Slashdot Mirror
Japan's Military 'Needs Marines and Drones'
arisvega writes "The State of Japan is apparently seeking 'Deter and Respond' military capabilities, perhaps as an artifact from being 'embroiled in a bitter row over islands with China' and being 'deeply concerned by North Korea's nuclear ambitions,' as reported by the BBC. Since the end of WW II, under Article 9 of its post-war constitution, Japan is blocked from the use of force to resolve conflicts except in the case of self-defence. Now, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is looking to expand the scope of Japanese military activities — potentially a highly controversial move that would anger its neighbours. The post-war constitution was of course put in place by the then victorious west, who would now have an interest to fully back up this move: though Japanese officials claim that any new upgrades will not be used for preemptive strikes, the result will be arms and battalions installed close to The People's Republic of China, The Democratic People's Republic of Korea, and The Russian Federation. It will be interesting to track how this plays out."
rather than total anihilation by nuclear weapons it was decided to neuter it and allow it to wither away and die.
It is one of the few remaining succesful US foreign policies.
As always, follow de Monet...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Unless Abe has some unwisely-published rantings about the reestablishment of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere stashed in his closet somewhere, this seems like the sort of 'controversial' that will lead to grumblings and not a whole lot else.
It's not as though any of Japan's neighbors are necessarily going to like it; but nation-states maintaining armed forces, even potentially threatening ones, is sufficiently universal that there isn't exactly any complaints department who would take you seriously. "Dear the UN, I think Japan may be deciding to maintain a military larger than the one that the Americans let them keep after fighting a particularly nasty war with them, that's mean!"
It also wouldn't be a total surprise if some of the Japanese increase is aimed specifically at replacing the (never entirely popular) American bases in the area, which would leave the total amount of force roughly constant, just changing the label (and hopefully saviing the US some cash).
We sent Japan six divisions of marines not too many years ago. Now they need more? Those weren't enough?
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
How will this effect anime?
Just call everything self defense. It's like how congress can do pretty much anything just by saying interstate commerce and the supreme court even said that covered some things that happen completely inside one state because by not affecting interstate commerce they were affecting it
If you disarm somebody, you're morally responsible if they get attacked.
it better be the cool robot/jet anime kinda shit, and not the tentacle kind.
Not sure in which part of the Art of War he said that the best defense is to create new enemies, or promote new weapon races (even in fields where you can participate with widely available and cheap technology, like the internet based ones), but it should be somewhere because US is following that to the letter and the rest of their (for now) allies are following the example.
one Godzilla is not enough ???
The USA is in South Korea for one reason, and one reason only- to prevent North and South Korea reuniting, just as East and West Germany did a little while back.
Although most people have the memory of a goldfish, try to think back. EVERY pundit in the West told the sheeple the re-unification between the two Germanys was impossible, and even if it did become possible, it would take DECADES. When the USSR withdrew from East Germany, reunification happened virtually overnight. Many of Germany's current leaders are from the East. Many are of East-German secret service background.
If America left South Korea, North and South would reunify just as quickly, under the capitalist system of the South. Korea would become the OTHER power-house, and Japan's time would be over. Worse for Japan would be the desire to see Japan punished for war crimes that occurred during WW2- crimes that the Americans ensured went unpunished after the war ended.
Japan has always been the vile murderous bully of the region. It has no chance of regaining this status. As an economic powerhouse, Japan is in terminal decline. Japan is now preparing for a future where it will go to war again purely to keep its second place status next to China. America has ensured Japan is a major nuclear power, and by this I mean MILITARY nuclear power. The nuclear power stations America ensured Japan built are designed to produce the nuclear material for warheads.
Japan is looking to emulate Israel, another murderous racist state that exists by periodically attacking any neighbour that dares to build itself up economically or militarily. Japan is planning for an 'Israel' flavoured action where it would engage in a short war against a united Korea, putting back Korea's progress by a decade or two. Japan's population is as nationalistic and racist as it was in the years before WW2, so getting support for such a war would be child's play.
In this scenario, Japan expects the major powers to either be on its side, or neutral. In this thinking, Japan is literally insane. Rather than building up its armed forces, Japan should be reducing them, and doing everything to earn the forgiveness and friendship of its neighbours. A militaristic Japan reminds EVERY neighbour of Japan just how evil this nation has been in the past, and how little it seems to want to change in the present.
This part of the world has a LOT of unfinished business. If Japanese leaders had even one brain cell, they'd understand that every major Asian neighbour has an incentive to see Japan invaded and put down as a regional threat once and for all. For Japan, China and Korea, WW2 didn't end, but was just put on hold.
If the prevailing powers wish to enguage in offensive acts then Japan has no choice but to defend itself. I understand the ill will that Japan represents to the other asian nations during WWII but I for one wouldn't blame Japan for defending itself. Also Japan has a very moddern fighting force and any asian nation that wished to test it's defensive might should do so with caution.
As always, follow de Monet...
It will be interesting to track how this plays out ... unless you happen to live in a country or belong to a race that the Chinese think have historically wronged China, or a race that the Chinese see as being inferior, in which case it could be scary to see Chinese attitudes of resentful nationalism closely tracking those of Japan and Germany prior to WW II.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
What? You mean Japan doesn't already have giant robots? The manga was a lie?
Perhaps he should be more like the people of Aneyoshi, in that village carved into a 4 foot stone obelisk is a warning "Don't build your homes below this line".
That village survived thanks to the warnings from the past.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
unless you happen to live in a country or belong to a race that the Chinese think have historically wronged China
And that would include practically every 1st world nations in the planet. Perhaps some time for a history lesson on the foreign invasion of China in the past 100 or so years?
And quite contrary to your point, China has been quite peaceful in dealing with most of the European countries, except those that (surprise, surprise!), like Japan, are having economic problems and are trying to drum up support through sabre-rattling.
Is anyone surprised that Japanese politicians are taking a book from Americans? If your support drops, start a war?
Lets shove barbed wire up the vaginas of the enemy!
Fuck the Japs. Deserved the two nukes they got up the ass.
Drones with made in Japan optics.
Components made in Philippines, Vietnam and Laos.
A bit like any pro/consumer* camera but new Warlord friendly prices.
*autoland is extra
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Realize what this means! Drones, made in Japan. They'll fit into your pocket, be able to hit whatever square inch on this planet you tell them with more force than anything anyone else builds, come with a sleek, chrome polished design, are invisible to radar and whatever other detection you could come up with, cost way less to produce and of course in retail (but you'll never be able to afford spare parts, if you find any that is) and of course look like Mechagodzilla.
On a less funny note, ponder that one of the few areas the US are still at the cutting edge of technology and without any competition is arms. Now ponder what happened with EVERY other tech field the US led and Japan muscled in.
Think it will take long before the US will be using drones "made in Japan"?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Attack is best defense.
Hong Kong and Macau would like to have a chat with you.
Along with these other places.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Now that China isn't using them to spy on India!
Like, when the Japanese started rebuilding the Kido Butai? Personally, I'm untroubled by the announcement, but I think it's funny that "marines and drones" are getting notice, but the 27,000-ton carrier under construction and the two 19,000-ton carriers in commission get no mention.
Are you implying that the Japanese want to use the drones to break into Louvre?
you mean Marines and SCV's.
Japanese young and middle age men have been dropping from society as they realize how shitty and impossible finding relationships and constantly getting kicked by society. They're shamed and called "grass eaters" who work just enough to cover their own expenses and uses time and resources to develop the individual. Sounds like Men today in the West, a little? Yep.
Time to arm those 'Grass Eaters' .. it's time for those young men to stand up for the society that treated them so well ... yep. That force will bring a wrecking, as those grass eaters fight and die to defend .. the society that did so much for them? For wife/girlfriend/children? For self respect? Because we will FORCE them, like we always do, to go off and die so we don't have to think about you again...
Fresh from a few wars you can see the thanks returning USA combat solders being kicked to the curb, hidden away, ignored, and under supported. And the extremely disconnected relationship situation with women standards .. basically anyone but the 'hottest' 20% men get any opportunity, of any avg attractiveness and health women to raise a finger and have social calender and intimate schedule fully filled, when many young men whom in the past would have been 'on the market' to women are just walked past.
SO.. lets just keep going straight. Soon our society will grind to a halt as men all around start to notice all this and stop doing all those extra we've been doing through-out time, but which must not be important anymore.. If you valued your plumber you would not piss on his leg, not pay him, and throw him out yelling "future Rapist, Abuser,!!" etc... or if you did, you can't expect a prompt 3 AM pipes frozen call from you the next day.
Ladies, lets keep kicking the avg guy. Being male he doesn't matter, and when things start to break you can all start the shaming, except this time we will be deaf to it, busy doing important things for themselves, so please go away.
Men are not objects. If you are being treated as one, take a long hard look at how you plan to benefit, and what you need to do to keep yourself safe, educated, and happy. You deserve it!
Ancient Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times
1. This story is at least a few weeks late, Abe has been talking about this crap for a while, and nobody cares. 2. Without changing the constitution, they can build up the "self defense" army more. Every country says their army is for self defense anyway. 3. I seriously doubt he has the backing to actually amend the constitution. 4. The real reason for the Senkaku island dispute is not oil, but this: The territory of a country is basically defined as xx miles from the farthest out land. Having those islands under Japanese control extends Japan's territory quite a bit - and that includes keeping outsiders farther away from places where the u.s. army has set up camp. So not only Japan, but the US has a vested interest in keeping those islands just for the ocean territory they can claim with them. Japan's economy has been "bad" lately, so people don't want to spend more on things they don't have to. ("bad" means in comparison to the 80s bubble... I still see all of the bars and restaurants full every single night ...)
"We agreed we wouldn't have a standing army, not a flying robot one. My god, look at our movies!"
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
considering that their 'self-defense' force is far more powerful than many, many others' total military prowess.
[citation needed]
Drones will eventually provide enough offensive capability that you'll need ground troops only to invade and repel invaders. With ranges > 1000 miles, you can have a swarm of them protecting your shipping lanes. With enough of them, you can overwhelm any seaborne invasion force relatively cheaply. They'd be a good, cheap way to do power projection without the expense.
They need to start thinking about drone carrier bases instead of aircraft carriers.
Swarming technology will get good enough that you'll only need a few real pilots.
They're also prone to jamming, which is why they need some autonomy.
Overall, they're really pretty cost-effective. Link them to some image recognition technology and you'd have an automated seaborne monitoring system that optionally can drop some missiles on someone. What's not to love?
Japanese defense is based on maintaining a shadow capability couched in political vagueness, which can be instantaneously converted in moment of need to a first class military resource. For example IIRC they have no bioweapons level lab, but converting an existing one to a higher grade could be done in days if not hours. The applied physics capabilities of Japan could easily be turned to warheads if they really wanted to do so. It would be child's play for them to build a nuclear bomb, but the Japanese really hate nuclear weapons and for good reason.
Drones on the other hand are great. Developing them will push robotic weapon systems technology in general, and they can easily be routed with an explosive payload when their mission is ostensibly to monitor compliance. Instead of having coast guard boats that are not allowed to fire towards a belligerent vessel, drones can obtain shots of the faces of the enemy and you could even imagine drone "accidents". And when you get to a certain level of technology (supersonic speed, sub-orbital altitude) you can make devastating kinetic impacts that cannot be defended against.
And China has just been asking for it. The Japanese have shown a lot of restraint. So you can expect extremely high technology used behind systems that can have multiple purposes including something vaguely deployed for observation / news gathering in response to incursions. Stealth drones that take good pictures will also be very likely. Expect tons of money to go into flight capable robotics and science fiction / hollywood style weapons systems.
That's what they need to defend themselves.
Just what was it that persuaded Thatcher to give up Hong Kong island (which was given to Britain permanently, it was only the new territories that were under lease)? Was it a promise to remain peaceful?
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
Japan has hardly been sabre rattling. Nor have the Phillippines, India, Taiwan, and Vietnam been sabre-rattling. The sabre-rattling has been on the Chinese side.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
We're close to 70 years later at this point. I think that given the generations involved in the previous war in question are gone or rapidly fading, we can pretty much safely say Japan isn't the Japan which attacked Pearl Harbor at this point.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!