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New Tool To Measure Consciousness

bmahersciwriter writes "The line between consciousness and non-consciousness is thin, hard to define and, as the Terri Schiavo case taught us, often rife with ethical quandaries. A research team is developing a tool that will be able to quantify just how conscious a person is, which could prove to be quite useful for research and clinical practices. From the article: 'The metric relies on the idea that consciousness involves widespread communication between different areas of the brain, with each region performing specialized functions. Loss of consciousness during sleep or anaesthesia, or from brain injury, may be caused by the disengagement of brain regions from one another.'"

12 of 151 comments (clear)

  1. Maybe they could use this as a test by korbulon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To determine if you're eligible to vote. Or have kids. Or be allowed outside your cage.

  2. Low End Calibration Subject by joelleo · · Score: 4, Funny

    congress

    --
    "In the end, there is simply no weapon more devastating than the truth, delivered in just the right way." - tnk1
  3. Great, another workplace metric... by vomitology · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder how long till my ATC (Average Time Conscious) shows up in my annual review...

    --
    ~Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
  4. Terri Schiavo, what? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unless my memory is grossly faulty here, Schiavo was considered an atypically unambiguous case medically (with massive amounts of brain that just weren't present anymore, much less electrically active or not); but was a sordid story in messy family feuds being adopted by culture warriors, diagnosis-by-video being performed by histrionic congressmen, and whatnot.

    A better understanding of the neurological correlates of consciousness would certainly be a welcome development; but it would never have saved that farce.

    1. Re:Terri Schiavo, what? by EmagGeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There was no ethical quandary in the Schiavo case. She was not conscious, and more or less had no brain to be conscious with. It was a clear cut case of a lost cause where the body was only being kept alive to fuel the aforementioned family feud (her parents were not a big fan of her husband, IIRC, and did not want him inheriting her estate, so they fought the issue until her estate was gone and her husband bankrupt, then finally let it go).

    2. Re:Terri Schiavo, what? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There was no ethical quandary in the Schiavo case. She was not conscious, and more or less had no brain to be conscious with. It was a clear cut case of a lost cause where the body was only being kept alive to fuel the aforementioned family feud (her parents were not a big fan of her husband, IIRC, and did not want him inheriting her estate, so they fought the issue until her estate was gone and her husband bankrupt, then finally let it go).

      The Schiavo case was an ethical travesty. Why was she kept hooked up all that time? Because of "God". It was "immoral" to "kill" her.

      Bullshit. "God" wanted her to go ahead and die. If He hadn't, He would have kept her alive, even without the equipment. It wasn't like this was temporary life support to give her time to heal. It was a prison that she couldn't escape from - worse than Guantanamo, worse than Abu Graibh, worse than the worst prison ever built by pre-technological man. Whatever consciousness she might have had was trapped in a body with no ability to move, to interact, and even to sense, for the most part. If she had been revivable after all that, she probably would have been insane. If I was to do deliberately what they did to her, "torture" would be the least unkind word used.

      And for what? If you believe that Jesus had a place waiting for her, why forcibly restrain her from joining him? Even if you believe she was destined for Hell, she was already there. What was she supposed to be doing in there? Meditating on her sins? We don't grant as much reflection time for mass-murderers. Not in Florida, which is nearly as Old-Testament as Texas when it comes to capital crimes.

      If there is any mercy in the Universe, God or no God, her consciousness fled long before they pulled the plug. Because with friends like those, who needs demonic enemies?

  5. Makes sense by gweihir · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When the complexity of the mechanism falls below a certain threshold, it makes sense that consciousness is not generated/emerged/attached/whatever anymore. Fascinating research, and may be a first step into finding out what consciousness actually is (current state of research: nobody has a clue).

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  6. It'd be interesting to see the testing expanded by Two99Point80 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wonder how us folks on the autism spectrum would measure,.. and how an individual's reading changes under different circumstances.

  7. Define consciousness please by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Consciousness is defined as, roughly, conscious personal experience. Nervous system-bearing organisms have it and tables don't.

    The thing is, when considered as a phenomena itself, it's kind of weird.

    It seems to inflict on some forms of matter (nervous systems) something non-corporeal and unnecessary. Newtons laws and QM don't need it to account for why anything at the particle level happens- we'd all be mouthing the same words, making the motions , living the same lives and generating the same collective world history without it according the our best developed theories of matter energy and causation.

    In theory, we could all be as mindless and devoid of consciousness as tables and from an outside observer's POV, nothing would change in our lives, our speech or all of human history.

    But it's not like that.

    We *know* we have conscious experience. Suppose you're a well adjusted modern scientist who doesn't busy himself with fanciful notions of non-corporeal "stuff" (a contradiction in terms , in fact). You';re a thorough-going materialist. What does the fact of conscious experience imply for you?

    It implies that conscious experience is a fact about material, perhaps suitably organized. Beyond the fact that *that is just weird* a basic question is- what characteristics of material organization gives rise to it ? Are there degrees of it. Minsky asserted (Society of Mind) that thermostats have a primitive form of it (they react to their environment in a feedbacky kind of way). This is not a far out thought and in fact seems to be even a necessity for materialists.

    The point is, here is a guy talking about consciousness as though he knew what it was, and now we're going to learn more about it. He's not unusual, this is staple fare.

    As if. The fact that conscious experience exists and we're all very familiar with it and infer its presence all the time in, say , dogs and cats, shouldn't be taken to mean that we understand it in any significant way, and when I say "it" I don't mean the biological underpinnings of it, I mean it as a phenomena , possibly disconnected from any kind of system specific underpinnings we're familiar with.

    It may just be a fact about the universe that exists independently of what we call personal experience, just the way energy or other abstract, yet real *things* exist independently of any particular form, at least so far as our best current theories go.

    Just saying. People throw this term "consciousness" around as if they know what it referred to. They don't. It's a a very basic, almost too basic, mystery. Mystery is where science begins, and you should not let yourself be separated from that feeling of the mysterious, the "out of our current conceptual grasp", by the self assured conceits of your time.

    We believe in the results of science because, ultimately, we trust some combination of our senses and our brain based experience we call "thinking". We believe this combination gives us knowledge of things which are not our brains, but have an independent reality. I believe this. But this knowledge comes to us through consciousness and not through some other avenue.

    One of the uncomfortable implications of this is people who claim to have a certain kind of universal knowledge or experience revealed to them by "spiritual or mystical" experience through which they come to know that the universe is somehow conscious can't just be poo pooed away. Considered in a certain way, that poo pooing would be one part of the brain, one function, one way of knowing, declaring its fiefdom of consciousness and understanding to be the ultimate judge of the reality of the outside world as processed by any other part.

    Just saying- you need to be skeptical and realize that not everything someone claims is that deep a claim.

      possible knowledge states by all parts of the brain

    1. Re:Define consciousness please by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Interesting

      To summarise what you're saying: not only do we not know how the phenomenology of consciousness maps onto the physical substrate, we haven't even properly pinned down the phenomenology itself.

      It's like we're trying to figure out a five-dimensional-chess computer without actually knowing the rules of chess.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:Define consciousness please by ibwolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We *know* we have conscious experience.

      No. I know I have conscious experience. Anything beyond that is supposition. While it is entirely possible that I'm the only conscious entity in the universe, I find that unlikely. However, until we can explain consciousness in terms that enable me to test the consciousness of others, it will be a matter of faith that others are conscious (albeit the amount of faith required is very small).

      This research, however limited it may be, is an attempt to provide empirical underpinnings to the term consciousness. Hopefully it will get us a little closer to understanding what consciousness is but clearly this falls well short of explaining its nature in full.

  8. A replacement for the BIS monitor? by SecState · · Score: 5, Informative

    An article in the Atlantic earlier this year discussed a technology apparently widely employed by hospitals to monitor whether patients are experiencing "interoperative awareness" during surgery: a Bispectral Index (BIS) monitor, which performs a electroencephalogram continuously during surgery and checks it against patterns thought to indicate conscious awareness. In early testing, it looked like it could detect most cases of interoperative awareness and was quickly adopted in hospitals from around 2004, but its reliability is now in question and the device, though still widely used, is controversial.

    From TFA, it seems this system is aimed at understanding brain damage and not at preventing interoperative awareness. Unfortunately the article doesn't give enough detail to know if the new tool is also based on EEG (I can't access the original study through the paywall). But, if it is, and if it gives a better sense of what patients are aware of, maybe it will have some use in the operating room as well.