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Report: Britain Has a Secret Middle East Web Surveillance Base

Posted by samzenpus on from the what-do-you-got-there dept.

wiredmikey writes "Britain is running a secret Internet surveillance station in the Middle East, according to a recent report citing the latest leaked documents obtained by fugitive US security contractor Edward Snowden. The Independent newspaper said it was not disclosing the country where the base is located, but said the facility can intercept emails, telephone calls and web traffic for the United States and other intelligence agencies and taps into underwater fibre-optic cables in the region, the newspaper said. The Independent did not disclose how it obtained the details from the Snowden files."

42 of 237 comments (clear)

  1. Yes, and? by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 4, Insightful

    that is what they are supposed to be doing right? Gathering intel? The problem is when they do it against their own citizens.

    1. Re:Yes, and? by msobkow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ah, but you're missing the key point on how the "game" is played.

      The GCHQ in the UK isn't allowed to spy on UK citizens, so they spy on the rest of the EU's citizens, and apparently on the Middle East.

      The NSA isn't allowed to spy on US citizens, so they spy on Canadians and others.

      The Canadian spy agency isn't allowed to spy on Canadians, so it spies on Americans and others.

      Australia and New Zealand spy on anyone close to their networks as well.

      Even the Germans are into spying.

      Then after everyone has spied on the "foreigners" who aren't protected by each nation's laws, they get together, exchange their data, and end up with the intel on their own citizens, all while claiming "but we don't spy on our own citizens."

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    2. Re:Yes, and? by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2

      Exactly - I don't understand why this is either surprising. In fact my only concern is that a national paper thinks that it should publish such details. Having a foreign intelligence base in the heart of the region from where many of the terrorists come from sounds like an very sensible, reasonable thing. It's the detaining non-terrorist suspects under terrorism laws and spying on their own citizens and allies alike that is the concerning part. It appears that the press seems to have lost sight of this. Although I expect it may be somewhat related to the farce of destroying their UK-based disks and laptops.

    3. Re:Yes, and? by AHuxley · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem with the UK and its secret surveillance stations is in the political power it gives the host country.
      Land, power, guards, a local cover story was once all post colonial joy or NATO like anti Soviet deals, training and some basic intel sharing.
      eg Cold war Sweden got some airborne elint but no UK/US like sharing/resources.
      The problem with the local "citizens" is once the locals find out the steps the local rulers/politicians/military have to take to keep the secret again.
      Britain's Embassy in Peking was looted by "protesters" in 1967 and lost its Rockex cypher equipment.
      Iran, Ethiopia and Turkey (via TPLA and TPLF) where often at issue to further UK/US sites in the ~1960's (and other sites later during the Cold War).
      ie the Cld War offered sigint facilities extreme secrecy.
      Now nations offer other types of sites just to show how thankful they are:
      http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cia-black-sites-lithuania/story?id=9400744
      http://www.thejournal.ie/british-papers-reveal-interrogation-centre-in-derry-1023719-Aug2013/
      "Secret British papers reveal secret 1970s interrogation centre in Derry"
      Sites have many uses and can become news again years later. "subject to deep interrogation under the five techniques system the European Commission has called ‘torture’"

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:Yes, and? by chill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Snowden gave the trove of files to The Guardian at least. The specific leaks, after the initial ones, are decided by Glenn Greenwald and not Snowden.

      Whether Greenwald gave some stuff to the Independent or Snowden did that earlier is unknown.

      But my guess would be the whole episode of the UK Gov't detaining Mr. Miranda and forcing The Guarding to shred some systems seriously pissed off the British Press. Releasing UK-specific material is most likely payback. Spreading it around to other papers is most likely a signal that "threaten the Guardian with prior restraint, you better be ready to shut down every paper in the UK".

      GCHQ and Whitehall fucked up royally with that and they are now going to pay for threatening a major newspaper.

      Just a guess, mind you.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    5. Re:Yes, and? by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Interesting

      that is what they are supposed to be doing right? Gathering intel? The problem is when they do it against their own citizens.

      Fuck that. Let's not spy on anyone's residential phone or internet traffic.

    6. Re:Yes, and? by Above · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm thinking this may well be a middle finger aimed at the political types in the UK who had Greenwald's partner detained. It's his way of saying, this may have been about civil liberties and constitutional protections for your own citizens, but if you're going to mess with people on our side we can mess with people on your side too. A shot across their bow to give them some idea of the other information he has that he can chose to publish about, or keep secret.

    7. Re:Yes, and? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      You may be right. From the linked article....

      "But there are fears in Government that Mr Greenwald – who still has access to the files – could attempt to release damaging information.

      He said after the arrest of Mr Miranda: “I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I have many more documents on England’s spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.”"

    8. Re:Yes, and? by FuzzNugget · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right, they all spy on each other's citizens then exchange data, which amounts to exactly the same thing. Honoring the letter and shitting on the spirit seems to a trend these days.

      And by the NSA's own logic, exchanging data is "two or three degrees of separation," which apparently should make them equally liable. Not that government hypocrisy surprises me in the least.

    9. Re:Yes, and? by lightknight · · Score: 2

      Oh, I think you'll find we have one of those. It's just that everyone disagrees about who is running it: Aliens, the Devil, God, the Jews, the Nazis, the British Monarchy, the Templars, the Roman Catholics, the Free Masons, the UN, the US, the USSR, the Bankers, the Illuminati, an AI, etc.

      Tell you what. Everyone get together, and decide who is, and isn't running this Universe, and when you all agree on the same people (and I want this in writing), come and find me; I'll be busy getting high, and trying to accomplish some pleasantly futile task...futile because of what I am, and my own personal failings, and perhaps what I have set out to do, not because I'm high.

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    10. Re:Yes, and? by six025 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Whether Greenwald gave some stuff to the Independent or Snowden did that earlier is unknown.

      But my guess would be the whole episode of the UK Gov't detaining Mr. Miranda and forcing The Guarding to shred some systems seriously pissed off the British Press. Releasing UK-specific material is most likely payback. Spreading it around to other papers is most likely a signal that "threaten the Guardian with prior restraint, you better be ready to shut down every paper in the UK".

      GCHQ and Whitehall fucked up royally with that and they are now going to pay for threatening a major newspaper.

      Just a guess, mind you.

      Rather telling is that a) the story appears in the Independent and b) article makes no reference as to the source of the allegations, other than stating that the information was found in the documents leaked by Edward Snowden:

      Information about the project was contained in 50,000 GCHQ documents that Mr Snowden downloaded during 2012. Many of them came from an internal Wikipedia-style information site called GC-Wiki. Unlike the public Wikipedia, GCHQ’s wiki was generally classified Top Secret or above.

      The disclosure comes as the Metropolitan Police announced it was launching a terrorism investigation into material found on the computer of David Miranda, the Brazilian partner of The Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald – who is at the centre of the Snowden controversy.

      Prior to this story most UK articles appeared in the Guardian and clearly stated that Glenn Greewald provided the information. The game has changed, and I think it is going to get a whole lot uglier from here.

      Peace,
      Andy.

    11. Re:Yes, and? by six025 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And I should add: huge kudos to the Independent for having the balls to stand up and keep reporting in the face of what appears to be a War on Journalism.

      Peace,
      Andy.

    12. Re:Yes, and? by icebike · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But my guess would be the whole episode of the UK Gov't detaining Mr. Miranda and forcing The Guarding to shred some systems seriously pissed off the British Press. Releasing UK-specific material is most likely payback. Spreading it around to other papers is most likely a signal that "threaten the Guardian with prior restraint, you better be ready to shut down every paper in the UK". GCHQ and Whitehall fucked up royally with that and they are now going to pay for threatening a major newspaper.

      Just a guess, mind you.

      Yeah, and it wouldn't bee too hard to figure out where this secret location is either.
      You could just pick likely places from here: http://www.telegeography.com/telecom-resources/submarine-cable-landing-directory/
      Gibraltar would be a good guess.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    13. Re:Yes, and? by grcumb · · Score: 2

      Yeah, and it wouldn't bee too hard to figure out where this secret location is either. You could just pick likely places from here: http://www.telegeography.com/telecom-resources/submarine-cable-landing-directory/ Gibraltar would be a good guess.

      For the more visually inclined, a graphical map.

      And based on that, I'll give dollars to doughnuts that it's Egypt. Virtually all traffic between Europe and Asia transits through the Suez canal.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    14. Re:Yes, and? by grcumb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why ?

      Does the UK need to spy on the middle east ?

      The British Empire of the past is OVER. The UK is just a formerly great power which is sinking into oblivion by its own greed, incompetence, arrogance, sense of entitlement, and stupidity.

      Er, the UK is home to one of the most important financial centres on the planet. It's got a huge (commercial and strategic) incentive to know what other countries are doing. And it's not just spying on the Middle East - it's spying in the Middle East on all the Europe-Asia traffic that passes through the Suez Canal. Which is pretty much all of the Europe-Asia traffic there is (Russia excepted).

      And you can rest assured that at least some of the US$100 million that the NSA gives GCHQ is being used to maintain these facilities. Draw what conclusions you like.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    15. Re:Yes, and? by icebike · · Score: 2

      But why set up your shop in an unstable country lime Egypt, when following your own map shows that the bulk of those cables continue on to Palermo and then Gibraltar, then to the rest of Europe.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    16. Re:Yes, and? by Vintermann · · Score: 2

      You have bigger problems with car fatalities, much as any other country.

      Governments don't hate terrorism for moral reasons. It's not because it's violence, or innocents die. No, the great powers tolerate and use violence themselves that is equally bad or worse.

      The reason is that it threatens their power to do as they please, since it messes with public opinion in unpredictable ways.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    17. Re:Yes, and? by Vintermann · · Score: 2

      The UK is a region where many terrorists come from, Lots of other people who can potentially cause trouble, too.

      This isn't like spying on dictators or the Soviet Union. This is mass surveillance of the citizens of a state. The privacy of regular citizens is not respected. Unless you believe in some sort of inherent racial superiority or something, a regular citizen is equally entitled to privacy whether he was born in the UK or in Egypt.

      Given that, could you please send me your mail password? No need to be impolite about it, after all.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    18. Re:Yes, and? by rapiddescent · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For the more visually inclined, a graphical map.

      And based on that, I'll give dollars to doughnuts that it's Egypt. Virtually all traffic between Europe and Asia transits through the Suez canal.

      I'd agree with this analysis because there were some massive interuptions with middle eastern internet comms when the SEA-ME-WE_4 cable was apparently snagged by ships at anchor of Alexandria. Interestingly, Egypt actually arrested 3 men for cutting though cable off Alexandria in March this year. makes you wonder what they were actually doing.

    19. Re:Yes, and? by Eunuchswear · · Score: 2

      And I should add: huge kudos to the Independent for having the balls to stand up and keep reporting in the face of what appears to be a War on Journalism.

      Bwahahaha. It seems the "Independent" got its information from the UK government in an attempt to smear Snowden and Greenwald.

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/23/uk-government-independent-military-base

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
  2. Well.. by Ginger_Chris · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a British citizen, I'm so used to assuming that the government is intercepting every piece of electronic communication, I get really confused that other countries are annoyed they get spied on. Do these other people actually trust their governments? Because that's weird.

    1. Re:Well.. by FixedDice · · Score: 2

      British..US...It really makes no difference. Everything is alright as long as you smile and nod. The last thing that anyone would want to do is anger the powers that be. Miranda is a good example of how policies against terrorism can be used against the people for unjust causes.

    2. Re:Well.. by c0lo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a British citizen, I'm so used to assuming that the government is intercepting every piece of electronic communication,

      As one that lived more than half of his life in one of those European countries in the communist block, I am afraid that you are properly fucked already.
      If this persist for longer (say 15-20 years... it only takes one generation of used to, everybody will be teaching it to their children!), the society you'll be living would show the same weird behaviour of its people as during the secret police in communist countries: use of paraphrases when speaking, carefully planning/doing your everyday actions so that they don't appear to have any element of verboten, every neighbour... heck even members of you family... may be turning you to the authorities.
      Walk only a little in the past and you'll find Gestapo as another example.

      My point is: stop being just so used to... and do something if you don't want there

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
  3. Remember all those times the cables were cut? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now we know why.

    1. Re:Remember all those times the cables were cut? by Burz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Remember Skype's blackout? Six weeks later on 2/6/2011 they joined NSA's PRISM program. And given the P2P nature of Skype, I'm sure it was a more difficult conversion than the other services.

  4. Re:news worthy? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I guess it is if you live in the middle east... but as an American this unlike the purly domestic shit is exactly what the NSA and allied signal intelligence agencies should be doing.

    GCHQ decided to fuck with The Guardian and with Greenwald's partner.

    Greenwald said "If the UK and U.S. governments believe that tactics like this are going to deter or intimidate us in any way from continuing to report aggressively on what these documents reveal, they are beyond deluded. If anything, it will have only the opposite effect: to embolden us even further."

    A little story about a probably-sensitive GCHQ listening post seems like a warning shot in exactly that direction.

  5. When I'm so tired by Arancaytar · · Score: 3, Funny

    that I read "Secret Middle Earth Web Surveillance" and Slashdot becomes, for just a few moments, a bit cooler.

  6. Not just the UK by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    Actually, there are separate ones for the UK, US, France.

    And, of course, Israel.

    But everyone knew that.

    In case you were wondering, even if you are a citizen of the EU or US, all four listen to any email or phone call you make, even the ones you think are encrypted.

    I'm surprised you didn't know this.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  7. Re:Snowden the Defector by jpublic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    His leaks are directly damaging to the intelligence agencies of the US and its allies.

    I wish that were true. In fact, I wish his leaks do so much damage to them that it utterly destroys these parasites, but sadly, I doubt that's going to be the case.

  8. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If there is any group of people constantly on the edge of going on killing sprees on civilians, it's the muslims.

    You have conveniently overlooked the Israelis and the US, with respect to
    killings of civilians. The facts indicate that the two aforementioned parties
    certainly deserve to be counted as contenders in these matters.

  9. Listening posts by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Listening posts where always an issue for the budget conscious UK before and after the 1990's but US (NSA/mil) cash often helped keep very expensive sites running.
    The region knew all about US/UK bases. The leaders and their "freedom fighters" would have be aware of:
    Masirah Island, Oman (with NSA)
    HMS Vacoas, Mauritius, closed 1976
    Meshed, Iran lost in 1979
    Mount Olympus, Cyprus, (Project Sandra/US Cobra Shoe) 1959 till?
    Muharraq, Bahrain
    Mutlah Ridge, Kuwait, 1961- till?
    Pergamos, Cyprus 1957 -till?
    Perkhar, Ceylon, 1957-65
    Silvermine, South Africa (1970's)
    Steamer Point and Khormaksar ~ Aden
    Yarallakos, Cyprus (NSA?)
    Habbaniya, Iraq till 1957
    Diego Garcia 1964 - with a some slight issues for a very short time over a cash for land deal.
    Optical, satellite and the govs/telcos buying/upgrading into standardised tech makes the need for many locations less of an issue.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  10. Re:Actually that's completely and fantastically wr by msobkow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Uhunh. Yeah. Right. So all the "bi-lateral security agreements" that the government has bragged about are for what purpose, then?

    Your NSA has been caught ignoring the rulings of the FISC that said their actions were illegal. They've been caught spying on Americans. What in all that's holy makes you think they wouldn't take data from a foreign government's spy agency when the Americans have repeatedly sent people to foreign nations to be tortured and to use that intelligence data despite the fact that it's illegal to do so?

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  11. Re:"...not disclosing....where the base is located by SpockLogic · · Score: 4, Informative

    The UK have sovereign bases on Cyprus, about 150 miles wet of Lebanon, and having a listening post on the top of the islands highest mountain shouldn't be difficult.

  12. Re:Good by lightknight · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, it takes some talent to get them there. First you need to starve them a bit. Then you need to eradicate all of the moderate / peaceful imams. Then you need to repress the youth, and make them feel trapped. Then you need to make them feel that violence is the only answer to solving their lifestyle problems.

    Sure, it takes a large investment in that kind of control / behavioral modification, but it has worked wonders on various indigenous populations, no matter which religion they choose to identify with.

    I mean, let's be honest, a fat and happy populace is not a populace which is going to attack anyone. You need to lie to them, cheat them, steal from them, every single day, from every angle, so they feel that even their emotions are on loan from you; that's when you know you have them, when they will altruistically damage themselves to be just like the false image of you. You need to remove that innermost sense of peace that humans are born with, and make them uneasy to be alone with themselves.

    I hope you get the dripping sarcasm in the above statements.

    --
    I am John Hurt.
  13. Re:Tedious. by AHuxley · · Score: 2

    Why the intelligence agencies are in the press is over:
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/22/david-miranda-court-victory-data-police
    Using laws formed around the time of the Irish peace talks and turning it onto the UK press is not so smart.
    The UK press is rather smart and knows the next step might be closed material procedures.
    ie UK lawyers may never get to see much real evidence anymore, question, only a security-cleared lawyer or ‘special advocate’ might.
    Welcome to a next gen Franz Kafka like trial.
    So the UK press know they might be on a collective list and want to get out in front of the debate rather than face closed courts for just doing their jobs.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  14. Put some old news in a new context by gmuslera · · Score: 3, Informative
    like this cable cut near Egypt

    in march (and probably others undersea cable cuts that happened recently close to that zone). Or it was an "oops, i did it again" from an agent, or was meant to be done that way (i.,e. an "accidental" cut by an anchor) so the company that repaired it added the extra functionality.

  15. Re:traitor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have been against interfering with Snowden and thought that we should just let him be in Russia.
    But at this time, if he suddenly dies, and all the data is grabbed, I am fine with that.

    Your willingness to "not mind" if Snowden is murdered marks you as a morally bankrupt
    person. And that is sad, both for you and for those whose lives will be made poorer by
    knowing you.

    But your assumption that "all the data" could somehow be "grabbed" marks you
    as technologically illiterate. The very idea that "all the data" could somehow be "grabbed"
    when there are many mirrors of the data in multiple locations makes your idea laughable,
    even to ten year old children I know who are computer literate.

    So you don't belong on this website because you lack the faculties
    required to swim in this pool. Perhaps you can find a place on Facebook where
    there are people stupid enough to accept your idiocy and the drivel you write.

  16. Your own link proves otherwise by Camael · · Score: 5, Informative

    Did you even check the source/link you posted?

    The very first entry as of now, is Bush Secretly Lifted Some Limits on Spying in U.S. After 9/11, Officials Say

    Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials.

    Under a presidential order signed in 2002, the intelligence agency has monitored the international telephone calls and international e-mail messages of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States without warrants over the past three years in an effort to track possible "dirty numbers" linked to Al Qaeda, the officials said. The agency, they said, still seeks warrants to monitor entirely domestic communications.

    Nearly a dozen current and former officials, who were granted anonymity because of the classified nature of the program, discussed it with reporters for The New York Times because of their concerns about the operation's legality and oversight.

    So much for your comment that

    'The United States cannot target a foreigner to intercept the communications of one of its own citizens, nor can it use a second party nation (UK, CAN, AUS, or NZ), or anyone else, to target US citizens or anyone else it would be otherwise prohibited from targeting.'

    They've moved beyond that, they're targetting citizens directly, without warrants, i.e. illegally.

  17. Re:Snowden the Defector by hammyhew · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here he comes, cold fjord, the man himself!

    Snowden and Greenwald are obstructing anti-terrorist agencies throughout the civilized world. Honestly, we should just lynch them. They're a disgrace.

    -- cold fjord

    Terrorism is a threat to the way we live our lives. We must give up our privacy if we want security (which we do, at any cost)

    -- cold fjord

    Fuckin' snowden piece of shit! How dare he do this! Snowden is fuckin' guilty as fuck! Kill him! Kill! Kill! Kill!

    -- cold fjord

    I'm gonna fuckin' kill Snowden, that fucking piece of shit fucker ass fuck shit ass fuck supreme fuck ass! GOD! He makes me so fuckin' angry! How dare he disobey me! Get him, boys!

    -- cold fjord

    Snowden is the worst thing to happen to this nation since the Constitution was formed and signed.

    -- cold fjord

    That fuckin' Snowden piece of shit! The government can do no wrong! The terrorists! Think of the terrorists, you fuckin' insolent insects! Give me all your privacy so we can stop the terrorists, you fucks!

    -- cold fjord

  18. And in news not too far away ... by skegg · · Score: 2

    1) Poor Mr Greenwald: so young and healthy and yet he suffered a fatal heart attack.

    2) Poor Mr Greenwald: his vehicle careening off the road like that.

    3) Poor Mr Greenwald: killed last night while being mugged for cash and his cell phone.

    4) Poor Mr Greenwald: left a note saying he decided to go backpacking around the world but no one's seen him since.

    etc

    Of course, I hope he lives a long and healthy life ...

  19. Why is "Qatar" tagged on this story? by barlevg · · Score: 2

    The Independent newspaper said it was not disclosing the country where the base is located

    Does someone on /. know something they're not supposed to be telling us?

  20. WHO REMEMBERS THIS LITTLE NUMBER? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2

    I JE'd about it, and tried to get a Slashdot frontpage submission. Linked stories?

    After what you've learned over the past 3-4 months, it's hard to discredit this, outright.

    A total of five cables being operated by two submarine cable operators have been damaged with a fault in each.

    These are SeaMeWe-4 (South East Asia-Middle East-Western Europe-4) near Penang, Malaysia, the FLAG Europe-Asia near Alexandria, FLAG near the Dubai coast, FALCON near Bandar Abbas in Iran and SeaMeWe-4, also near Alexandria.

    The first cut in the undersea Internet cable occurred on January 23, in the Flag Telcoms FALCON submarine cable which was not reported. This has not been repaired yet and the cause remains unknown, explained Jaishanker.

    http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/theuae/2008/February/theuae_February155.xml&section=theuae

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."