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Snowden Gave 15,000 Documents to Glenn Greenwald; Obama Cancels Russia Summit
sl4shd0rk writes "The American journalist Glenn Greewald, who published much of the initial info on illegal NSA programs, plans to release more revelations on the NSA spying machine in 10 days. 'The articles we have published so far are a very small part of the revelations that ought to be published,' Greenwald said on Tuesday. Greenwald further elaborated on public posturing which many nations are currently taking: 'The Brazilian government is showing much more anger in public than it is showing in private discussions with the U.S. government. All governments are doing this, even in Europe.'"
The U.S. decided to pull out of a summit with Russia next month, citing the decision to grant Snowden asylum as a factor: "However, given our lack of progress on issues such as missile defense and arms control, trade and commercial relations, global security issues, and human rights and civil society in the last twelve months, we have informed the Russian Government that we believe it would be more constructive to postpone the summit until we have more results from our shared agenda. Russia's disappointing decision to grant Edward Snowden temporary asylum was also a factor that we considered in assessing the current state of our bilateral relationship. Our cooperation on these issues remains a priority for the United States, so on Friday, August 9, Secretaries Hagel and Kerry will meet with their Russian counterparts in a 2+2 format in Washington to discuss how we can best make progress moving forward on the full range of issues in our bilateral relationship."
Screw you Obama for giving Russia, with all their human rights problems like Pussy Riot, the moral high ground here. Screw you for making the US look like a bunch of mean-spirited whiners that have lost their shit because Snowden revealed the emperor has no clothes. It's going to be a long time, if ever, until we get back the home of the free and the land of the brave.
One would think the US government cannot be provoked so easily and would never react in such a pathetic manner but we live in interesting times.
Obama goes out of his way to avoid pissing off the Russians (stops expanding NATO, stops deploying missile defense in Europe), but is willing to break the US Constitution to spy on his own country.
Yay hopenchange!
Come on, America. You let the whole world use the internet for over a decade, with everyone thinking/believing that their data is reasonably private. Now it turns out that - oops - you built giant digital systems capable of eavesdropping on, essentially, everybody; the whole fricking world. That is/was a SERIOUS mistake. Mistakes of this magnitude can only be fixed by someone credible taking responsibility for what has been done wrong, and seeing to it that the "mistake" in question - the digital snooping system that tracks everybody - being shut down, or at least constrained & regulated better. ---- What does America do instead? It goes after the "Whistleblower" who did something heroic by warning billions of innocent people: "Be careful what you do in the digital world. Your internet/phone data is not private any longer." ------ Own up to your mistakes, America. Then start the process of undoing said mistakes. ---- The cost of not doing this? America will go down in the history books as a superpower-bully, that is morally & ethically not much better than the USSR was in its heydays. ---- Own up to the mistakes. Then fix them.
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
That is what describes the world's rulers today. This reaction against Snowden and Manning confirm that.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
The Brazilian government is showing much more anger in public than it is showing in private discussions with the U.S. government
Private discussions are probably much more along the lines of "How much do you charge? Can we get a discount on this technology?"
Is president Obama going to throw a little temper tantrum too? Perhaps stamp his little feet, and hold his breath until he turns purple?
--Maybe he will tell his mommy, or the secret service!
Seriously. Tactics like this (Cancelling a peace negotiation summit, over ASYLUM being GRANTED!) only serve to clearly demonstrate that Obama was never interested in peaceful relations with Russia, only with getting its way. All it does is say loud and clear to Putin that his distrust of the US missile infrastructure being constructed in the middle east is indeed a threat to russian national security, that the US is unwilling to have to compromise on anything.
If they cant play by their rules, they will stop their feet, cry, and go home.
This is the fucking pinnacle of childishness.
What are the chances for Snowden to avoid going to prison if he returns home? Zero. Therefore it is quite clear Snowden will try to avoid it, no matter how ''correct' or 'righteous' he may be.
Not necessarily. I don't know that I agree with the view, but there is another: Give Snowden Immunity
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Reading into Glen Greenwald's comments and some of his other statements, it would seem that much of the spying is used not for security purposes, rather it's to give an edge to certain select US businesses.
If this is true, it would be huge. Citizens don't count for much in terms of US policy decisions, but an unfair boost to chosen businesses would tick off every other business in the US and abroad - the economic ramifications would be nothing short of tectonic.
I don't understand why that information would ever be released. Are they trying to provoke the US government? I think so.
There really is a difference between short-term advantage and long-term gain, and it's one of the ways to measure intelligence. If Glen should withhold the information for fear of ticking off the US government, he gives up the potential benefits of a future where the US has been forced to stop such corrupt and illegal practices.
The long-term gain is enormous and long-lasting, the short-term pain is fleeting and ephemeral. That's why he is releasing the information.
In the long run, we're all better off by having this information out in the open.
They're acting like spoiled, jilted children. I'm frankly ashamed of this sham of a government we have running the "show" at the moment. I use quotes because it's a circus, not a government. The american politicians of 1776 would have these morons in irons for the rest of their lives. Well, more accurately the poiticians of 1776 would have these morons surrendering after a bloody 4 year war for independence.
He of the "Nobel Peace Prize for nothing more than saying he'd be interested in talking"
Oh, no!
Nobel Peace Prize for nothing more than being not Bush
US wouldn't grant asylum to someone leaving Russia under similar circumstances and call it defending freedom and liberty
I do not disagree with you, but Russia probably wouldn't be embarrassed by someone like Snowden coming forward. They don't pretend to be "free".
I dunno. This sort of nonsense started pretty early on.
Alien and Sedition Acts
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I only hope Greenwald and his colleagues at The Guardian have also setup a Dead Man's switch to release everything worldwide in case of some 'tragic accident' ala Michael Hastings.
Otherwise, by saying 'in ten days', he's only started the countdown clock to his execution.
The slaveowning aristocratic hypocrites who made a mockery of "liberty" would be too outraged that Black people and women could vote and become president to care much about someone leaking classified info to foreign governments. Although if they thought about it they'd be upset about that as well.
I can see how both Mannings and Snowden have broken the law.
So has Obama. He deserves the same treatment Manning and Snowden will receive.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
They're trying to make the point of the furor and debate over the last month was triggered by only a small amount of data. A good portion of the conversation has been an attempt to deflect the attacks to Snowden himself, instead of what the information showed.
Still, it resulted in multiple Congressional hearings; a very close vote to defund aspects of the PATRIOT Act; and a public act of perjury by the DNI.
His point is all that was prompted by only the tip of the iceberg, and they still have the entire polar expanse to uncover.
He could also be putting various public officials on notice that they better not lie to the public about what they knew and approved of, because he can quite possibly publicly call them on it.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Why do you naively believe that the US will ever stop such spying? Every industrialized country on earth does it including the UK, Brazil, Russia, Germany, France, Italy, et al.. because they can and because they have the technological wherewithal to do it.
For a site filled with supposed tech enthusiasts I'm seeing an awful lot of naivete and misunderstanding of technology. Once you invent a technology it doesn't get uninvented.
Well, the initial stories said that Snowden had acquired the information and intentionally waited until after the last election to release it. The reasons that I remember being given were that Snowden had HOPED for some CHANGE in the Government and for some wacky reason thought that Obama would be the one to do it. Apparently the data was released after he determined that the hope and change thing wasn't gonna happen.
Right now it sounds to me a lot like blackmail - the documents will continue to be released as long as the US Gubmint starts acting like spoiled brats. We can see that this hasn't changed, so we can expect documents to continue to be released. If they're smart they'll break up the data from least to most damaging and release it in that order...the more the US resists decency, the worse their reputation will get until the Americans (or hell, other countries) get together to kick some ass.
it seems like most of the world, excluding us politicians/warwhores, really feels snowden acted. responsibly and in good faith. despite Snowdens motives do not loose sight of the fact that the NSA has redefined the law to suit their needs regarding metadata capture. this is not acceptable and needs to be answered by top brass. the NSA is not the law but they are acting as if.
regarding obamas playground tactics, that is very poor. he cannot deny the NSA has acted outside the law yet he pretends the problem is with Putin and his decisions. this is the act of a coward and politician and not a man with a conscience. at least Putin considered Snowden does have some rights regardless. tricky as this was to navigate politically I think Russia did the right thing and did so with prudence and regard.
Your idiocy is showing.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
If this is true, it would be huge. Citizens don't count for much in terms of US policy decisions, but an unfair boost to chosen businesses would tick off every other business in the US and abroad - the economic ramifications would be nothing short of tectonic.
I hate to be the cynic, but no, it wouldn't be huge. Politics has become the greatest spectator sport of the 21st century. Everyone has an opinion about what's wrong, but no one's willing to act on it enough to create substantial change.
We nearly hanged Nixon (and Ford for pardoning him) for Watergate. We have bigger scandals than Watergate happening today, scandals involving the usurption of our civil liberties by our own government, but no one's doing anything about it except complain. Like the boiling frog, we've become so acclimiated to these changes that I doubt we'll be able to leap out of the situation before it kills us.
I remember something that happened years ago uncannily like this whole Snowden affair.
Remember a decade back, when there was a guy running for POTUS as a decorated war hero at a time we were involved in two wars? The other side made some rediculous attacks on his war record. So did he react like a war hero? Perhaps attack his assailants in some way? Heck no! He sat around for months taking no action other than whining impotently about the lack of help from his opponent who wasn't even (provably) directly involved.
This is pretty much exactly how we've been handling this whole Snowden affair. Did we just send folks out to arrest him? No. So did we instead just quitely bide our time waiting for him to try to move to some non-shithole country so we can arrest him (in the meantime, leaving him effectively in a large jail)? Nope. We just sit on our ass for months whining impotently that Russia, who we tweak at every opportunity, should go out of their way to help us. Funny how similar these situations are.
So about that incompetent POTUS candidate...I wonder whatever happened to him.
I don't think we've hit that tipping point "yet." I still have hope that we never will. You're correct in that things have changed. What it took then and what it would take now are different animals.
I was making a specific point though, which you've highlighted, and which escaped a lot of other people, I think. The people who did what they did in 1776 would not stand for what our government is doing to/against us now. They fought for a LOT more than the garbage we're sucking down willingly now. Our government is completely off base and way outside the lines of what should be considered acceptable.
They're acting like the rotten kids who get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and then throw themselves on the floor screaming in rage at their parents, because they hope their show of emotion will distract from the sin they just commited. We're being led by a pile of toddlers.
That's cute to try and make an equivalence, but one is the president,
If the president does it, it's legal? Is that the argument you're going for?
And the president didn't break the law
The Constitution is the highest law of the land. Violating the Constitution is breaking the law. Impeachment may be our only recourse under the law, and our government is too corrupt to deliver justice, but Obama is a criminal all the same.
also he doesn't run the NSA
The president is commander in chief of the military, and the NSA is a branch of the DOD. Obama is responsible.
Furthermore, the electronic eavesdropping was signed off by FISA, congress and the supreme court
ALL of whom have conspired to violate our Constitutional rights. That's how little the rule of law matters in the US anymore.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Sure, there are millions of people who are essentially apolitical, don't expect everyone to be up in arms about this. Still, you're misrepresenting the millions more who ARE very concerned. It'll take awhile to filter through party affiliations (many dems are struggling to find a way to spin this, many repubs are loathe to go on the offensive bearing in mind their guys started us on this path) but this is way too big a deal to sweep under the rug and I bet there's a lot more to come out yet.
Even in the US, Obama would never be given the elimination of all Nukes. Nobody is that stupid.
He had no chance of getting that and neither did Jimmy Carter.
But the clear winner here is Putin.
He has American secrets withing reach if not already in-hand, plus he doesn't have to play kiss-ass with a buffoon in yet another pointless summit. Obama has no leverage here other than to pout.
Worse, its his own doing!
Instead of living by his campaign promises of open and honest government, under which he had an opportunity to rein in the excesses of post 9/11 security frenzy, he chose to double down or triple down, and start reading and archiving everyone's email, recording calls, and then insisting it was only meta-data.
So he's forced to cancel his trip because he knows Putin will laugh in his face at demands to turn over Snowden.
Even more telling: at precisely the point where Congress seems to be finally growing a pair: Obama unleashes his embassy closing of historic proportions, all based on an eavesdrop "conference call". (Like Al-Qaeda ever does that!).
I suspect nothing will actually happen, because it is entirely a fabrication by the NSA/CIA to divert attention and justify their violations of law. Of course there is the equal probability that they are just being played by Al-Qaeda setting up a phony conference call and mentioning grandiose plans, knowing it would be monitored.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
we changed the rules many years ago.
No, "we" didn't "change the rules". The corrupt pieces of shit in government decided on their own to ignore the rules. There's a difference.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
It is Obama and the Executive Branch's job to enforce existing law. They're doing that.
Perjury is against existing law. When can we expect prosecutions of the DNI for perjuring himself in front of Congress?
The 4th amendment is also existing law, and Obama isn't enforcing that one either. It's clear at this point that Obama's oath to defend the Constitution is completely broken, and he deserves impeachment at best.
Whether or not Snowden gets punished for breaking the law matters much less than whether or not Obama gets punished for breaking the highest law of the land. He won't, and that is how we know the rule of law is meaningless in the United States.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Then you have an inability to read plain English. The 4th amendment is clear, no warrants shall issue without probable cause and without specifically describing the places to be searched and things to be siezed.
There are two justifiable opinions here:
1) Generalized surveillance is bad, so the NSA must be stopped.
2) Generalized surveillance is good, so the Constitution must be amended to allow it.
Those are the ONLY defensible positions. Encouraging the government to break the law makes you nothing but a craven authoritarian.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
What happened so far:
The US government
* violated the privacy of Americans and foreigners by collecting information on all their communications, regardless of whether they are being investigated or not
* executes people in foreign countries without any trial
* tortures people in foreign countries without any trial
* invades foreign countries by fabricating evidence
* pursues journalists and whistle-blowers through all possible legal and diplomatic channels of pressure
* arbitrarily withdraws the passport of their own citizens without any legal process
* arbitrarily withdraws the right to fly in the US without any legal process
* demands extradition, trials of foreigners and fair treatment based on international law, but refuses it to others
Then, when these things turn up
* nobody is being held accountable [e.g. Bush, Rumsfeld]
* no compensation for the victims [e.g. torture victims, invaded countries]
* no guarantees it will not happen again
You can do whatever you want within your borders, and choose the rules you want to live by. But don't take your stupid decisions out on everyone else. And for the love of god, EU & UN, stand up to this bully.
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.