years in a tank of water with some electrodes and you could get all the diffused sodium and chlorine ions out of the thing and put it on display without having to worry about anything other than keeping the rain off it.