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Computer Modelers Secure Chemistry Nobels

ananyo writes "One day, computers may be able to simulate exactly how enzymes, ion channels, viruses, DNA and other complex biological molecules react with each other inside a cell. And if such a software package is ever written, it will owe its development to three researchers who today won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry: Martin Karplus, of Harvard University and the University of Strasbourg, Michael Levitt, of Stanford University, and Arieh Warshel, of the University of Southern California in Los Angeles. Starting in the 1970s — working with computers far less powerful than today's smartphones — the three theorists made advances in computer modeling that laid the foundations for modern software used to simulate protein folding, design drugs and even artificial enzymes, and understand the workings of complex catalysts. In essence, says Sven Lidin, the chairman of the Nobel committee, they 'took the chemical experiment to cyberspace.'"

18 of 34 comments (clear)

  1. Heisenberg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Say my name.

  2. Re:Yawn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Having one and EARNING one are apparently very different these days.

    If I was Al Gore, I'd be pissed.. Really!

  3. Re:vindication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    You should try Climate Modelling. You can fail there and no one cares. They will even endorse your results regardless of their accuracy!

  4. Just wondering... by TheloniousToady · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Has a Nobel Prize ever been awarded before for an achievement that was specifically software-based?

    1. Re:Just wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      i don't know, but I have met Martin at a few meetings over the years and his code(s) (CHARMM etc) really did change the way things were done. Bear in mind the classical physics hasn't changed in 150 years but the quantum mechanics was a relatively new 50 years old!!!

      And being software, ANYONE can use it....!

    2. Re:Just wondering... by ibmleninpro · · Score: 5, Informative

      Kohn & Pople's prize in 1998 is probably the closest in relation. Pople's work on ab initio methodology is directly related to the GAUSSIAN quantum chemistry suite, and when he become unassociated with GAUSSIAN due to disputes (and was subsequently "banned" from using GAUSSIAN ever again, see this site for criticism regarding this -- note that for some reason Chrome is saying this is a dangerous site though I've been on it many times, so click at your own discretion -- or just google it) he went and started the Q-Chem program suite.

      I don't think Kohn was ever associated with any quantum chemistry program suite like Pople, but he was one of the key players in the development of density functional theory, which is available in pretty much every quantum chemistry suite and used by a vast majority of chemists who use calculations in their work.

    3. Re:Just wondering... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Well not since I hacked their computers to grant the peace prize to Obama.

  5. Re:vindication by plopez · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I did my project in groundwater modeling. Modeling is a black art.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  6. Yeah right by plopez · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "One day, computers may be able to simulate exactly how enzymes, ion channels, viruses, DNA and other complex biological molecules react with each other inside a cell. "

    An exact solution to a system of non-linear equations with no closed form solutions. You can optimize the functions but there is no way, except empirically, to verify them. And then your solution may be very fragile, if boundary values change your solution may no longer work. The are not even solutions but approximations.

    BTW, I did a project in Groundwater Modeling. Chemical Modeling is even more complex.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:Yeah right by MichaelSluydts · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While true, it should be stated that the problems are a bit different. In quantum chemistry we are trying to solve the Schrödinger equation which we know, the problem lies in describing certain terms (many electron interactions) and then the approximations made to make the calculation time still reasonable. The bigger the system, the more compromises must be made, but there is an idea of what information we lose: upper bounds, lower bounds etc.

      If you really had an infinitely powerful computer, in a way using complex theories such as quantum mechanics makes things simpler because you are dealing with the real fundamental interactions, where the true solution must come from, whereas in less heavy simplified models we try to take into account this behavior with simplified models which in the end lose information while still having to describe the same behavior.

    2. Re:Yeah right by plopez · · Score: 1

      Now, how are these parameters tested. BTW please forgive me I am a modelier but not a chemist. But I understand Maths

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    3. Re:Yeah right by plopez · · Score: 1

      Well I am not an engineer

      Yeah non-linear models "solved" that been there.

      I understand the paradigm is different but we are still in a realm where human judgement can have a huge impact on a model. I will not say that I am a better chemical modeler than you you are, but what I will say is that we need to understand our models, the limitations of them, The limitations of the Maths behind them,
      and how difficult it is to understand our problem domains.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  7. Re:Too late Nobel committee by methano · · Score: 4, Informative

    The peace prize is actually awarded by a Norwegian group and the science prizes by Swedes. So you can keep your respect for the science prizes and still cling to your crappy politics. Lucky you.

  8. Re:Too late Nobel committee by SleazyRidr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They threw their credibility away when they gave it to Obama? They still had some left after giving it to Kissinger, or Arafat?

  9. Re:Too late Nobel committee by riverat1 · · Score: 1

    And you threw your credibility away when you conflated the group that awards the science Nobel Prizes (the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences for the physics and chemistry prizes) with the group that awards the Peace Prize (the Norwegian Nobel Committee).

  10. Mod parent troll by OneAhead · · Score: 1

    Are you the same person who posted this? I can assure you you're just as wrong as you were back then. Since you're acting like a broken record, allow be to return the favor:

    Raltegravir (trade name: Isentress) is one example of a molecule that wouldn't probably exist without classical computational chemistry.

    [You are] living 10 years in the past. New examples [of computer-designed drug in clinical trials] are popping up on a yearly basis at medicinal chemistry conferences. I've personally witnessed a lead structure coming out of a modeling study that only needed a little experimental validation and optimization to give rise to a drug candidate that is now in clinical trials.
    Computer modeling has been badly oversold during the 1980s, resulting in a period of disillusionment in the 1990s. Some people (mostly at non-US academic institution, I'm sad to say) apparently never got over it. To those people: wake up, it's 2013! Computational techniques have become better, and computer power has increased a few orders of magnitude. Equally important, computational medicinal chemists have come to understand there's no free lunch: a simple calculation will yield simplistic results. To get truly predictive results, a labor- and computer-intensive project involving an diverse palette of computational techniques is required, and collaboration with experimentalists is a must. Conversely, any experimentalist who doesn't have a modeling expert among his/her collaborators by now deserves the imminent outsourcing of his/her job to India or China.

    To continue replying on your present post: there do exist rigorous ways to benchmark the accuracy of force field parameters against experimental observables; it's just that only a handful of experts routinely do this. And that's exactly the problem with this field - it has a bad name because of all the people doing crap, and patting each other on the back in true circle-jerk fashion (so you're right on that account). Like your friend; to do things right in this field is more difficult than Quantum Chemistry, so unless he is a supergenius, I cannot imagine 20 papers written in 3 years by a junior grad student to be worth a dime. Indeed, I'm reading papers ranging from utterly worthless to deeply flawed on a daily basis. But that doesn't imply that the whole field is flawed; just that a large number of its participants have no clue what they're doing. There's a small elite of experts who do, and they're almost consistently getting good results.

    "Conflict of interest" notice: one of the 3 nobelists in TFA is my mentor's mentor.

    1. Re:Mod parent troll by OneAhead · · Score: 1

      Yes, Raltegravir. Not a neutral source? Fine, here's another one: Zanamivir.

      About MD being easy, I beg to differ. The only thing that's easy about it is to do crap. Computers are garbage in, garbage out. It is possible to do things right, only it's much, much more difficult. In fact, so few people know how to do things right that the crap easily passes peer review. It's not so much that the reviewers let the crap pass on purpose in a "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" fashion, it's that a lot of the reviewers simply don't know any better. To put it differently, there are far too few reviewers who know what they're doing to reliably block crap from getting published. And this is exacerbated by the attitude of those who do crap. Got a bad review? Reviewer had a bad day and is being unreasonable - submit same stuff to different journal. There are enough journals, and the chance to get a knowledgeable reviewer who can recognize the flaws 2 or 3 times in a row gets almost vanishingly small.

      The problem is not so much the computational resources or accuracy of the models. Although these have improved dramatically, even 10 years ago, highly significant results could be gotten out of them, assuming very careful setup, analysis and interpretation. That is what a lot (but not all!) of computational studies are lacking.

      To end on a more positive note, post-publication, the really good stuff does get recognized by the community and often gets highly cited. As you alluded, evaluating scientists in the field by number of citations instead of number of publications and impact factor would go a long way in rectifying this crooked situation.

  11. Re:Too late Nobel committee by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

    So, giving it to people with a history of human rights abuses is better than giving it to someone who at least said he wanted to stop the abuses?