Slashdot Mirror


BitTorrent "Bundles" Create Cash Registers Inside Artwork

cagraham writes "BitTorrent has released a new file format called Bundle into closed alpha-testing today, according to VentureBeat. The format allows artists to embed a paywall inside of their work, and then distribute the art for free over BitTorrent. When users open the work they can listen or view part it for free, and are then prompted to either pay a fee, turn over their email address, or perhaps share the work over social media, in order to see the rest. The new format may ease artists concerns about releasing work for free and having to hope for compensation in the future. Artists who have already signed on include Madonna, The Pixies, and author Tim Feriss."

21 of 97 comments (clear)

  1. Let me translate that into English: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They've reinvented demoware.

    1. Re:Let me translate that into English: by _KiTA_ · · Score: 4, Funny

      They've reinvented demoware.

      You're forgetting the magic words that summon Venture Capitalists:

      "It's Demoware... IN THE CLOUD"

    2. Re:Let me translate that into English: by Adriax · · Score: 2

      Bah, these are the risk takers that think beyond your puny limitations. The ones who will get in on the next trillion dollar idea because they dared to dream.
      The ones who live on daddy's dime and if in any lower economic class would be sitting in a 3rd rate casino somewhere plunking nickles in a slot machine all day...

      --
      I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
    3. Re:Let me translate that into English: by eieken · · Score: 3, Informative

      This comment was made gold by having the essential "cloud-to-butt" chrome extension

      --
      Meet new people, and kill them.
  2. What stops people from redistribution? by SplatMan_DK · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unless there is yet another crappy DRM scheme buried inside these "bundles", what stops people from simply redistributing a paywall-free version?

    Seeding CRM protected files has newer been difficult. It just so happens nobody wants to download them ...

    - Jesper

    --
    My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
    1. Re:What stops people from redistribution? by Sockatume · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The honour system. Bittorrent users would never pirate music from independent artists, they only go after labels' output where the economics don't favour the artist or the consumer.

      Stop laughing.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:What stops people from redistribution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nobody is laughing. The moment some publishers like Tor started distributing e-books without DRM, there was an increase in e-book sales from these publishers. The Amazon Gateway sort of distorts this a bit, but outside the kindle world (i.e. in the open epub world) it is easier to notice such things.

    3. Re:What stops people from redistribution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Haha. Not really.
      Oh, (a) can play a part, but cheap is good enough. (b) is dumb. No one (statistically speaking) gives a fuck. (c) is the biggest point. Don't believe me? Guess how much my bit torrent use has fallen off since I got a roku and netflix account? I think that Gravity Falls and Game of Thrones are about the only things I bothered hitting torrent up for. So yeah, point c is valid, but the other two are plain wrong.

    4. Re:What stops people from redistribution? by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      (b) is dumb. No one (statistically speaking) gives a fuck.

      You have mistaken giving a fuck out of principle for giving a fuck out of annoyance.

      I have quite a few gamer friends. Most of them couldn't give the least damn about the ethics or long term implications of DRM in games. Every single one of them understands what it means when they can't play (for example) a single-player game offline on their laptop in a waiting room or on a plane. And the majority (sometimes with a bit of help, admittedly) of them have "fixed" those problems by grabbing a crack off the internet.

      So no, most people have no idea they should oppose DRM. Despite that, most people do hate everything about it without even knowing the target of their ire.

    5. Re:What stops people from redistribution? by Urza9814 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I pirate a lot of stuff -- movies, TV shows, video games...

      But in the past couple years I've completely stopped pirating music. Why? Well, if I can get a guaranteed high-quality, DRM-free copy of the album in ten seconds for $5, why would I bother spending more time to pirate a copy of unknown quality? Particularly considering how hard to find much of the music I listen to is -- you can find it on Amazon, but it's not on TPB, not on GNUtella, not on slsk, often not even on iTunes...

      I'd use Netflix if I could use it the way I wanted -- i.e., integrate it into my custom home theater system. But until Netflix will run on a Raspberry Pi, I'm going to be pirating my movies and TV shows. Of course, the ones that offer a paid download option (or even a donations appreciated download option) get my money. As for video games -- those I usually pirate just because I can't find them anymore. Pirated a bunch of N64 games because I don't have an N64, you can't find the game cartridges anywhere, and they don't offer those games for sale on the Wii store (the ones they do offer I've already purchased)...so I hacked the Wii and pirated the roms. Trying to do the same for Gamecube games now, for the same reason -- I just can't find the game discs even if I wanted to buy them. Give me a $5/game download option and I'd GLADLY skip the freakin' *weeks* I've spent trying to get the damn pirated copies to work...

    6. Re:What stops people from redistribution? by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I would agree with that...to a point. One thing we have seen over and over in economics is there is a "sweet spot" when it comes to pricing and ease of use and when that sweet spot is ignored then a black market appears to serve those customers you are foolishly ignoring.

      Take video games as an example. While of course lower prices equal more sales there is a point where continuing to lower the price doesn't increase sales simply because all of those that want the product have gotten the product by then. Watching game sales that release sales figures here is what I have observed...for indie games the sweet spot seems to be between $2-$5, unless its mobile in which case its a buck. For big name titles it really depends on how niche the game is, for example a Mirror's Edge or a God sim like Populus seem to do best in the $10-$20 price range while something more accessible to a general audience, your Saints Rows and Borderlands seem to do best in the $20-$40 but the SMART publishers go for the lower end of that curve and make up the difference in impulse buy DLC, your costumes in both and expansions in Borderlands.Finally you have those games with a VERY short shelf life, your Call Of Honor: Gears Of Killzone Halo Edition where everybody buys it for the MP which is quickly dead when the next come out and those can sell a huge amount in the $40-$60 range simply because if you don't buy at release when the next title comes out the previous one quickly becomes a ghost town.

      But if you ignore those sweet spots then piracy WILL jump off the scale because time and time again we have seen when a large part of the market isn't being served a black market WILL arise to serve those customers. We have seen this in everything from piracy to Chinese knock offs of popular electronics, if the people think the price for a tablet should be between $100-$150 and the big names all push $400 then somebody WILL come along and give all those potential customers what they want.

      I think where most industries seriously fuck up is by saying "Oh if you refuse to bend over and give us every cent we think our precious shit is worth (or that we require to pump up our stock price, see the former head of EA saying games should be $100) then you are the evil and should be destroyed" when in reality a black market is simply a signal that you are doing SOMETHING WRONG, your price is too high, your product has ease of use issues, there is something driving your potential customers across the street to the black market, you fix that issue? Watch the money train pull in.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    7. Re:What stops people from redistribution? by Iamthecheese · · Score: 2

      If, without warning, software stops me halfway through to demand money (i.e. partway through the game or music) I'll pirate it every time out of spite. That's a giant "fuck you" to the consumer.

      --
      If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    8. Re: What stops people from redistribution? by SplatMan_DK · · Score: 2

      Perhaps.

      But buying a key means everybody gets the same key (since they have the same file) or that the decryption is a mix of home brew stuff - and such things are eventually cracked. Especially on the PC.

      The only argument I can find against cracking the key system or distributing the key, is the fact thatost likely someone will distribute the decrypted content anyway, so perhaps nobody will take the time to crack the system.

      It's not a very compelling argument though ...

      --
      My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
    9. Re:What stops people from redistribution? by _KiTA_ · · Score: 2

      Does Viz release these shows in DRM-free downloadable formats? I'd imagine not. So even that one falls under the convenience category.

      Only very rarely is media released in DRM-free downloadable formats. Baen Ebooks, Tor/Forge, and Louis CK's shows are the most popular examples I know of, but it is very rare. I can think of no broadcasted or cable television show that allows it.

      I was actually speaking of the comics, not the cartoons. The great unforgivable sin was that Viz wanted something like $0.25 a chapter and had a 2 week delay (which has since been lowered to same day) release lag. The "pro-piracy" arguments were hilarious, and stupid.

      Or as I said before -- blubbering, entitled Manchildren. Especially when you consider the company they're defending, NOEZ, has made a fortune ripping off Japanese and US IP for years now.

      Anyway, DRM is no excuse. If a company wishes to sell you something with some restrictions, well, that's their right. It might be considered wrong, but oh well. That's where we're at as a culture right now -- casual theft has led to the point where companies have to put at least a token effort into protecting their goods.

      It does not mean people have the right to steal it just to spite them.

  3. Sharing as a true "free-advertising" model by taikedz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Describing the mechanism as a pay-wall probably does the feature a disservice - of course, one way of unlocking is pay, but it is stil possible to view free, and a more useful corollary as demonstrated in the article is that the artist can more effectively drive the user to a retailer of their merchandise (and a preferred one at that), or to their own store.

    As usual, persons who specifically do not wish to pay money will not have to, but ensuring a store link for that particular content accompanies the piece in an otherwise free-distribution format

    1. -allows sharers to share, and recipients still have a no-pay way of viewing the material
    2. -enables artists to edge persons amenable to the idea of paying towards a store, removing the requirement of said consumers to proactively locate a retailer
    3. -which subsequently would make the act of sharing a real free-advertising mechanism

    This could work really well, so long as sharing gratis and libere is still possible, and if artists using this can provide direct access to the specific item in an international store.

    --
    -- "Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability." --Dijkstra
  4. You can't stop redistribution; STOP ASKING by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    All of you who are asking how they will stop redistribution of the unlocked content are missing the point entirely. [Many] unauthorized copiers have long been saying that they use bittorrent not because they won't pay, but because it's better. This is an attempt to find out if that is true. The content will wind up on bittorrent networks regardless of how it is distributed, so there is really no drawback. There's no reason why this should fail spectacularly because while this doesn't make it any harder to distribute illicit copies via torrent, it also doesn't actually make it any easier.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  5. Re:Ya Good luck with that by TheCarp · · Score: 2

    However it doesn't necessarily matter if its cracked, if the distribution method is easy enough and the content cheap enough (this cuts out a lot of palms) then its likely enough people will just pay for it to make a decent profit. After that, who cares about the deadbeats who share it for free? Its all gravy after that anyway.

    I think one thing many don't realize, and some like the RIAA base their entire job on not realizing, is what LL Bean seems to have realized with their return policy: trying to stamp out every possible abuse alienates customers. Take a little with a smile and you look better and may come out on top at the end. It makes you look better to other customers.

    Put it another way, it may be your right to put whatever restrictions you want in place, and you may be able to run a store where nothing is stolen and no merchandise returned unfairly, but if achieving that drives away customers and gives you a reputation as a pain in the ass that nobody wants to deal with, its not really good business practice is it?

    In short, they don't have to stop abuse, they just need to make profit. If they can delay the abuse a bit and make it easy enough that people with money opt to pay for it.... then it hardly matters what the crackers do.... they and the people who download their warez were not going to pay up anyway.

    --
    "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  6. Re:artists, get over it! by taikedz · · Score: 2

    I consort with artists. I talk with them often. Small fry, who want so desperately to make a living from doing what they love. They fear for their work being lost on the net with no trace back home, and therefore no commissions, and therefore no pay.

    I talk to them about Creative Commons. All you need is to submit to advertising and get page views. How many, when anyone can be an artist? Just get a part time job to tide you over. A job to afford making art, that takes so much time away from making art?. It's not as easy a sell as the more famous (and already rich) proponents would have you believe. Artists who are still starting out have to get every penny they can - not out of avarice. Out of necessity.

    They're not in a big Studio. They're not funded by organisations. They don't have a paycheck. They operate independantly. Freely. Wihtout agenda. Isn't that the type of art we want to see? Isn't that the type of art we hold up as ideal? Is that not worth paying artists a living for?

    I believe artists should be able to monetize the dozens of hours and materials they spend to create a work we can share at the push of a button.

    The artists who are my friends: I also feed them the hot meals they still can't afford.

    --
    -- "Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability." --Dijkstra
  7. Whats the "bundle" format? by mounthood · · Score: 2

    Does this bundle format need their client? Is there an embedded scripting engine? (what about security issues?) Is the content encrypted or just blocked? Does it phone-home to unlock? (on every use?) Do you know the price and terms before downloading it, or only after downloading and trying to use it?

    I can't find anything on the technology at bittorrent.com or bittorrent.org, either with Google or browsing. I guess this is just another closed-source extension pretending to be "bit-torrent" so they can claim 170 million users.

    --
    tomorrow who's gonna fuss
  8. Re:Ya Good luck with that by Somebody+Is+Using+My · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Alternately (and more likely), people simply won't bother with these bundles.

    In other words, expect to see something like this for all these "bundles" on your favorite torrent site:

    HOT TORRENTZ* FOR MADONNA'S NEWEST SONG!!!!
              Comment 1: Hey, this is just a demo and it asks for money after 1 minute. Anyone know where I can download the full song?
              Comment 2: yeah, go to http://www.piratestuff.com/torrent1234.html**
    File size: 12MB Total downloads: 1 Seeds: 37*** Leechers: 0

    Meanwhile, the usual torrent of the MP3 or AVI files without the bundled DRM will have thousands of downloads. Why should people waste their time downloading these bundles and then looking for a crack when it's available elsewhere without the hassle?


    * purposeful use of "z" to make it seem cool and illegal, just like a real pirated song!
    ** not a real link so don't even bother
    *** seeders are all the copyright owners wondering why nobody is downloading

  9. Re:Spent 5 minutes looking for details... by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

    Well, the details are sparse. Being that it's bettorrent what we know is that there will be two versions of the content, the secure payload, and the superior ripped version without DRM which is freely available from ThePirateBay.