Slashdot Mirror
Russian Government Takes Over Country's 289-year Old Scientific Academy
ananyo writes "Russia's lower house of parliament, the State Duma, approved controversial reforms to the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS) on 18 September. More than 330 members of the Duma voted in favor of the law, with only 107 against, in a move critics say will deprive the 289-year-old body of its independence and halt attempts to revitalize Russia's struggling science system. If, as is widely expected, the parliament's upper house and Russian President Vladimir Putin approve the law, the 436 institutes and 45,000 research staff of Russia's primary basic-research organization will be managed by a newly established federal agency that reports directly to Putin. The agency will manage the academy's 60-billion-rouble (US$1.9-billion) budget and extensive property portfolio, which includes lucrative sites in Moscow and St Petersburg, and will also have a say in the appointment of institute directors. 'This is not a reform — this is a liquidation of science in Russia,' says Alexander Kuleshov, director of the academy's Institute for Information Transmission Problems in Moscow."
My big take-home from this article is they have an "Institute for Information Transmission Problems" - a whole Institute just devoted to resolving poor communication.
They really got their message out!
in his quest to turn Russia into a theocracy.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
There's no Cyrillic 'o' in the Russian word; why would it come out "rouble" in the transliteration?
Our thoughts are with those folks, this just really sucks...cause it begs the question, how do you turn this around and there's no nice answer to that. Deeper into the dark Putin takes the country.
"NYET! We will no longer allow science to tell us what the laws that govern the universe are! Starting today, it is the law that will govern science!!"
Life, ultimately, boils down to the Four Fs: Fighting, Fleeing, Feeding, and Mating.
Well, this should prevent any resurgence of Lysenkoism or other such quackery. This puts Russian science in the forefront of government revitalization of science right along with the forward thinkers in the Canadian government.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
New scientific reports from Russia of what homosexuality is bad.
CAPTCHA: targets
They probably noticed that scientists can do things like prove that Russian elections are rigged.
Reminds me of what's-his-name occupying the White House
George Bush
Harper has been muzzling Canadian scientists for a long time, cutting their budgets, axing research, and so on.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Bill Clinton
Don't you know? Putin is famous for his amazingly prescient scientific writings, just like his predecessors, comrades Lenin and Stalin. I can hardly wait how Puting trumps Lenin's work on the inexhaustibility of the electron. For the workers!
Ezekiel 23:20
No, I think OP means the other warmongering surveillance-state authoritarian. You know, the guy currently squatting in the otherwise distinguished building.
I'm a bit puzzled, but isn't that how science is effectively funded in western countries. Not having read the source article I suspect what is happening in Russian is different in tone. Why conflate with health care?
Incidentally, I'm from a country with single payer health care have the same concerns as any vigilant and responsible citizen. No system can be perfect, so it's monitored and debated. So, what's your implicit point?
[I could be wrong but based on your comments I conclude you're a simpleton. Simultaneously, I can also imagine that you're not alone. Though this discussion is about science, those like you cannot separate their "religious" positions from reality.]
Wall Street Journal
The article states that he's 61 years old, so this is more or less "president for life". If he lasts another 10 years he'll just do it again, or not even bother to hold an election.
Russia's slide will continue if this happens. Of course the US has a similar problem with entrenched elites wrecking the economy for their own personal gain.
Why is Snark Required?
The TFA seems to imply the RAS has been wholly independent for 289 years, which is obviously not the case... It was founded by the tsar who I'd imagine had some sway.
That and oh... it lived through the soviet union, which certainly had control.
Sent from my PDP-11
The problem isn't who pays, it's who calls the shots.
But, since you were either incapable of that basic bit of reading comprehension or chose to intentionally attempt to make this a politics issue, nothing you say is worth paying attention to anyhow.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
This is truly a shame. Back during the Cold War the question was often posed, is Russia the most backward advanced country in the world, or the most advanced backward country in the world. However, despite being cursed with horrid systems of government and an inability to make washing machines, anybody who knew anything admired their accomplishments in science and math. Now Putty Poot wants to kill that? He's a traitor.
Putin hold PhD in economics. Someone wrote it for him, it was a simple Russian translation of western article. (don't worry, he's dead. most likely killed himself). So, after that surfaced Putin fills like his scientific superiority is in danger. And he doesn't like or trust other scientists. Hence the strong wish to control and humiliate them all. I expect someone from his close circle to become the "main" scientist in Russia.
BTW, Chechen leader Kadyrov holds PhD too. Another genius ;)
In Soviet Russia... this academy had more freedom than it does now.
Wow.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
I believe his point was that there those who argue that governments should have bigger stakes in certain endeavors like NASA in the US, but everyone here seems to be lamenting that this is the end of science because the state is taking full control of this program - which being russia I'm assuming was fully government funded before anyway, just more autonomous from direction by the duma.
"He who has the gold, makes the rules."
And try to laugh more.
Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
60-billion-rouble (US$1.9-billion) budget and extensive property portfolio, which includes lucrative sites in Moscow and St Petersburg
So it is not about the quality or independence of science. It is about who will be collecting, hmm what's the word ... "royalties"?.... on the management of the budget and the properties.
Russia is quickly going back to the days of Stalin. Bit by bit the dictatorship is being reformed and soon they will pass the tipping point where anything can be done to stop it. If I was Russian, I would be very afraid.
Really biased summary and somewhat biased article. RAS is simply afraid of losing their luxurous "recreational complexes" - private villas of said academicians and "research institutes", which are mostly just "cheap offices for rent" right now. Our science is going down the drain for the last... 30-40 years, or even more, and all these old soviet-era "academicians" are much more old-school bureaucrats than scientists. Truly clever and talented people all left Russia in 90-s, leaving mostly conservative old-timers and not-so-bright yesterday students. One of the vice-presidents of RAS is known to support some absolutely fraudulent projects, like "Petrik's water filters" - and these people are saying something about liquidation of science?
I am not a supporter of Putin and his little auto-/pluto-cratic system of government, but this reform is something long-needed, almost essential for our science. With the 40-50 years old mindset you cannot innovate, you cannot truly create something new, perform some cutting-edge experiments and achieve true breakthroughs. Only with adaptation of new policies, with adequate pay and real prospects of work for the young scientists we can hope to see our science pull itself out of its current horrible state. And this time, as preposterous as it sounds, Putin is on the side of progress. Of course there is no clearly defined "good guy" in this whole situation, but RAS in its modern form is much worse than almost anything that can replace it.
Absence of proof != proof of absence.
Ronald Reagan.
Man convinced us he killed communism.
He didn't.
we take over you!
Most would say the Russian Mafia. Putin is their Ronald Reagan professional actor-leader. But there are no Italians in Russia, so who are these Mafia people? Well, they are the "businessmen" of course. That's businessmen, with big scary quotes. Not really the greatest fans of scientists, unless they can build them a cool looking yacht.
Snowden should be happy as the funding (success) rates are much better in Russia than the US. LOL at you for dragging Snowden into a science argument. Take a break from FOX "news."
I believe his point was that there those who argue that governments should have bigger stakes in certain endeavors like NASA in the US, but everyone here seems to be lamenting that this is the end of science because the state is taking full control of this program - which being russia I'm assuming was fully government funded before anyway, just more autonomous from direction by the duma.
The Russian Academy of Sciences has had moderate autonomy in terms of spending. They've never been funded to a level commensurate with perceived need (sound familiar?) but they had quite a bit of leeway in terms of funding individual projects. That has never been completely true, of course - the military has often worked through the Academy on projects they're interested in (and funded). The Politburo has had significant input into how various fields are funded. What appears to be the issue is that the Institute Directors will be potentially political appointees, responsible to His Glorious Putiness. We may be seeing many more studies on wrestling and tigers.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Think of it as an institute for communications studies.
They are one and the same. Who pays the piper, calls the tune.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
In practice, Replace gold with USD!
TFA quotes:
This is not a reform — this is a liquidation of science in Russia
Wasn't that supposed to have been done during the Boris Yeltsin era?
You being targeted for a Soviet style mass destruction. All those pesky scientists saying having an environment is good be will silenced!
It seems possible that government funding is as responsive to the private sector and there will be more money available to researchers when they can more easily accept corporate donations. That is just my 2 ruble opinion.
15TW = 15,000 Nuclear Reactors. (Approx. one accident a month.)
Is this whole damn planet just gonna get stupid now? This is not at all what they showed us in Star Trek. Damn, 40 years ago we are putting people on the moon, now it's just global navel gazing from here on out. Yeee haaawww.
Fuck, we are screwed.
It probably needs a reform, but that doesn't means it needs this reform. Dictators are good at giving good reasons for their power grab, and then totally ignoring the good reasons.
It's just implemented by defunding government funded science and making sure that honest scientists can't report results without being fired. Same result - feedback from reality is suppressed in favor of short term economic and political gains.
Pope Urban VIII is now beaming in heaven, being vindicated. Politics and religion has emerged victorious over truth.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
He tore down the Berlin Wall. He caused the USSR to cease to exist. And he caused Eastern Europe to become liberated from the Russians who had been occupying them.
Harper gets elected in 2006, and some of the first things they do are too weaken mortgage rules, try to introduce 30 year amortizations, and yet he gets credit because the financial system the Liberals developed didn't implode in 2008.
Makes total sense.
So the Russians are doing what the US did under George W. Bush, and what Canada has been doing for at least the last 7 years. Basic research takes a severe hit. If whatever you are working on doesn't have a business plan which within 5 years if it doesn't make a profit, gets instantly killed. If you are doing research on fish and pollution, its hard to make a profit on that (for example). That Putin doesn't want people who think logically not towing the official line is a big a threat to his ego as it was to George dubya and is to Steven Harper and other right wingers who think only in profit and loss and don't get 'science'.
After he separates them from their liquidateable assets, do you suppose he'll let the R.O.C. start officially deciding what it and isn't science?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Finally, the voice of reason.
The System WAS broken before the reform, and you would be hard-pressed to make it worse.
"NYET! We will no longer allow science to tell us what the laws that govern the universe are! Starting today, it is the law that will govern science!!"
Putin stole his ideas on how to control scientists from Stephen Harper! Canada first in the science of the scientific control of information coming out of scientists. Hell too bad we didn't patent it. Could sell like hot cakes when the Republicans resume control of the White House with their tighty whities in a few years. LOL
This message was not sent from an iPhone because Peter Sellers really was a deviated prevert without a dime for the call
I'm not saying that everything you wrote is false, but even if every single word of it was true, it still doesn't make the reform good. There's certainly corruption in the Academy, but there's also still plenty of real science being done. With control transferred fully to government bureaucrats, corruption is only bound to increase, and everything immaterial to the goal of enrichment through fraud will be promptly get rid of. What's even worse is that the Church is also raising its head and demanding a say in education and other spheres of life run by the state, and, so far, they have been mostly getting what they want... and now that the state controls scientific institutes directly, I would not put it past them to start stalling or even outright suppressing the lines of research that are contrary to Orthodox doctrine or the prevailing beliefs - evolutionary biology, say, or human cloning.
So, yes, this will spell the death knell of science in long term, unless a great many other things change.
The first item on their list should be to decree the exact value of pi to equal 3.14
Imagine if the US were to reinvigorate its sciences. Double the current research budget - drop in the box if they passed a tax measure - invest in their trained talent, and pick up some Russians too. Some country would be smart to pick them up before they jump ship to other professions.
i don't know karate, but i know ca-razy
Don't be ridiculous! That would only make it difficult for the mathematically-challenged! It should be rounded up to 3.2, as has been proposed before by logical Americans who understand that natural law cannot be allowed to supersede the legal sensibilities of wrong-headed yammerheads!
Life, ultimately, boils down to the Four Fs: Fighting, Fleeing, Feeding, and Mating.
Erich Fellgiebel was in his 50s when he ran the German government's R&D programs as General der Nachrichtentruppe (Signal Corps/Military Intelligence). Under his watch they developed the A4 missile (which is the basis of all liquid-fueled spaceflight to the present day), the jet engine, TV-guided smartbombs and quite a few more things. Allegedly they also invented the semiconductor diode.
So maybe you general statement of "people in the 40s to 50s don't innovate" is not true in its totality.
As a second point, I am reaching age 40 and just now I do think I can deliver solid results as a software engineer/computer scientist. Between age 25 and age 35 I essentially self-trained myself out of novice mistakes. And I see almost exactly the same behaviour in people who are 25 to 30 with a similar education.
If you really think Putin is a dumb man, think again. He rescued Russia from a tailspin that would have destroyed it entirely as a state.
Plus, when was that Academy of Science "independent", given that they are paid by the state and given the iron fist control of everything from 1925 to 1990 by the Communist Party and their secret police ?
Just now western fighters reach the same class of sophistication as the Mig-31 Radar of the 1980s. The S-400 missile system is probably the best SAM in existence.
Russia has incredible human and intellectual reserves and they have capable officers, secret police and otherwise. Putin can't just play the tough-leather-jacket-guy.
You and I know too little to properly assess this decision. Applying some crude Ayn-Rand meme doesn't enlighten anybody.
The question is why: what is the benefit of making an academic institution run directly by government bureaucrats? What is the intended purpose? I guess that we will see in the next few years.
The first reason behind this "reform" is to steal and sell Academy's real property, the only Soviet legacy which has not been stolen until now. The scheme is traditional to Putins' friends:
1. Pour state money into property, paying for its repair, landscape development and luxury buildings. All paid by simple Russian citizens.
2. Name the property as "unuseful" and sell it to the pocket company for a laughable sum.
3. Resell the property for its market value. Share millions of $$$ between government officials, who let that happen.
The second reason is political. The Academy and scientific society in Russia was a pain in the ass for Putin, with his neo-religious policy and his fraudulent friends. Several dozens (!) of government officials have been caught with fake scientific works full of plagiarism. The "miraculous" water filters, which were going to be forced by one of Putin's friends in power to be installed in every Russian city, were shown to be a hoax. There were many, many other collisions between scientific society and our fraudulent government. But it is over now.
Stay tuned for new "scientific" discoveries, about how Holy Water heals cancer and a prayer lessens rocket failure rate. Assuming we will still have rockets.
Putin is not a dumb man, but there's considerable evidence that he does not have the best interests of the country and his citizens in mind.
The Academy of Science had a lot of independence in terms of how it organized itself, and, to a considerable extent, on its research. The commie "iron fist" did apply, but even that was significantly less binding on the Academy even under Stalin compared to most other state institutions.
I don't know why you bring up MiG-31 and S-400. These are Soviet scientific and engineering advances, not modern Russian ones (well, S-400 is, but it is really just a slightly improved S-300 - the original designation is S-300PM3). And they are developed by design bureaus that were set up in Soviet times and largely stuffed by the same personnel. There has been very little that Russia can actually boast of developing from scratch, or at least with significant advances, since the collapse of USSR, because its R&D infrastructure has been decaying. Putin did not reverse that trend.
The only thing you need to know to properly assess this decision is to look at how the state has managed other projects. Look no further than the Sochi Olympics - a cesspit of corruption and kickbacks. Or the various property deals in Moscow. By now, I would rather ask for proof that the same exact thing will not happen to the Academy, since the trend is definitely the other way around...
And I don't know what Ayn Rand has to do with all this. The discussion here is not whether Academy of Sciences must be private or not - as you've noted, it was never private, and of course it shouldn't be. The question is whether the administration and management of the academy, its resources and personnel is to be done by government bureaucrats from the outside, or by scientists themselves on the inside.
Sorry, maybe my selection of words was incorrect - "40-50 years old" should mean "40-50 years ago old".
Absence of proof != proof of absence.