Slashdot Mirror
Satellite Images Suggest N. Korea Has Restarted Small Nuclear Reactor
mdsolar writes "Recent satellite imagery suggests that North Korea has restarted a small nuclear reactor, allowing the secretive nation to potentially bolster its stockpile of plutonium for weapons, a U.S. research institute said Thursday. The North had said five months ago that it would restart key operations at its Yongbyon nuclear facility 'without delay.' The report from the U.S.-Korea Institute at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies indicates that it is quietly going ahead with that pledge — and facing few apparent problems in firing up a reactor mothballed for six years. Commercial satellite images from Aug. 31 show two plumes of white steam rising from a turbine building adjacent to the reactor. That steam is an essential byproduct of the reactor's operation, and its venting suggests the 'electrical generating system is about to come online,' the report said."
What's the US gonna do about it?
There's an important lesson in here about setting red lines...
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Hey, nuclear physics is actually pretty cool, even if this particular instance increases the odds of the end of life as we know it.
Little Kim hasn't gotten any real attention since this whole Syria thing started getting top ranking in the news. I'm sure this is just another shakedown attempt for free food and money.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
If by "end of life as we know it" you mean "another round of them being provocative to get attention and remain in the news" or "more talks of sanctions and deals" then.... yes, life as we know it is going to totally end...and by end, I mean not change one bit.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Oh, please. NK has, like, a half-dozen fission bombs. This isn't the USSR we're talking about.
It's only a minute increase, but anything that increases the likelihood of a nuclear war isn't a good thing.
Whats happens if they fuck this up like Japan did?
NK scientists are practically apes compared to Japanese scientists. Their plant goes critical, starts to irradiate NK, SK and their neighbors.
What happens then?
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
No, but with nukes, all you need to do is START shit, and the rest can take care of itself.
The timing of this announcement (plus Dennis Rodman's recent antics) makes me think that the current administration is hoping to turn to turn the page on Syria as fast as humanly possible.
I wonder how many $$ it'll cost us to shut it down this time. Maybe Kim will settle for a shiny new iPhone5S?
Hey, nuclear physics is actually pretty cool, even if this particular instance increases the odds of the end of life as we know it.
You're too pessimistic. Life as we know it inhabits Earth's crust kilometers deep. Even a thousand Kim Jong-Whoevers couldn't possibly wipe it out.
Ezekiel 23:20
Neither China nor Russia are going to start The Big One over North Korea, especially if NK shoots first.
Kim-Jong Un does not represent an existential threat to the world. He represents an existential threat to the city of Seoul, SK. He is essentially the world's largest municipal disturbance. Don't give him more credit than he deserves.
...that dog's not going to wag itself...
The conduct of the US on the world stage makes it obvious that nuclear weapons are the only deterrent
which will stop the US from attacking a country.
The conduct of the US government repeatedly makes the world a less stable and more violent place. Only a fool or a madman believes the US invades various countries because it "needs to happen".
It has nothing to do with race. The North Koreans have isolated themselves from the rest of the world for decades.
It isn't just Japan that's much more advanced, it's South Korea (who are almost identical racially) and everywhere esle.
Race baiting asshole.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Actually, I think that NK power plant is much safer than the Japanese or American ones. You mess something up and cause an accident in a Japanese or American power plant, you may get fined and lose you job. someone messes up The Powerplant That Will Bring Us Victory (not even permanent damage) - he gets shot. Not wanting to get shot is quite good motivator for people to be more careful.
NK scientists are practically apes compared to Japanese scientists.
...you are racist scum...
That's not racist.
Because they'll shoot the fucking hostages, you retard.
Seoul is a city of ten million people and even the most optimistic estimates are saying that NK will kill a half million of them if a war starts. That's without him employing his (small, crappy) stockpile of nuclear weapons. The status quo is shit but it's less shitty than reopening the Korean War.
In the ancient times my Greek ancestors, from the Corinthians to the Macedonians and from the Cretans to the Thracians, were always impressed by the Athenian rhetors that could speak for hours about a subject, so they were influenced by them in their rhetoric art - everyone except the... Spartans that could not stand that, considering all that just babble since they were famous for their Laconic style!
In one famus occasion some Greeks from an alied city state visited Sparta requesting help because their crops of grain had failed that year. In the supper they started a long speech, flatering their hosts and trying to convince the Spartans to help them with some of their spare grain, but after a while they were interapted by their hosts very rudely so in the dinner, after they thought it better, they just presented some bags and said that they need to be filled with grain... and that was Laconic enough for the Spartans to convince them!
Moral of the story: North Koreans need food... again...
"as we know it" is an important caveat, since nuclear war, even if we blew every weapon up, wouldn't destroy human civilization. We could decimate a few major cities, but there'd be plenty of people and technology left.
We exploded over 500 devices in the atmosphere in the 50s and 60s, some of them far more powerful than those currently in the stockpile (which are typically 100-300kt these days). Nuclear winter was a hoax perpetuated by Sagan, a man I respect, but a man who seemed to have an irrational fear of nuclear things, which corrupted his integrity on those matters.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Given that steam turbines normally operate in an enclosed system; the steam venting simply suggests the cooling system is back online. Sorry how geeky did you want it?
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
It's questionable whether they even have any, or ever detonated one, as opposed to a pile of tnt with uranium sprinkled on it.
Our governments would know, but letting them know we know is a separate strategy issue.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
And so it begins, once again. Just as North Korea begins to appear less belligerent and people like Dennis Rodman are talking up Kim as a "cool dude", North Korea turns on a dime and proves it's still Pariah #1 on the world stage. So what will it be this time, Chubs? Last time you threatened to unleash a nuclear holocaust on the You gonna invade Orlando and take Mickey and Goofey hostage? Crash the moon into the White House?
It wasn't a hoax. We detonated 500-someodd devices over a period of decades of testing, in the atmosphere rather than on the ground.
Look, when the Chicxulub asteroid hit and the dinosaurs went extinct, was it because the dinosaurs were all on vacation in southern Mexico and the asteroid landed on their heads? No, of course not; the debris launched into the atmosphere interfered with plant growth, which meant the herbivores starved, which then meant the carnivores starved.
A massive ground (not atmospheric) detonation of the world nuclear stockpile in a matter of days (not decades) would absolutely have a similar effect. It probably wouldn't cause human extinction, but you would certainly see a few billion people starve, and nothing collapses a civilization faster than losing its food supply.
It's only a minute increase, but anything that increases the likelihood of a nuclear war isn't a good thing.
North Korea doesn't have a delivery system or anywhere near enough warheads for MAD, so the worst case scenario is they commit a form of "suicide by cop" by nuking one of the US's allies and get themselves bombed into oblivion by the NATO retaliation (probably doesn't even need to be nuclear retaliation).
That scenario isn't particularly likely, because well... suicide.
Can I assume you are posting from a hideout in Syria? Because if not then get your ass over there and take care of these things you think are so important and stop asking for others to die for what you want.
Because Assad is a dictator, but he's a mostly secular dictator. That is he doesn't much care if his citizens are shite, sunni, alawite or christian.
In other words, he's an equal opportunity dictator.
If he's "done", the most organized members of the rebel forces are the moslem brotherhood and al qaeda. Which means he'll probably be replaced by a islamic fundamentalist government.
So you're suggesting we overthrow a not-so-nice guy with an even worse group of thugs.
Lybia and Eqypt still haven't recovered from Obama's "help".
Shut up you mindless ape!
See one can use ape without being racist, so stop pretending that anyone that uses apes on comparisons is racist.
Also you're discriminating over species: if I call someone an ape I'm a racist jerk, if I call someone a dumb donkey I'm just a jerk. Are you telling me that apes somehow are a totem for racism?
Better not have any kids, then, since overpopulation creates resource strain which in turn drives countries to find excuses to plunder each other, possibly using nuclear weapons.
The announcement comes from an academic institute using commercial satellite data. That seems a little nerdy.
So what. The USA has over 100 reactors running, and have more nuclear weapons than any other country, and is the only country to have used nuclear weapons (on children, women and other civilians) so don't worry about North Korea having a little reactor, worry about USA instead.
Signature intentionally left blank.
Wrong. That's actually a good motivation to cover up fuckups.
Like reporting to your superiors that your reactor is intact and there is no problem even though there are chunks of burning graphite moderator on the ground all around the plant - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_involvement_in_the_Chernobyl_disaster#Dyatlov
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
So you're not only woefully ill-informed, you're a chicken too. Wonderful to know.
The US gov asked n. Korea to start making noise to distract us from Syria.
Silence is a state of mime.
Perhaps not so irrational when he probably anticipated that both the USA and the USSR would lob all 10,000+ weapons at each other in one round. Those 500 devices detonated were of varying sizes and spread out over decades, not thousands upon thousands all detonated within an hour of each other. Consider that a large explosive volcanic eruption (such as Mount St. Helens) - a localized event - can throw enough particulate matter into the atmosphere to cause widespread cooling for several seasons.
Now consider thousands of 10kt to 100mt devices being detonated all over three continents (central North America, northern Asia, and eastern Europe), all vaporizing and shattering all kinds of matter including silicates as well as creating a lot of soot and water vapor. I think in a MAD situation that his nuclear winter hypothesis is fairly plausible. It's fair to point out that only a few 100mt-design devices existed and that most were much smaller, but in 1982 between the USA and the USSR the actively deployed warheads (numbering 23,000 - with a stockpile of about 70,000!!) available for immediate launch was 12,300 megatons - so they averaged about 500kt each. As of today there is still about 25,000 nuclear weapons between the two nations (USA and Russia) plus an indeterminate number from other powers.
As far as North Korea is concerned - it seems they just want to talk without being threatened, and when they see us (the USA) lead by puppets who are bought and paid for by warmongering profiteers, why shouldn't they pursue a nuclear deterrent? Our government is very dangerous and are ignoring the will of the people with all of the sabre-rattling in the Middle East, and innuendos toward NK. Why should they not build weapons to deter what is perceived as imperialism? Besides, without talks, for all we know, NK is just trying to continue to industrialized and become a civilized society and may just be using the power plants which have already been bought and paid for since it makes good financial sense than to throw away a perfectly good generator and wait 5-10 years for new power plants to be completed.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
If he's "done", the most organized members of the rebel forces are the moslem brotherhood and al qaeda. Which means he'll probably be replaced by a islamic fundamentalist government.
It's just not true. Those forces are there, but most people anywhere aren't fanatics, by definition. Being Muslim is not the same as being in al Queda, sympathizing with al Queda or anything else.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/16/opinion/zuka-syria-resistance-leader/index.html
Where is the al Queda take over of Libya? Where is the al Queda take over of Egypt? Even the Muslim brotherhood couldn't hold onto power in Egypt . People hated them and hated their focus on religion and piety and the moves to exclude people based on religion and ethnicity, all at the expense of material prosperity and progress and modernity and , you know, living.
Where is the al Queda take over of Iraq? Given a choice between self determination and the fucking Taliban, people will choose self determination. Sure al Queda and Taliban are harassing forces in Iraq, good at IED detonation mostly. And? And? Where is THAT going? Nowhere.
The optimal point for pressure wave and radiative heat propagation is not on the ground, though. Ground level actually has the effect of pumping more of that energy into the earth where it doesn't do quite as much damage.
Unless they're trying to disable a specific silo or bunker, it's much more useful to release in the air. I forget exactly, but it's on the order of several thousand feet above ground level altitude.
Yeah, not something to look forward to, and it would undoubtedly cause worldwide effects, but I don't think it's on the order of mass starvation outside of the areas of humanity which are already on the brink.
No, there are only 100 commercial reactors and only 93 of them are running right now. http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/reactor-status/ps.html
Estimates etc: Links or it didn't happen.
Even at that, all that means is we need another way to take the regime down. It's called selective elimination. You decapitate the people who make decisions and have the know how and willingness to use the nukes and conventional arms through *whatever means* and the people who are left are just bewildered and incapable of marshaling a fight, even supposing they wanted to.
We;re talking about a dictatorship with no real continuity of power in place. Even if the generals are cynical puppet masters, we can rest assured that the level of competence and know how below them is paper thin. That's how dictatorships are structured to keep the fat cats at the top happy and everyone beneath them who might be a threat in fact *not a danger to them* in any way.
From your POV N Korea is all about making a suicidal war machine out to face down the world at any cost . From THEIR POV, they are worried about the ambitious young men underneath them who show any sign of wanting to move up in the hierarchy through the accumulation of personal capital, competence and influence.
The people with any real power or decision making capability or know how or knowledge form a paper thin facade over an intimidated and largely incompetent inner core. That's how that works. N Korea is a paper tiger with long fangs called nukes that look bad. That's all they have, the ability to look bad. Let me kill or neutralize any 5000 N Koreans I want and I'll topple that shithole with nary a shot fired.
N Korea invasion plan:
Day 1- sudden death of top 5000 scientists and military personnel.
Day 2- Massive air drops of millions of Coke cans, Kit Kat bars and Happy Meals. Blanket the country completely. You know what people are going to do? They're going to run around looking for the next drop and then they're going to sit down and eat it because half the country (or more) is in a state of more or less permanent starvation. Then they're going to be full. Then they're going to hang out thinking, hmmm, maybe we should just see what happens next.... hey! is that another kit kat bar?
Yeah how am I ill informed? Huh? If it was YOU and YOURS would you want a super power to level the murderer? Sure you would. Golden Rule applies. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This is not that hard to think through.
I would think that would have to do with where on the ground it was detonated. Focused detonation into a caldera the size of Yellowstone would definitely destroy the world food supply for billions of people.
I think the concept of nuclear winter has more or less be proven as a fact Not saying Sagan was a competent nuclear strategist , just.. facts are facts.
Easy, just don't lead them so much!
Wait. Are you talking about North Korea, or USA?
Day 0.5 - their holy leader calls for death to the american devils and anyone who allies with them, and unleashes the world's largest standing army from the world's largest cult on the DMZ. Millions will die, the millions that remain will overrun our soldiers when they pause to reload.
If it was YOU and YOURS would you want a super power to level the murderer?
So we should pick a side in the assholes vs dickheads war and kill THEM and THEIRS.
I bet you wonder why our country is so hated by everyone over there.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
If by "end of life as we know it" you mean "another round of them being provocative to get attention and remain in the news" or "more talks of sanctions and deals" then.... yes, life as we know it is going to totally end...and by end, I mean not change one bit.
And by not changing one bit you assume that it is not possible for a North Korean instigated military confrontation, like the ship they torpedoed several years ago, or another missile launch over Japan going awry, could spiral out of control leading to an exchange of nuclear weapons on the Korean peninsula, North Korean nuclear strikes against both Japan and American forces in Japan, the intervention of China to prevent the collapse of North Korea? And if we're lucky, the Chinese intervention doesn't involve nuclear weapons, including a nuclear attack against the US as advocated by high ranking Chinese military officials in recent years? If the nukes start flying between the US and China, would the Chinese government possibly decide to take out the last remnants of the former government of China, the Republic of China, which has only had control of the Chinese province of Taiwan since it effectively lost the Chinese civil war? After all, with Chinas recent moves toward a market economy the mainland could fit in under the Republic of China's government if the Communist government were decapitated. I'm pretty sure that a series of nuclear weapons going off in South Korea, North Korea, Japan, the US, China, and Taiwan could at least alter life as we know if, or "end it" depending on the definition of that. Hey look! Nuclear Winter! Hmm, climate change just got another thing to incorporate into the model. The Russians, what will they be doing at this time? In the late 1960s the Soviet Union approached the US to see if it would acquiesce to a Soviet attack on China to destroy its nuclear program. The US said, "no." If the nukes are flying, would the Chinese send a few Russia's way? Would Russia decide there is no time like now to finish things with China? If China attacks Russia, would Russia only attack China, or would it send a few towards Europe and the US? The Russians have already threatened nuclear attacks against the NATO missile shield against Iran. China and India are already engaged in a military confrontation. Does something happen there? Pakistan and India are bitter enemies, and both are nuclear armed. Pakistan is an ally of China, and playing a double game, both for and against the US in Afghanistan. An enormous web of possibilities. But I suppose a wave of the hand will always do here: this is not the conflict you're looking for, forget all about it, nothing will happen or change. Life as you know it will continue, there is no threat. Not even of plague.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Did anyone expect anything different from this crony?
Yeah that's right , perfect thank you for outing yourself as a racist asshole because the people in refuge camps are assholes.. or dickheads... take your pick. Because people "over there" and anyway not us if they're suffering brought it on themselves.
Oh wait. Except the American taxpayer, especially the Tea Party and the 1% who fund them.... now THOSE people, damn, they're oppressed through no fault of their own.
Kill yourself.
If the US would only talk to NK and the raving maniacs in the middle east the world would magically transform itself into the perfect non-violent civilization. The clock is running out on being able to claim the US is the root of all evil and responsible for every problem in the world. People claim the US is losing influence in the middle east but what they are seeing the US voluntarily disengaging across the board and the next president from any party will continue that policy without pause. Sort of hard to blame the US for something if there is no US presence in the vicinity. The US citizens are already turning their backs on the and downtrodden of the world. who are being killed and gassed by the thousands. If someone discovered a Nazi era concentration camp somewhere in the world I doubt you could get the US public to give a damn and rightly so. If something like that shows up in Kansas the US will deal with it but foreign adventures are just a waste of time, money, and resources. It's taking some time but all the stupid and uninformed US citizens are realizing they have no allies or friends in the international community and start returning the same level of animosity and insults to any country looking for a handout or protection. Right now the best US policy would be to totally ignore the middle east and NK and check back in about 30 years to see how things are going. It would probably be even better if the US unilaterally withdrew from all there military and defense treaty obligations. Let Japan and Taiwan deal with the kind and loving people of China without any guaranteed backup. Let Europe come to grips with the peace loving Russians and let Israel take care of the surrounding countries hostility once and for all. They certainly don't need any help from the US judging by the military incompetence displayed by their enemies. After this adjustment the US can start selling arms to all sides instead of just one and really bring in the big money. It's not like there is any country in the world that would ever help the US in any form or fashion. The only thing any of it's military "allies" have done is hold the coats of the US military and provide inconsequential military assets and token forces so they can justify their own military budgets to there peace loving citizens.
Oh no we're in deep kimchi now!
http://www.businessinsider.com/map-of-the-day-how-north-korea-could-destroy-seoul-in-two-hours-2010-5?op=1
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/pub771.pdf
"The combination of North Korea’s long economic
decline and enhanced U.S. and South Korean military
capabilities has diminished the ability of North
Korea to launch a successful invasion of South Korea.
Nonetheless, the KPA retains the ability to inflict heavy
casualties and collateral damage, largely through
the use of massed long-range artillery. In effect,
Pyongyang’s most credible conventional threat is to
devastate Seoul (and a good portion of South Korea)
rather than to seize and hold it."
NK's army is mostly an aging joke. Big, but obsolete and poorly maintained and supplied. If military action were to begin, the large volume of artillery already aimed at Seoul would kick off in a short-range storm of shells. Given the disrepute given to their condition, many of those pieces will fail, but given the vast number of pieces, it will still amount to a large amount of damage before they can be stopped. Seoul won't be "wiped out", but a lot of civilians will be hurt or killed in that opening hour of conflict. It would be followed by NK being crushed since NK's military is heavily outclassed by both SK and the US presence.
The problem has always been south korean civilians held hostage by those guns. The missiles and nukes aren't a significant threat (right now).
That's a big assumption; they may have just finally got around the electing Best Pope.
Because China totally wouldn't mind us nuking North Korea.
On the other hand, why should we, the American people, continually foot the bill for policing these skirmishes? The UN body has HOW many member states, and what do they do to help? Not a thing. Why should we be the ones to do it? We are tens of trillions in debt due in part to policing the world and it has got to stop. Yes, there is genocide, but where were we one, two, three years ago when Syria was already engaging in these atrocities? Napalm, concussion bombs, swords, and firing squads all this time and it has been a non-issue but now that they're using chemical weapons it's suddenly an issue. Why? I think it's just profiteering on the part of certain sponsors behind the politicians, and not a moral issue at all. Were it a moral issue, we would have already intervened long ago. They're just saying "ZOMG chemical weapons" to try to rally support of The People but we are so fed up with the runaway spending, sending OUR troops to die trying to defend people who are intent upon killing each other, benefiting a handful of companies to the tune of hundreds of billions in profits as we continue to bankrupt not only ourselves but many generations to come, and we have grown wise to it and are saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
Let them kill each other - we cannot be their babysitters. We have our own problems to deal with, and besides, every time we send aid or troops to help resolve these issues we accomplish nothing but earning more enemies, because we politicize these issues and restrain the military rather than let them do their work quickly and efficiently, costing us far more money and then having to engage in reduced freedom and increased security theater due to the terrorist cells which rise in response to our very politicized "police actions."
ENOUGH.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Perhaps, perhaps not. Since the grandparent is (probably) not Japanese, what he wrote is not loaded with the racism inherent in his/her culture. It's analogous to how if Japan does blackface (see Dragon Ball's Mr Popo or Pokemon's Jinx) it's bad but probably not racist.
On the other hand, comparing a particular group people to apes is already seen as deeply offensive in many parts of western culture. Probably shouldn't be so quick to use that comparison with other ethnicities/nationalities.
modded down by mistake, undoing it
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Aluminum-Foil-Hat/
That is all.
LOL, the people in the refugee camps are the ones who FLED. They don't want to be caught standing near either the rebels OR the government.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
North Korea doesn't give a rats ass about Hiroshima and the rest of Japan due to them occupying Korea (before they were split) for a good 40 to 50 years. As for Vietnam, it's hard to tell, but NK does have reasons to have a frosty relationship with them. It's officially still communist, but they do have economic ties with South Korea and Vietnam was considered one of the better routes for NK refugees.
North Korea does not have a modern military.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/03/25/a-photo-that-makes-north-korea-look-a-lot-less-scary/
They don't have enough fuel to launch their mig 29s (see above) and the ability of the average NK soldier or officer to act absent direction is nil. What you're saying is NK has some kind of dead man's switch whereby the body will attack even if the head is off. It's hard to believe that with our ability to fuck with their computers, fuck with their very old "long range artillery" with all our ability to direct force against a conventional army that we can't preemptively take out the creakiest conventional army ever assembled.
Compared to N Korea, what we can do is magic. The only way NK is relevant at all is as a feeder for WMD -which require state level power to create - to sub state actors. That's the issue we should be thinking about.
Honestly if I were POTUS I would baby walk KJU right down the path his mouth will take him until it was clear to everyone he intended to (had to now...) try to made good on his promise to wipe Japan or the US or SK off the map, then hit him preemptively and with zero warning.
That isn't nearly enough.
Why North Koreans Were Kidnappers
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Whoa there! Back to the decaf.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Hey, wait... This is Samsung we're talking about. No more Touch Wiz.
Maybe Dennis Rodman is right.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Slightly off-topic - but did you notice how the number of refugees massively increased when the US/UK announced their intention to get involved?
As for your Golden Rule - No - I wouldn't want them involved as it basically doubles the chance of me and mine and everyone else getting killed. Doesn't matter who does the killing - it always increases when we become involved.
Yeah, not something to look forward to, and it would undoubtedly cause worldwide effects, but I don't think it's on the order of mass starvation outside of the areas of humanity which are already on the brink.
For billions to die from starvation isn't even going to require a 'nuclear winter' scenario. A single, near worldwide season of crop failures would put vast numbers of people at risk. Coupled with the inevitable fallout (so to speak) of a nuclear war, the disruption of supply lines and infrastructure would be the icing on the cake (bad choice of words, I suppose).
The veneer of civilization is thin.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Depending, of course, of your definition of 'more or less'.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.
What happened?
Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
We're sending a squad up.
Uh, uh... negative, negative. We had a reactor leak here now. Give us a few minutes to lock it down. Large leak, very dangerous.
Who is this? What's your operating number?
Han Solo: Uh...
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
They do have a delivery system, two, actually. The first is their ICBM program, that, while shaky, could be operational in the next couple of years. They might even have enough done, at this point, to be able to reach Hawaii, though that's doubtful.
The second is much more nefarious and more difficult to protect against, and that's a shipping container, on its way into port, before its been scanned for NBC agents by US Customs. While they likely haven't been able to miniaturize a warhead and get a fully tested and operational ICBM into production, the latter delivery choice is pretty damn simple.
Except for explaining why anyone in the U.S. would be receiving a shipping container from NK in the first place. They aren't exactly a most favored nation.
So they'd have to somehow get that container smuggled onto a ship from another nation.
Meanwhile, even their batshit insane leader would have to realize that the best possible outcome for him would be getting dragged out of a bunker in his boxers just long enough for his own people to kill him and that no country in the world would voice an objection.
I don't disagree on either point, just stating that if they really wanted to get something here, it's conceivable that they could.
NK becomes a slightly worse hellhole?
As far as North Korea is concerned - it seems they just want to talk without being threatened
That's the most generous description of North Korea I've ever seen in English. Remember we're talking about a regime who executes people by running over them with tanks in front of their entire regiment, led by a man who had his ex-girlfriend executed.
I'm absolutely opposed to invading North Korea, but it's important to remember they are not some poor, misunderstood nice guys.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
There is this pile of Tomahawk missiles getting dramatically close to the expiration date.
You know, from the good ol' time of Irak war.
Obama is just looking for a way to dispose them, you have to understand the guy. Syria was a no-go, so why not NK...
Yeah what you said isn't true. People in refugee camps aren't neutral victims of a war they don't take sides in and don't care who wins. Just the opposite. They want Assad out of there too.
When the reactor is operating it is making steam that has to go somewhere. If they rebuilt the boiler they are venting the steam to clean out the lines. When the coal fired plant near me was nearing completion they blasted steam from a large vent pipe for hours. I live five miles away and it sounded like jet fighter taking off. Several bolts, nuts, and even a wrench was found in the vent's strainer.
It's always worth remembering that North Korea's leadership has a special kind of evil ruthless madness to it that has resulted in them painting themselves into a corner, and China has been willing to give them security guarantees. It is sort of like an excerpt from the plans for World War 1.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Let me guess, you're a holocaust and climate change denialist too. Same hyper-selective use of facts to "prove" your point, while pretending the huge number of facts you excluded don't completely destroy your argument.
Point of fact, a nuclear war in Sagans era wouldn't have been about cooking off 500 devices over two decades or so, it would have been about slinging 50,000 devices over a day or two.
It's really maddening, because it's not possible to know if you're trolling or you really believe your steaming pile of shit.
It is, sure. Humans are very inventive and if they really want to solve that problem, they probably can.
However they can't fake the source of the bomb, and they can't deliver enough to preclude a response, and it is doubtful that China really wants WWIII so, its unlikely the Chineese alliance really extends to protecting them in the event of their own nuclear provocation of the US, or anywhere else for that matter.
Lots of things could happen, I could go down to the airport with my sword and start registering my displeasure at the TSA directly. Among the many reasons I will not be going to Logan airport tomorrow at noon to deliver death to the infidels (NSA: Made you look. Why are you reading this and not leaking documents?) is that it would be a suicide attack and I am not into glorious death for myself.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Assuming that you think China's garauntees are rock solid sure. However, I suspect they are more to prevent war and thumb their nose at the US than a real desire to defend the DPRK.
Frankly, I think if it really comes down to them crossing too many lines and war is looking inevitable, China will find a reason to ditch their annoying little buddy.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
It's possible that they will ditch North Korea. Within the last few years China has made them aware of their displeasure.
On the other hand, China sent large numbers of combat troops that fought against the US and UN forces during the Korean War. The new Chinese leader appears to be a hard liner that wants to pull back from the liberalization of the last few decades and return to traditional Communist ways. North Korea never left those ways.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
From CNN. People who CARE about other people are enraged. Everyone else is waiting for the next Breaking Bad episode (as am I)
"How many more times do we have to say that weapons of mass destruction were used?" she said. "And as bad as it is to decapitate somebody, it is by no means equal. We can't use this false moral equivalence about what's going on right now. They tried to do it in the Second World War. They tried to do it in Bosnia. They tried to do it in Rwanda and they're trying to do it now. There is no moral equivalence."
As her panelists tried to interject, Amanpour snapped, "Wait just a second!" Once she had the floor, she continued, "The president of the United States and the most moral country in the world based on the most moral principles in the world, at least that's the fundamental principle that the United States rests on, cannot allow this to go unchecked, cannot allow this to go unchecked...I'm so emotional about this."
Later, Amanpour tweeted that she was trying to recall "America's proud history" of liberal interventionism: