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Snowden Gave 15,000 Documents to Glenn Greenwald; Obama Cancels Russia Summit
sl4shd0rk writes "The American journalist Glenn Greewald, who published much of the initial info on illegal NSA programs, plans to release more revelations on the NSA spying machine in 10 days. 'The articles we have published so far are a very small part of the revelations that ought to be published,' Greenwald said on Tuesday. Greenwald further elaborated on public posturing which many nations are currently taking: 'The Brazilian government is showing much more anger in public than it is showing in private discussions with the U.S. government. All governments are doing this, even in Europe.'"
The U.S. decided to pull out of a summit with Russia next month, citing the decision to grant Snowden asylum as a factor: "However, given our lack of progress on issues such as missile defense and arms control, trade and commercial relations, global security issues, and human rights and civil society in the last twelve months, we have informed the Russian Government that we believe it would be more constructive to postpone the summit until we have more results from our shared agenda. Russia's disappointing decision to grant Edward Snowden temporary asylum was also a factor that we considered in assessing the current state of our bilateral relationship. Our cooperation on these issues remains a priority for the United States, so on Friday, August 9, Secretaries Hagel and Kerry will meet with their Russian counterparts in a 2+2 format in Washington to discuss how we can best make progress moving forward on the full range of issues in our bilateral relationship."
Screw you Obama for giving Russia, with all their human rights problems like Pussy Riot, the moral high ground here. Screw you for making the US look like a bunch of mean-spirited whiners that have lost their shit because Snowden revealed the emperor has no clothes. It's going to be a long time, if ever, until we get back the home of the free and the land of the brave.
That is what describes the world's rulers today. This reaction against Snowden and Manning confirm that.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
The Brazilian government is showing much more anger in public than it is showing in private discussions with the U.S. government
Private discussions are probably much more along the lines of "How much do you charge? Can we get a discount on this technology?"
Is president Obama going to throw a little temper tantrum too? Perhaps stamp his little feet, and hold his breath until he turns purple?
--Maybe he will tell his mommy, or the secret service!
Seriously. Tactics like this (Cancelling a peace negotiation summit, over ASYLUM being GRANTED!) only serve to clearly demonstrate that Obama was never interested in peaceful relations with Russia, only with getting its way. All it does is say loud and clear to Putin that his distrust of the US missile infrastructure being constructed in the middle east is indeed a threat to russian national security, that the US is unwilling to have to compromise on anything.
If they cant play by their rules, they will stop their feet, cry, and go home.
This is the fucking pinnacle of childishness.
Own up to your mistakes, America.
"America" is not a person. Did you mean to say Obama?
When Obama was elected, he made very different promises, including several very emphatic speeches about the need for protecting whistle-blowers. One could argue it was part of the reason he got elected...
Politicians should sign their platform as a contract and be held criminally liable when they deviate from non-ambiguous promises as soon as they actually are elected.
Reading into Glen Greenwald's comments and some of his other statements, it would seem that much of the spying is used not for security purposes, rather it's to give an edge to certain select US businesses.
If this is true, it would be huge. Citizens don't count for much in terms of US policy decisions, but an unfair boost to chosen businesses would tick off every other business in the US and abroad - the economic ramifications would be nothing short of tectonic.
I don't understand why that information would ever be released. Are they trying to provoke the US government? I think so.
There really is a difference between short-term advantage and long-term gain, and it's one of the ways to measure intelligence. If Glen should withhold the information for fear of ticking off the US government, he gives up the potential benefits of a future where the US has been forced to stop such corrupt and illegal practices.
The long-term gain is enormous and long-lasting, the short-term pain is fleeting and ephemeral. That's why he is releasing the information.
In the long run, we're all better off by having this information out in the open.
They're acting like spoiled, jilted children. I'm frankly ashamed of this sham of a government we have running the "show" at the moment. I use quotes because it's a circus, not a government. The american politicians of 1776 would have these morons in irons for the rest of their lives. Well, more accurately the poiticians of 1776 would have these morons surrendering after a bloody 4 year war for independence.
They're trying to make the point of the furor and debate over the last month was triggered by only a small amount of data. A good portion of the conversation has been an attempt to deflect the attacks to Snowden himself, instead of what the information showed.
Still, it resulted in multiple Congressional hearings; a very close vote to defund aspects of the PATRIOT Act; and a public act of perjury by the DNI.
His point is all that was prompted by only the tip of the iceberg, and they still have the entire polar expanse to uncover.
He could also be putting various public officials on notice that they better not lie to the public about what they knew and approved of, because he can quite possibly publicly call them on it.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Well, the initial stories said that Snowden had acquired the information and intentionally waited until after the last election to release it. The reasons that I remember being given were that Snowden had HOPED for some CHANGE in the Government and for some wacky reason thought that Obama would be the one to do it. Apparently the data was released after he determined that the hope and change thing wasn't gonna happen.
Right now it sounds to me a lot like blackmail - the documents will continue to be released as long as the US Gubmint starts acting like spoiled brats. We can see that this hasn't changed, so we can expect documents to continue to be released. If they're smart they'll break up the data from least to most damaging and release it in that order...the more the US resists decency, the worse their reputation will get until the Americans (or hell, other countries) get together to kick some ass.
it seems like most of the world, excluding us politicians/warwhores, really feels snowden acted. responsibly and in good faith. despite Snowdens motives do not loose sight of the fact that the NSA has redefined the law to suit their needs regarding metadata capture. this is not acceptable and needs to be answered by top brass. the NSA is not the law but they are acting as if.
regarding obamas playground tactics, that is very poor. he cannot deny the NSA has acted outside the law yet he pretends the problem is with Putin and his decisions. this is the act of a coward and politician and not a man with a conscience. at least Putin considered Snowden does have some rights regardless. tricky as this was to navigate politically I think Russia did the right thing and did so with prudence and regard.
Yes everybody does it but the NSA has taken it to a level completely unprecedented thanks to the vast troves of information flowing through the worlds fiber optics now and the fact they have tapped nearly all of it.
The real problems start when governments start spying on its own citizens, with no limits, and with modern technology. Its now possible to spy on just about everything everyone does, email, phone, social networks, credit card purchases, what books you read, how much electricity you use, where you go and to keep that information indefinitely. Its quite possible they can use the now ubiquitous camera's and microphones we all carry all the time to listen to and watch everything targetted people are doing.
It is now possible to use this information along with machine learning to automatically spot people who have almost any kind of interest, habit, bias or political leaning. You just need to compose the right query.
When does it get really bad. When the NSA, or someone with access to the NSA firehose, starts spying on the all the politicians, journalists and judges that form the government that is supposed to oversee them. Once you have dirt on all of them you control them. Once you control them the checks and balances essential to a democracy are completely gone.
You will quickly find yourself in a totalitarian state, something the U.S. and U.K. have been rushing towards at breakneck speed since 9/11. Only thing stopping it is if the people with all this power engage in self restraint. Chances are some of the powers that be, have been and will be haven't and wont.
@de_machina
I don't think we've hit that tipping point "yet." I still have hope that we never will. You're correct in that things have changed. What it took then and what it would take now are different animals.
I was making a specific point though, which you've highlighted, and which escaped a lot of other people, I think. The people who did what they did in 1776 would not stand for what our government is doing to/against us now. They fought for a LOT more than the garbage we're sucking down willingly now. Our government is completely off base and way outside the lines of what should be considered acceptable.
They're acting like the rotten kids who get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and then throw themselves on the floor screaming in rage at their parents, because they hope their show of emotion will distract from the sin they just commited. We're being led by a pile of toddlers.
Sure, there are millions of people who are essentially apolitical, don't expect everyone to be up in arms about this. Still, you're misrepresenting the millions more who ARE very concerned. It'll take awhile to filter through party affiliations (many dems are struggling to find a way to spin this, many repubs are loathe to go on the offensive bearing in mind their guys started us on this path) but this is way too big a deal to sweep under the rug and I bet there's a lot more to come out yet.
We nearly hanged Nixon (and Ford for pardoning him) for Watergate.
More precisely, the Democrats in Congress nearly impeached and removed Nixon from office with the expectation that this would be followed up by criminal charges. It wasn't going to hang Nixon, but it was going to lock him up for a while. Gerald Ford's pardon was a damn shame, because it cemented the idea in Washington that the president is above the law (no matter what Stephen Seagal does). I'm reasonably certain part of the story was that the Clinton impeachment scared Democrats into making a tacit agreement with Republicans: Don't go after our crimes, we won't go after yours. And because there is no other party with any real power, the result is that both Democratic and Republican presidents can commit crimes with impunity. The intelligence agencies happily collect / create enough dirt on anyone else who might challenge them as well.
It's not about the citizens accepting what's going on. It's about the citizens hating what's going on, but seeing no viable paths to changing it. If you elect new congresscritters or a new president, that will simply change which don is currently in charge. If you protest on the street, your protest will be ignored by the media and you may well get your ass kicked by police. If you petition your government, you will get a form letter in response. If you file a lawsuit, it will be dismissed out of hand because of state secrets privilege. If you try a criminal approach, you'll be shot down by a heavily militarized police force. If you form an organization that starts having any kind of real effects, then you and your group will have assets frozen, and if you're truly effective then you will be the target of a worldwide manhunt regardless of the law or treaties or diplomatic concerns.
I am officially gone from
What happened so far:
The US government
* violated the privacy of Americans and foreigners by collecting information on all their communications, regardless of whether they are being investigated or not
* executes people in foreign countries without any trial
* tortures people in foreign countries without any trial
* invades foreign countries by fabricating evidence
* pursues journalists and whistle-blowers through all possible legal and diplomatic channels of pressure
* arbitrarily withdraws the passport of their own citizens without any legal process
* arbitrarily withdraws the right to fly in the US without any legal process
* demands extradition, trials of foreigners and fair treatment based on international law, but refuses it to others
Then, when these things turn up
* nobody is being held accountable [e.g. Bush, Rumsfeld]
* no compensation for the victims [e.g. torture victims, invaded countries]
* no guarantees it will not happen again
You can do whatever you want within your borders, and choose the rules you want to live by. But don't take your stupid decisions out on everyone else. And for the love of god, EU & UN, stand up to this bully.
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.