Slashdot Mirror
Government To Release Hundreds of Documents On NSA Spying
Trailrunner7 writes "In response to a lawsuit by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Department of Justice is preparing to release a trove of documents related to the government's secret interpretation of Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act. The declassified documents will include previously secret opinions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. The decision by the Justice Department to release the documents is the second legal victory in recent weeks for the EFF related to the National Security Agency's intelligence collection programs. In August, the group won the release of a 2011 FISC opinion that revealed that the court ruled that some of the NSA's collection programs were illegal and unconstitutional. The newest decision will result in the release of hundreds of pages of documents related to the way the government has been interpreting Section 215, which is the measure upon which some of the NSA's surveillance programs are based. In a status report released Wednesday regarding the EFF's suit against the Department of Justice, attorneys for the government said that they will release the documents by Sept. 10."
That is a lot of [REDACTED]s.
So they won't hold back on the dodgy stuff. I trust them!
Drown 'em in paperwork. That'll keep 'em busy for a few years. In the meantime business is just humming right along.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Somewhere in Moscow, a lone man can be heard saying, "What?!? All I had to do was ask? Damnit!"
They cannot be trusted. They'll only feed us what they want us to see and nothing more. They'll deny that they do much more, and even will tell us they've curtailed some efforts.
They are the government. They lie. They cannot be trusted.
Just redacted enough to make them useless.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I'll wait for the same, but unredacted docs that Snowden releases.
Today the government, under the Freedom of Information Act, released further evidence to its illegal spying on American citizens. However, it still adamantly refuses to actually stop the agencies from continuing in these actions. "I don't think it's our place", a Senator - insisting on anonymity - said.
"Yeah", one NSA agent was overheard saying. "It's no big thing that this information is out there. It's not as if we care what the people think anymore."
In response, the FBI announced it intends to one-up the NSA by revealing they shot Kennedy. "The NSA are just a bunch of Johnny-come-lately amateurs when it comes to screwing over the citizens of America. We've been doing illegal wiretaps for decades. And don't get me started on the fun stuff we did back under Hoover's administration; it's about time we got recognition for all that work!"
Asked if he worried that these relevations might have unexpected consequences, he said "Nah; it's obvious that the average citizen is so apathetic that we might as well flaunt our villainy. Anyway, what can they do? We have the power, the guns, the money. Let them whine on YouTube; we'll get to them soon enough."
A nearby CIA agent refused any comment as he drove off in what appeared to be an Area-51 flying saucer.
They already intentionally lied to the congress and suffered no consequences even after that was found out. What are the odds of what they show is the real full documents or just a redacted, partial, totally false or even a bunch of pages filled with loren ipsum? They already proved that deserve no trust and that don't care at all about it.
In REDACTED the US Department of Homeland Security REDACTED REDACTED and, under the direction of REDACTED, REDACTED of the National Security Agency, implemented REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED to REDACTED, REDACTED and REDACTED. Additionally programs were setup to REDACTED REDACTED and REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED using REDACTED. The methods included REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED as well as REDACTED REDACTED.
Signed,
Fuck You Citizens
Got the T-shirt.
http://www.cafepress.com/mf/78962026/the-nsa_tshirt
If we can piece together any meaning from what's left after all the giant magic marker redactions.
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
... because you can't ask government to hold itself accountable for breaking the law.
Okay, so we're getting "hundreds" of pages. Even if they're heavily redacted, it's a start. But anyone thinking that the government's documents on this only number in the hundreds is incredibly deluded.
So even if this sheds light above and beyond the Snowden leaks (either now or future), I'm sure they have plenty of stuff about the NSA, FISC/A, and more that they are withholding us. Maybe we'll get an idea of what that is once the EFF and others finish reading through all this...
Release the Chaff
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
We know the NSA has been promoting security standards that they can hack into. We know they've been pushing weaker security at standards organisations etc. Could SELinux which was developed by the NSA be vulnerable to this sort of attack? Could the NSA have a backdoor into Linux itself? I know that Linux should be the only alternative to Windows/OSX at this point for people trying to avoid NSA spying, but could Linux itself be vulnerable to the attacks the NSA can launch on other platforms?
Our government isn't oppressive. It generally doesn't have to be, as we're usually more than willful in our ability to distract ourselves. Think along the lines of Bread and Circuses and Brave New World. The "news" is reporting that some stupid socialite bimbo was all over some singer with a sexist song after some other singer bimbo got nearly naked on stage for her part of his performance. Other "news" is reporting on some stupid gal who had sex on camera with some stupid guy that had sex with some pathetic gal that has tested positive for HIV, and the only close-to-relevant part is that the original gal was engaging in sexual exchanges with a guy that wants to be mayor of a really big city.
We don't have to have an oppressive government; we're fat-and-happy to the point that we don't care what our government does as long as our big-screen TVs provide us with enough sensationalism to keep us occupied by the 24 hour "news" cycle.
The sad thing, really, is that I expect that the vast majority of people are so boring that there isn't even anything interesting to know about them by watching them.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
what's the point of surveillance when everyone knows that you are doing it?
You never read 1984 or you didn't fully comprehend it.
The message is, "you will fall in line, or we WILL find you". The patient and therefore smart move is to set up the surveillence infrastructure first, get people used to the idea, and then become a more oppressive government. The only power governments have over their own citizens is against people who break the law.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
So, what's the EFF using for email these days? :)
paper and pencil via carrier pigeon?
just curious.....
You're funny, but that stopped being true about say 5 years ago - with the rise of social media came even better crowdsourcing, so we'd have that stuff split open in under a month.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I already know what they're gonna say:
Here was a block of asterisks in the shape of a piece of paper, but the junk filter got me. So, visual funny gone, stupid rant added. Anyways, the whole thing will be mostly black lines and some page numbers, maybe part of some letterhead.
and so on
* Hopefully this will get around the "junk" filter - I mean, I'm displaying a visual representation here, /.. Alas, the technology to differentiate between meaningless spam and an approximation of what a gov't document will look like isn't there yet. Maybe a linked image would do? But no one follows the links
What way better to hide your transgressions.
I wonder how much of this stuff is already out in the wild thanks to Edward Snowden's efforts. Not much point if all this shit turns out to have already been released. It wouldn't surprise me if a good chunk of this is old news.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
Define oppression the way some of us do, and your argument falls flat.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
What part of 'Foreign' does the NSA and their lawyers not understand? It must be a publiek skooling thing, no child left behind and all that...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
The sad thing, really, is that I expect that the vast majority of people are so boring
Thank heavens for that, you were starting to depress me.
Okay, define it, in as many words as you need. Mind you, I look on what's going down as being potential for later oppression, not occurring oppression, especially from the Federal level. I expect that state or local levels will actually infringe or outright oppress with much greater likelihood affecting my life than the Federal government will in practical matters. What they're doing is wrong, but it hasn't reached a level that causes behavioral changes in the bulk of the population. Once it really does that in earnest then use of the word applies.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Dislike Obama all you like, but jesus christ, are you 12? Obummer? Really?
I'm not from the US but here are some things I've noticed that are fairly oppressive.
They control and monitor your traveling, communication and associations. They'll throw you in jail for consuming certain substances. Force you to admit guilt (being guilty or not) on threat of overwhelming jail times or punishments. Justice seems more like something bought than something inherent. Large smear campaigns of anyone that would dare stand against them.
(All instances of "they" or "them" refer to the abstract cohesion of a large bureaucratic body.)
Here's one of the first documents released.
Try to control your excitement.
"They control and monitor your traveling, communication and associations.
not really. No one tells me whether or not I can go someplace.
" They'll throw you in jail for consuming certain substances."
Also, speeding, parachuting into unauthorized airspace. So what?
I can't help but notice marijuana is being reduced. Its at a political change pace(slow) but it is changing. This president has made great strides. Yo do know that a mojority of AMericans want it to be illegal, right?
" Force you to admit guilt (being guilty or not) on threat of overwhelming jail times or punishments."
extremely rare.
" Large smear campaigns of anyone that would dare stand against them."
Politically? i.e. candidate v. candidate? yes. Otherwise, not so much. WHere is the large campaign against the EFF?
You need to top getting how thing in america work from TV Shows and slashdot.
"All instances of "they" or "them" refer to the abstract cohesion of a large bureaucratic body.
which is why I hate the term. The US government is made up of several agencies/bureaus. Each one with a differing about of bureaucracy.
Do you know why mankind invented bureaucracy? so we can do complex things well.
What people don't like to notice is that when something does come out, it's almost allows overall minor, and people get punished.
the US isn't oppressive in any meaningful way. Oppressive governments don't release information about things that went wrong.
For example: The DOD encyclopedia of ethical failures.
www.dod.mil/dodgc/defense_ethics/dod_oge/eef_complete_2012.doc
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
They don't monitor or control all of my traveling. Yes, there are places where my license plate will be noted. There are also places where I may be stopped by an immigration officer. On the other hand, if I headed out, right now, for a 5000 mile road trip no one would stop me or attempt to even find out why I was doing it. I could also buy a cash bus ticket, or hitchhike, or rent a car, or ride a bicycle, and they wouldn't know where I was or where I was headed.
They don't monitor or control all of my communications. I have a ham radio license and I could talk to other hams and it's exceedingly unlikely that they're monitoring all of the available EM spectrum. If your definition of control includes the miniscule licensing requirements, I could use CB radio, or FRS radio. Or cheapo open-spectrum walkie-talkies. I can send mail through private shipping companies or private couriers and it'll arrive untouched and unopened. Ironically, I'm probably more secure using a landline phone to call another landline phone, as the rules for what they're allowed to do with those are actually more strict.
I have never been approached due to my associations. I am acquainted with a man in my community that was successfully prosecuted for weapons violations, and whose organization at the time was infiltrated because of a video they made and distributed that gave practical advice for destroying large buildings with explosives. After he served his three or so years for having an assault rifle modified for full-auto fire, he's free to be associated with again, and his only significant restriction is that he's not allowed to own guns anymore. This is a man that could well have been justifiably branded as a terrorist or a member of a terrorist cell, and yet his illegal acts got him only three years off and a need to check in with a parole officer once a month, even under Janet Reno's prosecution. I don't run into him very often, but he's otherwise free to come and go as he pleases. I've also never had any issues with some of the very extreme college professors that I've had classes from, and these people are published in their extreme views.
I don't feel that I can comment on the drugs side. I've known people that have gotten busted and basically got released with misdemeanor charges, though I've heard of cases where people received much stronger sentences than their offenses justified. But, remember, the bulk of these prosecutions are at the state level, not the federal level, and are very much inconsistent from state to state. A former coworker of mine noted that in Illinois, possession of a personal quantity of marijuana would result in a civil citation like a parking ticket, as opposed to the criminal prosecution like it would see here.
As for charges, the state will file any and all charges against you that prosecutors feel are appropriate. But, it's a paper tiger in some ways. You'll note that there have been examples of late like the Casey Anthony trial and the George Zimmerman trial where the prosecution lost, even though it appeared that they had very strong cases. Plus, even though it's not as common as it should be, sometimes the authorities themselves are arrested and convicted of their crimes too. On top of that, if defendants and defense attorneys decided to start forcing prosecutions to all go to trial instead of being plead down, it would break the judiciary. There literally would not be enough time to try everyone. A lack of ability to try everyone does not strike me as a hallmark of a police state.
I'm curious as to what you mean by "smear ca
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
not really. No one tells me whether or not I can go someplace.
Hop on a plane to Cuba then. Or make too many trips to some place like Iran (that's where the monitoring comes in).
So what?
Awh yes. So it's not oppressive because you don't care about it. Sorry, I wasn't aware that was the metric we were using. They have no reason to do it. That's why it is oppressive. There have been many places where the majority has said otherwise. They get overruled.
extremely rare.
I was under the impression that "plea bargaining" was business as usual. At least I've read of a few prominent prosecutors use that as an excuse.
Otherwise, not so much.
Assange, Manning, Snowdon. All of them had a lot of effort put into discrediting their reputability.
which is why I hate the term. The US government is made up of several agencies/bureaus. Each one with a differing about of bureaucracy.
In the great words of geekoid "so what?" They still all come together to make things how they are.
Do you know why mankind invented bureaucracy? so we can do complex things well.
And that means bureaucracy is always good right? That it can never cause problems and be counter-productive?
the US isn't oppressive in any meaningful way.
They have the highest prison population in the world! I'd consider that a meaningful way. There is something wrong there! You have only defined "meaningful" as something that directly affects yourself. There is at least one very famous quote I can think of dealing with that exact outlook. They are not oppressive in the same way as other prominent examples but that does not mean everything is A-Ok. Sometimes I think the worst thing people like Stalin, Lenin and Hitler did to this world weren't their massive crimes against humanity but instead the fact that now people say: "Everything is fine because at least we're not under _X_".
Nah how about...
I don't care about the people? i care about selling weapons and drugs and virgin pussy!.did I say weapons? i drink lot wait.. You SPYED on ME!!!!! you lucky i sold all working nuks already or I FUCKING KILL you...
Anyway your Snowden ok guy. WORK HARD breaking in your nsa for us now... and only wanted hot stripper and nice computer gear with flat pannels! Not even care much about money!?!... very good deal... you stupid Americans not know how to treat your surveillance peoples. Capitalist too cheap, think war is game. i show you game. I call it Russian Roulette. COME we play and drunk with whores. life is good! no? you black man dont u like big buts and do not care? dog you need get away from das Christian wierdo's... they make you think god care about people! god only care about god and pussy! Russian Pussy! It best kind because it part of Russian Women.. they not talk back! know they get beat to death.
All good in homeland. pussy pussy! everywhere pussy! Wait... where my drink.?. WHO fuckin take it AH! best not be your NSA or I use chemical weapon on you! they ready to go. already sold but I give buyer good deal on some Pu235... that shut them up. What you look at me like that? eh? you scared of radiation? it not bad. make you strong! Russia land of radiation! glorious radiation! scientist make best friends. so CHEAP! just want lab and make me MONEY! sooo much money i shit on it....
awww why you cry? rule of law broken? you give me talking to? ah? ah? You sad sad little man... but I give you good deal on slightly used virgin bride!? you no tell wife! put her down in war room under whites house... eh? good deal?!? how bout twins? they no spies. no really.. I just pay your people now it much easier.... learned from you in 80s?! why you change what work so good? you run drugs, sell arms, train terrorist but now? eh! You teach us sooo much... WE learned, now you stupid. how happen that? yo want to go back to cold war? we play along... good business! how about? ah?
It's ok friend you come to Russia! We got lots of PUSSY, DRUGS AND MONEYS!!!! You member of anonymous? We hire on SPOT! no questions. Even give you license to kill 5 people a year... We don't care... This is Russia!!! We land of glorious freedoms! Come, I show you. You meet famous ex-nsa man! He show you too. Now has many different PUSSIES to choose from plus bide to cook and clean... all state funded welfare for government spy workers.... it not ugly pussy... no..no..no trick you like that... those for stupid people, no skill... You come visit.... Be guest, we give free list of credit card numbers when come and even programmer... you must give back, honor system.. programmers very expensive, so in demand! You not show anyone, all be good....
Yours in Moscow,
V. PUTIN, OVER 9000 STRONGEST EVER!
We can only hope they release a PDF version as well... Shhh say NOTHING! KNOW NOTHING!!!!
You seem to think oppressive means totalitarian. It doesn't.
Oppressive just means oppressive. Why don't you look it up, instead of thinking it means something else.
I can oppress you and admit to it. I can even admit its wrong. Telling your citizens to report each other for being suspicious is step one to being oppressive. Tapping phone lines is a big step too.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)