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China Plans To Stop Harvesting Organs From Executed Prisoners

Posted by timothy on from the seriously-just-one-more-then-we'll-stop dept.

cold fjord writes "The People's Republic of China continues its long march toward liberalization with two steps forward (And one+ step back?). The BBC reports, 'A senior Chinese official has said the country will phase out the practice of taking organs from executed prisoners from November. Huang Jiefu said China would now rely on using organs from voluntary donors under a new national donation system. Prisoners used to account for two-thirds of transplant organs, based on previous estimates from state media. For years, China denied that it used organs from executed prisoners, but admitted it a few years ago... Human rights groups estimate that China executes thousands of prisoners a year, but correspondents say that the official figures remain a state secret.'"

10 of 200 comments (clear)

  1. I'll go ahead and say it by Sparticus789 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If these prisoners were serial killers, rapists, murderers and other assorted bad guys, then I fully support using their organs to save lives. I find it poetic justice and a very fitting end for the life of a person who (possibly) killed so many others.

    If these prisoners are political prisoners sentenced to death because they were at Tiannamen Square or oppose communism, then I welcome the end of such barbaric policies.

    --
    sudo make me a sandwich
    1. Re:I'll go ahead and say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem, of course, is that once a government has this power, the government is the one able to decide who qualifies as a "serious criminal".

      A non-violent revolutionary is much more dangerous (to the state) than a murderer.

    2. Re:I'll go ahead and say it by Shoten · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If these prisoners were serial killers, rapists, murderers and other assorted bad guys, then I fully support using their organs to save lives. I find it poetic justice and a very fitting end for the life of a person who (possibly) killed so many others.

      If these prisoners are political prisoners sentenced to death because they were at Tiannamen Square or oppose communism, then I welcome the end of such barbaric policies.

      You, sir, just hit the head on the nail with why this kind of thing is a problem. As soon as you say "well, everyone has rights, except for *those people*, you end up creating a line. When you create that line, you also create the need for someone to determine who ends up on which side of that line. And as soon as you do that, you give someone the power to take rights away from someone else. That always ends poorly; this is why the Constitution of the United States refers to rights as being "inalienable," or, in other words, irrevocable by man. Technically, "inalienable" means "Not subject to sale or transfer; inseparable."

      Once people are given the ability to take basic rights away, invariably at some point, that power will be abused. It just works out that way, and has done so in history over and over and over again. The problem isn't about when it's some serial killer/rapist who is gladly donating a spare kidney because he's genuinely sorry for all the harm he's done and at least wants to do something decent; that's like having weather alerts for nice days. The problem is how the system can be abused. Even more to the point, the system WAS abused, widely and profoundly, in China, which is why this is a story to begin with, in exactly the way you describe on the last line of your post. That's exactly my point.

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    3. Re:I'll go ahead and say it by cold+fjord · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a complicating factor: China Admits Selling Prisoners’ Organs

      When the state can profit from your death, safeguards are weak, and charges that can lead to a death sentence are a trivial problem....

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  2. Re:Sorry by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Society should work hard to avoid making prisoners criminals.

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    Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  3. Re:I hear they're outsourcing it... by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The US Govt is going to pick this up, just in time for the elections.

    I'm sure the Prison Corporations will be in favor; as well as all the greedy politicians.

    It's not like it's legal, or anything, but Really; when has that stopped them from doing something?

    Actually, all hyperbole aside, my thoughts were "why are they stopping this and why aren't WE in the US doing this?"

    It sounds like a great idea. If someone is going to die anyway, after exhausting the judicial system (again speaking for the US), why waste these organs that could go to help the many people on the waiting lists?

    It seems a waste to lose such a vital resource that could help the lives of many innocent people.

    Most people are on death row for taking lives unjustly (premeditated murder, etc), why not use this as a method for them to give life to others?

    Seems like it would balance out the karma in life a bit, no?

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  4. Re:I hear they're outsourcing it... by DexterIsADog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People who take lives and have forfeited theirs (if you agree with the idea of capital punishment in the first place) are still humans, with basic human rights. Taking their organs without their permission, or coercing them into "donating" would not pass constitutional scrutiny in the U.S., and would probably be deemed "cruel and unusual."

    We could always amend the Constitution, but while I enjoy Larry Niven's Known Space stories, I wouldn't like to give government an incentive to harvest the organs of citizens. Look at for-profit prisons, which already have a large and powerful lobby. Imagine an organ-trading industry, always hungry for fresh meat.

    And since there's no such thing as "karma", no, that's not a good reason either.

  5. The death penalty is a little different there by sirwired · · Score: 5, Informative

    Are you seriously wondering why they are stopping?

    You seem to be laboring under the mistaken belief that the death penalty is the same there as it is here. In China, they routinely execute political dissidents, politically-active members of disfavored minority groups, thieves, embezzlers, etc. Any trial that occurs is rather perfunctory. Yes, there are your typical death-row murderers and rapists too, but the high-volume organ supply comes from political prisoners, as they are easier to "warehouse" due to being less violent. They have their blood tested after arrest, and then are executed when a customer requires an organ.

  6. Re:I hear they're outsourcing it... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It sounds like a great idea.

    So do private prisons. Conflict of interest, anyone? "We need more organs!" "OK, we'll make up some sentences."

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  7. Re:Sorry by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sorry but morales aside. Why not harvest organs like this that can't be harvested from volunteers (without them dying). Go China.

    Flame on

    Two problems:
    1. It creates a perverse incentive to execute more people.
    2. It creates a negative stigma for organ donors.
    Getting people to volunteer as organ donors, or even as blood donors, is a big problem in China. Volunteerism is not part of their culture, and giving up part of your body is considered a desecration. Even in America, Asian-Americans, and Chinese in particular, donate organs, and donate blood, at very low rates.
    I donate blood every eight weeks, and my Chinese wife always objects. She insists that I am shortening my life, even though there is plenty of evidence that blood donations are actually good for you.