Slashdot Mirror
Hillary Clinton: "We Need To Talk Sensibly About Spying"
dryriver writes "The Guardian reports: 'Hillary Clinton has called for a "sensible adult conversation", to be held in a transparent way, about the boundaries of state surveillance highlighted by the leaking of secret NSA files by the whistleblower Edward Snowden. In a boost to Nick Clegg, the British deputy prime minister, who is planning to start conversations within government about the oversight of Britain's intelligence agencies, the former US secretary of state said it would be wrong to shut down a debate. Clinton, who is seen as a frontrunner for the 2016 US presidential election, said at Chatham House in London: "This is a very important question. On the intelligence issue, we are democracies thank goodness, both the US and the UK. We need to have a sensible adult conversation about what is necessary to be done, and how to do it, in a way that is as transparent as it can be, with as much oversight and citizens' understanding as there can be."'"
Just fucking words. From the mouth of a presidential hopeful. I can't think of anything more meaningless.
If I understand what I believe you are trying to imply then I agree.
James Clapper can lie to Congress about the NSA's activities and there are no repercussions.
How about we start with that? If you feel that you have to lie to Congress then either you need to be fired or the program that you're lying about needs to be shut down (or both).
The level of abuses - both the spying itself, subsequent known abuses of the data, and countless likely unknown abuses - has already done enough damage to the fabric of the ideal of democracy, that an open and straightforward conversation is not enough. When there are very real threats that people will be tortured to preserve government secrecy about this...
It's too late for the straightforward sensible conversation. Heads need to roll. Figuritively or literally. I stopped voting when Obama broke his 1 year GITMO pledge. I thought I would make an exception if Hillary was the only female top spot on one of the two main parties. I think this slashdot troll headline will make me give up on that. It'd be nice to see a non-male president of the U.S. But Hillary Clinton is day by day demonstrably failing to live up to the kind of standard which I would use if I could muster the belief that voting could help this in the same sensible fashion she is after. Things are *messed up*.
This. Rules and oversight are meaningless if they cannot or will not be enforced. Break the rules and/or lie to congress = go directly to jail. Or should be. The problem is that legislators do no take our privacy seriously at all; they just keep telling us we have nothing to hide. This call for new rules and oversight is just a smoke screen.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Whenever a politician says "We need to have a conversation" it means that they want to avoid taking a position on the issue until they know which way the wind is blowing. It is easier to bend when you have no spine.
> And all of you clueless Obama-loving lberal weenies will still vote for her next election,
With alternatives like Palin and Romney one is left with little choice. One does not have to "love" Obama at all in order to realize just how TRULY BAD the alternatives are.
Obama is in office because of that fact.
I will reprhase that: Obama is in office because neocons refuse to stop drinking their own kool-aid and acknowledge that they are a minority in the electorate.
The nation has always been divided by 2 extremist minorities with a large middle that dislikes both of them.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
For the first 36 years of my life I lived in the USSR. It was un-free country, but many of us valued freedom and learned to love it more than the state religion - "Communism" that the government preached. When Bush started his war in Iraq as a retaliation to the 9/11, I noticed that with Patriot Act, "security" in the airports this country started to grow more and more similar to the failed state - Soviet Union. Some features that I believed to be unique trademarks of the totalitarian states sneaked in the everyday life of Americans. There was a government slogan in the USSR - "to catch up with and pass the USA", but now it seems that the USA is trying to catch up with the KGB-ish nature of the USSR. It is sad for me to see that many born-Americans believe that Freedom is given to them by God, by their brave predecessors or just by the Land they are born on. Freedom has to be fought for by every generation all over again, citizens have to prove they deserve it.
I would never vote for Republicans - for me they share much more with Soviets than just the red color, but when Obama (whom I voted for) calls Snowden a "traitor" (instead of a hero), I'm thinking that Putin in his place would do exactly the same. Putin, who's main enemies are Russian citizens.
"Mistakes were made"
meanwhile
Hillary Clinton ordered U.S. diplomats to spy on UN
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333920/WikiLeaks-Hillary-Clinton-ordered-U-S-diplomats-spy-UN-leaders.html
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
With alternatives like Palin and Romney one is left with little choice.
Third parties. If you vote for evil, you are naive and part of the problem. Try to give someone else a chance, if for no other reason than to send a message.
Da derp dee derp da teedly derpee derpee dum. Rated PG-13.
Exactly. And 3d parties don't even have to win to affect the public debate, they just have to make some kind of decent enough showing to get TwoParty candidates worried. But as long as people keep voting for the New GOP (aka Democrats) or the Old GOP (aka Parody of Itself), nothing that these fetid parties agree on will ever change. And sadly, these parties agree on a lot of really crappy shit, like due process free execution & detention, pervasive surveillance, socializing losses and privatizing profits (Wall St.), Executive branch war making authority, that we actually do need to be policeman of the world, exporting jobs in the name of free trade agreements, prison industrial complex, etc. etc.
Any TwoParty voter who opposes these policies, policies which significantly impact major human rights, cannot in good conscience vote for "either" party because he or she then becomes a de facto supporter of those policies.
And finally, the old "but look at the opposition - you can't let that nut win" argument is just pure BS when "both" parties share about 99.99% of their DNA. What real difference is there between 99.5% batshit crazy and 99.6%? Worse than that, we end up with people like Obama, whose mightiest achievement was taking what was a radical expansion of executive power under the GWB administration, and making it the new normal. That's worse than the alternative where at least one party would pretend to care and fight back a little.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Clinton, who is seen as a frontrunner for the 2016 US presidential election, said at Chatham House in London: "This is a very important question. On the intelligence issue, we are democracies thank goodness, both the US and the UK.
Huh, a democracy, eh? Mind showing me the public vote where consent to the spying program was established? Oh there isn't one? You professional liars just love to trot out "we're a democracy" to shift the blame. Fuck you. It's a Republic. A Democratic Republic. Anyone who's held office while this shit has been going on let it happen. We need to fire congress -- They let the NSA lie to them, knowing full well that shit was a lie. The secret courts even ruled the NSA actions as a violation of the constitution. That means the Armed forces should be storming the NSA server rooms and shutting them down because they swore to protect the Constitution. Game over. We can't trust you. If a you found out a spy was a double agent you wouldn't let them go right back to working for you. Get the fuck out of our government. We're Americans. We can and have fought off forces greater than ours who wished to snuff us out. We didn't need an Orwellian spying agency to do it either. Now we're one of the greatest countries around, and you're saying we have to "Talk Sensibly About Spying"?! Yeah! We do! The sensible thing is to route that shit out. The Flu kills more folks in a year than multiple 9/11's. I'm more scared of my bathtub than a damn terrorist. Cars kill hundreds times more folks every year than 9/11. The sensible thing to do would be to stop wasting our money on shit we don't want, if this were "democracy". Fucking moronic liars. What she means is: "We need to engage full damage control, STAT!" Bite me bitch, you're fired.
You seem to be assuming that Obama is also not truly bad. Remember the gun control push at the beginning of this year? Or how about the fact he is just another politician who refuses to stay out of peoples sex lives(yes he has no issues with gays, but he has yet to support polyamory and it is still legal to discriminate against those who like kinky sex). Or how about his attacks on those who embarrass the federal government by blowing the whistle on their lies? Or how about the fact he is in the pocket of Hollywood?
Saying he is better than the ass hat he ran against to win the last to elections and is thusly a okay person is crap reasoning. When the options you are presented with are which day of the week you get beaten on you are not really being presented with a option. The proper choice is to say fuck it and fight back. The beginning of this means voting for none of the above.
The entire left wing/right wing is a bunch of horse shift false dichotomy when used in any manner outside state v. federal balance of power. It contributes nothing of value to a discussion and only serves to pull at memetic strings that serve to prevent rational discussion.
In general if you are using conservative/liberal/left/right one is saying something that involves completely talking out of ones ass as they are relying on memes instead of reasoning.