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Sexist Presentations At Startup Competition Prompt TechCrunch Apology

Posted by samzenpus on from the lets-try-this-again dept.

beaverdownunder writes "Silicon Valley technology conference organizers TechCrunch have been forced to apologize after two Australian men pitched a smartphone app called "Titstare" in front of a nine-year-old girl. The Sydney duo's presentation had the mainly male audience laughing, but angered Twitter users and reignited a debate about sexism in the technology sector. The two entrepreneurs — Jethro Batts, 28, and David Boulton, 24 — pitched their 'tongue in cheek' idea at TechCrunch Disrupt in San Francisco on Sunday after winning expenses for the trip to the US in a similar competition, AngelHack Sydney. In their pitch, Boulton explained to an audience of hundreds (plus thousands online) that it would allow users to 'take photos of yourself, looking at tits'. 'It's science my good friend, science,' Boulton said. TechCrunch also apologized for another pitch for a product called Circle Shake, in which a man simulated masturbation."

49 of 762 comments (clear)

  1. Funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would have thought that their talk was satirical with an ironic twist, thereby not being sexist at all in the given context.

    How wrong the political correctness freaks have proved me once more!

    1. Re:Funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      The problem people have is not that these two created this app. The problem is that the conference let them present it.

      Would it be any more or less offensive if it was a similar app targeted at a specific race, religion or even political group? Would people be labeled as "PC freaks" for complaining about those apps?

      These two clowns are unemployable. Not because they are sexists and would cause a morale issue where ever they were employed, but because they displayed such poor judgement to think it was OK to present this app at an international conference instead of a real app where they could have gotten VC interest. People who make bad decisions of that magnitude usually make more bad decisions.

  2. eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That is not sexism, poor taste at best.

    1. Re:eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Objectification is conventionally considered sexism even when it doesn't contain explicit stereotypes, because it's implicitly dehumanizing.

      Would it have been sexist if the talk were given by a woman? I don't know about you, but I know a few women (yes, mature adults) who would use that app. Objectification by members of the opposite sex is considered sexism by the PC crowd. When my wife does it, it's OK. Or when a woman gets breast implants so her tits will get noticed, it's OK. When my lesbian friends do it, it's OK. But when a young man does it, somehow it is now sexism?

      I call it bullshit.

    2. Re:eh? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, women can be sexist. Objectification can go both ways, and can even be homosexual. Oddly, in public avenues like these, it almost always appears to come from politically dominant classes, and these hypothetical questions are almost never relevant. How strange is that?

    3. Re:eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Once upon a time these things had a meaningful definition but now everything that's bad or insensitive gets clumped there even though it's miles away from the original concept. Thus, now we get to live in a world where making stereotypical joke is conventionally considered the same as genuinely claiming that some groups of people are inferior to others and discriminating against them is okay.

    4. Re:eh? by hedwards · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's called selection bias. Whenever I see it around here, it's generally women. Mainly because men are too afraid of having a spurious law suit filed against them.

      Most of the lectures on equal rights are really just a cover for feminist propaganda. Tons of statistics taken out of context and god help any that bother to point out that there's cherry picking going on to make things look bad for women.

    5. Re:eh? by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let's get something straight. Men are not politically dominant. Rich men are politically dominant.

      If men in general were politically dominant, then it wouldn't be the case that 75% of all homeless people are male while there are numerous homeless shelters that cater strictly to women.

      If men in general were politically dominant, then we wouldn't have men being forced to pay child support for children that the courts acknowledge aren't even theirs.

      If men in general were politically dominant, then Title IX wouldn't instruct colleges to kick out men on the mere allegation of sexual misconduct (the "preponderance of evidence" clause) rather than requiring actual evidence.

      --

      Technoli
    6. Re:eh? by Vanderhoth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Case in point. St. Mary's University in Nova Scotia, Canada. Have a look at some of the outrage there. Drunk students during frosh week sang a chant that's been going on for a couple of years. "Young, Y = Your sister, O = Oh, so tight, U = Under age, N = No consent, G = Grab that ass, St. Mary's boys like them young".

      The students that took part in the chant were sent for sensitivity training. It seems like everyone and their dog wanted these kids expelled and sent to jail for conspiracy to commit a criminal act. Anyone that says, it's a bunch of stupid drunk teens out on their own for the first time is met with accusations of being pedophiles and death threats.

      Read the comment section, there are tons of people throwing outrage and expect the boys to be castrated, despite the fact that more than half of the participants were female.

    7. Re:eh? by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If men in general were politically dominant, then it wouldn't be the case that 75% of all homeless people are male

      Homelessness is often correlated with mental illness, which is preponderant in men. Next.

      there are numerous homeless shelters that cater strictly to women.

      Those are battered women shelters. Domestic abuse is still heavily skewed towards women being victims, largely because they are on average physically weaker.

      If men in general were politically dominant, then we wouldn't have men being forced to pay child support for children that the courts acknowledge aren't even theirs.

      A single anecdote based on a time frame where men where so dominant socially and politically that a divorced mother would be condemned to a life of abject poverty. The reason for these laws is because it used to be that women were incapable of finding jobs anything other than secretaries or nurses. Add to that that mothers were in the vast majority of cases "home makers", being divorced was close to a poverty sentence.

      If men in general were politically dominant, then Title IX wouldn't instruct colleges to kick out men on the mere allegation of sexual misconduct (the "preponderance of evidence" clause) rather than requiring actual evidence.

      You watched too much CSI. Preponderance of evidence is the standard for any civil case. Which is what Title IX cases fall under.

      I agree that some feminist claims, as well as laws designed to deal with male supremacy need to be revisited. But your examples aren't helping your argument.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    8. Re:eh? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To be fair, advocating a felony is actually an exception to free-speech, and would likely have been sent to jail for suggesting murder instead of rape with their chant. People tend to not have a sense of humor about things where they think their safety is actively being threatened.

    9. Re:eh? by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oddly, in public avenues like these, it almost always appears to come from politically dominant classes, and these hypothetical questions are almost never relevant.

      That is simply untrue. For example, in the last big media hoopla about this, it was Adria Richards complaining about men making a joke about 'dongles' after she had, at the exact same event, made a joke about stuffing socks in your pants to make the TSA think they were your dick. The only reason you think that the jokes come predominantly from men is because you are a misandrist.

  3. Should have done it on MTV by Chemisor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So it's wrong for a guy to talk about "taking a picture of yourself staring at tits" and to simulate masturbation in public, but it's perfectly all right for Miley Cyrus to do the same (and more!) on national television in front of millions of people? I guess they should have done it on MTV; then it would have been ok.

    1. Re:Should have done it on MTV by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Interesting equating you have going on there.

      Miley Cyrus is well known for gyrating in from of millions of viewers at conferences.

      You also have the nice piece of logic "well someone else did something bad so this bad thing is ok too".

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:Should have done it on MTV by catfood · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If he wants to make the statement that feminists were all cool with the Cyrus performance, he should check and do his damn research first. Knowing what you are talking about is important.

    3. Re:Should have done it on MTV by Lasrick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Jesus. Why do you change the subject? Did I or anyone say it's okay to present graphic violence as entertainment? You are deflecting from discussion about what these two grown men did at a professional conference, which many people attended for the technical information. When you buy a ticket to a movie or a performance, you have a general idea of what you are going to get. If you want to see gratuitous sex and/or violence, you may choose to do so. And others may choose not to. When at a professional conference, the intent is altogether different. People are there for a variety of reasons, and having these men push their sexist, misogynist agenda on them is wrong.

    4. Re:Should have done it on MTV by djlemma · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What, exactly, makes you think that people consider Miley Cyrus' behavior to be "perfectly all right"? Seems like the overwhelming reaction to her performance was one of disgust.

    5. Re:Should have done it on MTV by QilessQi · · Score: 1, Insightful

      (Laughs.) You don't know much about feminism, do you? It sounds like you're listening to too much talk radio, and not enough real people.

      Your loss, my friend. Feminists are just people who believe that women should receive equal pay for equal work, should have the right to control their own bodies, and should have the right to be treated with respect regardless of what they're wearing.

      All the smart geek girls I know are feminists. All the really smart geek guys are too -- because they're the ones who end up with the smart geek girls. :-)

      --
      Koans and fables for the software engineer
    6. Re:Should have done it on MTV by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That was true 50 years ago. These days, there's very little actual feminism left.

      WTF? Seriously WTF are you talking about. Let's see...

      As for those blogs, I won't go there any more because it's mostly man bashing and tripe about how women deserve things that they haven't earned

      So because you've found some man hating blogs you come to the conclusion that no "feminism" exists. Want to see some real feminism in action? Read many of the comments in this thread.

      Stupid people did a stupid presentation of the sort that makes a large segment of the population feel marginalised and are being vilified for it. Much of feminism is not being a douchbag to females.

      Any man that's a feminist is a turn coat that should be avoided.

      Turncoat? Wow you have a massive persecution complex. So men who feel women should be treated equally are "turncoats"? Wow.

      Never trust anybody that's learned to hate their own kind.

      It's your personal definition (shared with a lot of men who inexplicably seem to hate women, but not shared with the dictionary) of feminism that means "men hating". I don't hate men. I just don't think they are superior to women.

      Sort of like those self hating Jews.

      what are you on about?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    7. Re:Should have done it on MTV by stdarg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your loss, my friend. Feminists are just people who believe that women should receive equal pay for equal work, should have the right to control their own bodies, and should have the right to be treated with respect regardless of what they're wearing.

      You're so naive! If that's all feminists want, they should unify around that message instead of all the garbage about the patriarchy. I mean really, what does the crusade against the word "women" (womyn!!!) have to do with what you said? Don't pretend that type of feminism doesn't also exist.

      Also I disagree with the right to be treated with respect regardless of what you wear. That does not exist for either sex.

    8. Re:Should have done it on MTV by QilessQi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're so naive! If that's all feminists want, they should unify around that message instead of all the garbage about the patriarchy. I mean really, what does the crusade against the word "women" (womyn!!!) have to do with what you said? Don't pretend that type of feminism doesn't also exist.

      Of course that type of extremist feminism exists. So does the type of Christianity which believes that Jews are servants of Satan. Should we judge all Christians because a small percentage of self-declared Christians are irrational bigots? No. So don't pick the most radical fringe of self-declared feminism and argue that all feminists are like that. Because if you know better, then you're arguing disingenuously; and if you don't know better, then you're the one who's naive.

      Also I disagree with the right to be treated with respect regardless of what you wear. That does not exist for either sex.

      If it becomes commonplace for a man to be roofied and gang-raped by a bunch of women, and then told by the cops "well, he was asking for it because he was dressed provocatively", then I'll believe that we've achieved parity. But we both know that won't happen.

      And if you don't believe in the right of all people to be treated with basic human respect regardless of gender and appearance, then you're on the wrong side of history.

      --
      Koans and fables for the software engineer
    9. Re:Should have done it on MTV by GuB-42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are plenty of variations of feminism, but the most vocal are the kind that don't just want to be treated as equals, they want to be superior.

      Also, none of the smart geek girls I know are feminists, they don't have to.
      They usually handle working around men quite well while still being feminine. In fact almost all of them prefer that to all-women workspaces. And if they do a good job (and they do because they are smart ;)), not only they get all due respect but they are also defended by their colleagues in case someone gets the wrong idea.

  4. Re:Congratulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm offended by your post. You should be forced to apologize.

  5. It's not about the 9-year-old girl by catfood · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It would have been just as sexist without her there.

    1. Re:It's not about the 9-year-old girl by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's sexist because it reduces the chances of any woman being there in future, 9 years old or not.

      Really? So some idiot pitching an idiotic app about looking at tits causes some sort of wibbly-wobbly time-space anomaly, one that physically prevents members of the female gender from appearing at that location again?

      In general people don't go to places where they are made to feel uncomfortable.

      Being in the presence of immature morons makes most normal people unconfortable.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
  6. Sexist, or just stupid? by guytoronto · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not sure this is sexist. I see it as just plain stupid to present something like this to a conference. It's two young programmers who didn't really think things through.

  7. Re:Congratulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I am offended at your offense.

  8. Re:Congratulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nonsense. This is an isolated incident. The people putting women off technology are those going around claiming that all men are like this, and that it's a widespread problem.

  9. Re:Immaturity, not necessarily sexism. by catfood · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Giving a 24-year-old man and a 28-year-old man free passes on creepy behavior you might gently correct in a 10-year-old boy? Yeah, that's pretty sexist.

    If you're going to give a presentation at a tech conference, yes, a certain level of maturity is required. Letting that go because "boys will be boys" is privileged bullshit.

  10. Please just get over it! by Pikoro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Women have boobs. People jerk off. Stop trying to hide obvious human sexuality issues from everyone. EVERYONE does this stuff. Why hide it? This puritan crap needs to go away.

    --
    "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
  11. Stupidity != sexism by hsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Breaking news: men are fascinated with breasts. It is pretty much universal and isn't sexist.

    Obviosuly their display in front of children was uncalled for.

    But something to do with gender doesn't mean it is sexist. It is killing what true sexism is, real discrimination.

  12. Re:Congratulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Male feminists are the worst.

  13. Re:Congratulations by Myu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oh, ffs, the reason you don't make category-targetted jokes like this isn't because it causes offense (it does, and people are entitled to be offended, but that's neither here nor there), but because it's a pointed act of exclusion. Some people are offended by my use of the term "ffs", and that's fine, they are right to be offended, and I'm being offensive here for a reason. But I'm not in the process of making this point telling those same people that they're not welcome in this discussion. Approvingly presenting a product about staring at women's chests in a technology conference very much is.

    --
    Myu: ... The map's upside down...
  14. Sadly, they're looking at symptoms. by intermodal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The real problem is that we have reached the point where the puritanical values have caused men's reactions to breasts to become national news, and to where breastfeeding mothers are made to feel they are doing something shameful.

    Stupid, stupid Americans. I doubt the Aussies even considered America's hypersensitivity in the process.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  15. Re:Congratulations by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How do we stop racism? Stop talking about it.

    Yeah, Martin Luther King Jr should have just STFU about his dreams.

    IOW sometimes shutting up is not the right choice.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  16. Re:Congratulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, Martin Luther King Jr should have just STFU about his dreams.

    IOW sometimes shutting up is not the right choice.

    Martin Luther King Jr. lived in a vastly different time.

    It's 2013 and a black guy's President. Not that black people - or rather, people in general - should not be on guard for it... But the current media frenzy over making every single goddamned thing that happens a racial issue? Time to put Sharpton and Friends into the closet. Keep picking at a wound and it won't heal. Keep pretending we're still in the 60s and we'll never leave them.

  17. Typical hypocrisy of the politically correct. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Political correctness is inextricably linked with hypocrisy. It is impossible to be politically correct without becoming a hypocrite.

    One cannot take a stand against "exclusion" or "intolerance" without becoming exactly that which they stand against. Not tolerating those who are intolerant is in itself a form of intolerance. Excluding those who wish to engage in exclusionary behavior is in itself a form of exclusion.

    The inherently hypocritical and contradictory nature of political correctness means that it is an intellectually invalid position to take. Anyone who professes to embrace political correctness cannot be taken seriously.

  18. Re:Power trip and nothing more. by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Part of being a functional adult is being able to navigate the society you live in. Telling tit jokes to a mixed audience is not adult behavior.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  19. Re:Congratulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In what way is staring/commenting on a womans tits "not treating them like a human being"? Its very easy to know that women are humans and still admire a nice set of tits. Just like a woman can know a man is a human and still admire his pecs or his dick or whatever. Youre an idiot.

  20. Re:Congratulations by ImdatS · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Feminism, Sexism, Machoism, ...ism, ...ism, ...ism...

    I'm still searching for Humanism, believing that that would be the solution. But, alas, it seems I'm always searching in all the wrong places...

  21. Re:Congratulations by AlphaWoIf_HK · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Oh, ffs, the reason you don't make category-targetted jokes like this isn't because it causes offense (it does, and people are entitled to be offended, but that's neither here nor there), but because it's a pointed act of exclusion.

    "the reason you don't"? Well, some people do, so your point went right out the window.

    Or did you mean that people shouldn't do that? If so, who are you to decide such a thing? Are you an omnipotent being who decides what is absolutely right and what is absolutely wrong? Otherwise, I'm going to have to conclude that the matter is simply subjective.

    --
    Da derp dee derp da teedly derpee derpee dum. Rated PG-13.
  22. Re:Power trip and nothing more. by ranton · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No True Adult would tell tit jokes to a mixed audience. They must not be... True Adults!

    Now, that's just vague. Who are you to decide that people who tell certain types of jokes don't act like adults (Whatever that means; it's subjective nonsense as far as I'm concerned.)?

    I agree it is hard to set unambiguous rules on what it takes to be a respectable adult. The complex nature of social human interaction is one reason why creating human-like AI is so hard.

    But luckily humans are not restricted to robot-like rule sets when determining appropriate behavior. Anyone who has trouble understanding why tit jokes in a professional mixed audience are a bad idea has some serious developmental issues. Either that or they are just an argumentative ass.

    Just because something is subjective (like respectable behavior) does not mean people should disregard that it exists.

    --
    -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
  23. Re:Congratulations by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Congratulations Jethro Batts, 28, and David Boulton, 24 for showing young women interested in technology exactly what assholes they have to look forward to growing up.

    You mean it's only 'technology' people who do/say things like this...? Thanks for the warning.

    --
    No sig today...
  24. Re:Power trip and nothing more. by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But luckily humans are not restricted to robot-like rule sets when determining appropriate behavior. Anyone who has trouble understanding why tit jokes in a professional mixed audience are a bad idea has some serious developmental issues.

    Wait, but you just said...

    So.. humans aren't restricted to robot-like rules, but any person who doesn't understand why they should have to adhere to an arbitrary set of robot-like rules "has some serious developmental issues?"

    Second thought - if this is a "professional mixed audience," why the fuck was a 9-year-old in attendance? Are child labor laws a bit more lax down under, or am I missing something here?

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  25. Re:Congratulations by squiggleslash · · Score: 1, Insightful

    No, he's not omnipotent, he's just speaking from a position of human decency and explaining what, from the point of view of prefering the world not be full of exclusionist assholes, was wrong with what these people did.

    As was obvious, but you, and it appears the moderators who are modding your bizarre little hysterics up higher than his post, have managed to miss it. Perhaps if you spend more of your life around real people, and less in your basement reading Ayn Rand novels for your homeschooling assignment, you might understand this a little better.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  26. Re:Power trip and nothing more. by LateArthurDent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Part of being a functional adult is being able to navigate the society you live in. Telling tit jokes to a mixed audience is not adult behavior.

    Mixed audience? What is this, the 1950's?

    Part of the whole thing about treating women equally is giving up on the ridiculous concept that women aren't interested in sex and that, as a result, sex jokes are only appropriate around males. Women have tits, men sometimes stare at them, pictures that catch them in the act is funny. There's no reason women shouldn't hear this joke, or feel threatened by it.

    The problem isn't that these people weren't "acting as adults." The problem is that a society that freaks out when a boob is shown for half a second in the middle of the superbowl aren't acting like adults. It's a fucking body part. It's not going to scar children for life. They've all seen it before and sucked upon it.

  27. Re:Power trip and nothing more. by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    why the fuck was a 9-year-old in attendance? Are child labor laws a bit more lax down under, or am I missing something here?

    This struck me immediately. This was clearly an adult event. I have no problem with parents deciding that their child is mature enough to handle going to an adult event, but it is ridiculous to get upset that someone at the adult event presented material that was offensive because your child was too young to see it.

    Of course, I highly question whether Titstare is anything more offensive than this nine year old girl sees on a regular basis. It certainly isn't any more sexualized than the rack of women's magazines that she would be seeing while standing in line at the grocery store with her parents. It certainly isn't any more sexualized than the 8 foot posters in the windows of Victoria Secrets at the mall. And it certainly isn't any more sexualized than the commercials that play on TV either in her own home, or in the many places outside her home that have TVs playing.

    This isn't about offensive material being presented to a child. This reeks of the same kind of misandrist behavior that we saw with the Adria Richards situation. A situation where 'sexual jokes are fine if your a woman, but if you have a penis, sexual jokes make you evil'.

  28. Re:Power trip and nothing more. by geekoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, it was clearly a professional event. Learn the difference between age and professionalism.

    I would have been offended by the lack or professionalism they had. As someone who has been in the industry for over a quarter a century, this shit needs to stop. It's hurting the industry.

    "This isn't about offensive material being presented to a child"
    Correct, its about the completely lack of professionalism, and offending half the population. It's about idiots like these making women uncomfortable, and it's about ending the boys room attitude rampant in the industry.

      'sexual jokes are fine if your a woman, but if you have a penis, sexual jokes make you evil'

    did the girl tell a sexist joke? no? then it's not the same fucking thing, is it?

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  29. Re:Power trip and nothing more. by Darinbob · · Score: 1, Insightful

    We're offended by the shoddy unprofessionalism at the conferences, and at the ongoing decline of the computing industry. We had many more females in programming in the early 80s than we do now, and part of this may be due to the rabid sexism that is not only tolerated but applauded.

    No, we absolutely do NOT need an adults-only part of a programming or computing conference. Whatever would we need that for? Are we competing with politicians to see which industry has the worst taste? If you've got a porn app, then present it at a porn conference.