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All Your Child's Data Are Belong To InBloom

theodp writes "Q. What do you get when Bill Gates and Rupert Murdoch put their heads together? A. inBloom (aka SLC), the Gates Foundation-bankrolled and News Corp. subsidiary-implemented collaboration whose stated mission is to 'inform and involve each student and teacher with data and tools designed to personalize learning.' It's noble enough sounding, but as the NY Times reports, the devil is in the details when it comes to deciding who sees students' academic and behavioral data. inBloom execs maintain their service has been unfairly maligned, saying it is entirely up to school districts or states to decide which details about students to store in the system and with whom to share them. However, a video on inBloom's Web site suggesting what this techno-utopia might look like may give readers of 1984 some pause. In one scene, a teacher with a tablet crouches next to a second-grader evaluating how many words per minute he can read: 55 words read; 43 correctly. Later, she moves to a student named Tyler and selects an e-book 'for at-risk students' for his further reading. The video follows Tyler home, where his mom logs into a parent portal for an update on his status — attendance, 86%; performance, 72% — and taps a button to send the e-book to play on the family TV. And another scene shows a geometry teacher reassigning students' seating assignments based on their 'character strengths', moving a green-coded female student ('actively participates: 98%') next to a red-and-yellow coded boy ('shows enthusiasm: 67%'). The NYT also mentions a parent's concern that school officials hoping to receive hefty Gates Foundation Grants may not think an agreement with the Gates-backed inBloom completely through."

211 comments

  1. All it takes is one zero day exploit... by RevDisk · · Score: 2

    And all of that collected data can end up on a torrent. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of all those lawsuits.

    1. Re:All it takes is one zero day exploit... by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exploit? All of that data is on an unencrypted USB stick on the table next to a marketing exec having an outdoor espresso lunch right now.

      New rule of thumb for data: If you've collected it, the internet already knows.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    2. Re: All it takes is one zero day exploit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can see it now childern required to exercise's infront of the tv before they goto school, can you say creepy? Kind'a reminds me of a famous authors book.

    3. Re:All it takes is one zero day exploit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The NSA, through FISA, has already established an agreement with Gates and has complete access to all data. Connecting this data set to social networks analysis and communications analysis allows the NSA to build more complete and robust pictures of suspected and unsuspected terrorist activities in your neighborhood.

  2. Speaking of classic literature... by vlpronj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds a little like Brave New World, too

    1. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by buchner.johannes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sounds to me like those people think the essentials of education can be quantized. Sure some measurements are important, but that's not all there is to learning. And those students probably will start valuing themselves by their ranking, and only have those numbers in their heads.
      I can see how HR departmants will be fans. Another method, like the IQ statistic, to assign numbers to people. What a dumb idea to get yourself ranked.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    2. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sounds like we got ourselves a salty Beta Minus right here.

    3. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by Reapy · · Score: 1

      I mean I mostly agree, but if you think about it we're already ranked on an arbitrary stat, charasima. I mean, I hate the thought of weird stats getting put into a machine and ranking you based on that, and having your teacher and parent's perceptions of you altered by a 'bad' stat. But, in some cases, it might be nice to have another avenue to excel at rather than base genetics, clothing, fitness, voice tone, body language and number of 'smiles per minute' you can put out, that we use now.

    4. Re: Speaking of classic literature... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's basically how US public education has always been, since the time of Horace Mann, who modeled the system on Prussian regimentation, which relied heavily on absurdly precise measurements and uniformity. Hold your pen at a 51 degree angle, sit in rows and columns spaced exactly three feet apart, write out paradigms and submit your answers to be graded as percentages. The 19th and 20th century educational movements were largely about quantifying the student. Sometimes that data gathering gets dehumanizing, but few people challenge the quantification of students now, for better or for worse. Very little of what's in that video in terms of data collection and storage are new; the interface is shinier and the data is more integrated in their vision than it is now, but that's the only big difference.

    5. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by BonThomme · · Score: 1

      in my day he would have been a Double Minus!

    6. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Everything can be quantized, the only question is whether doing so is better than not doing so. You've offered no evidence either way.

    7. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by mjr167 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It will prepare them for having a real job where their value to the company will be quantized using whatever metrics make management feel warm and fuzzy today.

    8. Re: Speaking of classic literature... by jd2112 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.
      This however is mostly forgotten I'm the corporate, and apparently academic world.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    9. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds to me like those people think the essentials of education can be quantized. Sure some measurements are important, but that's not all there is to learning. And those students probably will start valuing themselves by their ranking, and only have those numbers in their heads.
      I can see how HR departmants will be fans. Another method, like the IQ statistic, to assign numbers to people. What a dumb idea to get yourself ranked.

      I'm not sure if you've had kids in school or how involved you've been, but teachers (the good ones) have done this for decades. They recognize a child's individual need for motivation or a slightly modified reading assignment and seek to address it.

      inBloom, from what I understand, is middle-ware that sits on top of the entrenched, f'ed up legacy systems schools have already. It then aggregates the data and provides REST services to other apps and has their own modules and applications with which things can be done.

      Sure, the commercial is rather wiz-bang, but the idea is pretty sound. I'm also relatively sure that at least a portion of the inBloom software is open source, as they ran a big hacking session at OSCON 2013.

    10. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a little Brave New World, in bloom and ready. Grooming, it's automatized.

    11. Re: Speaking of classic literature... by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      Clever quips are not an argument. Please provide some reasoning why educational performance or intelligence cannot be meaningfully quantised in some way or another. Or why doing so is always completely useless.

      For instance- I could rate your English proficiency as "need improvement" based on use of wrong words and comma splices. Comparing this to others I could probably come up with a numerical relation with you to your peers. With that data I could recommend you spending more time on grammar / writing if you seemed to fall below others in that area. Seems pretty useful and doable to me.

    12. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no minus, there is only unplus.

    13. Re: Speaking of classic literature... by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      Please provide some reasoning why educational performance or intelligence cannot be meaningfully quantised in some way or another.

      What exactly are you measuring? If the underlying model that you're using to map performance to performance metrics is wrong, then the resulting metrics are worthless at best.

      This question hasn't been settled in the field of education. We can't even agree on what IQ is, or if there is any such thing.

    14. Re: Speaking of classic literature... by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      What exactly are you measuring? If the underlying model that you're using to map performance to performance metrics is wrong, then the resulting metrics are worthless at best.

      That is just not true. At the very least it can help to bring (some) struggling students to the surface. I'm not sure many people would consider that useless.

      It also does not answer the request of why these things can never be useful.

      If we demand full human-spectrum coverage of everything we do then we will never accomplish anything. If we don't experiment with metrics and measuring intelligence/performance we will never improve our theories/metrics/understanding/education techniques. We already map performance-to-performance; we call them "grades". Experimenting with ways to improve this system is a good thing.

    15. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by b4upoo · · Score: 1

      There may be merit in using data to get sharper students to be surrounded by other sharp students and for lesser students to be surrounded by those like themselves as well. Kids usually want to be popular and seen as up and coming types of people and using this tactic may cause students to strive to be lumped into the group of better students. I doubt that we do any favors to kids when we try to cover up the fact that everything is about discrimination. For example the first string on the football team is valued by school kids and second string or not on the team at all is a big negative. Those chosen for the first string are the boys who have demonstrated their ability on the spot. None of the potential ability nonsense is in play. It is rather like applying for a job in which there are many applicants. Usually it is what can you do for me right now that lands the job. Academics might want to try a similar tactic and clearly let the kids know that there are winners and losers in education and it is one heck of a lot more important than being popular on a sports team.

    16. Re: Speaking of classic literature... by sjames · · Score: 2

      Actually, the burden of proof is on those who maintain that it CAN be. Until that evidence is presented, we work under the assumption that it cannot be.

      For your example, what makes you so sure jd2112 wasn't just in a hurry or unmotivated to proof read carefully for a quick /. post? Meanwhile, where is the SCORE? Where have you quantified the grammar in such a way that it may be meaningfully compared against other /. members?

      Where would James Joyce fall on your spectrum? How would he stack up against the editor for Reader's Digest's Humor in Uniform section?

    17. Re: Speaking of classic literature... by sjames · · Score: 1

      How can a flawed metric bring struggling students to the surface? Particularly struggling students that the teacher couldn't already identify as struggling?

      What detrimental effects will it have when it mis-identifies an adequate student as struggling? How about if it mis-identifies the reason the student is struggling?

    18. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by FredGauss · · Score: 1

      Sounds to me like those people think the essentials of education can be quantized. Sure some measurements are important, but that's not all there is to learning. And those students probably will start valuing themselves by their ranking, and only have those numbers in their heads. I can see how HR departmants will be fans. Another method, like the IQ statistic, to assign numbers to people. What a dumb idea to get yourself ranked.

      This is very true. An additional core issue, is 1. the impact of measuring behavior on behavior that is observed and 2. feedback into the overall loop. Regarding 1. If someone is prone to picking their nose, do they do so more often when people are watching, or privately? Some sports players are known for shining under intense pressure, while others crumble at the most critical moments. For a more complex "monitoring" system, it's difficult to discern what the impact might be on behaviors that one might observe if the system were not in place. Regarding 2. For the basic loop of: a. Collect data on behavior b. Model/Analyze/Form Policies c. Use b. to "guide students" changing a. Assuming b. is sensible, is the goal of the system to have observations in a. driven towards the maximum of an objective function defined by b. (What is the guarantee of convergence?). The biggest problem perhaps, is even in assuming that the policies in b. do meet some ideal (that everyone agrees is ideal etc.) to assume that it is possible to drive the dynamics of the overall system in a fashion that has predictable consequences may be very misguided. The medicine can also easily become the disease. (looking at you Bufo marinus)

    19. Re: Speaking of classic literature... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Experimenting with ways to improve this system is a good thing.

      Experiment with your own kids, kthxbye.

    20. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rather than base genetics, clothing, fitness, voice tone, body language and number of 'smiles per minute' you can put out, that we use now.

      You basically just said genetics, genetics, genetics, genetics, genetics and genetics.

    21. Re: Speaking of classic literature... by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I can give you a reason. It is not my children's responsibility to raise the children of those who breed without caring. I homeschool my children. I do it because I want them to have a good education that is not held back by age based ranking. This is a common theme among homeschooling families. An argument that consistently is leveled against us as a group is that we are taking the best and brightest from the schools, leaving the public schools to flounder with only the most difficult and slowest kids.

      What this kind of tracking would lead to is what is said in the summary: "And another scene shows a geometry teacher reassigning students' seating assignments based on their 'character strengths', moving a green-coded female student ('actively participates: 98%') next to a red-and-yellow coded boy ('shows enthusiasm: 67%')". My son is oldest son is 9. He has not chosen to have children of his own at that age, and thus it is not his responsibility to raise someone elses child.

    22. Re:Speaking of classic literature... by Belial6 · · Score: 1
      Unfortunately, being able to identify the sharper kids is more likely to have them stuck between two dimmer kids. The summery even has that point.

      "And another scene shows a geometry teacher reassigning students' seating assignments based on their 'character strengths', moving a green-coded female student ('actively participates: 98%') next to a red-and-yellow coded boy ('shows enthusiasm: 67%')

      If we lived in a world where the goal wasn't to make everyone equal, the data could be used to let the brighter kids excel. That won't happen in our current environment. Since everyone must be equal, the brightest kids are not allowed to go beyond the slowest kids.

    23. Re: Speaking of classic literature... by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      How can a flawed metric bring struggling students to the surface? Particularly struggling students that the teacher couldn't already identify as struggling?

      Because it can flag them for further attention. Which is what the current metric, grades, is used for. How do you think the teacher is identifying them as struggling? They are using some form of personally-defined metrics. What happens when a teacher uses whatever their personal bias is to define when a student is struggling? "Girls can't do math therefore you are struggling". Teachers have used that metric in the past so I guess we can't leave the judgement up to them. Putting researching into better finding struggling students and why they're struggling is a very good thing. That you think "metrics" is a dirty word doesn't change that. We could argue strawmen all day but it won't accomplish anything.

      What detrimental effects will it have when it mis-identifies an adequate student as struggling? How about if it mis-identifies the reason the student is struggling?

      None! On additional scrutiny it can be determined if they were falsely flagged or not. Who cares if it misidentifies 1 student out of 10 million. It won't harm them in any way. The hundreds of thousands of dyslexic students in that sample will certainly benefit from it though. Now they can get additional help instead of struggling and probably flunking out.

    24. Re: Speaking of classic literature... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Because it can flag them for further attention

      So can a coin toss.

      None! On additional scrutiny it can be determined if they were falsely flagged or not.

      So not three lines before you were convinced that a teacher would mis-identify a student as struggling in math just because of gender, but suddenly she will leap from the phone booth as super teacher who is not fooled by super accurate scientific (TM) metrics from the dept. or education?!? Where did she even find a phone booth? :-)

      If you're going to be honest about potential harm, you have to consider confirmation bias and the whole world of self-fulfilling prophesies. There are actual scientific studies that demonstrate that if a teacher is told a student is gifted, he will do better and if she is told he is challenged, he will do worse.

      I see no evidence at all to suggest that a flawed metric will be any more accurate than that coin toss I mentioned.

  3. it's much worse than the summary indicates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    See this link where the Gates Foundation project is described as a database which tracks "student hobbies, career goals, attitudes toward school", and other factors, and makes that data available to private companies without the parents' consent.

    Furthermore, InBloom says: While inBloom pledges to guard the data tightly, its own privacy policy states that it “cannot guarantee the security of the information stored or that the information will not be intercepted when it is being transmitted.”

    1. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by MitchDev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Corporations (which control the government effectively anyway) are worse than any government at this point.

    2. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Corporations do not have SWAT teams, and cannot generally imprison you or kill you for "resisting arrest" ("stop resisting!" shouted over and over to the dying man unable to breathe whose chest is compressed by the weight of 5 officers). Corporations do not generally shell thousands of innocents to death. So no, they are not "worse than any government". It is far more dangerous for the government to have this data. Marketing is bad, and annoying, but it is nowhere close to what governments do to people they don't like.

    3. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by dmbasso · · Score: 0

      You and those who up-voted your post didn't read the emphasized part:

      Corporations (which control the government effectively anyway) are worse than any government at this point.

      --
      `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    4. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yep - that's why all corporations based in America have to hand all their user data over to the government...

      You know - for "safety"....

    5. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by schwit1 · · Score: 1

      If you wish not to do business with a corporation that is your right. Try doing that with governments(local, state or federal).

    6. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by CyprusBlue113 · · Score: 1

      If you wish not to do business with a corporation that is your right. Try doing that with governments(local, state or federal).

      Last I checked, it's quite easy to move to Somalia.

      --
      a handful of selfish greedy people are no match for millions of selfish, greedy people -u4ya
    7. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by TooTechy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thankfully I did read your comment correctly.
      I agree with you.
      It seems that a large portion of the /. crowd just cannot read between the lines and require points to be spelled out. Perhaps, if they received a better education and used their HOTS (High Order Thinking Skills) which was under discussion a few years ago when Texas wanted to ban this in schools, they would have understood what you meant in your submission.
      Now you could consider this comment a bit of a troll. It is undeniable. However, just try to understand the point that is being made by a submitter before modding it. (This submission included).

    8. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      You're right that corporations don't have SWAT or the power to kill or imprison you, but not for the reasons you think. It's not that they're incapable of killing you outright or imprisoning you, it's because it's much more efficient to let the government do it where necessary. Why assume the cost or liability of their own SWAT teams? Fear of bankrupcy or lawsuits is more than sufficient to get what they want out of pretty much everyone. If they make themselves appear too much of a menace, arming themselves and killing people, the citizens might actually do something to end it. People let governments do it for various reasons, in ours it's because we vote for the government, that legitimizes it. Other governments get their citizens to tolerate them based on fear, but that's a hard act to maintain when people are rich and educated enough. Corporations legitimize their power here by the assumption that if they got wealth, they worked hard to earn it, and if you little citizen work hard, you'll get rich too. And they legitimize it by "We're just a corporation! We're not the government!" And recently by acting as if providing jobs is a noble act.

      Large groups of people with power and influence, whether "corporation" or "government" are basically the same creature. Individual people contribute their cunning and greed, and the group structure allows ethics and mortality to be filtered out. I'm not saying corporations are worse than governments, I'm saying it's silly to debate which one is worse. Neither should be allowed to be too powerful.

    9. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by Lithdren · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Random Corp cant hold a gun to my head. Great, I feel so much better.

      They can however, prevent me from obtaining employment (and being self-employed is not always an option folks), obtaining credit (That's an awfully nice credit score you have there...be a shame if something...happened...to it.), track my every movement through various means, take me to court on bogus charges then drop them forcing me to miss days of work to defend myself (if I am already employed), or bill me for services they did not provide and force me to spend more time and money fighting them in court.

      They might not be able to kill me, but they sure as heck can make me want to kill myself. Is that really any better?

    10. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by dmbasso · · Score: 1

      It was not my comment, though I agree with it. I just quoted the GP and emphasized that part. ;)

      --
      `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    11. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you've forgotten about the stores of the media companies accompanying SWAT teams on their raids of dangerous pirates.

      Both want the data to better control you. Why does one have to be worse than the other?

    12. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is a lot easier to make your like hell than by employing SWAT teams.

      Nuke your credit rating
      Foreclose on your mortgage
      Evict you from your rented property
      move the neighbors from hell in next door

      Own your own hose with no mortgage?
      Just pay some brain dead/drugged teen to torch it.

    13. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends who you work for. When I worked at CSC they had a mercenary division that makes the swat teams look like children.

    14. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      s/how high/through which window

    15. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by Kielistic · · Score: 2

      Corporations do not have SWAT teams

      Tell that to Jason Chen.

    16. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by stdarg · · Score: 1

      They can however, prevent me from obtaining employment (and being self-employed is not always an option folks), obtaining credit (That's an awfully nice credit score you have there...be a shame if something...happened...to it.), track my every movement through various means, take me to court on bogus charges then drop them forcing me to miss days of work to defend myself (if I am already employed), or bill me for services they did not provide and force me to spend more time and money fighting them in court.

      All of that stuff is much easier for the government, and far more likely to happen by the hand of the government.

      You know what power a disgruntled phone representative from Some Big Corp Inc. has? None! What can they do, fraudulently sign you up for a service? Have you never disputed a charge with your credit company? It takes 30 seconds.

      Unless you manage to seriously piss off the CEO of a Fortune 500 company none of the stuff you said could happen to you.

      On the other hand, a corrupt cop, a building inspector who is having a bad day, a teacher or principal who doesn't like your child... they can all make your life pretty shitty. Not the Police Chief, not the Mayor, not the President... one little corrupt official.

      THAT is the difference in power between government and corporations.

    17. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Last I checked, it's quite easy to move to Somalia.

      So based on that I assume you consider the Islamic Courts Union -- the radical Islamic group that seeks to control Somalia -- to be a... corporation? Not a government (or aspiring government)?

      Somalia does not suck because of corporations, it sucks because of its government(s). People like you think of Somalia as a governmental vacuum but that's just ignorant of the real situation.

    18. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by CyprusBlue113 · · Score: 1

      Last I checked, it's quite easy to move to Somalia.

      So based on that I assume you consider the Islamic Courts Union -- the radical Islamic group that seeks to control Somalia -- to be a... corporation? Not a government (or aspiring government)?

      Somalia does not suck because of corporations, it sucks because of its government(s). People like you think of Somalia as a governmental vacuum but that's just ignorant of the real situation.

      The point isn't move to Somalia because it sucks, the point is move to Somalia if you want to ignore government. It sucks precisely because the government is ineffective, and that is exactly what a country with no effective government turns into. Sure it has a government, but under the same argument, so does Afghanistan, or hell, even SeaLand had a government for years.

      --
      a handful of selfish greedy people are no match for millions of selfish, greedy people -u4ya
    19. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by stdarg · · Score: 1

      It sucks precisely because the government is ineffective,

      That's incorrect though. It sucks because the government has absolutely no limit to its power.

      If you're in the ICU's jurisdiction, you would not be saying "Haha government is so weak here, you can ignore it if you want." You'd be executed for doing the most minor thing if it didn't fall in line with the ICU's orders, especially as a presumably Western non-Muslim guy (just guessing).

      Sure it has a government, but under the same argument, so does Afghanistan

      Yes, of course Afghanistan has government... I don't understand... in your mind, who is Afghan President Karzai (i.e. does he exist), and who do you think Karzai want to have peace talks with? Taliban Services LLC?

      I'm sorry but I strongly object to your characterization of these forces as non-governmental. They are governmental because they are trying to govern the society. That's what a government does, it's what the word means. The government is literally that which governs the governed. If you're being governed by the laws of the ICU, or the Taliban, or the Nazis, or Jamaica or America, then that entity is your government whether you like it or not, whether history judges them kindly or not.

      There are few places on earth that lack government. Somalia and Afghanistan are not among them. They are hotly contested areas with multiple competing governments, each of which are far stronger than the individual or family.

    20. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When the corporations own the government, what difference is there? If corporate group A pays government official B to order SWAT team C to 'take care of' citizen(s) D, do the layers of obfuscation really make a difference to you?

    21. Re:it's much worse than the summary indicates by stdarg · · Score: 1

      If the corporations are controlling the government, then the corporations that are in control of the government are actually the government. It's still the government that has the power.

  4. What's the problem? by Bogtha · · Score: 2, Insightful

    However, a video on inBloom's Web site suggesting what this techno-utopia might look like may give readers of 1984 some pause. In one scene, a teacher with a tablet crouches next to a second-grader evaluating how many words per minute he can read: 55 words read; 43 correctly.

    Since when is the idea of a teacher evaluating a student's abilities an Orwellian concept? Or does it magically become Orwellian just because a tablet is involved?

    --
    Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    1. Re:What's the problem? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      However, a video on inBloom's Web site suggesting what this techno-utopia might look like may give readers of 1984 some pause. In one scene, a teacher with a tablet crouches next to a second-grader evaluating how many words per minute he can read: 55 words read; 43 correctly.

      Since when is the idea of a teacher evaluating a student's abilities an Orwellian concept?

      When they read too much one day they'll become a threat.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    2. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or does it magically become Orwellian just because a tablet is involved?

      It is Orwellian because it tracks data well beyond academic results, such as student's outside interests and "attitudes", and makes that data available to for-profit commercial interests: "federal law allows for sharing of it with private entities and then used to sell commercial education-related products ... The businesses operating in the sector call the data contained within the database a treasure trove..."

      That's why many parents are calling this Orwellian. And they have NO CHOICE. It cannot be opted out of.

    3. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What's the problem" you ask;
      Well, for some of the general public is the "Orwellian/techno-fear" and for most of the "slashdoters" is... Bill Gates!

    4. Re:What's the problem? by Lundse · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since when is the idea of a teacher evaluating a student's abilities an Orwellian concept? Or does it magically become Orwellian just because a tablet is involved?

      Not magically and not because of the tablet. But when one actor becomes the keeper, gatekeeper and salesperson through yet another "nice-data-you-have-there-maybe-we-should-hold-that-for.you"-based (ie. cloud) solution, then yes, we are moving closer to an Orwellian concept (with a few corporate, not one state, big brothers).
      It is not because the teacher is marking it on a tablet, it is because one big corp is going to be analysing, using and reselling the data from everything both student and teacher does to advertisers, government and related industries that this becomes a problem.

      --
      IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
    5. Re:What's the problem? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Just wait until this gets into the hands of asshole headmasters in the UK.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    6. Re:What's the problem? by SirGarlon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Since when is the idea of a teacher evaluating a student's abilities an Orwellian concept?

      I agree with you that the particular example of the teacher checking the student's reading speed and accuracy in real time is not Orwellian.

      What I am more uncomfortable with is the example of:

      ... a geometry teacher reassigning students' seating assignments based on their 'character strengths', moving a green-coded female student ('actively participates: 98%') next to a red-and-yellow coded boy ('shows enthusiasm: 67%').

      Here we have a system where, early on, students are being sorted by behavior -- or more accurately, on the teacher's subjective impression of their behavior. Let's hope the teacher is totally fair and unbiased, because anyone who's too different from his/her preconceptions is going to get labeled with an official-looking percentage. My concern is that these numbers, which sound very arbitrary and subject to emotional judgments, will create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

      In school, did you ever have a teacher you just didn't click with? I hated my sixth-grade math teacher's guts, and as far as I can tell that sentiment was totally mutual (I remember her body language.) But for me, it was no problem, because the seventh-grade math teacher didn't give a damn what Mrs. G. thought. With this system, Mrs. G. could have labelled me red (40%) in some "character" category and that data would stay with me into seventh grade. So the seventh grade teacher could say "oh, little Sir Garlon is an insubordinate slacker, I'd better not waste my limited time on him -- I'll concentrate on the yellow students because I need to end the year with 50% green to get tenure."

      This is more or less what happened to my brother, whose IQ is 10 points higher than mine but who had a hearing disability that made the educational system sideline him. Now he's driving a truck instead of curing cancer or building space probes.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    7. Re:What's the problem? by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      Its not a new thing that people place "judgement" on certain types of attitudes. Its isn't as if the term "bad attitude" has not been around for a long time. When we start codifying and making education and opportunistic prescriptions based on "how enthusiastic" someone is; I think its of some concern. Its to easy for people to see adjectives like "passionate" as an explicitly desirable quality.

        Sure sometime it might be; might always be though. An intelligent but dispassionate individual for instance might not make a great CEO but could be an excellent and objective finance VP a huge assent to an enterprise, or perhaps a great head of household as a home maker. That is unless somewhere early in their education someone decides "passion" == "good" and pidgin holes them into some tier two track because their did not demonstrate enough enthusiasm for arithmetic in the second grade, even after showing they understood the concepts and were capable of executing the exercises correctly.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    8. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its not a new thing that people place "judgement" on certain types of attitudes.

      But it IS a new thing that we track this subjective assessment in databases which are no longer private to the student/parents/teachers. It IS a new thing that "outside interests" outside of the school domain are logged in the same database. It IS a new thing that all this information can be sold and will follow students forever.

    9. Re:What's the problem? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      become a threat...to the landed gentry.

      Finish your jokes off properly, please.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    10. Re:What's the problem? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 0, Troll

      My children were taught -- taught, mind you -- that Reagan was an awful, awful president for the common man

      I assume you have no problem with the current status quo who has completely locked up public education? But let a private company recommend a book, hells noes!

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    11. Re:What's the problem? by Lundse · · Score: 2

      I am so sorry. I thought this was the discussion about a private company owning (and as such companies are wont to do) selling detailed data on all teachers and students, while providing a lock-in platform for serving and tracking all teaching. If they are only recommending a book or other teacher aid, then I must have completely misunderstood the article. Sorry, won't happen again!

      --
      IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
    12. Re: What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Simple: take it to its extreme. Every class mark, outburst, school habit from k-12 will be evaluated fr your college transcript.

      You have the grades, but so do 500 other applicants, and there are 2 slots left. And you happen to make the top 4, but you have recorded 'play problems' in grades 4-6, while the others don't. And now your rejected from college. Better off at a trade school, right?

      Point is, this moves toward a direction where future workers are highly redirected based on a learning system that only benefits those who are predisposed to that type of classroom learning environment.

      I'd be more receptive to this if steps in classroom size, as well as curriculum rewrite every few years weren't a concern, but that isn't happening. Instead we throw technology at it and hope it fixes the problem. There's 40+ years of Ed. Psych. data available almost proving that technology does not directly improve the learning ability in a child.

      When the hell did technology become a learning savior, and who the hell thought it was a good idea?

    13. Re:What's the problem? by aNonnyMouseCowered · · Score: 1

      "This is more or less what happened to my brother, whose IQ is 10 points higher than mine but who had a hearing disability that made the educational system sideline him. Now he's driving a truck instead of curing cancer or building space probes."

      Maybe he's happier driving a truck? When the economy falters, the first to get cut are those useless rocket scientists. Your brother will probbly be driving a truck well into the zombie apocalypse.

    14. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, driving a truck probably pays better and promises steadier employment than curing cancer or building space probes.

    15. Re:What's the problem? by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

      Maybe he's happier driving a truck?

      Thank you for your well-informed assessment of my brother's career choices. I wasn't aware you knew him!

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    16. Re:What's the problem? by SirGarlon · · Score: 2

      The median salary for a postdoctoral cell biologist is slightly higher than the median for a truck driver, but not as much as I would expect.

      My point, though, is that to take someone whose IQ is in the top .01% of the bell curve and put him to work driving a truck is a shocking waste of talent.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    17. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I couldn't decide if you were being funny or Insightful as you're absolutely correct that as a truck driver, he'll probably remain employed even when everything goes to hell.

      I used to drive truck and it wasn't a problem finding work - pay may suck for some but it was never a problem finding work driving something

    18. Re:What's the problem? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Calm down; He was asking you a question. Hence the question mark at the end of the sentence.

      I, too, am moderately curious as to the answer, but I know that it's an unlikely one, as the road not traveled is impossible to quantify.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    19. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When that private personal information is then sold.

    20. Re:What's the problem? by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

      There are different dimensions to career happiness. I would say, for him, truck driving is high on the "lack of annoyance" axis but low on the "sense of fulfillment" and "upward mobility" axes.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    21. Re:What's the problem? by BonThomme · · Score: 1

      is your sig intended as a necessary reminder to yourself?

    22. Re:What's the problem? by BonThomme · · Score: 1

      not necessarily. driving gives one plenty of time to think while still putting food on the table.

    23. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well his brother does have an IQ ten points higher than him.

      I don't know many people with 80 IQs curing cancer, though.

    24. Re:What's the problem? by IanCal · · Score: 1

      1984 had nothing to do with the problems of selling peoples information to companies.

    25. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having an IQ ten points higher than the typical slashdotter of today doesn't put you in the top 0.01%. It puts you in around the top 50%.

      Successfully installing Ubuntu on your old P3 box doesn't make you part of some intellectual elite.

    26. Re:What's the problem? by mjr167 · · Score: 2

      My sister-in-law's kids were told by their teachers that Romney was going to take away all their candy if he was elected, while Obama would see to it they all got free candy.

    27. Re:What's the problem? by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      My point, though, is that to take someone whose IQ is in the top .01% of the bell curve and put him to work driving a truck is a shocking waste of talent.

      I went to a Magnet high school where I took all Honors an AP classes, had a 3.5 GPA in college and have a Masters degree and I currently work cargo for a major airline. It happens more often than you think, especially these days.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    28. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Truck drivers have the time to listen to tons of audio books. If I ever end up doing some type of non-mental job (I know you still have to think to drive) I hope it's something where I can listen to audio books the whole time. Listen to some for relaxation, enjoyment, and all kinds of education.

    29. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not Orwellian. It's simply the common but stupid idea that teachers should spend more time evaluating students. The problem is that there are only so many hours a day. Any time spent on evaluating students is time not spent teaching something. Not that there should be no evaluation but parents and administrators insistence on more grades, more tests and more evaluation is the main reason teachers now spend much more time grading students than teaching them.

    30. Re:What's the problem? by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 2

      Not "sorted".

      Students may be more inclined to participate when those around them do so. Having data based on at least more than one teacher's subjective opinion is a lot better, and likely to prevent exactly the scenario you describe.

      Mrs. G. would only be a part of your character input, and her contribution would decrease over time.

      There are important things to object to here, but you chose one that teachers and parents everywhere will support due to extrapolation based on anecdote. In fact, none of the examples in the summary give me pause directly. Knowing what will happen to the data based on every data collection activity ever, does.

    31. Re:What's the problem? by gallondr00nk · · Score: 2

      Here we have a system where, early on, students are being sorted by behavior -- or more accurately, on the teacher's subjective impression of their behavior.

      Not only that, but it also has absolutely no room for the cause of behaviour. It provides very little insight at all, nothing more than an observant teacher or parent can deduce in a few hours.

      A lot of fields like this seem to mistake collecting data for improving something.

      That said, I very much doubt better teaching is really the goal in this. We live in the age of the great data mines, where we take something, distort it into a metric and sell it on.

      This will be purely for the data, and to hell with how accurate it is. We know how this works. The teachers and kids will be the product, not the customer.

    32. Re:What's the problem? by femtobyte · · Score: 0

      Your children may also have been taught things like "the world is round." Why do you find the Reagan fact particularly remarkable? After all, his presidency and policies were a disaster for the "common man," and began the era of stagnating and reversing all the gains made by the US middle class in the mid-century period (for the trickle-up benefit of a tiny wealthy elite). No to mention harm to the "common man" all over the globe, such as funding murderous South American far-right militias to overthrow democracy with money from secret arms sales to Iran.

    33. Re:What's the problem? by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      This is more or less what happened to my brother, whose IQ is 10 points higher than mine but who had a hearing disability that made the educational system sideline him. Now he's driving a truck instead of curing cancer or building space probes.

      So, you can cure cancer with a 60 IQ? Sorry...cheap shot, and I couldn't resist.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    34. Re: What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When the hell did technology become a learning savior, and who the hell thought it was a good idea?

      It probably became a savior when people saw some successes and decided it was the technology alone.

      Personal story (using KSP as an example, this is not an ad for KSP). I saw an article about Kerbal Space Program on /. I checked it out and loved it. I put it in the hands of a retired teacher I know that is still involved with educational youth programs. I have seen him teach classes using KSP and, frankly, it is fucking amazing when kids learn in a couple of hours with KSP.

      Now, KSP is not real rocket science. But it does provide a reasonable approximation and allows kids to very cheaply and very rapidly prototype ideas and see immediate results. It teaches them to learn the rules of a system and solve problems to achieve goals within that system. Any success they experience generally creates a desire to take that learning to the next level. That means model rockets and learning more about physics and math.

      That is how technology can aid education now more than it ever has it the past. Model rocketry is high on the Effect and Intensity laws of learning, but also high on cost and risk. KSP takes out the cost and risk giving more kids that initial experience, and likely getting more kids self-motivated to learn more.

      But, you can't achieve that by just throwing tablets and laptops at students. I mean, you can't fix a car by throwing a box wrench at it. You have to actually have an idea of what you want to achieve and know how to use the tool.

    35. Re:What's the problem? by mcgrew · · Score: 0

      They were taught well. He was incredibly bad for anyone but the rich, specifically for his idiotic (probably more like disingenuous) "trickle down theory" and passing legislation that slashed the capital gains tax. It loosed an orgy of hostile corporate takeovers that cost me 1/4th of my income when Disney was fighting the Romneyesque pirates, trying to keep from being bought up, sliced apart, the pieces sold and the employees all fired.

      Nixon was worse with his wage-price freeze (at least he signed environmental legislation, the US was just FILTHY before 1970).

      Bush II, OTOH, was bad for each and every person on the planet. I never thought I'd ever see a worse president than that useless Carter, but Shrub proved me wrong.

      The truth is, the only two Presidents in my lifetime who were actually good for the working man were Eisenhower (interstate highway system) and Clinton, who ended generational welfare, balanced the budget that Reagan and Bush had left in deep deficit, and took us out of their recession into the biggest boom I'd seen.

      And I voted for Reagan the first time he ran, against his re-election. Exactly the opposite with Clinton, who I judged a sleaze (it turned out I was right about sleazy but wrong about what kind of sleaze) and voted against him, then for his reelection when I saw he was doing a good job.

      About 2000 I woke up and realized I'd been voting for men who wanted me in prison and started voting third party (only one of the three viable alternatives want me in prison).

      Some of your friends and relatives smoke pot, why do you vote for their incarceration? Speaking of the working man, almost all construction workers I know smoke pot when they get off work, so either mainstream party is bad for them (they've all been hurting since Bush crashed the economy late in his second term.

      BTW, mods, he's not trolling, he's just uninformed.

    36. Re:What's the problem? by stdarg · · Score: 1

      You can't tell the difference between objective fact (world is round) and subjective evaluation based on the teacher's prejudices?

      Sad.

    37. Re:What's the problem? by RealGene · · Score: 1

      No, it didn't because in the novel, the government was the corporation, and spent enormous effort monitoring and driving consumption. Remember Centrifugal Bumble-Puppy?

      --
      Mission: To provide products that consume time and energy as entertainingly as permitted by the laws of thermodynamics.
    38. Re:What's the problem? by stdarg · · Score: 2

      They were taught well. He was incredibly bad for anyone but the rich

      Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Median_US_household_income.png

      How is that BAD for the non-rich in 1981-1989??

      specifically for his idiotic (probably more like disingenuous) "trickle down theory"

      Trickle-down economics is accurate. What problem do you have with it? Consult the graph I linked to above if you think Reagan didn't make everybody richer.

      and passing legislation that slashed the capital gains tax.

      Yeah, ooh, the evil tax cutter, hurting the middle class.

      Did you know that before 1997 the capital gains on selling your house was much more limited and only applied if you used the proceeds to buy a *more expensive* house?

      So cutting capital gains was a direct way of helping retirees who were selling their house and downsizing.

    39. Re:What's the problem? by stdarg · · Score: 1

      With this system, Mrs. G. could have labelled me red (40%) in some "character" category and that data would stay with me into seventh grade. So the seventh grade teacher could say "oh, little Sir Garlon is an insubordinate slacker, I'd better not waste my limited time on him -- I'll concentrate on the yellow students because I need to end the year with 50% green to get tenure."

      I understand your concern but this specific example isn't very good. If the teacher just picks a number subjectively like you say Mrs. G did, then the 7th grade teacher would set everybody to green to get tenure.

      It would be huge progress if teachers had goal posts to which they were held accountable in some way (tenure, pay, whatever), and I think that would outweigh the abuses you're talking about. Teachers can already screw your grades if they don't like you, especially in less objective classes where you write papers instead of answering math questions.

    40. Re:What's the problem? by femtobyte · · Score: 0

      You can't tell that some historical facts/evaluations are as close as you'll get to objective in history? This might be a philosophically somewhat lower standard of rigor than "the world is round." Nonetheless, "Reagan was bad for the common man" (domestically and internationally) is an objective historical fact supported by abundant evidence, like "Hitler was bad for the Jews."

    41. Re:What's the problem? by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Nonetheless, "Reagan was bad for the common man" (domestically and internationally) is an objective historical fact supported by abundant evidence, like "Hitler was bad for the Jews."

      Except that it's not at all like that.

      What are these objective historical facts?

      I know plenty of objective historical facts about why Hitler was bad for the Jews.

      I know a handful of objective historical facts about why Reagan was GOOD for the "common man" (like rising median incomes during his term, increased fiscal stability for Social Security, etc), and none about why he was bad. So enlighten me, if you have actual facts to back that up that are as uncontroversial as Hitler vs. the Jews.

    42. Re:What's the problem? by manicb · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously using IQ scores as a meaningful reference point while arguing that people may be under-appreciated if you judge them with arbitrary quantitative measures?

      (Not that I doubt your story -- depressingly plausible.)

    43. Re:What's the problem? by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      To be clear, in evaluating Reagan's presidency, I am generally referring to his administration as a whole (including various acts that the Hollywood Fake Cowboy might claim were not done with his knowledge). Also, don't forget that policy decisions can have impacts decades later.

      A few items that come to mind are:

      Iran Contra scandal, and general support for the violent overthrow of South American democracies by US-supported right wing dictators;

      Promulgation of the fabricated racist mythology of the "welfare queen" in political discourse as a way to shift blame to the poor for economic harms to the middle class in favor of the rich; frequently giving speeches portraying fictitiously embellished instances of rare welfare fraud as the norm.

      Deep cuts to federal programs in early childhood education and mental care for veterans, with demographic impacts persisting decades later.

      Increasing economic inequality, disenfranchising the middle class as an economic force

      Financial deregulation leading to the Savings and Loan crisis

      Department of Housing and Urban Development grant rigging to fraudulently award lucrative contracts to campaign contributors and lobbyists.

    44. Re:What's the problem? by sjames · · Score: 1

      When that evaluation is forever and shared with pretty much everyone but the evaluatee.

    45. Re:What's the problem? by someSnarkyBastard · · Score: 1

      Wrong novel, you're thinking of Brave New World. Also, you forgot the orgy-porgy.

    46. Re:What's the problem? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Median_US_household_income.png [wikipedia.org]

      There are no referents in that graphic. Link the wikipedia article itself.

      Yeah, ooh, the evil tax cutter, hurting the middle class.

      I explained that in my comment. Are you trolling? I'm a bit naive about that sometimes. Again, your graphic is meaningless, it has no context or referents.

      Did you know that before 1997 the capital gains on selling your house was much more limited and only applied if you used the proceeds to buy a *more expensive* house?

      As it should be. Gains taxes were already lower than income taxes, if I make a profit by downsizing my house I should pay taxes on that profit, especially if I'm upsizing.

    47. Re:What's the problem? by RealGene · · Score: 1

      Erp. You are correct. BNW was mentioned earlier in the thread, I lost track of the dystopia under discussion...

      --
      Mission: To provide products that consume time and energy as entertainingly as permitted by the laws of thermodynamics.
    48. Re:What's the problem? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      become a threat...to the landed gentry.

      Finish your jokes off properly, please.

      my apologies, I thought it would be to obvious.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    49. Re:What's the problem? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      become a threat...to the landed gentry.

      Finish your jokes off properly, please.

      my apologies, I thought it would be to obvious.

      rrrrrrrrr, too obvious.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    50. Re:What's the problem? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Students might be more inclined to participate when those around them do, but what they are participating in is not always what you want. You hope to encourage the slacker to participate more in the learning process, but at the same time, you are just as likely to be encouraging the good student to participate in getting high under the bleachers. There is a very large portion of the population that thinks this is just fine because their goal isn't to improve education, but to normalize it to a base value. This is not something I want my children involved in. Amongst my son's peers, graduating and going to college at 15 or 16 is normal. It would be a travesty to take these kids and put them into an environment where they are shooting for high school graduation at 19.

    51. Re: What's the problem? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      One of the problems is that technology is rarely used. The reason is one of my big gripes with the teaching profession, but irrelevant of that, teachers just don't generally use technology even when it is made available to them. Some areas where tech has improved education:

      * Over head projectors are technology, and they have been very useful. Why? Teachers used them. I don't know how much the use them today, but when I was in school, they were used heavily.
      * Typing classes. Using computers really did revolutionize teaching typing. (Do they still teach typing in school?)
      * Checking for plagiarism. I was sitting next to a teacher at one of my son's events, and she was using an iPhone to search for strings of text from papers she was grading.

      Well, that pretty well sums it up....

    52. Re:What's the problem? by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Iran Contra scandal [wikipedia.org], and general support for the violent overthrow of South American democracies by US-supported right wing dictators;

      The Arab Spring has shown us that US-supported right wing dictators are often the better alternative. I don't know nearly as much about South America during that time as I know about the Middle East, so who knows. Perhaps you have a point here.

      Promulgation of the fabricated racist mythology of the "welfare queen" in political discourse

      The common man is not a welfare queen and does not support welfare queens. I don't think Reagan's frank discussion of welfare abuse was bad for the common man.

      And it led to one of Bill Clinton's signature achievements -- welfare reform -- for which he is widely praised today by the left and the right. (Though to be honest my gut tells me the left does not like it and merely uses it as evidence that Democrats can be fiscally conservative at times, and they get more out of pretending to like it than attacking their own guy over something that is already done with.)

      Deep cuts to federal programs in early childhood education and mental care for veterans, with demographic impacts persisting decades later.

      Is it great? No. Did it have much impact on the common man? Not in my opinion. Sounds like it affected the poor, and a subset of them at that. Any cuts to federal programs have the silver lining of reducing federal debt as well, which directly helps the common man.

      Increasing economic inequality, disenfranchising the middle class as an economic force

      Actually there was strong growth in median household income adjusted for inflation during Reagan's tenure. The middle class improved in economic terms.

      Financial deregulation leading to the Savings and Loan crisis [wikipedia.org]

      The first listed cause on that page was Reagan's tax reform bill. Reading a bit more about that reveals it did play a pretty large role, probably larger than the deregulation you're talking about: "Reagan's "elimination of loopholes" in the tax code included the elimination of the "passive loss" provisions that subsidized rental housing. Because this was removed retroactively, it bankrupted many real estate developments which used this tax break as a premise, which in turn bankrupted 747 Savings and Loans, many of whom were operating more or less as banks, thus requiring the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation to cover their debts and losses with tax payer money."

      Do you really consider that to be bad though? Closing tax loop holes that investors were taking advantage of? I'd say the primary cause of the S&L crisis was the existence of those tax loopholes that were incentivizing investors to buy flawed investments and rent them out cheaply and then profiting from the tax loss. The tax-loss "value" of bad investments outweighed the investment itself. That doesn't make sense.

      I suppose if Reagan hadn't done it retroactively, it would have been better (more stable), but that's a pretty fine distinction! Certainly I think Reagan's intentions were admirable. And it sounds like Reagan held these investors more accountable for their bad decisions than either Bush or Obama in OUR financial crisis. Props to him for that in my opinion.

      Department of Housing and Urban Development grant rigging to fraudulently award lucrative contracts to campaign contributors and lobbyists

      You're really stretching. We're talking peanuts now.

      Based on what you've said, while Reagan was not perfect (and I never thought he was) I don't think you've shown anything that had a major negative impact on the common man. While you listed some negatives (and some that, in my opinion, were either wrong or positive), you haven't even started to address t

    53. Re:What's the problem? by stdarg · · Score: 1

      There are no referents in that graphic. Link the wikipedia article itself.

      I'm not interested in the article, I only wanted to show the graph so I did an image search and found it. I don't know what article it's from but I know it's accurate because I've seen it before. If you don't believe me and need extra context, here is another document which contains virtually the same graph: http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa261.pdf (page 6)

      I explained that in my comment. Are you trolling? I'm a bit naive about that sometimes.

      I don't understand why you think I was trolling. Maybe I'm naive about that as well.

      Again, your graphic is meaningless, it has no context or referents.

      I'm not sure why you're referring to the graphic again, I explained in text why cutting the capital gains tax, especially in light of tax law before 1997, was positive for the middle class.

      As it should be. Gains taxes were already lower than income taxes, if I make a profit by downsizing my house I should pay taxes on that profit, especially if I'm upsizing.

      If you're downsizing your house, you can't also be upsizing, so I'm not sure what you were trying to say. Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant.

      Before 1997, if you sold your house and bought a smaller house, you had to pay capital gains tax on the sale. If you sold your house and bought a bigger house, you did not have to pay capital gains tax.

      For middle class retirees, it's pretty common to sell your house and move into a smaller house (downsize). So cutting the capital gains tax helped them.

      My point was that capital gains doesn't just affect the rich. The middle class has plenty of capital as well, especially as they near retirement. Did cutting capital gains help the poor? No. The poor aren't everything though.

    54. Re:What's the problem? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I don't know what article it's from but I know it's accurate because I've seen it before.

      That's some REALLY faulty logic there.

      here is another document which contains virtually the same graph: http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa261.pdf (page 6)

      Again, the Cato institute has no credibility, and the graph has no referents and no way to know what its numbers mean. That's probably deliberate on Cato's part, they're as credible in the social and economic "sciences" as a tobacco company report on the health hazards of smoking or an oil company assessment of global warming.

      If you want to convince anyone but a hard right winger, you need better data.

      I'm not sure why you're referring to the graphic again, I explained in text why cutting the capital gains tax, especially in light of tax law before 1997, was positive for the middle class.

      The graph showed nothing at all. It was meaningless, it had no context. This graph looks nothing like yours.

      I explained in text why cutting the capital gains tax, especially in light of tax law before 1997, was positive for the middle class.

      And I'm telling you I lived through that history and Cato are liars.

      Before 1997, if you sold your house and bought a smaller house, you had to pay capital gains tax on the sale. If you sold your house and bought a bigger house, you did not have to pay capital gains tax.

      I'd charge both the tax, but if you earn a profit by downsizing, why should you NOT pay income on those earnings? Personally, if I had my way the CGT would be done completely away with and that profit taxed as income.

      My point was that capital gains doesn't just affect the rich.

      No, it doesn't. I wish I could pay the capital gains tax on my salary instead of the much higher income tax. There is absolutely no rational reason I've ever heard why that corporate job-killing pirate Romney should pay less than half the rate I'm paying, when I earn a fraction of what he does.

    55. Re:What's the problem? by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Again, the Cato institute has no credibility

      Yes they do.

      and the graph has no referents and no way to know what its numbers mean

      I suggest you look again. The graph has labeled and marked axes and a title. If you still can't tell what the numbers mean, let me explain. Perhaps I have the benefit of more experience with math, graphs, and economic data in general so it was easier for me to understand.

      Every year the government collects statistics on the population, including income by household, by family, by age, by education level, by race, by gender, etc. They compile that data into descriptive statistics that you often hear about in the news ("gender pay gap", etc). They put the data into graphs, with time on one axis and income on another, so that you can quickly see trends.

      One problem with looking at income over time is the tendency for the cost of living to change from year to year. If income goes up one year, but prices go up even more, then we usually want to know that people got "poorer" even though their income went up. To account for that, economists will adjust each year's data based on the level of inflation that year. They establish a base year against which the other years are measured. In my graph the base year was 1994, which is why the vertical axis is labeled "1994 Dollars" -- that means they adjusted each year's income to express the purchasing power as if it were 1994. $1 in 1973 might have bought the same goods that $2 bought in 1994 (as an example), so they treat a $15000 income in 1974 as if it were $30000 in "1994 dollars".

      The graph showed nothing at all. It was meaningless, it had no context. This graph [wikipedia.org] looks nothing like yours.

      They look nothing alike because they are nothing alike. Mine covered 1973 to 1994, yours 1991 to 2010. Mine was inflation adjusted (to 1994) median family income, yours was inflation adjusted (to 2010) personal income by educational attainment. Again, I suggest you look closer at the graphs. There is a wealth of contextual information (if you know what to look for) which goes a long way in explaining the meaning of both graphs and how they should (or should not) be compared to each other.

      I'd charge both the tax, but if you earn a profit by downsizing, why should you NOT pay income on those earnings? Personally, if I had my way the CGT would be done completely away with and that profit taxed as income.

      I'm not here to debate what should be done. We're talking about your assertion that Reagan was bad for everybody but the rich. I've shown you now that Reagan was good for the median income worker, and that his tax reforms helped the middle class, with an emphasis on retirees.

      No, it doesn't. I wish I could pay the capital gains tax on my salary instead of the much higher income tax.

      You can. Just start replacing your income with activities that generate capital gains. It's not a big mystery. For instance put in a ton of "sweat equity" in your house and then sell it for a huge profit. That's capital gains right there. Up to a certain amount you won't even pay the capital gains rate because there's a nice exclusion (tax loop hole).

      There is absolutely no rational reason I've ever heard why that corporate job-killing pirate Romney should pay less than half the rate I'm paying, when I earn a fraction of what he does.

      There are many good reasons that are perfectly rational, but you don't want to hear them.

      Here's one for example. Say you buy your house and live in it for 20 years. In the meantime, due to inflation, the "price" of your house has doubled. Now remember what I said about inflation -- the "value" of your house is the same (say it was worth 100,000 Big Macs back in 1993, and today in 2013 it's still worth 100,000 Big Macs, but the dollar price of Big Macs has gone up).

      So when you sell your hou

  5. the debate rages on... by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 1

    ...so yes..can't we just agree already that networked computers are gathering data points on everyone and everything at an astounding pace, and much of it is freely donated by the people themselves thru SN's and other social portals.

    but is it a net plus or a net negative? it's easy to argue both sides of this Gate's Foundation initiative to track student progress and use the date to tailor individual plans...i mean really isn't this the promise of the Network Society?

    but wait!! collecting all this data and centralizing and making the results just a SQL query away can have dangerous consequences! blah blah i get it ...

    i guess, as Einstein showed over 100 years ago, it REALLY IS all relative (except the speed of light of course)...

    --
    never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    1. Re: the debate rages on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wtf? You idiot dont bring einstein into this

    2. Re:the debate rages on... by ebno-10db · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it's easy to argue both sides of this Gate's Foundation initiative to track student progress

      Then go ahead and argue the pro side, because I seem to lack the imagination (or ability to lie without laughing at the idea tht anyone would believe me). Students have been tracked for many years - they're called school records. Part of them was kept confidential, and there is no reason to share them beyond a student's parents, teachers, and maybe a few school officials. Let's keep it out of the "cloud". Woz was right - the "cloud" is dangerous and downright un-American. People should own their own data.

      isn't this the promise of the Network Society

      What the hell is a "network society", and where do I go to opt out (and opt out on my children's behalf)? Sounds a lot to me like the old society, except with information needlessly given to certain parties with a vested interest.

    3. Re: the debate rages on... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 4, Funny

      THE GATES FOUNDATION AutoRecommend-O-Bot recommends a second-grade grammar and punctuation book for you.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    4. Re:the debate rages on... by mjr167 · · Score: 1

      where do I go to opt out (and opt out on my children's behalf)?

      Homeschooling has been becoming more and more mainstream and easier than ever since we now have the internet.

    5. Re:the debate rages on... by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      What the hell is a "network society", and where do I go to opt out (and opt out on my children's behalf)?

      The "network society" is also known as "the borg". And don't worry about opting out. There is no opting out, you will be assimilated. And once you are assimilated, you will never want to be disconnected from the collective ever again.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    6. Re:the debate rages on... by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      Hey, Picard managed to disconnect (with a little help from his friends).

    7. Re:the debate rages on... by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      I strongly believe that parents should be able to home school their kids if they choose, but I also think that the public schools, for which we pay so much (especially around here), shouldn't push people to home schooling just because they're needlessly playing Orwellian games.

    8. Re:the debate rages on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "school records" is a combination of data that comes from multiple sources. School districts surprisingly a data rich environment. A lot of the data is being generated in the educational environment every day. School districts use variety of the applications. Student information systems, assessment systems, instruction improvement systems, attendance/disciple systems, special ed systems, gradebooks, lunch/payment processing, etc.. All those "systems" are usually developed by different vendors, use different databases/schemas but need to be interoperable. The systems like inBloom help with that. It is a reaction to a pretty much failed SIF efforts.

      Parents can't opt out because it is absurd. Schools needs that data to operate. You can't say, bus company please pick up Johnny for school but we can't tell you where he lives because parents opted out. Or Johny you failed the class because you have to take a test but your parents opted out and we can't send information about you to the assessment vendor for you to take a test online.

      There is also a big industry shift from the applications that were locally installed in schools/districts to the online services. Corporations are outsourcing IT services in droves, there should be no surprise that the school districts who are ill equipped to manage complex IT infrastructure are doing(or should be doing) the same. The main reason for all those backlashes is politics. Local IT jobs and salary raises for the unionized teachers.

    9. Re:the debate rages on... by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 1

      Then go ahead and argue the pro side, because I seem to lack the imagination (or ability to lie without laughing at the idea tht anyone would believe me). Students have been tracked for many years - they're called school records. Part of them was kept confidential, and there is no reason to share them beyond a student's parents, teachers, and maybe a few school officials. Let's keep it out of the "cloud". Woz was right - the "cloud" is dangerous and downright un-American. People should own their own data.

      ok i will...i have three children, two grown and a 11-year old girl. i sure would love to see *exactly* how she is doing in school thru an advanced web portal so we could keep her focused on areas she is "falling behind in". hell, i could even see creating an app that automatically monitors her "scores" thru this Gates/Fox database and then delivers homework assignments specifically tailored to her needs IN REAL TIME...who wouldn't want something like that?

      isn't this the promise of the Network Society

      What the hell is a "network society", and where do I go to opt out (and opt out on my children's behalf)? Sounds a lot to me like the old society, except with information needlessly given to certain parties with a vested interest.

      look around you...we are all submersed in it. REST-ful servers spit out slivers of data packets by the trillions everyday, giving up our once-private information mindlessly to those who know how to get at it. 100's of companies vie to sell this data to interested parties behind our backs, as our neighbors and potential mates run free background checks the moment they meet us and get our full names.

      I mean, really...I have to explain this? here.. of all places? here is the catch (like i really need to say this again)...lots of people in authority *love* this new stuff as they get to peer into our lives with unimaginable ease. does it matter if the data is collected by Gates an FOX as opposed to Google, Facebook, or the government?

      --
      never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
  6. Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by walmass · · Score: 1

    A lot of this data is collected now and goes to the state. Is the sky-is-falling reaction due to the fact that the data will go to InBloom, a private entity? In one scene, a teacher with a tablet crouches next to a second-grader evaluating how many words per minute he can read: 55 words read; 43 correctly. -- This has been done since typewriters were introduced in classes Later, she moves to a student named Tyler and selects an e-book 'for at-risk students' for his further reading. The video follows Tyler home, where his mom logs into a parent portal for an update on his status — attendance, 86%; performance, 72% — and taps a button to send the e-book to play on the family TV. -- Supplemental reading? The only difference is, it is going to a TV And another scene shows a geometry teacher reassigning students' seating assignments based on their 'character strengths', moving a green-coded female student ('actively participates: 98%') next to a red-and-yellow coded boy ('shows enthusiasm: 67%'). -- And kids with vision problems are also moved to the front of the class. What the point?

    1. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      at elast the state is so incompetent that the data is useless to them, Giving it to an advertiser, though, bullshit.

    2. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And another scene shows a geometry teacher reassigning students' seating assignments based on their 'character strengths', moving a green-coded female student ('actively participates: 98%') next to a red-and-yellow coded boy ('shows enthusiasm: 67%').
      -- And kids with vision problems are also moved to the front of the class. What the point?

      Personally, one of the things I hated the most in school was being used like this to "help the teacher manage the unruly ones". Way to go, teacher, rewarding the students who do a good job by (implicitly) giving them a crappy job.

      --
      for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
    3. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4307053&cid=45057369

    4. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Presumably the data collection, for example the kid with vision problems gets that sold to an insurance company as he gets older.
      The kid with discipline issues gets an NSA flag point against him.
      The parents identity is sold off to marketing companies.

      Ultimately there's almost no data protection laws in the USA that are enforced (NSA and its corporate military lobbyists have undermined privacy to sell all those databases to the NSA). So people are concerned that two evil figures, blowfeld and SMIRSH, get together to collect data on kids.

    5. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the point? "Color" will be the new basis for discrimination. This time it will be "yellow" or "red", though not in the historical sense.

      Kids can be - and will be - cruel. Just wait until there's too many kids for a teacher to memorize. They'll all were their "colors" on a badge (at least until the school's uniform policy requires them to buy green, yellow or red uniforms).

      Before you know it there will be colored lines on the floors of the schools (like they have in hospitals) to make sure kids get to the right classrooms.

    6. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      at least the state is so incompetent that the data is useless to them

      Useless doesn't necessarily mean safe.

    7. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And another scene shows a geometry teacher reassigning students' seating assignments based on their 'character strengths', moving a green-coded female student ('actively participates: 98%') next to a red-and-yellow coded boy ('shows enthusiasm: 67%').

      Personally, one of the things I hated the most in school was being used like this to "help the teacher manage the unruly ones". Way to go, teacher, rewarding the students who do a good job by (implicitly) giving them a crappy job.

      Yep, the "green" girl turns red, get knocked up, drops out of school, and ends up in a trailer park with three kids before she can legally drink. Great going, inBloom(tm).

    8. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      The problem is the same thing we see with all large bureaucracies. What if the teacher has a mistaken or prejudiced opinion? In the old world, the student might have a bad day/year but things move on and in a few years no one remembers. In this brave new world, the student is stigmatized forever. Good luck getting crappy teacher inputs removed from this benevolent "greater good" tracking system. We already see teachers overreaching themselves getting kids put on powerful drugs like Ritalin. Imagine all the crap with bad entries to the 'do not fly' list, good luck getting your name off of that. But now you can't get a job, or credit, or a date, because your 3d grade teacher didn't like you.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    9. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by BonThomme · · Score: 1

      you'd think the kids with vision problems would automatically get coupons for LensCrafters...

    10. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by malakai · · Score: 1

      Personally, one of the things I hated the most in school was being used like this to "help the teacher manage the unruly ones". Way to go, teacher, rewarding the students who do a good job by (implicitly) giving them a crappy job.

      Which goes to show that even without this technology it was already happening. Of course good teachers try to use student behavior as a force of good in the classroom. Adding technology which is akin to a Wedding Seating Chart planner ( trust me, you think gauging kid behavior and seating is difficult, try doing a large wedding....), doesn't evoke an Orwellian scene in my mind.

      I could argue that allowing the teachers to base their seating on these recorded metrics, allows them to later determine that it was in fact a bad idea, and alter course. It's more difficult for an outside party to talk with a teacher that just did it based on her gut, and work out the flaw in her logic, then say being able to view the metrics see saw, and work out the flaw in the metrics, or her interpretation of them.

      I see a lot of comments on Slashdot that presume because some value relating to a child's education is tracked and stored in a database, that it will forever be consider inviolable. Humans, teachers especially, are very good at taking data points and extrapolating ( for good or bad ). The immediately think from the point of view of the human condition. Is Bobby a red because of lack of attention and anger outburst? Does the teacher likely know Bobby's dad left his mom earlier in the year?

      Computers will never take over that, and shouldn't. All this fear over software being so impersonal, cold, calculating when in the end it's the humans that take the data and make a decision with it.

      This can apply to NSA, school technology reform, medical databases...etc.

    11. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by mjr167 · · Score: 1

      If your 3rd grade teacher doesn't like you, you still have 9 other grades (and teachers) to convince that you are a worthwhile person. My husband flunked his first semester of college, permanently tanking his GPA, and was still able to land a good job. He had to explain why his GPA was so low in all his interviews, but it was recoverable.

      If you (or your parents) let one person's ill opinions fuck your life, then shame on you. If your 4th grade teacher treats you like crap because your 3rd grade teacher didn't like you, then your parents should be fighting for you. There are always options. They might not be easy such as changing schools, but that's no different from the current system.

      The children who excel will continue to be the ones who somehow acquire a champion (their parents, another teacher, a coach, etc) or learn how to manipulate the system.

    12. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Of course good teachers try to use student behavior as a force of good in the classroom.

      That's an exploitative teacher, not a good one.

    13. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      And the kids with red shirts will always be the ones that end up dead.

      * Don't take that as derogatory to your comment. You just can't expect to make a comment about putting people in read shirts without people thinking that they will get killed. It doesn't matter how insightful your comment is.

    14. Re:Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      It would be cheaper than implementing this system.

  7. The Snake and the Crab by arth1 · · Score: 1

    What's sad thing here is that Gates is probably well-meaning.
    The same can never ever be said of the other side.

    1. Re:The Snake and the Crab by ebno-10db · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's sad thing here is that Gates is probably well-meaning.

      The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    2. Re:The Snake and the Crab by louden+obscure · · Score: 1

      The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

      That would be the "phrase that pays" from a Catholic grade school education fifty years or so ago.

       

      --
      Serenity now, insanity later.
    3. Re:The Snake and the Crab by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      So?

    4. Re:The Snake and the Crab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gates is never well-meaning and if you think so you need to go do some research.

    5. Re:The Snake and the Crab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure he meant well when he shoved his crap operating system on everyone, too.

  8. Objecting to InBloom or the data collection? by walmass · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sorry, formatting lost in my previous post. A lot of this data is collected now and goes to the state. Is the sky-is-falling reaction due to the fact that the data will go to InBloom, a private entity?

    In one scene, a teacher with a tablet crouches next to a second-grader evaluating how many words per minute he can read: 55 words read; 43 correctly.
    -- This has been done since typewriters were introduced in classes

    Later, she moves to a student named Tyler and selects an e-book 'for at-risk students' for his further reading. The video follows Tyler home, where his mom logs into a parent portal for an update on his status — attendance, 86%; performance, 72% — and taps a button to send the e-book to play on the family TV.
    -- Supplemental reading? The only difference is, it is going to a TV

    And another scene shows a geometry teacher reassigning students' seating assignments based on their 'character strengths', moving a green-coded female student ('actively participates: 98%') next to a red-and-yellow coded boy ('shows enthusiasm: 67%').
    -- And kids with vision problems are also moved to the front of the class. What the point?

  9. Data pipelined directly to the NSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...grooming the next gen of surveillance-state consumer husks.

  10. Common Tool Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    At first glance this system I think has the common tool problem.

    It's naively neither good nor evil but depends on how it's used.
    The scenarios illustrated in the synopsis could very well be seen as beneficial, if it's used in good faith and understood as such.

    But I find it often is easier to use tools in non-beneficial ways. Will the teachers use the seating arrangement tool to try to make their problems with students other students problems (and they very well might not be able to handle the problem)?
    Will teachers use the evaluation tools to help out weaker students or just to select them out, shuffling them to the sidelines so they can concentrate on the more successful students?
    Will the company behind the system spring changes in the Terms of Use later on to make use of the data in malicious ways?

    I'm jaded enough to expect only the worst a few years down the line.

  11. XKCD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://xkcd.com/327/

    How often until we see parents doing this?

  12. False benchmarks by pla · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The privacy issues here really don't bother me so much - We already have fairly strong laws regarding who can store/share information about minors, and with whom.

    The bigger issue IMO comes from the described use of easily-measured statistics over more difficult, but meaningful measures of learning. 55WPM with 43 correct (what does that second number even mean, anyway? "No Billy, that says potato, not aardvark" )? Useless, unless we want to train a generation of speed-readers. More importantly, did he fully appreciate the racist subtext inherent in Jane ordering Spot to run?

    Sad. On the one hand, I weep for the future of humanity; On the other, I have absolutely no concerns about job security for as long as I want to stay in the workforce. But hey, I see a great future for the the trophy manufacturing industry!

    1. Re:False benchmarks by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      "We already have fairly strong laws"

      HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

      Like laws have ever stopped corporations or other criminals

    2. Re:False benchmarks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The privacy issues here really don't bother me so much - We already have fairly strong laws regarding who can store/share information about minors, and with whom.

      Yes, because Murdoch has shown how much he respects laws.

    3. Re:False benchmarks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like laws have ever stopped corporations or other criminals

      Were you referring to the US government or just to politicians in general?

    4. Re:False benchmarks by pla · · Score: 1

      Like laws have ever stopped corporations or other criminals

      So... To deal with the fact that corporations and criminals ignore the law, you propose what exactly - More laws for them to ignore? Or that we simply deprive ourselves of good things to keep it out of "their" hands?

    5. Re: False benchmarks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean like mathletics that splashes student names, school names, country rankings etc over the net and media without consent ?

      These privacy invasions and corporate ownerships, as well as the ability to make/destroy reputations of kids/schools/regions/countries is already here.

      As a parent, it horrifies me.

    6. Re:False benchmarks by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      This "technology" isn't needed in schools, and school's are increasingly cash-strapped to make these options attractive to them. Amazing how conveniently that worked out, isn't it?

    7. Re:False benchmarks by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      Your entire post says "I know nothing about K-12 education". You won't be getting speed readers out of this, because speed reading is a different technique from being able to recgognize words. We know why most people have a hard time reading, outside of learning disabilities, and this data is invaluable for those students.

      Take a moment and reflect on how blessed you are to not live, work, or play with any below average people. Or how insulated you have been all your life.

      I can't type 20 years of experience into this box, but you could volunteer time as a teacher's aide in remedial reading classes and get a taste of what you are missing in 15 minutes.

  13. I have a charity and don't have to pay tax by tuppe666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "When you're dying of malaria, I suppose you'll look up and see that balloon, and I'm not sure how it'll help you. When a kid gets diarrhoea, no, there's no website that relieves that,"

    Not seeing this helping people dying of Malaria either.

  14. InBloom doesn't invade students' privacy... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 0

    ... teachers invade students' privacy. This is a tool, nothing more. If you ban it, then you'll have to ban things like computers, because they can be used to invade people's privacy too.

    (Not anticipating a positive reaction to this satire...)

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    1. Re:InBloom doesn't invade students' privacy... by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      teachers invade students' privacy

      Right, because teachers control how this information is used and even whether they have to use this system. The only correct input to this system is the digitus impudicus.

    2. Re:InBloom doesn't invade students' privacy... by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      Oops, didn't even read down to the satire part. Now I'm guilty of what I criticize others for (I did it as an exercise).

  15. Weird.... by MitchDev · · Score: 1

    ...how education has fallen so far when we started adding all this technology and started treating education like Corporate Indoctrination and rating students' "active participation" and "shows enthusiasm" levels as if students were serfs...er, employees, to be controlled and used, rather than educated.

    1. Re: Weird.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That began in the 19th century and followed closely upon the industrial revolution. We were training docile, useful factory workers then; that's also why students are regimented into shifts (classes, periods) terminated by bells, sit in assigned seats, dine in cafeterias, etc. Education was very different before that: students were not segregated by age or ability or into classes, but mixed in small schoolhouses modeled after (very large) families. Teachers were more akin to parents than bosses.

    2. Re:Weird.... by BonThomme · · Score: 1

      don't forget the anti-piracy core curriculum...

    3. Re:Weird.... by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      Good point, that story came and went so fast...

  16. Mod Parent Underrated by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 0

    I suppose expressing a question contrary to the groupthink has always baited a flame, but somehow I think it's still an abuse of the flamebait mod.

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  17. InBloom Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I personally have worked on the security of their systems, they are at least taking that part very seriously. They are spending money, without whining about it, on making sure the whole ball of wax is secure...and it isn't just theater. If we find an issue, or point out a weakness, they either fix it, or find someone who can. Not that this means it will be fool proof, but at least they are taking it serious.

  18. Education data systems rely on teacher input by anegg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My county's school system uses an on-line system to involve parent's in the education process. Student attendance, assignment status, and grades are posted in the system; parents access the system to monitor how their children are doing, and can theoretically use the information to apply virtually real-time corrective action. Everyone's involved, so this is good, right?

    Unfortunately, we have discovered that not all of the teachers are good at getting data in. After several episodes of us correcting our child and then finding out that the data in the system was inaccurate (assignments turned in were not credited, leading to fails and missing assignments) we have very mixed feelings about using the system.

    On the one hand, having access to see that assignments are/aren't being turned in, and seeing grades even if the work doesn't make it back home, is good. On the other hand, when the quality of the data is bad, it becomes virtually useless for the purpose of involving the parent in the education process. We can never be sure that a missing assignment is really missing; often a week or more later the system will be updated to show that the assignment was turned in after all.

    In one extreme example, a report that was delivered in class and turned in at the end of the presentation was given a grade of zero for never being turned in, and it was an end of the year project report worth a significant portion of the grade. When we went to bat for our kid, the teacher eventually admitted that the report had been delivered in class but didn't know where the hardcopy went. It was too late to turn in a copy of the hardcopy, so in the end that grade was just removed from my child's average. Since she had an "A" anyway, it wasn't harmful, but could have been if she had a lower grade and the report would have brought it up.

    My point with all this is that these systems all sound great, but unless an incredible effort is put in the data quality may not be sufficient for the purpose of the system. Its worse to have a system with low quality data that can't be relied upon than it would be to not have the system at all, in my opinion. Depending on how many people are relying on the system and in what ways, it could be extremely problematic. The traditional "end of marking period only" grading system has lots of play where teachers can make adjustments. This is bad if they abuse the power, but is good if they simply correct for lapses. A more realtime scoring system may not have the same flexibility yet may be being used in a more direct feedback manner. Data quality issues will be harder to correct, yet the dependency on the data correctness will be higher.

    1. Re:Education data systems rely on teacher input by loustic · · Score: 1
      Why the system isn't design with default status of an assignment is "teacher didn't report yet" instead of just "failed" ?

      I would be easier to point out teachers not doing their part and prevent parents from freaking out.

    2. Re:Education data systems rely on teacher input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about firing a teacher that doesn't put the data in correctly?

      Oh yeah, public schools can't really fire teachers...

    3. Re:Education data systems rely on teacher input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Presumably because "teacher didn't report yet" makes the teacher look bad, and while most teachers DO care a lot about the kids, they also have their own livelihoods to look after. Too many "didn't reports" might cause them their promotion, or even their job. So they will put in "not turned in" instead. Changing the default is not the panacea it may first appear.

    4. Re:Education data systems rely on teacher input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might very well be designed with that default, but nothing is going to stop the teacher who painstakingly goes through and replaces all the NA grades with 0 before making their entries.

    5. Re:Education data systems rely on teacher input by anegg · · Score: 1

      Bingo - the administration (principal, etc.) is management, the teachers are "workers". Union prevents management from being mean to workers. So the principal tells us he will encourage the teachers to properly record grades in the system, but apparently has little enforcement power for this practice.

    6. Re: Education data systems rely on teacher input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our teachers had an option for a zero-default (that NA-marked assignments due on absences) and an NA-default system. We figured this out eventually because most teachers were smart enough to use the zero-default, but one English teacher (later fired due to mental issued) used the NA default, and one of her dumbest slackers got an A after turning in only one assignment during a particularly lazy marking period. He realized that his whole average grade was based on that one, miraculously good assignment. Thereafter, he continued to do only one assignment per marking period and ended up with an A in the class, while others who actually worked for a grade got lower.

    7. Re:Education data systems rely on teacher input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because treating the caretakers of your children like minimum-wage replaceable drones that you churn through on a regular basis for menial clerical errors is bad idea. It keeps them from establishing roots, repertoire, and skills. Like walmart of McDonalds employees.

      Now, don't get me wrong. There is a spectrum of quality in teachers and the worse ones need to be fired, IF you can replace them with better teachers. But who becomes a teacher in the USA? Those who can't, teach. It's a thankless bullshit job where you have no authority over your charges, their parents are either assholes who will try to get your fired if you don't give their snowflake an 'A', or simply not involved. And management keeps on trying to replace you with teacher-in-a-box solutions while monolithic overlords hand down decrees from on high trying to micromanage your job from a million miles away. You get no respect, little pay, and zero career advancement, and yet you still need a degree and license to go do it.

      Who signs up for that job? Think of an actual answer to that.
      Now think about what the problem is.
      Now think about how to fix it.

    8. Re:Education data systems rely on teacher input by turning+in+circles · · Score: 1

      So, the problem with the education data systems where the teachers have to input data is that teachers make mistakes? This is still better than the system discussed with for example, ipads. The more you put on the ipad, the less there is for the teacher to lose. I still don't want the poor kids to have their lives on the ipad. Hey, my son got a D in 8th grade English some years ago because he wrote journal entries shared only with the teacher all year, and then at the end of the year, he was supposed to present them to the entire school. Nope. He didn't want to share. Nowadays, he would have no choice. Ow.

      --
      Might as well face it I'm addicted to data.
    9. Re:Education data systems rely on teacher input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Presumably because "teacher didn't report yet" makes the teacher look bad, and while most teachers DO care a lot about the kids, they also have their own livelihoods to look after. Too many "didn't reports" might cause them their promotion, or even their job. So they will put in "not turned in" instead. Changing the default is not the panacea it may first appear.

      But it's administrators, not teachers, who usually select these systems and I've known enough school administrators to know that they would value a system that gives them reasons they can use to dismiss or not promote a teacher. So it's a better assumption that the system did default to "not reported yet" and your kids teacher deliberately entered "not turned in" to avoid making themself look too bad.

    10. Re:Education data systems rely on teacher input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... not all of the teachers are good ...

      Hmm. All jobs require paperwork. On the other hand, this is making the teacher spend more time doing administrative chores, rather than teaching. It also requires the real administrator, the principal, to punish teachers who don't complete their homework!

      The behaviour of teachers affect students in other ways: There's obviously the danger of being labelled a 'slacker' or other malcontent and ignored because one doesn't fit into the schooling process. Teachers have always talked about problem students but now there's a permanent record of a teacher's opinion. Next, are teachers who have the minimum level of interaction with their students. These teachers will not want to spend their time delivering remedial action to their students.

      ... to involve parent's in the education process ...

      Many parents don't want to be involved in the education process. Little Johnny is passing assessments and that allows mum and dad to sit on their arses.

    11. Re:Education data systems rely on teacher input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like the system is functioning as intended: children are being taught that they are cogs in a machine, which is unfair and arbitrary, and they should just shut up and learn to accept it. Being the outlier parent who complains about it will probably earn your child retaliation at some point, as well.

  19. Yeah, but ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    inBloom execs maintain their service has been unfairly maligned, saying it is entirely up to school districts or states to decide which details about students to store in the system and with whom to share them

    And do the parents and students have any say?

    Because quite frankly it's not really up to the school boards to share private information about children with a corporation.

    This definitely sounds like from pretty creepy level of tracking -- and the 'permanent record' we used to joke about as kids might become real. By the time a kid is out of highschool, companies are going to know every detail about them and have that information to use for their own purposes.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Yeah, but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because quite frankly it's not really up to the school boards to share private information about children with a corporation.

      It is now.

      What's that, you want to safeguard your child's privacy? How very 20th century of you. This is the 21st century. Didn't you get the memo? Privacy is dead.

    2. Re:Yeah, but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No Murdoch controlled companies have ever violated anyone's privacy have they?

    3. Re:Yeah, but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      inBloom execs maintain their service has been unfairly maligned, saying it is entirely up to school districts or states to decide which details about students to store in the system and with whom to share them

      And do the parents and students have any say?

      No - and that's a significant part of the problem (I say, speaking as a New York parent whose kid's info is being sent to this database). No one can opt out.

    4. Re:Yeah, but ... by rnturn · · Score: 1

      ``the 'permanent record' we used to joke about as kids might become real. By the time a kid is out of highschool, companies are going to know every detail about them and have that information to use for their own purposes.''

      At least when the old `permanent record' we were told our misdeeds would be recorded in was being kept, it was generally something that was only used while you were still a student and became a closed book once you graduated from high school. This system will almost certainly be stored on an external `cloud' and the student's information will be, effectively, available to any government entity and corporation that pays for a relationship with the cloud provider. (``You saw the mention of that in the 17-pages of fine print when you registered little Johnnie for school, didn't you?'')

      What's going to be needed is a law like HIPAA but for your school-related information. That'll keep the corporations away from your educational records (at least in theory) but I'm worried that there'll be another secret court formed for the purpose of issuing secret legal interpretations of the law to allow secret access to your high school math grades and, since everything's secret, you won't be allowed to do anything about the government rummaging around in your educational records because you won't know they're doing any snooping. (``You may have suspicions but unless you can provide actual proof you have no standing in this court. Case dismissed. Next!'')

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  20. This Has Been A Fun School Year... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 3

    ... For very sarcastic definitions of fun.

    Between the InBloom data collection, Common Core being implemented in such a way that the quality of education is declining fast, the high stakes testing in New York last school year which only 30% of students passed and which was administered by Pearson without any independent oversight whatsoever, and the governor of New York saying that public schools should be closed if they don't raise said test scores, I really fear for my kids' education. Right now, the teachers are being forced to use curriculum that they haven't designed and can't modify for individual students' strengths and weaknesses. Instead, they need to do what the book says when the book says to do it. They need to teach only what's going to be on the Pearson tests or else their kids will do poorly and then their jobs will be at risk. All in the name of getting "more data" on how our schools are performing. I feel like this is a really bad Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle joke where they're destroying the schools by attempting to measure them.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    1. Re:This Has Been A Fun School Year... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This needs to be modded up, if only for the Heisenberg joke.

    2. Re:This Has Been A Fun School Year... by transporter_ii · · Score: 1

      Just remember, it is this way be design. Public education really took off at the same time as industrialization. The goal was not to educate, but to produce factory workers.

      Since we no longer have factories, I guess they no longer felt the need to as much as they were.

      --
      Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
  21. Market forces by Shoten · · Score: 1

    I don't think that there's anything right about this, but it seems to me that InBloom is merely responding to demand. As long as there are a large body of helicopter parents, there will be companies that try to make better helicopters.

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  22. "Are Belong"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Based on the grammar in the headline, the submitter and any editors that approved this should have been tracked. They clearly never passed remedial grammar education.

  23. Creepy by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 2

    It's almost like Gates and Co. have the intent to socially profile people starting at a young age while at the same time convert the entire educational learning process into a format and content delivery system which he can sell at whatever price he wants, along with controlling what kind of media is in the content. It's digital book burning and your kids will only know what Bill's educational system teaches them. Freakin creepy.

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
  24. Unless you are on a "no-fly" and/or "watch" list. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Might have to first smuggle your way out of the US.

    Learn Mexican Spanish, go work in a field somewhere -- and run when everybody else does, but not quite as fast.

    Get the government to export you instead...

  25. "InBloom" is the name? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He’s the one
    Who likes all our pretty songs
    And he likes to sing along
    And he likes to shoot his gun
    But he knows not what it means
    - Nirvana, "In bloom", 1992

  26. true only if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    true only if he isn't the one driving the truck with the rocket fuel...

    In which case, he is also out of a job.

  27. Same story, different tool. by Baron+von+Daren · · Score: 1

    News flash: new powerful tool has great potential for both good and ill!

    I’m not trying to discount the potential misuse of data-intelligence such as this, but data-tracking will inexorably become ubiquitous in our lives. Djinnis don’t go back into bottles. Not only will it become increasingly difficult to opt out of such data-tracking, the public will to opt out is diminishing as younger generations concept of privacy shifts. (I lazily try to opt out where I can, but I have no illusions.)

    Again, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care who has the data or how it’s used; and I know this is the cogent point for many in this thread. My point is simply that one shouldn’t get sidetracked by the tools themselves. Focus on the only realistic solution: that being laws that define how collected data can be used, shared, etc. It’s an imperfect solution, but the problem isn’t going to go way for lack of a perfect solution.

  28. Re:Yet another Gates conspiracy by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    Why do you folks see conspiracy in everything Bill Gates does?

    Oh, please, fanboy. The summary nor the vast majority of comments have fuck-all to do with Gates, other then mentioning that his foundation is bankrolling this intrusion; most people are talking about either the program or the corporation itself. Stop being so paranoid that you see attackers around every corner, sheesh.

    Let's start by stealing private data from kindergarteners!

    Aw, c'mon, man, you're not really that dense are you? It's not about "stealing data," whatever you mean by that - it's about creating a lifetime profile of a person that can be used for a myriad of reasons, from targeted advertising to targeted strikes.

    Never ascribe to conspiracy what can be explained by incompetence.

    Yea... this program is obviously quite well planned out, and by some rather competent people (Gates Foundation and Newscorp). I think what you meant to say is, 'never ascribe to malice what can be explained by ignorance (and possibly idiocy),' which actually describes your post better than any other.

    Mark this one as a troll, if you like, but I'm actually just expressing my non-orthodox opinion - which I don't dare do here using my Slashdot login.

    That's called being weak in your convictions (and, where I hail from, a total chickenshit). Or, maybe you're afraid that certain reactions to your posts may have a negative effect on your social status... which is deliciously ironic, considering the topic at hand.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  29. Character strengths? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "a geometry teacher reassigning students' seating assignments based on their 'character strengths', moving a green-coded female student ('actively participates: 98%') next to a red-and-yellow coded boy ('shows enthusiasm: 67%'). "

    Is it now the female students job to motivate the male? And do you not care that the male's behavior may have a negative impact on the female?

  30. Sell the kids for food by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How nice of them to name it after a Nirvana song.

  31. Bill Gates and Rupert Murdoch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blofeld teams up with Darth Vader and somehow people still manage to expect something other than an abuse.

  32. Kids must learn early, always get a receipt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kids, you're going out into the big world now.

    At school, as with any contact you have with any service industry person, remember:

    Never hand anything over without getting the name, badge number, and a signed receipt.
    No, not on your "tablet" -- use the paper notebook we've provided you, and the indelible ink pen.
    Then photograph that immediately.

    Remember, you're only as good as your database.

    Please sign here to confirm you have heard and understood this parental advice.

  33. EPIC has testified on InBloom in May by 2phar · · Score: 1

    See this testimony submitted to the Colorado Board of Education by EPIC:
    http://epic.org/privacy/student/EPIC-Stmnt-CO-Study-5-13.pdf
    Please donate to EPIC.

  34. Create a system of Scarcity by Gallomimia · · Score: 1

    Then, when you finally toss some crumbs to the monkeys in your cage, they all think it's a reward, and refuse to look any gift horses in the mouth.

    --
    Sadly, a Libertarian cannot force his views on another, and freedom cannot spread as does the cancer known as religion.
  35. At a glance by omfglearntoplay · · Score: 1

    Sounds pretty creepy.

  36. Re:Yet another Gates conspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "That's called being weak in your convictions (and, where I hail from, a total chickenshit). Or, maybe you're afraid that certain reactions to your posts may have a negative effect on your social status... which is deliciously ironic, considering the topic at hand."

    Indeed, Captain. That's the way the system works around here. I've tried expressing my opinion before, and I had to create another login afterwords. When in Rome, groupthink as the Romans groupthink.

    (Oh, and can't you express your otherwise well-reasoned opinion without cussing?)

  37. What happens to students who don't fit the mold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wouldn't have lasted five minutes in this environment. I don't think Bill Gates would have lasted five minutes. So what happens to these students? Will they be excluded from society? Sent to re-education camps?

    Will all creativity be squashed completely from society?

  38. Bill Gates and Rupert Murdoch by Arancaytar · · Score: 1
  39. Re:Yet another Gates conspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See, there's more Slashdot orthodoxy: anyone who doesn't think Bill Gates is solidly Evil must be a fanboy. Isn't there a middle ground? Isn't it possible to recognize that, like all of us, Gates has done both good and evil?

  40. Y'all are starting to sound like Glenn Beck, et al by PseudoCoder · · Score: 2
    --
    "Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder."
  41. Edison Project Redux by RealGene · · Score: 1
    This appears to be the 21st century makeover of Chris Whittle's 1992 Edison Project, an attempt to buy student eyeballs with free satellite dishes, with the promise of classroom content supported by ad revenue.

    Beware technologists bearing gifts for schools out of the goodness of their hearts.

    --
    Mission: To provide products that consume time and energy as entertainingly as permitted by the laws of thermodynamics.
  42. Anecdotes, data, and all that, but... by zooblethorpe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Quantizable and meaningfully quantizable are both beside the points of usefully quantizable, and useful to whom.

    Case in point: one of my wife's middle school students in humanities (basically English + history) was getting quite competitive and was obsessing over her grades in specific, narrow areas, to the point that her overall performance in class was deteriorating -- her scores on individual tests and assignments were good, but her actual comprehension was lacking. After talking with the parents, my wife floated the notion of not providing the child with a grade, i.e. not quantizing her performance, in an effort to get the child to stop obsessing over the number. The student calmed down, stopped obsessing, and her understanding of the material increased. And, in not being so competitive about the number she was assigned, she became friendlier and socialized more.

    Part of the dynamic in this case is something that gets lost by any test-centric approach. Specifically, there's more to school than just the subject matter, particularly at the younger grades. How does one quantize a student's sociability? Friendliness? Cooperativeness? Etc. Many of these different aspects certainly can be quantized, but without any objective measure for doing so, these numbers are meaningless outside of the subjective context of whomever is assigning them. Sure, 1 + 1 = 2. But how does one objectively work out the math for "my pet hamster died and I feel sad and don't know how to talk about it, and don't want to"? Or, "I don't get along well with this teacher because our communication styles are too different, and she reminds me of that horrible Aunt Edith who spits when she talks and always gives me scratchy wool for Christmas, and I'm allergic to wool"?

    Humans are deeply contextual. Math isn't. Trying to apply math to human contexts doesn't always work very well, and often has unintended consequences. One of the biggest issues is when a number score ostensibly represents a particular metric, but a deeper inspection of the scoring algorithm reveals that the metric doesn't actually measure what it's supposedly measuring. Quantization represents a gross kind of summarization, and in extreme cases, the baby does get thrown out with the bathwater (that is, all of the detail that's been summarized away). Sometimes the numbers do effectively lie.

    --
    "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
    "A four-foot prune."
    1. Re:Anecdotes, data, and all that, but... by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      Quantizable and meaningfully quantizable are both beside the points of usefully quantizable, and useful to whom.

      Definitely not true. If something can be meaningfully quantised then that data is most definitely useful in some context.

      I am not saying we can hope to get a full picture with these shallow attempts at metrics but there absolutely is useful data to be gained from them. If you score below your peers in something (no matter how it's measured) there is a reason to look into why. Is the metric flawed? Improve it with new data. Is there a learning disability? Work with it. Is it simple lack of time spent? Spend more time with it.

      Outlier data points are not a reason to completely disregard metrics. That it doesn't work for a couple people does not mean it cannot be useful to millions.

    2. Re:Anecdotes, data, and all that, but... by sjames · · Score: 2

      One (of many) problems is that once we have a metric, we tend to treat the metric itself as above reproach. We aren't very good at realizing that the metric itself is deficient. Instead, we tend to either make the metric self-fulfilling or heap on a bunch more metrics until the collection is sufficiently complex to defy further analysis. Then we declare the analyst wrong and the metrics unassailable.

    3. Re:Anecdotes, data, and all that, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Metrics, all metrics, get gamed. You cannot design a metric that can't be hacked and once it's hacked it's useless. All reliance on metrics does is encourage spending so much time hacking the metrics that the useful skills they're intended to measure get forgotten. A diploma with honours in test taking is of little value in the real world.

    4. Re:Anecdotes, data, and all that, but... by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      Perhaps so but we have already universally agreed that metrics are useful and even needed in education. Should we freeze what we currently use as "the one true metric" or do we try to experiment with new ways and supplant it? I suppose we could just never try to gauge a pupil's apprehension of their lessons but I doubt you would agree that would make a good educational method.

      A bureaucracy will misuse anything it can. I don't think we should let bureaucracies ruin things for us. There is nothing they excel at more than perverting good ideas.

    5. Re:Anecdotes, data, and all that, but... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Whatever we use probably shouldn't be an untested proprietary computation.

      If they would care to share and present papers where the methodology is tested double blind against outcomes, I would be willing to entertain the possability.

  43. Better communication... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    So, the system tracks what a student is doing in school and helps keep parents (at least those willing to be actively engaged) informed and able to better help their child. Exactly what part of that is wrong?

  44. Seriously you want inBloon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    inBloom is Open Source software (APLv2) a school district can install and administer themselves.

    The whole point of the software is to increase the security of this data which is currently sitting in a dozen different proprietary databases. The hope is that the various Student Enrollment Management Systems vendors will be forced by large school districts to use inBloom as the backend for their systems. Then schools will be able to switch vendors without enormous switching costs which in turn will lower the cost of these systems by encouraging competition.

    If inBloom is successful it will also, as a side benefit, lower the cost of entry for small educational software vendors as they will not need to make their code compatible with all the various SEMS, but will instead just need to code to one API which has much higher security. As an aside the inBloom framework supports various security policies and enforces sane minimums, while some existing APIs use knowledge of a teachers e-mail address as authentication to access their students data!