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British Police Foil Alleged Mall Massacre Copycat Plot
An anonymous reader writes "The Washington Post reports, "British law enforcement agencies averted a plot to orchestrate a large-scale terror attack similar to the assault on Kenya's Westgate mall, an official said Monday. Police were questioning four men in their 20s on suspicion of terrorism after they were detained Sunday in pre-planned, intelligence-led raids. A British security official said the men were planning a shooting spree akin to the Westgate attack in Nairobi, in which at least 67 people died. ... in a series of statements, the force said the men were all British nationals between the ages of 25 and 29, with roots in Turkey, Pakistan, Algeria and Azerbaijan. ... the London police firearms unit took part in the arrests. British police rarely carry weapons and their involvement suggested concern that men might have been armed." — The Sydney Morning Herald has video. Prime Minister Cameron recently expressed concern regarding such a possibility."
Really, it is.
This was a somewhat more exciting series of arrests than usual.
Police shoot at car in suspected terror raids
Armed police shot at the tyres of a car to stop two suspected terrorists during a dramatic series of raids to foil an alleged plot to attack the UK.
Officers fired special Hatton rounds – large shotgun ammunition designed to burst tyres or breach doors – to force the vehicle over in east London on Sunday evening. Witnesses also reported seeing police ram the back of the car before it was finally brought to a halt while a helicopter hovered overhead. In simultaneous arrests, armed officers swooped on a man in the street in west London while a fourth man was arrested at a flat south east of the city. A large number of armed officers were used because it was feared the men had access to weapons and were planning a suspected Islamist terror attack, the Daily Telegraph understands.
The head of MI5 is concerned about the diminishing margin of advantage they have to detect such things in the face of a continuing threat.
Speaking at the Royal United Services Institute in London, Mr Parker pointed out the statistics of the threat from terrorism faced by the UK. The “plain facts”, he said, were that “from 11 September 2001 to the end of March this year, 330 people were convicted of terrorism related- offences in Britain In the first few months of this year, there were four major trials related to terrorist plots. Since 2000, we have seen serious major acts of terrorism in this country typically once or twice a year.”
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
I suspect they would have a lot less problem with terrorists and ne'er-do-wells.
Nope, there'd simply be a lot more people getting shot.
Summation 2
One thing I'm actually rather impressed with. Rather than running around with guns all the time, apparently the BP have a special unit to deal with cases where they're warranted. Certainly it's a different culture than N. America in that regard.
It will not. Terrorism is not a relevant threat to anything. It is a cheap way to scare people though. This stupid argument (scare them so they do not think clearly) has been used time and again. But it is only one thing: Manipulative. It has no connection to reality other than that. For real threats to your life, limb and well-being: Cars, cancer, heart disease, and governments that mess it up. In the US, add guns.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Really for most of my lifetime the terrorist problem in the United Kingdom was expatiated by the U.S.A. harbouring convicted terrorists and refusing to extradite them back to the U.K. while all the time allowing said terrorist groups to raise money. In that respect 9/11 was a huge boon because all of a sudden the U.S.A. realized that it could no longer support such terrorist activities.
Yep, because the "the deadliest non-school shooting rampage in American history" didn't occur in Texas.
Considering a lot of these guys commit suicide after they're done, what makes you think that their victims being armed or not is a particularly big concern?
which is totally what she said
Since you keep making these claims, you must have some evidence. Can you present it? Or is this just a crank theory of yours?
Were the 7/7 London attacks "fake" too? Including the 52 dead bodies?
Are the convictions that the police are getting "fake" too?
London terror bomb plot: the four terrorists
Four men pleaded guilty to plotting a Christmas bomb attack on the London Stock Exchange and causing a 'Mumbai-style' atrocity.
Fertiliser bomb plot: The story
Five men have been convicted of plotting to build a bomb which police say could have killed hundreds of British people. The men were caught after police and MI5 launched a massive surveillance operation.
Since you're Canadian, perhaps you could comment on this plot. Was it "fake" too?
Canada jails Toronto truck bomb plotter Zakaria Amara
One of the key figures in a conspiracy to set off three truck bombs in Canada has been sentenced to life imprisonment. Zakaria Amara, 24, pleaded guilty in October to co-leading the Islamist militant group dubbed the Toronto 18. The group's targets included the city's stock exchange and a military base.
These sorts of attacks are consistent with the announced intention of terrorist groups around the world. I think you need to present some evidence rather than simply make proclamations.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
The Texas concealed carry laws went into effect on January 1, 1996. The Luby's massacre fo 1991 was a big reason they passed.
The presence of SAS men
One man and he was off-duty.
and Israeli commandos in Westgate
Those commandos were airlifted after the siege began. They were not there when things happened.
Either go back on or get your off meds because the tinfoil isn't working.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
This happened in San Antonio... one of the malls had a mass shooting abruptly stopped by a concealed weapons carrier pointing his piece at the shooter making his opening rounds... and stopping the massacre before it started.
I wish having to have everyone armed was not necessary. I wish the US had a federal police force where officer training was on par with Germany's officers or English bobbies. Stuff like knowing the law, unarmed combat, situation de-escalation, and being able to handle a situation with words as opposed to pulling out the stungun or the .40 and opening fire.
It used to be this way. I remember days where a simple clearing of the throat by a police officer would immediately stop a fight. I remember when an arrest was a "you are coming with me" statement, not this down on the ground ritual of cuffing and stuffing.
Would I live in a police state? If the police were beholden to the people and there wasn't this mutual fear (police fear citizens, citizens fear police), then yes. Let people who are trained and know what they are doing (and the ramifications of their actions) enforce things. A society needs laws (and enforcement) to function, but on the other hand, the laws have to be made so they don't breed contempt (like the "war on drugs" crap.)
and they shoot first and ask questions later.
Yeah, that's what happens when you respond to "Can I ask you something?" with "Shoot!" one too many times.
Ezekiel 23:20
Would I live in a police state? If the police were beholden to the people and there wasn't this mutual fear (police fear citizens, citizens fear police), then yes. Let people who are trained and know what they are doing (and the ramifications of their actions) enforce things. A society needs laws (and enforcement) to function, but on the other hand, the laws have to be made so they don't breed contempt (like the "war on drugs" crap.)
That would not be a police state. That would be a state where the police serve the people and the people work with and assist the police. Neither of those are true in the United States.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
This is such a non-story the BBC aren't bothering to report it.
False.
Terror raid: Police continue to quiz London suspects
Terror raid: London suspects questioned
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Quite correct.
Luby's massacre
In response to the massacre,[21] the Texas Legislature in 1995 passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License (the state's required permit to carry concealed weapons), removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses. To qualify for a license, one must be free-and-clear of crimes, attend a minimum 10-hour class taught by a state-certified instructor, pass a 50-question test, show proficiency in a 50-round shooting test, and pass two background tests, one shallow and one deep. The license costs $140 for a four year license; in addition applicants must pay $10 for fingerprinting as well as instructor costs which vary.
And so: Woman with Concealed Carry Permit Stops 6 Robbers in Houston
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Quite.
It's a big mistake to think that the British police are unarmed. They're not.
They just don't bother with piddling little pistols.
If you're going to have a gun, have a BIG GUN.
Other than for plain-clothed detectives working undercover, pistols are pretty much laughed at by the British police. Compare the stopping power of a weeny little Colt or a Glock to that of an MP5 sub-machine gun, G36 assault rifle or (God help you if you see one of these - strongly suggest you change your plans for that day) an SA-80 or AR-15 assault rifle.
Although British police don't routinely carry sidearms, in high crime urban areas they will carry SMGs or assault rifles in a locked gun cabinet in the boot (trunk) of their car. In extremely difficult or vulnerable areas such as airports or tourist hotspots, they will carry MP5s around, mixing in with the crowd. The bobbies carrying MP5s are very nice blokes, feel free to strike up a conversation with them. Just back off the ones carrying SA-80s and AR-15s, there's a good chap.
Our largest island is only 700 miles long. Where on earth are you going to run to, that a radioed-ahead armed response unit can't get to first?
I can fully understand why lots of larger countries have routinely armed police - calling for backup could take hours. But it's extremely difficult to outrun the police radio on an island only 700 miles long with a heavily-armed SMG & assault rifle unit every 25 miles or so, and CCTV at every trunk road junction (interstate intersection).
(The police at Birmingham Airport used to have those truly lovely-looking P90 bullpup rifles for manoeuvrability in corridors & aeroplanes; from my recent visit it looks like they've swapped over to MP5s - a shame as the bullpups just looked like a wonderfully practical bit of design. I once saw West Midlands Police using one of those wacky Steyr Augs - again, lovely design - but seem to have standardised now on SA-80s and AR-15s. There seems to be a lot more standardisation across the various regional firearms units these days. Probably very practical from a co-ordinated response point of view, but a lot less showy from a nerd point of view.)
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
Good call. We have hundreds of millions of guns here in the US and we have the lowest incarceration costs in the world... oh wait.
Well at least we never have armed gunmen attack public forums... crap, that's not quite it either.
USAian approach to fighting terrorism: Let's have a trillion dollar war on some random country. That'll show em. Nobody will mess with us afterwards. Oh, and let's spend a fortune in tax dollars on an elaborate security theatre in all airports so that we turn air travel into an ordeal. Let's also hire goons to intimidate anyone who wants to enter the country as a tourist, especially if their skin is dark or if there's any stamps in their passports that show they've been to muslim countries. And let's spend more than then next half dozen countries combined on super-duper high tech weapons even if our own armed forces are telling us they don't want them.
British approach to fighting terrorism: Keep plugging away behind the scenes. Use the intelligence agencies to infiltrate terror groups and arrest them before they can strike. Keep it discreet, keep it quiet, and don't announce anything publicly until there's been an arrest. Meanwhile, let life go on as normal, keep going to work, keep on flying, keep shopping in busy streets, keep commuting on crowded trains and buses, and on no account do we change our way of life in search of an impossible-to-obtain standard of security because to do so would be to let the terrorists win.
I wonder which one is more effective.
Drill baby drill - on Mars