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California Legislature Approves Trial Program For Electronic Plates
Do you worry that the widespread use of plate-scanning cameras might be used in ways that violate your privacy ? Now you can ratchet your worry level up a bit: Ars Technica reports that "This week, the California State Senate approved a bill that would create the nation’s first electronic license plate. Having already passed the state’s assembly, the bill now goes to Gov. Jerry Brown (D) for his signature." From the article: "The idea is that rather than have a static piece of printed metal adorned with stickers to display proper registration, the plate would be a screen that could wirelessly (likely over a mobile data network) receive updates from a central server to display that same information. In an example shown by a South Carolina vendor, messages such as 'STOLEN,' 'EXPIRED,' or something similar could also be displayed on a license plate. ... The state senator who introduced the bill, Sen. Ben Hueso, a Democrat who represents San Diego, did not respond to Ars' multiple requests for an interview or comment. It still remains unclear as to exactly why this bill was proposed and what its objectives are. The precise technical details of the program are similarly unclear, as is how long plate information would be retained and who would have access to it."
What privacey?
receive updates from a central server to display that same information. In an example shown by a South Carolina vendor, messages such as 'STOLEN,' 'EXPIRED,' or something similar could also be displayed on a license plate.
You don't think thieves would get around that by stealing other cars' license plates and swapping the plate/screen of the stolen car with other non-stolen vehicles?
On the other hand... if the plate is controlled by the car's computer; the thief will likely have a defeat for this as well. At a distance you won't be able to tell that the plate or electronics have been tampered with, to prevent the plate from changing to STOLEN.
with American/western parts. This is a perfect opportunity for re-building industries.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
no stable system has been proposed, only a concept, and yet we're willing to confide in private industry to fill in the gaps? what happens if a rock hits my expensive plate? how much more will this cost than a traditional plate? whats to prevent me from reverse-engineering the plate and reducing an entire parking garage to STOLEN?
hundreds of questions remain unanswered. legalizing the plates is one thing but unless there is more transparency in the trial program or its restricted to a small minority of state vehicles i cant see this as any sort of appropriate service to californians from their duly elected government. and given the nature of devops and software engineering in general, isnt it a bit hasty for a "trial program?" Shouldnt this proceed more like googles autonomous driver system as opposed to make;make install; plate.exe; "we're good!" or at very least throw it around the security community and see if we can break it first (im assuming it would be trivial.)
Good people go to bed earlier.
What could go wrong with these? Invariably it will be hacked and someone will broadcast the "stolen" message to all the cards around her/him. Hopefully it'll be possible to send custom messages out to the plates.
Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
So, when there is a hit-and-run accident the witnesses will be telling the police to hunt for the car with license plate number "EXPIRED"?
When it comes to money spent on mailing out renewal stickers, it seems rather obvious to me that they could also save that money by passing the cost of postage onto the drivers that want their renewal stickers mailed. One could, obviously, go into the DMV in person when renewing, and pick up renewal stickers themselves, thereby saving the money on said postage, although I imagine that the hassles of probably waiting in a long line-up are more than enough to make the cost of the drivers paying for postage themselves to probably be worthwhile.
Electronic plates.... sheesh! Talk about unnecessarily overcomplicating something !
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Clearly, California must have the single best quality roads in the entire world.
In the Northeast US, come spring, your license plate looks like a sand-blasted salt-shaker. These no doubt fairly expensive (large LCD screen and cell enabled?) license plates would last less than a year.
But hey, don't let that pesky ol' reality get in the way of yet another way for Uncle Sam to track our every move!
I can't wait to hack one, that way I can change my plate on the fly. Metal plates are a hassle to fake, but an electronic plate that is designed to change at the push of a button is going to make counterfeiting super easy.
Hell, you could have your plate change to a new (fake) number every time the odometer clicks over another mile. That will pollute all those fancy ANPR databases. You could really screw with those ANPR systems by using your own ANPR via a dash-cam that scans on-coming cars and once they have passed, switches your plate to that other car's license number.
Either way you'll have a very small chance of getting caught since it will change so fast and you don't even need to stop the car to do it. Besides, normally no one even looks at your plate unless something bad has already happened,
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
This is such a useless and easily defeated idea, that someone is surely lined up to make a vast fortune off of it.
speaking as someone whose car battery was dead for months snd recently replaced
Sigh, these policymakers always want the answer to come from some technology that they don't have to do any work for, on a problem that doesn't affect many people
How about we first start with the things that are bigger problems for every day drivers? Highway design and traffic control? Road works and maintenance? How about the condition of public transit? Then after that, get to things like policing of carpool lanes, or people who drive around with license plates obscured. Maybe after all that we can get to your fancy electronic license plates.
These Sacramento politicians love to do anything that doesn't require their own state agencies to improve. Or anything except examine the way that they spend our money.
... California has a referendum procedure. Can't the Californians vote this sort of shit so far down that they'll be looking for it in the Marianas Trench?
All residents will at birth have a LED light installed on their palm. It will start blinking red when they are determined to be any of the following a criminal, late on their taxes, obese, too skinny, too old, rude, carnivore, non-Christian, non-White, non-Demoncrat, Tea Party members or have been randomly selected for giving up their space on earth for the good of the environment.
Blinking red means cops get to hunt you down and kill you.
Because they adopt silly solutions to problems that don't exist. Instead of a metal plate with a sticker, they want an electronic screen that is forced to communicate with a server. What could possibly go wrong? Do they really believe such devices won't be hacked? And the cost is likely 10 times what you are forced to pay now.
Government is the problem, not the solution. Stop hiding behind their skirts and rebel.
If plates become electronic and networked, then the question needs to be asked, why do we even need a license plate to display a number at all.
Probably rather then being a screen- it'll still be metal, still have stickers; but now you get a gps, cell modem, and of course it will tie into the can-bus on the car so they can shut it down whenever. they need to set the stage to be able to take control of those autonomous cars that will be coming. Think of the money we'll save on police officers, they'll just have the car lock the doors and drive you right to jail.
CNSFSNP: Complex Non-Solution For Simple Non-Problem
Admittedly, idiot is often, but not always, an appropriate alternative term.
-WolvesOfTheNight
So does this mean a new revenue generator (concealed as a tax) is soon to be placed on vehicles? Will California now sell advertising on these new tags? You heard it from me first.
Someone in the legislature has ties and is getting kickbacks from the company that makes the technology, so they have a huge financial incentive to push thru this blatantly-invasive technology that will ultimately cost the taxpayers millions of dollars and provide virtually zero benefit.
See: red light cameras.
In related news, the California Attorney General is now investigating why every car in the state fleet now has a license plate flashing "WASH ME!".
When you can just scan the occupants instead?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The objective is to make money for the company which paid into Ben Hueso's campaign fund and which, shocker!!, just happens to make exactly this sort of item or has "key patents" on it. Whenever something smells fishy, follow the money. Just ask yourself, "Who stands to benefit financially from this?" and you'll have your answer.
Who will be paying the for the data roaming fees then? or what happens if you are in area with no data network will it say error? default to EXPIRED? What good is STOLEN when some one can use a cell blocker to stop that from showing up?
Some stuff like the radio resets when the battery is removed so will the system lose it's info when you do a battery swap?
My truck is over 30 years old. It doesn't have a CAN bus. And the fuse feeding the GPS/modem keeps blowing.
Have gnu, will travel.
pay $15-$20 a meg for data.
" In an example shown by a South Carolina vendor, "
>South Carolina vendor
>California State Senate
Of course this would come from states that gets hardly any real weather. The advantage of dumb-stamped-metal plates is that they are dumb. They require no batteries, electronics, etc, that need to be shielded from snow, rain, sleet, salt, rocks kicked up from the road, or falling meteors. Sure, you can take an electronic picture frame and put it on a car to display this stuff. Good luck weather-proofing it for cheap. Not gonna happen.
Go look at how much a Toughbook costs compared to a similarly powered normal laptop.
There's a solution to this that's more reliable and cheaper, and it's already out there.
Encourage the use of EZ-Pass. Not only can EZ-Pass be detected by toll booths, but you can have readers in police cruisers. Done.
--
BMO
No more retro-reflective license plates. So no more cop lasers. On many vehicles, the only thing that provides sufficient return for the laser pulse is the license plate. Other surfaces are either non-reflective or scatter the beam.
The cops hate my truck. Any impact with grass or brush (driving off road) bends the front plate to hell, scrapes it up and effectively makes it non reflective. I've been pulled over a few times when they get no laser return off it and told to get a new plate. Which will last for about three months.
Have gnu, will travel.
This is beyond idiocy. A physical license plate has many advantages over an electronic one.
1. You can't hack a physical non-electronic plate.
2. Physical plates serve as excellent reminders of who was where, especially in the cases of drunk idiots slamming into your car so hard THAT THEY LEAVE A PERFECT IMPRINT OF THEIR PLATE IN REVERSE on your car for easier tracking later on.
3. Creation of physical plates does not result in as much pollution compared to electronic ones.
4. Most physical plates are still quite usable after an accident. Electronic plate isn't going to be so useful after one fender bender, most likely.
5. Electrical system problems might mean your car works but your license plate does not.
I see one advantage the electronic plate might have - you won't need those license plate lights any longer, and those stupid neon license plate frames won't interfere with the visibility of an electronic plate emitting its own light versus a physical plate that relies upon the reflection of light.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
the mark of the best people will not let that happen and the Amish and other Regions will sue to stop that from being forced on them.
here's what I noticed when I went to CA DMV to search:
"To assist you better, your DMV website session is being recorded for quality assurance."
near the bottom of the page. Guess e-plates are just another extension of the surveillance mentality already in place.
FTFA: This product also allows that screen, once a vehicle comes to a stop for four seconds or longer, to display a different image on the plate such as an advertisement.
*facepalm* Just what we need. Moar advertising!
Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
So this sounds like a nice, bright LCD with wireless capability and some kind of processor, carried around on the outside of everybody's car. You think plates get stolen a lot now? Just wait.
Because that sure would be handy when I'm coming up to an intersection or within range of a known traffic camera so that my plate can toggle to the governor's personal license plate number or that guy from accounting I don't like.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
I can't wait for the spoofs on the politicians' license plates come next election.
Step 1: Receive Plate
Step 2: Microwave Plate
Step 3: Place non functional plate on car.
Step 4: Profit
Notice how they can communicate with it. This opens up time+distance= speeding ticket. It also could help in tracking the car/driver. There are so many ways it could be abused that it is very scary.
If you actually see these on a vehicle? Smash it, if you can. It's a retarded, expensive, and privacy-threatening idea, and our retarded politicians need to have it demonstrated to them, in no uncertain terms, that it is NOT practical and will NOT be tolerated. So destroy them when you see them, destroy them utterly.
Someone (e.g. Compliance Innovations) stands to make a lot of CA residents money with this. It would surprise me if legislature was NOT "lobbied" to come up with this otherwise what is the point? Electronic plates serve no practically useful purpose and offer a number of headaches including product cost, installation cost, maintenance/technical assistance, public / privacy issues, hacking exposure..etc.
Recommendation to CA residents: Vote the bums out.
Does anyone have knowledge of a petition against this? Please post the URL and spread it far and wide so maybe we can still nip this bullshit in the bud.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
They complain that mailing license plate sticker is a pain and cost a lot of money...well why they are still using them? They are so easy to counterfeit! Here in Quebec, we discontinued the use of them since 1992.
The summary pushes this as a way to make plate readers even worse, but really smart plates are kind of the opposite of plate readers, and each makes the other less useful. You can either make the plates smart so critical data can be read by "dumb" human readers, or you can make the readers smart enough to read critical info from dumb plates. The "STOLEN" message can be e-printed on the plate, or it can pop up on the police cruiser's screen as the car drives by. Doing both is redundant.
The main difference is that an e-ink plate can be read by people who aren't cops, while the plate reader can give a lot more information to the cops, whether you're breaking the law or not. If "neither" is not an option, smart plates come out ahead on civil liberties grounds. But see my post below on technical problems.
There's a major design problem here: what happens when the plate has no cell reception?
* If it keeps displaying the plate number, then a car thief, murderer, or whatever can cover the plate with a transparent conductive film to create a Faraday cage, and keep on driving.
* If it automatically switches off, or changes to read "NO SIGNAL" or something, then every law-abiding citizen in a cell coverage hole will be driving around with no license plate.
Also, there are some technology issues with the display. License plates are not just pieces of painted metal: they have retro-reflective glass spheres embedded in them so that they're visible in headlights. E-ink displays use some clever optical tricks that I think won't work with retroreflective coatings.
They say it's about changing plates to say "EXPIRED" or "STOLEN"; but I think the real reason they want it at this point is so they can Monetize drivers' license plates, BY renting out advertising space
They can also use some of the AD slots to show PRO-ADMINISTRATION political messages; reminders to get out and vote Democrat, etc.
Someone just remind Gov. Jerry Brown that lots of conservative politicos from the central valley will be trying to remotely hack the plate on the gubernatorial limo to say "MOONBEAM".
That'll get a veto so fast it'll outpace the refresh rate.
Wow! That! Is! Stupid!
A better idea is a small rfid sort of thing that only transmit a number. The police can look up the cars info from this number. Cheaper, more effective, more private and the only thing it gives a way is a number - just like on your metal plate.
Anarchists never rule
Yeah, the data will transmit to a central authority, who can transmit "expired" or other crap. Yeah, and they won't be tracking you either. More of your rights of free travel violated. And of course, the government will say "but driving isn't a right, it's a privilege granted by your state, and with that privilege comes restrictions". You can bet most states will jump on board with this, or, if they don't, the federal government will dangle "free money" in their face to do it, or, they will demand they do it and without federal highway money if they don't, just as they did when they forced states to lower or raise the speed limits, or raise the drinking age from some states, from 18 to 21.
As long as there's sufficient space on the new smart plate to display "Asshats at the DMV lost my smog test info again so my registration is in bureaucratic limbo."
That way you can run apps on your license plate!
Why did he propose the law? Look through his campaign contributions for any weird names and track those and I bet you will find that the company gave him significant campaign contributions. Why this isn't considered bribery I will never understand.
Cars showing that they were "Stolen by Zombies"
Why is Snark Required?
We can't establish a national ID that would ease voting, medical, census, etc., ad nauseum. However when it comes to the ability to raise revenue by prosecuting victimless crimes, the possibilities are endless. F the police, the NSA, unfettered surveillance and the world because I wanna get off.