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FISA Court Will Release More Opinions Because of Snowden
cold fjord sends this news from the Washington Post:
"Call it the Edward Snowden effect: Citing the former NSA contractor, a federal judge has ordered the government to declassify more reports from the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. In an opinion from the FISC itself, Judge F. Dennis Saylor on Friday told the White House to declassify all the legal opinions relating to Section 215 of the Patriot Act written after May 2011 that aren't already the subject of FOIA litigation. The court ruled (PDF) that the White House must identify the opinions in question by Oct. 4. 'The unauthorized disclosure of in June 2013 of a Section 215 order, and government statements in response to that disclosure, have engendered considerable public interest and debate about Section 215,' wrote Saylor. 'Publication of FISC opinions relating to this opinion would contribute to an informed debate.' The ruling comes in response to a petition by the American Civil Liberties Union seeking greater government transparency. But because the ACLU already has a similar FOIA case pending in another court, Saylor wrote that the new FISC order can only cover documents that don't relate to that case."
Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said that Snowden's information leaks started conversations that should have happened a long time ago. Also, the privacy reform panel created by President Obama met for the first time earlier this week. It did not discuss the NSA's surveillance activities. [Two attendees of the Monday meeting said the discussion was dominated by the interests of major technology firms, and the session did not address making any substantive changes to the controversial mass collection of Americans' phone data and foreigners' internet communications, which can include conversations with Americans."
'nuff said.
Set the interwebs free!!
Thank you for your service.
or other comments about the data sets been too big or not for domestic use are now history.
Snowden has moved the crypto debate into the 21C and lets hope the next generation of students and professors learn something about trusting their codes and the hardware 'offered'.
Skilled US legal teams will start talking with academics and law makers. Overtime more will become clear and the rest of the world can start thinking about the products they import or who they trust data to.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
The NSA has just released a document that contained nothing but "first post". How curious, what could it mean?
The NSA just released a document containing only the words "fristy pisty". What could it possibly mean?
>" 'The unauthorized disclosure of in June 2013 of a Section 215 order, and government statements in response to that disclosure, have engendered considerable public interest and debate about Section 215,' "
Well, yeah, amazing isn't it? That is the way a democracy is SUPPOSED to work. It DOESN'T work properly when tons of things are all held in secret.
I suspect that at least half what is currently kept secret from the public is unnecessarily secret. And probably much more than half of what is left could at least be shared with Congress committees.
having these conversations (referring to Clapper) when he was the one actively LYING about the extent of activities under his jurisdiction.
So: We should be having these conversations, but I actively lied about it to avoid having these conversations.
My general experience is when people are lying about things in response to very direct questions, they're usually doing it to hide activities that they know they shouldn't be doing.
General Alexander's games only work because he can tell one story to one group of people, and another story to another.
The 5 eye allies get to see intelligence from abroad and don't see the surveillance of their own people, their companies and their politicians, and so think they are 'special', not spied up, protected and private, even as they spy on their own people for the NSA.
The FISA court was told stories about how NSA was using its warrants and how essential those warrants were. I suspect FISC never authorized storage of everything. Rather it probably authorized collection of everything, filtering out just the terrorist related and storing of that. But once General Alexander had access to all the data, he didn't need to throw it away, because FISC would never know he kept it and who is powerful enough to stop him?
Dianne Feinstein, seems to have been told all manner of court orders are needed and the data has never been abused (she said it as though she believed it). Perhaps she was shown snippets of terrorist info, and the occasional tip about her political rivals, but never shown her own record, or all the abuse of data stories, or the surveillance of ordinary Americans for reasons other than terrorism.
Obama was told all sorts of warrants are needed, and kept talking about telephone calls, as if that was the limit of the surveillance. To tap a US telephone, its done by computer request, and apparently a very large portion of US calls are routinely recorded without a warrant. They only need a warrant if they decide they need a warrant after listening and concluding both parties are American. But who would know if they didn't flag it? No one. General Alexander says only 300 selectors in 2012 were searched, yet the NSA 'auditor' says 20 million searches a month against the big database.
David Cameron was probably told only the terrorist data is filtered out of the UK feed and then the rest thrown away. But it isn't, it's kept and handed to Israel on presumably others. Used for commercial and political surveillance, there's no special relationship with 5 eyes, only 4 idiots deluding themselves and betraying their countries.
DEA thinks it's given hot tips in secret, which is why it needs to cover up the source, in reality it could well be party to falsify a crime, or covering an entrapment, or coercion. Who knows!? Because the evidence is never examined, instead a false cover story is examined in court.
Each party thinks THEY are not being spied on and only get to see OTHER people's data. General Alexander plays a very compartmentalized game to keep it so. As the FISC court saw the leaks, so it see that the FISA warrants don't correspond to the reality and want them released.
If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide. But 'wrong' in the free world is supposed to mean 'illegal' not 'upset someone powerful'. The courts are there to protect people and if they did that, and the NSA ignored the court and did its own thing, then its time we knew. FISC court is happy to let people see what it authorized, so let see how the reality and the warrants correspond.
Obama is hardly going to pardon someone that outed his own criminal behaviour.
But what should be happening is a special prosecutor. Snowden would be easy to get back in the country, just give him immunity. I am sure he would be happy to come back and testify in a real court about the crimes he has knowledge of.
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After the Snowden revelations about security standards subversion I've been casting fresh eyes over the state of OSS security - parts are truly dismal. It may or may not actually be related to the NSA, that's immaterial really, but things are waaaay overcomplicated and flawed. For example, standard "wisdom" on OpenLDAP configuration is to never verify client side certificates, and I haven't seen anyone suggest specifying a olcTLSDHParamFile (which is required for perfect forward security). The whole idea of negotiating both encrypted and non-encrypted connections over one port is flawed - not only can a small configuration error cause all traffic to be suddenly in the clear, but a misconfigured client will send passwords in the clear no matter how locked down the server end is (although of course they won't connect successfully). OSS needs to get back to the Unix philosophy of keeping things simple... but it's in large players interests (be they big businesses or NSA or ???) to keep things so complicated the weekend hacker can no longer stay secure let alone make a useful contribution.
Two attendees of the Monday meeting said the discussion was dominated by the interests of major technology firms
Fancy that.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
FISA Court Will Release More Opinions Because of Snowden?
Nope. Any releases will be made as part of the administration's drive to increase transparency while retaining the tools needed to protect against the terrorists. It's not coming because of public pressure or legal challenges. No siree, not like last time:
https://www.eff.org/mention/obama-administration-dishonestly-wants-public-believe-it-voluntarily-declassified-secret-nsa
This time they'll be truthy. We can be certain of course that this information would have been released even if Snowden hadn't kicked-off this shit-storm. After all, isn't this the most transparent administration, with unprecedented levels of openness? Must be true - it says it on the White House site:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/TransparencyandOpenGovernment
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Edward Snowden is like Santa Claus! He know whether you've been good or bad, and the presents just keep coming like clockwork!
The problem is that the government has no credibility. How do we know what they release are the real documents? And they can still [redact] it to the point of uselessness.
"The NSA provides a valuable service to this country and should not be limited by red tape." That 'red tape' is called the Constitution.
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Yeah Mr Wild wild west lawlessness is speaking ! .. Why even bother to make a trial , give guns to everyone that wishes to participate and make it a hunt with the open objective of assasinating Snowden .. Way fucking idiotic .
No red tape ? .Respect by any agency of the US constitution is mandatory.It's not a f(*@(#* option. It's the Law and it's written in ink and it's the base of this country.
If they work outside and against the constitution then they are traitors to the People and should be themselves be accused of high treason prosecuted , jailed and if necessary executed like any other criminals .
Snowden is a hero to/of the People. Washington is where the real traitors are. In offices sitting in plush seats smoking cigars and eating breakfast at Tiffany's instead of working for us Citizens .
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Aside from an overzealous use of commas it seems pretty clear that the US Gov can't just scoop up everything, or require the Telecoms to retain records so that they can see them later. First the data gets used because we have an immediate terrorist threat. Next week its use will be justified for other purposes in the same way that the Patriot Act has been abused.
After Snowden's in prison, do the same to those whom have aided and abetted the release of such information - including those at the Washington Post(if the NSA does its job right, that newspaper should have wished that it had done the right thing by not publishing national secrets).
Given the evidence that he not only broke his trust to keep secrets, he also did so in a manner that harms this country entirely. If there should be any pardons and praise, they are to be reserved for anyone who may be prosecuted in bringing Snowden to justice. In addition, reward and protect them from any retaliation that may occur from any Snowden fanatics.
Of course, this won't all go well with those that worship Snowden as some idol and not rightfully consider him as a betrayer of one's country. However, I do not recognize any value in destroying the country or ensuring that it cannot protect itself from threats within and without.
Harmed the country or harmed the Administration? Which is the greater harm: revealing to our enemies that they are being spied on or hiding from every American that they are being spied on?
Finally! Someone who gets it.
Of course, this won't all go well with those that worship Snowden as some idol and not rightfully consider him as a betrayer of one's country. However, I do not recognize any value in destroying the country or ensuring that it cannot protect itself from threats within and without.
Couldn't agree more. I found out that my brother had been raping his own daughter, and I did not recognise any value in destroying the family or ensuring that it cannot protect itself from threats within and without. My cousin wanted to get the cops in, so we threatened her to keep her quiet. The relative (unnamed for obvious reasons) has promised to stop raping his kid, and the family avoids the scandal and serious financial loss that'd come from him being convicted.
You know what's frustrating? The journalists at the post probably broke now laws, but we know they should be arrested for something. Just like my cousin - the whistleblower who risked ruining my entire family for the sake of one girl who's probably not going to be raped much anymore. How will we have an America to hand to our children if we don't allow the government what it needs to protect itself and us? If my niece could stop crying for a minute I know she'd agree.
However, I do not recognize any value in destroying the country or ensuring that it cannot protect itself from threats within and without.
"Threats within" meaning its citizens which are apparently not part of the country any more. And how are the citizens supposed to protect themselves from the real threat within, namely a fascist totalitarian surveillance government, if they are not supposed to know about it?
When has the U.S. ceased to be a democracy? When has it been taken out of the hands of its citizens and handed over to a secretly acting ruling class? When has it become the country of blockwarts that you don't want to see "destroyed"? What's in it for you? Can you tell on your neighbors? Do you have access to their files or phonecalls? Are you being paid to write those articles?
The U.S. has become a country where one can't rule out any of those possibilities, and you want it to stay that way and consider it a betrayal of the country if people work against it even after the democratic means to do anything about it have been sabotaged and/or removed.
The Constitution isn't a handwave for Snowden's practices either. It doesn't magically make the argument any better (or worse) by invoking it.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
You are a pathetic sheep retard shill. I think you enjoy licking boots you fucking coward piece of shit. You'd have helped Benedict Arnold you statist slave cunt.
NSAKEY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY
The problem is the spooks from every government trying to subvert security and encryption processes.
When has the U.S. ceased to be a democracy?
When it decided to be a constitutional republic.
The specific knowledge disclosed by Snowden was knowledge that was not necessary for the public to know, no matter what it was.
On the other hand, once Snowden starts speaking about who helped him and how, as a result of the US interrogating him, that should be public knowledge.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Methinks thou art sarcastic, what with the libertarian .sig and all.
We get it. You're being paid off. Give it a rest already.
How do we know that the court will release any opinion that matters? They can still be kept a secret. Companies are not allowed to share their NSLs. How do we know that the court is not under a gag order?
Somehow you don't think our foreign enemies (and non-enemies) had no idea they might be a target for espionage? You're not too bright if you think the former is a greater harm to this country than a violation of its constitution.
Unfortunately for you, the information will stop and your idol (and his helpers) will be put in his rightful place - a supermax prison in Colorado for a good chunk of his life.
How is your job at the NSA working out Seth?
Be seeing you...
Christ, I hope this is sarcastic. Hard to tell, being the internet and all.
When has the U.S. ceased to be a democracy?
When it decided to be a constitutional republic.
Well, for one thing the government is wiping its ass with the constitution, so that does not seem to account for much. And a "republic" is supposed to represent the public, but how do you represent somebody who does not know what's cooking?
You disgust me. I don't think you belong in a country that is said to be the land of the free and the home of the brave; you're a coward.
Exactly. The 4th amendment was put into the constitution specifically to outlaw what was called a general warrant. This happened when someone connected to any authority had it in for you. They would get a general warrant, it allowed them to search you, your house, place of employment, or anything any time they wanted in hopes of catching you doing something wrong so that charges could be brought against you.
This kind of data collection and retention is specifically the kind of actions the amendment was designed to make impossible.
The specific knowledge disclosed by Snowden was knowledge that was not necessary for the public to know, no matter what it was.
Really? No matter what it was? What if they were kidnapping children and harvesting their organs? (An absurdist example to demonstrate a point)
It's certainly a very interesting position you take, that is to say an authoritarian and amoral one. I'd say it was his moral duty as a human being, which is the only authority anyone should ever need.
Couldn't agree more. I found out that my brother had been raping his own daughter, and I did not recognise any value in destroying the family or ensuring that it cannot protect itself from threats within and without. My cousin wanted to get the cops in, so we threatened her to keep her quiet. The relative (unnamed for obvious reasons) has promised to stop raping his kid, and the family avoids the scandal and serious financial loss that'd come from him being convicted.
There's a legal term for that - "aiding and abetting". Fucking coward - it's not like your family couldn't have collectively supported the rapist's family until they could fend for themselves.
I'll just leave this here:
Clue: He was a better American than you'll ever be.
Well, for one thing the government is wiping its ass with the constitution, so that does not seem to account for much.
As far as things are now, they aren't.
And a "republic" is supposed to represent the public, but how do you represent somebody who does not know what's cooking?
You might know the final product and the ingredients, but the exact recipe remains a secret. This would be much like revealing every recipe one could get their hands on for hating the cook.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
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I hope those modpoints were worth it.
There's enough evidence to convict him and keep him from being pardoned.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
that it cannot protect itself from threats within
You have a very naive view about what constitutes a "threat within". Please, be a little more thoughtful.
"If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide."
That only works if you know what's wrong, and I'm not talking about obvious wrongs like killing people or stealing candy from a baby. With the mountain of laws that are in the books, the only way not to be a criminal is to stay at home and stop communicating with the outside world (no jaywalking, no libel, no copyright infringement). Assuming you can survive on the food you've hoarded, even that might not work. Who knows what health, tax or community laws you're violating just sitting in your basement?
There is a strange Snowden page - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sweet-Snowden/165352220337306
by Anonymous Coward:
You disgust me. I don't think you belong in a country that is said to be the land of the free and the home of the brave; you're a coward.
How interesting that you're calling me out with a greater amount of anonymity versus my own. At least I'm willing to put my "name" to my opinion regarding the misdeeds of Snowden and their implications throughout the world.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Really? No matter what it was? What if they were kidnapping children and harvesting their organs?
Indirect evidence would show up, much like it has prior to Snowden's actions.
It's certainly a very interesting position you take, that is to say an authoritarian and amoral one.
It is a position that maintains the idea that the US does not submit to the world.
I'd say it was his moral duty as a human being, which is the only authority anyone should ever need.
However, he cannot escape the consequences of putting his own judgment in front of others.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
When one throws away their career, consorts with the enemy, and provides them aid through unauthorized disclosures of information - they lost any ability to be measured as an American.
If you want to find the "better American", it'll be those involved in the capture, prosecution, and conviction of Snowden.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I am not the only person living in another country who is taking strong and active steps to route around America for anything important. My servers have already been moved to the Netherlands and further changes will happen soon.
America has lost a huge amount of face in this debacle.
I think I can say this with quite a bit of certainty: The rest of the world want's your NSA to butt the hell out of our data.
Thank you, O Great Arbiter of All That is American!
If the cook were putting poison in the dish, then damn right I'd be angry.
It's a position that maintains that the US doesn't submit to its citizenry.
N/T
The Supreme Court ruled in New York Times Co. v. United States (403 U.S. 713) that:
Statesman Thomas Jefferson, General George Washington, Adviser to The Queen, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Pattrick Henry, and John Hancock were betrayers of the their own country. They organized and rebelled against the good and just thrown of the England, throwing away their citizenship and becoming traitors to the Crown....
Sometimes, you need to break a few eggs to make an omlette, and if that omlete is an out dated and opressive government, there is no reason to morn the loss. Remember, "all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their creator with certian unalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To secure these rights governments are insitituted among men deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. When governments become destructive to that end it is the is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and establish new government."
That is to say, we the people now largely believe the government doesn't use just powers, but abuses that power at the expense of the masses. We have not consented to this illegal program the NSA is running. They are violating our unalienable rights, which are supposed to exist to protect. The time is coming that we will alter or abolishing this government in favor of system that protects our rights (be that through the current system, or through revolution remains to be seen).
What do care if he "throws away his career?" You his mother?
The US people, and journalists are enemies now? There is no claims he gave any documents to any nations or organizations that are current enemies of the US government.
Keep in mind Terrorism kills less people world wide than die of car accidents in the US. You are more likely to die by lightening strike than die of terrorist attack.
It was known, in the FISA Amendment, that we were doing domestic to foreign and foreign to domestic wire tapping. The enemies, whoever you believe them to be, already knew that, too. What we didn't know is that private citizens under no suspicion of any crimes are not "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures". The government has broken the law, and needs to be held accountable.
Willfully gave it up, to make the world a better place.
Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, George Washington, John Hancock, and Patrick Henry were traitors to the crown; now we realize they were heros... flawed men all, but still heros. Snowden, Greenwald, Manning, etc. are putting life and limb on the line for your freedoms, even if you are too dumb to realize it.
If the cook started using rat poisin in some dishes, but didn't tell us which... I'd want to inspect the whole kitchen to make sure it was clean.
Or even "We the people" whom make it up? The governed whose consent they derive their just powers doesn't deserve to know when the government meant to secure their rights begins acting like a peeping tom?
Be careful when calling broad swaths of people terrorists. Once so labelled, they might decide that they don't really have anything to lose anymore. This may have very different consequences, but one potential outcome would involve widespread lynching of NSA stooges.