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Obama on Surveillance: "We Can and Must Be More Transparent"

Today President Obama held a press conference to address the situation surrounding the NSA's surveillance activities. (Here is the full transcript.) He announced four actions the administration is undertaking to restore the public's confidence in the intelligence community. Obama plans to work with Congress to reform the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to give greater weight to civil liberties, and to revisit section 215 of the PATRIOT Act, which is the section that allowed bulk collection of phone records. (Of course, "will work with Congress" is a vague term, and Congress isn't known for getting things done lately. Thus, it remains to be seen if anything substantive happens.) Obama is ordering the Dept. of Justice to make public their legal rationale for data collection, and there will be a new NSA official dedicated to transparency efforts. There will also be a new website for citizens to learn about transparency in intelligence agencies. Lastly, a group of outside experts will be convened to review the government's surveillance capabilities. Their job will include figuring out how to maintain the public's trust and prevent abuse, and to consider how the intelligence community's actions will affect foreign policy. In addition to these initiatives, President Obama made his position very clear about several different aspects of this controversy. While acknowledging that "we have significant capabilities," he said, "America is not interested in spying on ordinary people." He added that the people who have raised concerns about privacy and government overreach in a lawful manner are "patriots." This is in stark contrast to his view of leakers like Edward Snowden: "I don't think Mr. Snowden was a patriot." (For his part, Snowden says the recent shut down of encrypted email services is 'inspiring.') When asked about how his opinion of the surveillance programs have changed, he said his perception of them has not evolved since the story broke worldwide. "What you're not seeing is people actually abusing these programs." Obama also endorsed finding technological solutions that will protect privacy regardless of what government agencies want to do.

32 of 537 comments (clear)

  1. Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nuff said.

    1. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by killkillkill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously. I don't want them to be transparent and tell me how they are collecting my communications. I want them to NOT COLLECT my communications without a warrant that has been issued upon just cause.

    2. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by intermodal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Agreed. The problem is, Obama's idea of transparent is to attack Lavabit.

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      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    3. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by Mitreya · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Agreed. The problem is, Obama's idea of transparent is to attack Lavabit.

      In a such transparent way, that the owner of Lavabit is apparently not allowed to say what happened, either.

    4. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by jandrese · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This was clearly a case of "I'll say something that sounds reassuring, while waiting for this to blow over so we don't have to change anything."

      Having Congress look at it was a very funny joke, since they're in recess and useless anyway.

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      I read the internet for the articles.
    5. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by gl4ss · · Score: 5, Interesting

      they wanted him to install backdoors so that lavabit wouldn't work like it claims(and attacks to be delivered upon access).

      for other kind of action they could just have bust in and take the servers. maybe they were going to take over it by spooks so he had to officially close it down before that.

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      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    6. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh transparency was never about government, it was always about you.

    7. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I second that EMOTION! seriously, passions are running hot on both sides... hopefully Obama's steps today will provide a "cooling off period" so we can step back and look at this from all angles.

      I have some news for you :

      No cooling off period or further looks are necessary.

      The facts are in and the government has been illegally SPYING ON ITS OWN CITIZENS.

    8. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm so fucking sick of this president. On every issue that has opposition he always takes the stance of "Oh you don't agree with me, I must not be explaining it well enough" NO SHITHEAD WE DISAGREE! We understand you just fine, we just don't want your stupid bullshit policies.

    9. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by NotBorg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Without transparency, how will you know when the bullshit stops?

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    10. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And Snowden, and Assange, and Putin for protecting Snowden from getting a rendition ride, hell I could go on all day just listing the underhanded shit that has been started, continued, or in many cases expanded under this administration.

      I do hope this serves as a valuable lesson though, that just because somebody has a D after their name don't mean shit, actions speak louder than words and the only ones who can say Obama is left wing anymore is Fox news. To the rest of us it should be obvious by now what we are seeing is Dubya's third and fourth terms, just wrapped in touchy feely rhetoric to fool the masses and redirect heat away from the POTUS. His slogan should be "Yes we can (but I won't)".

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    11. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by anagama · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not just spying, but using this for ordinary crime. Kind of like how RICO was once upon a time ONLY for going after the mafia and then it morphed into something that applies to even the kid selling joints on the street corner.

      The selling point for this program, to get people to accept it, is "terrorism", but it's already being used unconstitutionally by law enforcement for ordinary shit:

      DEA Parallel Construction: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805

      IRS Parallel Construction: http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/08/reuters-irs-manual-instructed-agents-how-to-hide-secret-deansa-intel/

      Fruit of the poisonous tree: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree

      This will just expand to the point that unconstitutionally gathered evidence will be used for everything down to parking tickets, like RICO metastasized into what it is now.

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      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    12. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Congress could very easily put a stop to this. Congress does not want to. The majority and minority leadership in both houses know what is going on -- this stuff is not news to them. The laws are working as intended. What they all fear is explaining their own position to the American people. Our Congresscritters are going to keep their mouth shut and let the heat fall on the president.

    13. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by geminidomino · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What "steps?" Pretty words and a website?

      He gave us lots of "pretty words" in 2008, and then completely ignored them and instead fell right in line with every one of his predecessors; doing the same obnoxious shit with his own special brand of "fuck you" on top.

      A website? Really? Have you already forgotten how well the last one worked out?

      How is coming down on the NSA for a lack of transparency going to work? He threw that word around back then, too. Obviously, he's using a different definition than the rest of us.

      He hasn't taken any steps, much less the one that would actually count: the removal and indictment of the sons of bitches who actually committed these crimes.

      He's spinning this.

    14. Re:Better idea, shut it down - it's illegal.... by bogjobber · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Clinton almost got impeached because he got his dick sucked by someone he wasn't married to, so please save the partisan nonsense. People weren't marching against Bush because they dislike Republicans. They were marching because he was starting a war under false pretenses.

      Even then, for the most part the majority of our country were just fine with everything Bush was doing until it become apparent to even the most ill-informed that the Iraq war was a giant clusterfuck. Pretty similar to the Obama presidency, really. For the most part the President gets to do whatever the hell he wants for four or five years before the general public catches on. It has nothing to do with their political affiliation.

  2. We Can and Must Be More Transparent by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Except that we all know he's actually talking about the PEOPLE being made more transparent, NOT the Government.

    1. Re:We Can and Must Be More Transparent by Frobnicator · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Less than 48 hours ago with Jay Leno he said, and repeated: "We don't have a domestic spying program."

      Today he admits that some spying is taking place, but they are "not interested in spying on ordinary people", and the domestic spying program has safeguards to help keep it from being abused.

      That is quite a backstep.

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    2. Re:We Can and Must Be More Transparent by Mitreya · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Less than 48 hours ago with Jay Leno he said, and repeated: "We don't have a domestic spying program."

      The program is still classified, so it does not exist. Just like drones bombing several countries do not really exist.

      and the domestic spying program has safeguards to help keep it from being abused.

      It looks like Snowden was the only safeguard NSA had.

  3. Experts by Bolloney · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Lastly, a group of outside experts will be convened to review the government's surveillance capabilities. Their job will include figuring out how to maintain the public's trust... " So they're hiring a PR firm?

    1. Re:Experts by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So they're hiring a PR firm?

      Likely, yes.

      I don't believe a single thing about this is going to change, they're just trying to manage the message and sell it to us.

      But given how many public statements about this have been contradicted within a week or two by other facts, I fully expect this to be more of the same -- "Honestly, we're not doing it. OK, maybe we're doing it, but we're doing it under strict control. OK, maybe we're doing other things that we don't want to admit to. Hey look, a pony".

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      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Experts by PPH · · Score: 5, Funny

      I nominate Edward Snowden to head the group. He's about as far 'outside' as one can get right now.

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      Have gnu, will travel.
  4. Secret Courts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When the secret courts are open to public review and observation there might be more transparency and trust. Till then it's just smoke and mirror talk.

  5. Results by Major+Ralph · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My confidence in this actually accomplishing anything is zero.

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    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
  6. The O in Obama stands for Zero Credibility by Blue+Stone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "What you're not seeing is people actually abusing these programs." - Obama.

    You're not seeing the abuse, therefore it's not happening. Good one. Alternatively, the system IS the abuse, and we're all very well aware of it now, thanks to that courageous Mr. Snowden.

    By the way, it's not OK to spy on Americans, but it is fine to invade the privacy of everyone else on the planet? Hmm. As a non-American, I can't say I agree.

    --
    Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    1. Re:The O in Obama stands for Zero Credibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      "What you're not seeing is people actually abusing these programs." - Obama.

      You're not seeing the abuse, therefore it's not happening.

      Actually, we are seeing the abuse.

      TL;DR: The DEA is obtaining information from the NSA, then pretending that their investigation didn't use it (because it would be inadmissible in court). They then practice "parallel construction" and reconstruct a fake trail of evidence to cover their tracks. They never share this with the defense counsel. This undermines pretrial discovery rules and the entire justice system.

  7. Transparency by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Transparency is not the issue. Constitutionality is.

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  8. Fox in the henhouse by TrumpetPower! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd have a lot more trust in Obama if he weren't the one responsible for ramping it up to the level it is today. (If not, remind me again where the buck stops?)

    Also, of course they're not interested in "ordinary" people. The instant they're interested in you, you're no longer ordinary.

    Imagine Snowden was some political candidate's nephew. And imagine that, instead of leaking details of the entire operation to the press, he leaked details of the other candidate's campaign strategies (or sexual exploits) back to his uncle. You know, like the Watergate breakins?

    If a junior flunky can do that sort of thing and get away with it, what makes you think it's not standard operating procedure?

    The NSA has the power to utterly control the entire political process with an iron grip -- and that's before we start to worry about political dissidents being extraordinarily renditioned.

    If Obama truly wanted to "address the situation," he'd completely dismantle the NSA. But, somehow, even if he truly wanted to, I rather doubt the NSA would let him....

    Cheers,

    &

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    All but God can prove this sentence true.
  9. What Obama didn't say... by firewrought · · Score: 5, Insightful
    • Full investigation and prosecution of NSA officials.
    • Repeal of retroactive warrants, retroactive teleco immunity, secret NSL orders, and other extra-judicial bullshit.
    • Immediate legislation to broaden the definition of domestic surveillance and establish strict penalties for companies who cooperate with it.
    • Amnesty/whistleblower protection for Snowden. Oh, and his passport back.
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    -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
  10. "What you're not seeing is people actually abusing by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    > "What you're not seeing is people actually abusing these programs."

    That's like saying, it is OK for the government to keep a loaded gun pointed at the head of every citizen because they haven't shot anyone.

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    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  11. Re:Hope and Change by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Anyone who thinks anything Obama says (or does) will result in your privacy being respected and warrantless surveillance ended is delusional.

    Ah, if only there were some other branches of the government that were tasked with supervising and controlling the executive branch. Too bad we don't have any.

    Yea, well, perhaps if "Checks and Balances" hadn't been replaced with "Collusion and Mutual Back-Scratching..."

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  12. Re:Hope and Change by JohnG · · Score: 5, Interesting

    False. Bush's Patriot act expired in 2011. Obama signed the extension. Anything that happens under the Patriot act now is Obama's fault, not Bush's. If it is company policy to beat employees who do wrong, and a new boss takes over and keeps beating people who do wrong, do you blame the old boss, or the new boss when the new boss beats you?

  13. Re: Hope and Change by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because they can harass anyone they want at any point in the future. If any corrupt person (and there are many and will be many) manages to get into the government, suddenly you have a problem on your hands. Surely you're not so naive as to trust the government? History gives you no reason to do such a silly thing.

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