No Upper Bound On Phone Record Collection, Says NSA

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No Upper Bound On Phone Record Collection, Says NSA

Posted by timothy on Thursday September 26, 2013 @09:03AM from the don't-write-a-blank-check-to-the-government dept.

PCWorld reports that "[A] U.S. surveillance court has given the National Security Agency no limit on the number of U.S. telephone records it collects in the name of fighting terrorism, the NSA director said Thursday. The NSA intends to collect all U.S. telephone records and put them in a searchable 'lock box' in the interest of national security, General Keith Alexander, the NSA's director, told U.S. senators." But don't worry; it's just metadata, until it isn't. (Your row in the NSA database may already be getting cozy in its nice new home in Utah.)

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Foil hats? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 09:06 · Score: 5, Funny

Shinny side out or in?
1. Re:Foil hats? by cold+fjord · 2013-09-26 10:49 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  The shiny side should face what you're trying to protect.
  If you don't want them reading your brain waves, the shiny side goes on the inside to prevent the brain waves from leaking out.
  If you don't want them using mind control beams on you, the shiny side goes on the outside to keep the mind control beams out.
  If you're worried about both, then you need to go double layer with a shiny side facing both in and out.
  If you think the molemen might be involved, then you should put a layer in the bottoms of your shoes, and maybe in your underwear.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
2. Re:Foil hats? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 14:10 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  You can't have the shiny sides facing each other, jeez. The mind control waves will become trapped between the two shiny faces and cause massive heat build up. This is basic tin foil hat theory guys, come on.
3. Re:Foil hats? by brxndxn · 2013-09-26 16:20 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  How the fuck is this funny? We have a direct quote from the director of the NSA and you make a joke alluding to conspiracy theorists like they're the crazy ones. The thing that is crazy here is that the dumb useless clueless fucktarded people like you would rather make light of something and continue to act like something is nothing than actually effect some positive change..
  The US Constitution is the supreme law of the land.. You would probably make fun of that too.
  
  --
  --- We need more Ron Paul!
Intends to? by mosb1000 · 2013-09-26 09:07 · Score: 5, Insightful

The NSA intends to collect all U.S. telephone records and put them in a searchable 'lock box' in the interest of national security
No, they don't intend to do this at all, they already do collect all of it.
Metadata Equals Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 09:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

But don't worry; it's just metadata
Metadata Equals Surveillance
1. Re:Metadata Equals Surveillance by whoever57 · 2013-09-26 10:48 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Perhaps some enterprising jounalist, or the EFF could make some FOIA requests for phone records from the NSA, Whitehouse, etc.. Let the government say that the data is private!
  
  --
  The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Tinfoil hats for all by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 09:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

Turns out the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists were pretty much spot on.
1. Re:Tinfoil hats for all by coastwalker · 2013-09-26 09:29 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Not only that but all that cold war stuff was a complete waste of time - we are the Soviet Union.
  
  --
  Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
This is gonna be awesome! by http · 2013-09-26 09:15 · Score: 4, Informative

I've never seen a civil war up close before.

--
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
1. Re:This is gonna be awesome! by intermodal · 2013-09-26 09:32 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It's not a pretty idea. But even more frightening is what history tells us about the end-result of governments that believe in their own unlimited powers.
  
  --
  In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
2. Re:This is gonna be awesome! by istartedi · 2013-09-26 10:19 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I've never seen a civil war up close before
  . Never going to happen in the US.
  Yeah. There's no precedent for that.
  
  --
  For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Stalin-type Purges by silentbozo · 2013-09-26 09:20 · Score: 5, Informative

How long before the next incoming majority party decides to use the NSA data to clean house? Just to make sure that their government is free of ties to terrorism, foreign governments, and corruption, of course... and to ensure that everyone is loyal and pure of ideology.
1. Re:Stalin-type Purges by memnock · 2013-09-26 11:40 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  "... Just to make sure that their government is free of ties to terrorism... "
  Do you mean terrorism like the kind that involves killing unknowing bystanders? The U.S. doesn't do that. Oh wait...
  
  --
  "To stop the terrorists."
An example of the metadata... by QilessQi · 2013-09-26 09:24 · Score: 5, Funny

The frequency and amplitude of the phone conversation, sampled at 1-millisecond intervals.
Just metadata.

--
Koans and fables for the software engineer
Re:New word for Webster's by dyingtolive · 2013-09-26 09:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

I don't think they need a new word. Just use a perfectly good old word. How about "tyrant"?

--
Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
NSA Directory Keith Alexander in a nutshell by dkleinsc · 2013-09-26 09:27 · Score: 5, Interesting

He wants all information about everybody he can get his hands on. That's basically his job.
That's why it's the President's job is to say "That's illegal. Don't do it. If you do it, I will have you fired, arrested for wiretapping, and charged for your crimes. I will do that to the next NSA Director who breaks the law. And the next. For as many as it takes, until I get an NSA Director who understands that the law supercedes what they want.", and follow through on what he said.
President Obama has failed to do this. So did President Bush. That's because they don't want to do their job, they'd rather (for whatever reason) have an NSA breaking the law.

--
I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
Bill to rein in NSA by SirGarlon · 2013-09-26 09:28 · Score: 5, Informative

For those who don't know, Senators Wyden (D-OR), Udall (D-CO), Paul (R-KY) and Blumenthal (D-CT) say they will introduce a bill today to rein in the NSA.

--
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
1. Re:Bill to rein in NSA by Desler · 2013-09-26 10:12 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Hahaha what? You seem to be willfully ignoring that the Republicans controlled the House during passage 229 to 205. You also seem to be ignoring that the Patriot Act was authored and introduced by a Republican Representative. You also seem to be ignoring the fact that of the 66 nays in the House that 62 were Democrats. And that Republicans voted Yea at a 3:2 margin in the House. You also seem to ignore that not a single Republican voted Nay in the Senate. The Nay was that of Democrat Russ Feingold who also warned about the Section 215 powers. The only abstention in the Senate was also a Democrat.
  So to act like the passage of the Patriot Act would have been any different with a Republican controlled Senate is ludicrous when nary a single Republican senator voted against it.
2. Re:Bill to rein in NSA by Lunix+Nutcase · 2013-09-26 10:26 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  it was the Democrats with a supermajority in Congress that VOTED IT IN IN THE FIRST PLACE.
  Maybe in some alternate reality. In the real world the 107th Congress was at the time of the passage of the Patriot Act
  House: 219 R / 211 D / 2 I with Republican Denny Hastert as Speaker
  Senate: 50 R / 50 D with Republican Strom Thurman as President Pro tempore and Dick Cheney as tie breaker
  How exactly would that be a Democrat super majority?
Re:get over it by AlphaWoIf_HK · 2013-09-26 09:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

Get used to it.
No, and that sounds like a terrible idea.

--
Da derp dee derp da teedly derpee derpee dum. Rated PG-13.
NSA=commie by sjames · 2013-09-26 09:49 · Score: 4, Funny

Wasn't it always the dirty commies that spied on their own people and didn't care if they liked it or not?
Why does the NSA hate democracy?
Show of hands by PPH · 2013-09-26 09:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

Who wants this crap to continue "in the name of fighting terrorism"? The alternative seems to be we lose 3000 people every dozen years or so. Big deal. I say we write off our losses every once in a while and stop shitting ourselves.

--
Have gnu, will travel.
Not merely illegal, but unconstitutional. by jcr · 2013-09-26 10:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

Andrew Napolitano explains very clearly why the FISA "court" is an unconstitutional institution, and not a court of law at all.
Even if the FISA court was a legal forum, no court in this country has the authority to override the 4th amendment.
-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Not entirely true by Charliemopps · 2013-09-26 12:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

First let me say: I work for a phone company. I'm a DBA, I've had my hands on just about everything, so I know what's possible and what's not. Also, no, I do not know of any access the NSA has to our records. Clearly they could have API access but I'm pretty sure I'd have heard about it. If they are in our systems it's likely without our knowledge.
Second: I hate the NSA and everything they are doing. I do not doubt they are already collecting everything they possibly can.
But...
We don't collect "All phone records" All this meta-data everyone is talking about is useless to us. Why would we keep a record of you calling your brother? If it's a toll free call we could give a fuck less and it's NOT recorded. You have to remember that the majority of phone switches in the US today were built in the 60's and 70's. The largest drives they have are incredibly old 20mb hard drives the size of a phone book. (ironic huh?) To allow us to store more data, these drives are dumped via netowork every night to standard Oracle databases. If the NSA is hacking us, this is likely where they get their info. As all the daily data rolls off we can collect more. But the truth of it is, we only collect data for billing purposes. So if your call doesn't generate a charge it doesn't get logged. The switch does not have the disk space to store it. We CAN log all your calls, if requested. CALEA requests come in for that sort of thing, but the number of lines that can be going on in one switch at a time is very limited. The data stacks up fast and we have engineers checking regularly to make sure there aren't too many running at once. I think the most I ever saw, in a city of 50k+ was 3...
Then you have the toll calls. Now your phone company logs those but where the call actually goes? No... They know you dialed X number, were on the phone for Xmin and they charge you. Where the call actually went they have no idea. If you have a number in Istanbul that automatically forwards to some other number? Your phone company has no clue. Your phone company looks up the number from a public list, figures out which exchange it belongs to, then passes the call along the cheapest route to that destination. Each subsequent exchange only knows where the call is headed and the preceding exchange. They do not know who made the call, they may get caller id info but that stuff is ridiculously easy to fake. Your call jumps from exchange A to B to C to D to E... all exchange C knows is that the call is headed to E and it came from B... so they can bill B... B bills A and so on. The only exchange the NSA could get any real data from is A, the one the call originated from.
Long story short, this data is pretty much useless for terrorists. If you're making ANY attempt to disguise where you're calling they're pretty much out of luck. Disposable cellphones from wallmart pretty much make this entire effort pointless.
Now the real question is: What is the NSA really using this data for?