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Google Blocks YouTube App On Windows Phone (Again)
dhavleak writes "From Gizmodo: Earlier today, the Microsoft-built YouTube app for Windows Phone was unceremoniously disabled by Google. These kind of little inter-corporate kerfuffles happen from time to time, and usually resolve themselves without screwing too many users. But boy, Microsoft didn't take it quietly."
Hoo
Help stamp out iliturcy.
These kind of little inter-corporate kerfuffles happen from time to time.
Hmm. I'm not sure it's interoperable issue when it come to MS, it's always furthering their agenda. In this case, removing ads and preventing Google from monetizing the content it delivers.
Fuck right off MS. You claim to grow your XBox business via games and subscription fees, but your EULA says I can't block the ads on the homepage with my router without being in breech of your EULA. Oh, but you're fine with blocking Google's ads and then playing the martyr when they ban your app just like you banned my xbox.
Both the iOS and Android apps are written by Google. They are free to do whatever they want. Any 3rd-party that wants to display videos in their app has to use the HTML5 (or Flash) player. I don't see why MS should be treated differently.
I presume that MS reserves the right for first-party apps on Windows Phone to use private APIs to implement features no other app can have. Apple certainly does this. Similarly, Google is not bound to using Dalvik for UI if they don't want to.
"Don't be evil" doesn't extend to picking up that blood-soaked hitchhiker with a chainsaw. That's covered by the "don't be stupid" corrolary.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
and let Google code there own youtube app with MS having no say or control over the app.
At least Google tells me up front they're using and selling my data
yeah i suppose you also ignorantly believe that when they captured and stored wifi network data with their streetview cars that it was the result of a "software glitch", or when they circumvented privacy settings on safari browsers so they could install cookies for ad tracking. dont be naive, just because they *say* they do no evil doesnt mean you *have* to believe it.
Both the iOS and Android apps are written by Google.
That's not true. There are scores of YouTube playing apps on the iOS app store. You can download an IOS YouTube app written by Google, but it's not the only one and I don't think ships by default on the device anymore.
I presume that MS reserves the right for first-party apps on Windows Phone to use private APIs to implement features no other app can have. Apple certainly does this.
Apple generally does NOT do this. Not because they are a bunch of saints but because they are not a bunch of damn amateur coders.
Apple doesn't use private API's for their own software for the same reason they don't want other app developers to - because using private APIs means breakage at some point down the line, or because you want to do an API change but some moron on Word (or Pages) made use of a private API and now you have to coordinate with them as to when you can change the API. API interfaces are there for a reason... they protect both sides.
Of course internal Apple products have earlier access to API updates than everyone else (and probably more say as to what API changes need to be made), but there has been no indication that most Apple software that ships on iOS is doing anything you couldn't do yourself. Apple even demonstrates at WWDC how to make apps similar to ones they are shipping.
There are sort of exceptions to the rule in that at times there are whole private frameworks they use to implement some feature (like carrousels) or Settings.app which has to manipulate all kinds of things other applications are not allowed to touch. But by and large any Apple iOS application could be written from scratch if you had a mind to do so.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Really so what you're saying is that if Google builds the apps and distributes them, that's Okay but if Microsoft or any third party ISV builds an app using their public APIs and then distributes that is a blood-soaked hitchhiker?
Since Microsoft has been through the Anti-Trust wringer before, you can bet that this little problem will get all the attention they can dig out of it, in the press and with the DOJ lawyers and the FTC. If Google publishes an API and says "use it, it's open" and then somebody picks up that mantle and builds something using it only to have Google shut it down for fictitious reasons, then at that point you have to call bullshit on the whole openness agenda and "do no evil." When Apple pulled Google Maps out of IOS, Google cried foul because Apple has to approve all apps on their platform and yes, Apple's customers cried foul as well because the Apple Maps app sucked but it seems that Apple, Google and Microsoft are all in this little arms race of what they call "open" APIs and services but when somebody implements an API using them that happens to be another 800 lb gorilla you bet the games will start. Eventually if they don't play nice, it'll wind up in court with a long drawn out legal proceeding and while Google has dodged a few bullets of late, they won't dodge a bullet if MSFT comes back with documentation that Google is playing tricks to maintain a competitive advantage. After all, Google announced that they wouldn't be building apps for Windows Phone.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Wait. You forgot to say "Microsoft says". Surely that is relevant.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
And Microsoft claims the API doesn't let them do that, which is possible. Perhaps Google doesn't expose the necessary APIs. Or perhaps to get the ad, you call "GetAd" with the video ID, and expect Google to Do The Right Thing(tm) and return an appropriate ad (which makes sense - do you expect the client to retrieve the ad, do some analysis and if it doesn't work, get another ad? Geez, look at the bandwidth waste!). Of course, perhaps Microsoft isn't dumb and they looked at how Google wrote their YouTube apps on iOS and Android, and saw they were calling some unknown API to fix it.
Of course, "Google Can Do No Evil" attitude is quite prevalent, and I suppose like Apple fanboys, they refuse to see any bad things their company does. It's easy to hate Microsoft. It's easy to hate Apple. But hate Google and the fanboys can be just as vicious as Apple ones.
+10 Unintentional Irony
Poor Microsoft, the company whose motto was at one time "It's not done until Lotus won't run!" The company that intentionally used a non-compliant Kerberos variant to foul up interoperability with *nix systems. The company that went out of its way to kill Netscape and then let the web rot for five years with IE6. The company that intentionally violated its Java licensing agreement with Sun in an attempt to enact its major philosophy; "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish".
Yes indeed, what goes around does indeed come around.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
And Microsoft claims the API doesn't let them do that, which is possible. Perhaps Google doesn't expose the necessary APIs. Or perhaps to get the ad, you call "GetAd" with the video ID, and expect Google to Do The Right Thing(tm) and return an appropriate ad (which makes sense - do you expect the client to retrieve the ad, do some analysis and if it doesn't work, get another ad? Geez, look at the bandwidth waste!). Of course, perhaps Microsoft isn't dumb and they looked at how Google wrote their YouTube apps on iOS and Android, and saw they were calling some unknown API to fix it.
Of course, "Google Can Do No Evil" attitude is quite prevalent, and I suppose like Apple fanboys, they refuse to see any bad things their company does. It's easy to hate Microsoft. It's easy to hate Apple. But hate Google and the fanboys can be just as vicious as Apple ones.
No. Microsoft doesn't claim the API doesn't let them do that. They are very careful in their wording. "Our app serves Google’s advertisements using all the metadata available to us." and " We’ve asked Google to provide whatever information iPhone and Android get so that we can mirror the way ads are served on these platforms more precisely. So far at least, Google has refused to give this information to us." do not add up to "The API doesn't let us do that"
Google are the new Doubleclick, and claiming they do no evil is ridiculous, but so is your post.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
Except a whole pile of other apps like the Blackberry one use the exact same APIs Microsoft has access to.
And Google doesn't have a problem with them.
The Google apps for iOS and Android do use other APIs to the public one for companies like Microsoft.
However Microsoft isn't allowing Google to write the Windows Phone app.
However Microsoft isn't allowing Google to write the Windows Phone app.
Who said that?
Wait. You forgot to say "Microsoft says". Surely that is relevant.
not to mention smarmy bits like
Which basically means
Microsoft are a bunch of hypocrites as ever. Google should not be opening up anything for them until Microsoft fully opens all of their server protocols; clearly shows remorse for the things they have done in the past (including clearly identifying who was responsible and ensuring that they are handed over to the justice system) and fully and clearly compensates all of the companies and people (Sendo; Netscape; Borland; Novell; IBM etc.) they have damaged in the past through abuse of their monopoly situation.
If some guy has come by and been caught robbing you several times, that does not make it discrimination if you don't invite him when you invite all your other neighbours over.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
It's easy to hate Microsoft.
So you say, but to be fair, how can you hate them when they've generously retracted all the vicious slanders they've hurled at Google and other competitors over the years? Scroogled, anyone?
How can you stay angry with them when they've so publicly recanted their "235 patents", "FOSS is a cancer" and "Get the Facts" lies and done so much to redress the damage to Linux and the FOSS community?
Why would you hold them in contempt when they're reversed all the damage they caused by whiteanting ISO and blocking the adoption of genuinely open document formats? Though it's true that it would be better if they stopped issuing fake DMCA takedowns of their competitors.
And of course, there's no way in the world they could have deliberately provoked this latest contretemps by publishing a non-conforming app without informing or consulting the Google engineers who'd been working with them. That'd be really unlikely, especially given how much contrition they've shown for their past misadventures...
As far as i can see, MS wants google to maintain a non-standard (non html5) interface to youtube. The precedence cases it cites for such an interface are apps which existed before html5 was settled enough to be ready for that. Google wants to serve cotent by html5 and advised MS to use html5 to *correctly* display the videos. MS like to do their own shit and expects google to maintain an interface for them.
Dear MS: Earlier in your life, you may have had the position where any company would have loved to create an interface so that your applications talk to it, and maybe thats still the case for office apps. I dont see exactly how i can access office 356 by and API so that i could lets say... implement and own small helping app on android to enter some data in some documents. Wouldnt that be the same kind of thing? O i forgot probably theo people who like to do it are not big enough to be interesting for you. So neither is the market share of windows phone.
I agree that a complete API to youtube would be nice, but there are many things which google should rank higher in their priorities.
Google CAN write their own youtube app. Today they can, and it would be on the MS app store within a few days.
Google has made a corporate decision to write 0 windows phone apps.
Let me just add that that's 3 times the count of Linux desktop users.
(MS has 3.7% share of phone market, Linux has less than 1% of desktop. If we assume the size of two markets to be almost the same, then that's what we can conclude).
While you are technically correct (normally the best kind of correct), this is slashdot and pointing out elephants will not be tolerated.
The problem is that "displaying content from a web page in HTML5" doesn't give you the full experience that you get from YouTube apps on iPhone and Android.
If you want to see what I mean, delete the app from your device and try using the browser instead for a few days.
It is my understanding that the original version of the app didn't show any ads at all, and this updated version shows only the ads that Google themselves serves up.
Assuming my understanding is correct, then this isn't about ad revenue; this is about user experience. Microsoft wants a good Youtube app on their phones because they know their users want one; not having it makes them look bad.
Which is also a very good reason for Google to want them to NOT have such an app. I don't have any idea if that is the actual reason they pulled MS's API key, but I find it infinitely more likely than an ad dispute.
My sig can beat up your sig.
Google already made an HTML5 version of his youtube app... it's called the web version of youtube... With full Youtube experience...
Also, I understand that Google is picky about Ad in it's content... First, it's his (only ?) source of income and second, it's part of the restriction that content-owners putt with their app and if Google don't manage it reliably, the content owners will deny access to their content to whole Youtube community !
If an ISP does this in its router, it's a breach of Network Neutrality. But if Google does it in a Python script, it's their right?
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
The funniest part is that you have absolutely no clue as to what you are yapping about. You are just opening and closing your mouth and the only thing that comes out is ignorant bullshit.
The HTML5 version of youtube works fine on Windows Phone. Has for as long as I have owned one. No problems. That is not what this is about.
Microsoft wants to have a YouTube app on Windows Phone. Similar to the one that is on Android or the one that is on iOS. The iOS and the Android versions are written in their native programming languages and have far more features than the HTML5 version of youtube.com. This makes them attractive options to youtube.com. Anyone who has, for example, used the iOS version of YouTube on an iPad would never consider using the browser version. For good reasons.
Microsoft wants to add the same experience on WinPhone, but what Google is saying is actually: "No, we don't like you. You are assholes. We will block anyone who uses your product from having a good experience with our product. There is no way you will get an Android equivalent onto your device. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.".
Open web is what Google is selling. Yeah. Open my ass. Google today is more evil than Microsoft was at its peak. Google needs, in the same way that Microsoft needed, regulators to come in and blast them to pieces. They are f*cking evil incarnate.
Are you fucking kidding me, that's in a browser. Come back when you stop dribbling shit. Microsoft is more than willing to display whatever obnoxious and intrusive ads google wants, but google wont tell them. Microsoft may well need some supervision (even though they are hardly the unstoppable monopoly they once were, and if writing their own youtube app is a measure how evil they are.. well yeah) but Google is no way to enforce this, this kind of power its only going to (already has) created an even worse monster. A monster who knows you better than your own mother; at least with Microsoft we knew they were incompetent.
Rocket Surgeon.
it's called the web version of youtube... With full Youtube experience
So you've never tried it then. The mobile version. If you had, you wouldn't say anything this retarded. BTW, the HTML5 version works perfectly fine on Windows Phone, but that is not what this is about. This is about the request from MS to have an equivalent experience for Windows Phone that you get on Android and iOS, and Google saying "no, you can't".
Google are being assholes, the only loser is the consumer, and supporting such behavior on part of any company just shows how utterly retarded religious nutcases can get.
The appropriate term is "utilizing a de-facto monopoly in one area to crush competition in another area". It is illegal. It is evil. It is what Microsoft used to be. It is what Google is now. People giving Microsoft flack for doing it and giving Google a pass for doing exactly the same have Larry and Sergey's dicks so far up their asses they are unable to think. That's pretty far.
I think Google made the iphone youtube app themselves, which they wont do for Microsoft because they are too busy and there aren't enough users (which is in part due to lack of main stream apps). But the rest sounds plausible. Microsoft might deserve it, but it seems cruel to me for Google to punish those poor 11 windows phone users.
Rocket Surgeon.
Google are not being assholes, they are protecting their revenue from the ad's playing together with the videos..
They had 2 requirements that microsoft listed in the article.
- Not an HTML5 app. (requirement from Google maybe?)
- Google claims that the application does not show the AD's as it should in all instances.
Only time Microsoft can complain is if they fulfill all the listed requirements and Google still refuses them access.
The real question is whether Google is imposing conditions on MS that they are not on anyone else. The sticking point is that third party apps must use the HTML5 API according to both Google and MS. However MS is crying foul that Android and iOS apps use native APIs. Here's the thing that MS is missing: the Android and iOS apps are not third party. They were written by Google.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Bing
Google's revenue comes from search, everything else they do is gravy. It may be a (greatly) inferior product, but Bing is a viable competitor to Google search. If there's one thing that would greatly increase Bing usage at the expense of Google it would be widespread adoption of Windows Phone. It's not doing so well in the US, but don't be fooled. It's catching on in Europe and Nokia's cheap models are really starting to move in the lesser developed (i.e. growing) markets.
Microsoft is very diversified these days and has plenty of healthy revenue streams to fund its fight, Google has just the one.
Google is scared because, however unlikely it may seem, Microsoft could still steal its lunch.
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs," I said. "we have a protractor"