Yahoo Pulls Out of China

Editing 101 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-02 19:17 · Score: 5, Informative

in which it has a stake

there FTFY

Re:Editing 101 by OptimalCynic · 2013-09-02 20:17 · Score: 1, Flamebait

Thank you. Corporate personhood is a good thing in a legal sense, but not linguistically.

warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by frovingslosh · 2013-09-02 19:20 · Score: 3, Informative

Alibaba is well named, although it leads a group of far more than just forty thieves. Anyone tempted to deal with Aliexpress (you only learn the Alibaba joke after you make the mistake) should take the time to search for them on Reseller Ratings.

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I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.

Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by Stormwatch · 2013-09-02 20:15 · Score: 4, Informative

Ali Baba was the hero of the tale, and the thieves were his enemies. Why do people get this wrong?

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Circumcision is child abuse.
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by anubi · 2013-09-02 20:16 · Score: 5, Informative

I have personally used AliExpress and have an account on their "escrow" system. I have used it for about a year now.

You have to be cautious about what you buy there. Don't buy anything bulky or heavy; the logistics charges will eat you alive.

However, there are a lot of merchants finding things in China like circuit board assemblies and various small parts and offer them in smaller quantities.

I have been bitten a couple of times, but by and large, most of the smaller guys on AliExpress I have bought electronic parts from ( IC's, LED's, resistors, capacitors, modules, and occasionally small tools ) have been on the level with me. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is - leave it be. I have bought some stuff that was probably a knockoff, but it was good enough for what I needed.

There is a lot of stuff available in China that I have not seen over in the USA yet. I am particularly interested in circuit modules and high-power LED's ( 100 Watt range ) that I do not see over here. Yes.. 100 Watt LED's... about 36 volts at 3 amps. However I will warn you right now if you do not know how to heat sink these, you will not get light for long.

I have about 100 transactions with AliExpress. I have had four disputes with merchants. Of these, the merchant and I resolved it without involving AliExpress's dispute resolution three times, and once I had to escalate the dispute to have the AliExpress dispute resolution team mediate.

This particular one was over a laptop battery pack that was marketed as using high capacity cells. When I tried to use it in my machine, it first identified it as having a substantially lower capacity than that advertised, then a few hours later, something fried in the battery management board, to the extent that the power block charging my machine heated up and there was a hot smell coming from somewhere, and the battery pack was quite warm. The laptop locked up and would not boot. I disconnected the whole shebang and queried the merchant, who wanted me to ship the battery back to China. There was no way I was going to place a lithium battery pack I had no idea of how much overcharge it took onto an airplane. So I ended up disassembling the pack to discover it was indeed made with lower capacity cells, however they were good quality cells - and the battery pack was quite well made - I guess the battery management board fry was a fluke, as I saw no obvious reason for it frying ( you know, stuff like bad solder joints or sloppy assembly ). AliExpress ruled in my favor .

( Thank goodness the laptop itself survived - scared the crap out of me there for a while - the laptop would not boot with that battery in even if the AC adapter was present. Apparently the BIOS sensed a problem with the BMS and would inhibit the startup.)

Two disputes were packaging errors. Upon contacting the merchant, he checked his end and verified and shipped me the correct part.

One merchant apparently sold me something he did not have, and ended up refunding my money. That was a weird one. I tried and tried and tried to open communication with the merchant over it. Eventually the AliExpress transaction monitors timed out over it and automatically cancelled the transaction. I saw the credit show up on my next Visa statement. ( they also sent me emails to the same effect )

But anyway, that's my experience with AliExpress. I order through them for small samples. I am using them to build a product I hope to go into business one day selling. I am hoping one day I will be able to ask my guy in China if he can get me several thousand of an item.

I will warn you right now that if you are buying "consumer" type stuff ( jewelry, clothes, trinkets ), you better buy in very small quantities, as nothing beats holding one personally and examining it. When China and US are on opposite sides of the planet, the shipping costs often far exceed the cost of the thing you are buying. Go get it from some big retailer that buys them in bulk and uses far more economical ( albeit far slower ) shipping ( as in a ocean vessel ).

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"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by homsar · 2013-09-02 20:18 · Score: 1

Looking up Alibaba/Aliexpress on Reseller Ratings is like looking up eBay; both are trading platforms rather than stores in their own right. (Also, you think that Reseller Ratings can be trusted?)
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by thegarbz · 2013-09-02 20:31 · Score: 1

errr Alibaba and Aliexpress are like ebay. I don't "deal" with them. I use their platform to deal with others. And so far (mostly electronics and electrical components) they have had the same success rate as ebay for me, and several of the sellers I've dealt with I have continued to deal with outside of Alibaba.
I had a problem with one seller, sent the wrong thing, and when I contacted the seller they were apologetic and sent the correct item.
Treat Alibaba like you would treating any other Chinese ebay seller and you'll be fine.
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by Sir+Holo · 2013-09-02 20:31 · Score: 1

Agreed. AVOID Aliexpress.
I purchased two items from them, not knowing... Both transactions are now in protracted disputes.
One was not as described (and cheaply manufactured), and the other simply never arrived.
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by pspahn · 2013-09-02 20:56 · Score: 5, Funny

I always just thought they stole large bottles of malt liquor.

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Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by X.25 · 2013-09-02 22:04 · Score: 3, Informative

Alibaba is well named, although it leads a group of far more than just forty thieves. Anyone tempted to deal with Aliexpress (you only learn the Alibaba joke after you make the mistake) should take the time to search for them on Reseller Ratings.
I've placed more than 20 orders in last 4 months, via AliExpress, and have received all of them, in timely manner and all items were correct and working. Not a single problem. Well, there was 1 order that got delayed, but seller contacted me and notified me about it and asked me if I don't mind waiting few days.
What, exactly, is it I am supposed to 'learn'?
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by drinkypoo · 2013-09-02 23:32 · Score: 1

I placed two orders via AliExpress recently. The first item was cancelled for an unspecified reason. The second one arrived and it was defective.
Neither one of us can learn anything from these anecdotes because we don't discuss any details, like what was purchased
Good thing I only spent ten bucks. Hmm, clickclickclick... looks like I have to manually escalate my dispute, because the seller isn't responding. Why doesn't the system do this for me? Answer, it's a scam.
I suspect that this will end in sadness and I will never go back to aliexpress, but I suppose that remains to be seen.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by Inda · 2013-09-02 23:40 · Score: 3, Informative

I disagree.

Someone who steals is a thief. It does not matter if he steals from other thieves, he is still a thief.

In the unwritten rules of criminality, stealing from fellow thieves is the lowest of the low. It's not as bad as stealing from family, but close.

There's the slang word "ponce" in the UK. Forget the dictionary definitions, it basically means a criminal who steals from other criminals. A low class of person in the underworld.

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This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by lxs · 2013-09-03 00:35 · Score: 1

Now why would I take moral or ethical advice from thieving scumbags?
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by wisnoskij · 2013-09-03 00:59 · Score: 1

100 Watt LED? Would that not be like as bright as the sun? Would that not be bright enough to blind you, as it gives you a tan from 50 feet away?
That has to be equivalent to at least a 250 watt normal lightbulb.

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Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by NoMaster · 2013-09-03 01:01 · Score: 2

Anyone tempted to deal with Aliexpress (you only learn the Alibaba joke after you make the mistake) should take the time to search for them on Reseller Ratings.
Likewise, anyone tempted to use eBay should take the time to search for them on Reseller Ratings.
(hint: AliExpress 1.30/10, eBay 0.92/10)
On AliExpress, just like on eBay, you need to pick your sellers very carefully. If something looks too good to be true, it probably is. And don't pay more than you can afford to lose.

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What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by geminidomino · 2013-09-03 01:07 · Score: 5, Funny

Not to mention thieving scumbags who don't have any grasp of set ordering.
Either stealing from other criminals is "the lowest of the low," XOR "It's not as bad as stealing from family" which would make stealing from the family as the lowest of the low.
At least if it was "AS BAD," then you could make the argument for a partially ordered set.
Come on, lads. You might not have any respect for the law, or for others' property, but that's no excuse for sloppy logic!
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-03 01:10 · Score: 2, Interesting

Because his is a con-man, a thief, pimp, and a liar. As the story goes, he eavesdrops on a group of men in the woods, he has no doubt done this before. As he keep listening, he learns they are thieves and that the men actually stole a vast quantity of riches from all over the land and that they store it in a cave, the mouth of which is guarded by magic. He hears the magic words to open and close the cave and remembers them. After the thieves leave, he decides to steal from them. With only blackness in his heart, rather than return the stolen goods, he decides to keep it for himself. His sister-in-law finds out about his newly stolen hoard of gold coins and knows instinctively something is wrong. How can a woodcutter earn enough in his lifetime for 1 gold coin much less a hoard? Silver maybe from his whores, but gold? He must be stealing! She tells her husband. Alibaba's brother can't believe his brother is a no-good thief. After a little arm twisting, he learns it is true and Alibaba is forced to reveal where he got the coins from. His brother is determined to have the stolen goods returned to their rightful owners. Alibaba wants the gold to himself, so he tricks his brother into entering the cave without telling him the way to get out. This was a perfect time to set his brother up to take the fall and to see if anyone else knows about him. Waiting patiently, pretending nothing was amiss, he waited at home. After a week he knew his brother must be dead from starvation and thirst. This would be no problem but his sister-in-law knew her husband was last seen with him and he didn't want to be implicated in the crime. So he tried to retrieve the body. But it was too heavy! He had to cut off his arms and legs just to get him back to town which took a total of 5 trips. Alibaba is in deep doo-doo now. He forces one of his call girls to help cover up the crime. Do it or you'll end up just like my brother! Morgiana had already been beaten within an inch of her life before. She knew Alibaba had killed many times before, she had no way out, so she went along with the charade. She was instructed to find Baba Mustafa aka "the Cleaner" to help cover up the crime. He cleans Alibaba's home of all evidence of the crime and even sews up the body again so it is whole. Alibaba then pays off the state medical examiner with some of the stolen coins to say he died of natural causes. After the funeral nothing seems to be amiss, everything has been neatly accounted for. ... Join us next time for part 2 of the "The Purloined Pyramid of Plunder"
Seriously he burglarizes the thieves locked cave, knows he is dealing with stolen goods, aids in the commission of a murder(did he really tell his brother the way out?), covers up a murder, uses one of his kidnap victims to help cover up the murder, fabricates evidence, extorts an old man into helping cover up the murder, and is complicit in 39 more murders.
Yet we are to believe he is an "honest man" with fortune on his side.
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by Lluc · 2013-09-03 02:21 · Score: 1

I'd say a 100 Watt LED is a misprint. Think about a 100 Watt diode-based laser. They typically use an array of diodes to get to that power level, and they need liquid cooling so they do not burn themselves up while operating.
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by frovingslosh · 2013-09-03 04:10 · Score: 2

First, as I said, read the experiences at Reseller Ratings.
But, for those who simply will not, you might get what you order, but you very likely will not. The thieves at Alibaba know that they can send you just about anything, and with American postal rates you can't afford to send it back. Alibaba will apparently always side with their thieves, even if the thief doesn't dispute what you say.
In my case I ordered a 2000 lumen flashlight. I received a flashlight, but it was a cheaper 1200 lumen flashlight that it turns out the seller also sells. The seller's only response was "If you don't like my product, send it back", which would have cost more than I was already out. Aliexpress claims to hold payment in escrow, but they have a history of always siding with their thieves. In my case they had me spend hours making a video that showed the brightness (I had other high power flashlights that I could compare it to) but still said "we can't tell so we are paying the seller". I expect the seller really only has the cheaper lower power flashlight and on;y ships those, they assume that the stupid Americans they misrepresent the brightness to will not know better and, if they do, there is nothing they can do about it anyway.
There are plenty of complaints on Reseller Ratings of Alibaba deleting or changing feedback so that the sell looks more honest than they really are. Again, don't trust me, and don't trust the above shill. Certainly don't trust any filtered feedback you find on the Aliexpress site. Get your information for a less biased third party.

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I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by geekoid · 2013-09-03 06:17 · Score: 1

" Too many semantic subtleties that have nothing to do with elemental programming tasks."
That doesn't mean he isn't the hero.

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The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by gl4ss · 2013-09-03 06:49 · Score: 1

..and from whom you are buying.
if you want to buy from a company that acts as a frontman and not through a site that connects you to seller then use something else.. like dealextreme. of course lot of the stuff over there is crap too, but hey, it's cheap crap and sometimes fits the bill perfectly.

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by drinkypoo · 2013-09-03 07:28 · Score: 1

In most cases if I buy from eBay they will make the seller take back anything that is shitty. I am even now exploring the situation vis-a-vis Aliexpress.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:warning about Alibaba and Aliexpress by anubi · 2013-09-03 13:57 · Score: 1

From me:

If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is - leave it be.

I will warn you right now that if you are buying "consumer" type stuff ( jewelry, clothes, trinkets ), you better buy in very small quantities, as nothing beats holding one personally and examining it.
and, from you...

Certainly don't trust any filtered feedback you find on the Aliexpress site
Point taken. As I said, I have had an account on AliExpress for about a year now. I left some bad feedback about that merchant that sold me the misrepresented battery pack. The feedback went up, then disappeared. I stated on the feedback the same things I stated on my Slashdot post. The seller left me some bad feedback too - short, and to the point... "very hate buyer". That disappeared too. Well, just to be honest, I felt I needed to back up your statement with my personal experience.

I can see why reseller ratings has some bad reviews, I have experienced likewise for trying to buy stuff I should have bought from Harbor Freight Tools or the dollar stores.

One item in particular I remember is a small LED illuminated ring magnifying glass.. Looks great in the offer. I'll tell ya something - the thing is useless as a magnifier - way too much distortion in the lens. Might as well use the bottom of a coke bottle. Look again at the image in the offer. That must have been one of the better ones. Can you imagine trying to read through that lens?

Most of the stuff I get is not prepared for immediate resale. Often the item is shipped with none of the usual trade dress such as gaudy boxes and printed inserts. In a way, those are kinda useless, as AliExpress sells to a lot of countries, not just USA. Items packaged for Russia are not appropriate for sale in USA. If we want to resale, then we make up our own trade dress and go for it. They just make the item to put in the box.

I will not dispute claims made on Reseller Ratings. From the buyer's point of view, they are probably true. A lot of people are looking for a quick markup with fat margins. There is a lot of people out there with those same intentions, and they are big enough to make money on volume. This "buy here for ten cents, sell for a dollar!" is mostly stuff hocked by late night DIY business televangelists looking for money in his mailbox too.

I see a lot of exaggerated claims. That's why a solid understanding of science/math comes in damn handy. 2000 lumens at 80 lumens/watt ( quite optimistic ) is 25 watts. That's a helluva pull for a battery.

Also its one heck of a lot of heat. Fan-cooled flashlight?

Most likely the manufacturer of the emitter claimed that rating on an infinitely heat-sunk LED.

I have bought several dozen UltraFire WF502 flashlights ( XML-T6 emitter ). I do not think any of them came close to claimed lumen output. They are bright enough, and use the 18650 cell, which is *very* important to me. They are well made and maintainable - that is I can completely disassemble them for cleaning and maintenance instead of having to throw a soiled one away. I figure I get about 500 lumens ( although some claim 1000 lumens ). But realistically, given the capacity of a single 18650 cell, I am very pleased with what I get. About 6.5 watts. Enough energy in a 18650 cell for about an hour of light. I do not want to use multiple 18650 cells because that would result in charge balancing issues, and I want my stuff as simple as possible.

I have bought mine more for "stock in trade" because they won't go bad in storage, and when a disaster strikes, they will become as good as currency for trading for things I need. For me, used 18650 are plentiful - and I very rarely find unusable ones.

Although you

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"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

And this is a surprise? by mendax · 2013-09-02 19:38 · Score: 4, Interesting

When I read this story I found myself reacting with a great yawn. China is a very difficult place for an American Internet firm to do business because of the virulent corruption throughout its government and economy in general and the nonexistent rule of law, a court system that is not independent of the government in other words. Incidentally, these facts as well as some others will eventually lead to the collapse of China's economy.

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It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.

Re: And this is a surprise? by Wootery · 2013-09-02 21:50 · Score: 1

pro-citizen business laws and requirements of native-owned majority shares.
More precisely, it's called protectionism , not pro-citizen.
I'm surprised the Wikipedia article doesn't go into detail about China specifically.
Re: And this is a surprise? by mendax · 2013-09-02 23:11 · Score: 1

Well, I wasn't thinking of protectionism as being one of the "some others" but more or less right.
Another thing which is killing the Chinese economy is the lack of democracy. I don't mean democracy in terms of the way American government is organized and operates because as democracies go, it's not very democratic. Democracies necessarily require that the citizens are guaranteed a full set of civil rights, especially the right to freedom of speech, expression, and association and, regardless of what many may feel here, Americans have an extraordinary set of these that the courts time and again have forced governments to recognize. When citizens have these things, capitalism generally functions better.

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It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
Re: And this is a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-03 00:04 · Score: 1

You mean Americans aren't the only racists in the world? Really? SD is really going to the dawgs dawg.
Re: And this is a surprise? by mendax · 2013-09-03 07:51 · Score: 1

I should have said that the Chinese economy is doomed to stagnation and decline without democratic reforms. They are coming, the Chinese people want it, the allegedly Communist party in power cannot kill enough people to stop it.

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It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
Re: And this is a surprise? by Wootery · 2013-09-03 09:26 · Score: 1

I don't mean democracy in terms of the way American government is organized and operates because as democracies go, it's not very democratic. Democracies necessarily require that the citizens are guaranteed a full set of civil rights, especially the right to freedom of speech, expression, and association
Nonsense. This is neither what the word democracy means, nor the source of its strength. What you're describing sounds like a constitutional republic. There's no constitution to restrict the powers of the government of the UK, for instance, but it seems to be a pretty well functioning democracy.
Democracy's strengths are that it generally does a good job of keeping out of power those who would slaughter their own people, and that it gives the people some sense of empowerment and sense of having a government that holds power legitimately.
A constitution on top changes things a little, but not vastly.

Re:Google's Unusable in China by SuricouRaven · 2013-09-02 19:38 · Score: 1

Given the poor relationship between Google and the Chinese government, I imagine this is deliberate. I'm surprised you can access it at all without a VPN or other counter-censor technology.

Re: So? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-02 19:45 · Score: 1, Insightful

2009 called. It wants its bag of crap opinions back.

Good god by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2013-09-02 20:04 · Score: 2

> Yahoo Pulls Out of China

Quagmire: You know what, I started telling the wrong story.

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(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.

News Flash: Betraying customers bad for business! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-02 20:07 · Score: 1

They never recovered from bastardry like betraying these dissidents: Shi Tao, Li Zhi, Wang Xiaoning. Who could trust them after that? Yahoo Sells out Chinese Blogger, Yahoo's snitch sends customer to jail for 8-10 years http://www.alternet.org/story/32019/yahoo_sells_out_chinese_blogger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Yahoo!#Outing_of_Chinese_dissidents

Good to see them catching up with the Rest of Us by sethstorm · 2013-09-02 20:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

For all those thinking that the US has a problem with freedom, perhaps you might want to consider why it is more preferable than Russia or China.

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Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.

Re:Trade war? by OptimalCynic · 2013-09-02 20:18 · Score: 1

How is it a trade war? The point of the economy is consumption, if you can get stuff made cheaper in China then everyone wins.

Re:Good to see them catching up with the Rest of U by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-02 20:31 · Score: 5, Insightful

> For all those thinking that the US has a problem with freedom

The goal is to not be like them. How does seeing the surface of the sun make you think it's not hot in your oven? Jesus.

Your lot is part of the problem. The sympathizers. The lazy. The apologists. The ones who thinks perspective is based on what hole they live in.

Re:Good to see them catching up with the Rest of U by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-02 20:34 · Score: 1

The people in 1983 daily rejoiced that their leadership was the least evil of all the leaderships in the world. Which of course did nothing to improve their situation.

Re:Title by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-02 21:48 · Score: 2, Funny

Sex jokes will not make it far around here... to be funny they need to be understood by the audience.

Re:Good to see them catching up with the Rest of U by freedom_surfer · 2013-09-02 23:06 · Score: 1

Go organize a protest about Tiananmen Square and find out.

Re:I've done the same thing by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-02 23:22 · Score: 1

I pulled out of a chinese girl

In whom you had a stake?

Re:Good to see them catching up with the Rest of U by X.25 · 2013-09-02 23:29 · Score: 1

Go organize a protest about Tiananmen Square and find out.

You sould as if you beleive organizing a protest anywhere makes any difference to anything.

Well, it does make a difference actually, people seem to think they are somehow 'free' because they can organize a protest that noone cares about. Same like people think they are free because they get to 'vote'.

Cute.

Re:Good to see them catching up with the Rest of U by kruach+aum · 2013-09-03 00:31 · Score: 2

Just because I don't want to saw off my legs with a chainsaw doesn't mean I'm ok with stepping into a bear trap.

Re:Good to see them catching up with the Rest of U by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-03 00:38 · Score: 1

I'm free because I can take my things and go live in the woods. That has nothing to do with any laws or nations or anything. It has to do with my skills. I actually _could_ live free in the woods if I chose to do so. Everyone thinks moose are free, yet they get hunted down and shot. They die, but they lived free. They took shit from nobody. They decided themselves what to do and when. And that is the essence of freedom. Every time you do something differently because of a law and not because the way you do it seems smart you are less free. Some people don't fit the society, they break the laws all the time, and feel very "not-free".

Re:Good to see them catching up with the Rest of U by wisnoskij · 2013-09-03 01:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

Tell that to Snowden.

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Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.

Re:Good to see them catching up with the Rest of U by wisnoskij · 2013-09-03 01:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

Make sure to tell your local US government official so that they can direct you to your designated free speech zone, and prepare the riot squads to come in and beat you and arrest you.

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Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.

Re:Good to see them catching up with the Rest of U by wisnoskij · 2013-09-03 01:04 · Score: 1

Only as long as those woods are located inside your country and you own them and pay taxes on them.

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Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.

Re:Good to see them catching up with the Rest of U by poity · 2013-09-03 03:47 · Score: 1

Another way of making your argument is to say that if the US government were to ban protest at the National Mall tomorrow, you would not feel a sense of loss or think worse of the US government. Because that's essentially what you're saying when you imply that there is no difference.

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your thin skin doesn't make me a troll

Re:Personification (valid) by frovingslosh · 2013-09-03 04:21 · Score: 1

Most of these sellers are one man "shops", not real companies. Perhaps implying that they are people is a little too good for they, but they are entities, not large organizations.

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I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.

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