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Israel Helped the NSA Spy on Former French President According To Documents

Posted by samzenpus on from the with-a-little-help-from-my-friends dept.

rtoz writes "It wasn't the US government breaking into the private communications of former French President Nicolas Sarkozy, according to top secret documents unearthed by Edward Snowden and published in Le Monde – it was the Israelis. A four-page internal précis regarding a visit to Washington by two top French intelligence officials denies the NSA or any US intelligence agency was behind the May 2012 attempted break-in – which sought to implant a monitoring device inside the Elysee Palace's communications system – but instead fingers the Israelis, albeit indirectly. A few days back, Le Monde reported that the NSA Intercepted French Telephone Calls 'On a Massive Scale' ."

18 of 215 comments (clear)

  1. Who Says they Never Paid for those Nukes... by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I mean, they paid on the "One day I will call upon you to do a service for me" variety plan, but here we are.

    It's too bad that system wasn't trained on the charlatans on Wall Street so their crimes could have been accounted for and punished. You know these guys are stupid enough to brag on the phone and via email about their crimes... All the hysterical email leaks from the last crisis prove that out pretty handily. These guys are so arrogant they think themselves "above the law" because they "figured it out."

    --
    Who did what now?
    1. Re:Who Says they Never Paid for those Nukes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One of those rules for criticizing Israel while not seeming like an anti-Semitic cock

      One of the rules for thinking for yourself while not being a lemming are #2: realize that a man's hatred or love of a group of people has nothing to do with the factual truth of what is being said. #1 is to let racism or ethnocentrism be HIS problem and stop anointing yourself the arbiter of all that is righteous.

      Yes that takes a bit of humility and restraint and those are in short supply these days, for nothing is more fashionable than climbing on your high horse and telling other people how they should be and finding ways to justify it. A person who hates is polluting his own life and is causing misery to himself, no micromanagement from you is needed.

    2. Re:Who Says they Never Paid for those Nukes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pardon me but the ONLY rule for criticizing Israel while not seeming like an anti-semite is... not criticizing Israel.

    3. Re:Who Says they Never Paid for those Nukes... by superwiz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Pretty sure everyone is trying to control the banks and the media. You might as well try to argue that Jews are trying to control Physics. Many try. They succeed.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    4. Re:Who Says they Never Paid for those Nukes... by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One of those rules for criticizing Israel while not seeming like an anti-Semitic cock...

      There is only one rule for that; preface every criticism of Israel with the following:

      "Don't get me wrong, I love Jon Stewart, but..."

      For example:

      Don't get me wrong, I love Jon Stewart, bit it seems to me the Israeli government uses Judaism as a weapon against their detractors, since nobody can say anything about Israel's bad behavior without being accused of anti-semitism.

      This times a million: Distract from the actual legitimate criticism of the NSA (that it would have been better used to track down wall street swine who committing multiple felonies and should have been liable for thousands of years of prison time) by accusing the speaker of an invented anti-semitism.

      Congratulations: Goebbels would be proud.

      --
      Who did what now?
    5. Re:Who Says they Never Paid for those Nukes... by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's too bad that system wasn't trained on the charlatans on Wall Street

      Um, hello? The Snowden revelations are almost exclusively about "economic espionage", the headlines are about who's phones were tapped and which boardrooms were bugged. "Wall street" are the people who want this data and the MI complex are delivering it to them on a silver platter. Why the fuck would they want to point a gun at their own head?

      There is no conspiracy, just like minded people playing golf and screwing everyone they can, including each other, this sort of spying has been going on forever and it's not going away. Having said that and given the history of the 20th century, you would have to be a fool to be unconcerned when the NSA appear before congress and either lie or refuse to answer questions, then walk away with their career intact. That is a clear sign the MI complex is telling congress to go fuck itself (in polite political language). Whatever the pro/cons of the argument, the current belligerence of these people is a threat to the rule of law and a wedge that will polarise international relations..

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    6. Re:Who Says they Never Paid for those Nukes... by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One of the rules for thinking for yourself while not being a lemming are #2: realize that a man's hatred or love of a group of people has nothing to do with the factual truth of what is being said. #1 is to let racism or ethnocentrism be HIS problem and stop anointing yourself the arbiter of all that is righteous.

      That's cute and all, except European antisemitism is as endemic and as ingrained in their culture as racism is in America. It's a cultural no-no, but it's often still the guttural reaction of choice. And criticizing Israel is the natural outlet for this reaction. That is not to say that Israel doesn't have problems of its own that are worth criticism, but it certainly doesn't deserve all the shit it gets.

      Nonsense. Criticism of Israel is not evidence of anti-semitism--period. If somebody criticizes Israel by saying "all Jews should drop dead" that's not "criticizing Israel," that's racism. A reasoned set of criticisms not based on the race or religion of Israelis (i.e. you can safely ignore as racism anything that attempts to use the word "Jew" as a pejorative,) is not "anti-semitism."

      I didn't imply any such thing in my OP, you inferred the lot of it.

      --
      Who did what now?
    7. Re:Who Says they Never Paid for those Nukes... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Pardon me but the ONLY rule for criticizing Israel while not getting branded an anti-semite is... not criticizing Israel.

      Fixed that for you. And I'm serious - this isn't about actual antisemitism, it's about suppression of criticism by claiming racism.

    8. Re:Who Says they Never Paid for those Nukes... by cold+fjord · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ... it seems to me the Israeli government uses Judaism as a weapon against their detractors, since nobody can say anything about Israel's bad behavior without being accused of anti-semitism.

      Many people use anti-Zionism against Israel as a cloak for anti-Semitism.

      The European Left and Its Trouble With Jews

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    9. Re:Who Says they Never Paid for those Nukes... by Xest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "That's cute and all, except European antisemitism is as endemic and as ingrained in their culture as racism is in America."

      I've lived in Europe all my life and never seen any evidence of this. The closest thing I've seen is South park and people making Cartman parody anti-semitic comments based on that.

      There are anti-semites here, but I see far more hatred between Europeans simply for being from different parts of Europe than I do any anti-semitism - people from Eastern European nations get far more of a hard time in Western Europe when they emigrate there after each EU expansion for example, the unfair attitude towards Polish people being an obvious one that comes to mind. I'd wager the Jews are a group that suffers much less prejudice than most, especially compared to various gypsy groups, or many of the African immigrant groups such as Somalians, or groups of people from countries new into the EU. Muslims are another obvious example of people who suffer far more prejudice in Europe than Jewish people do.

      What Europe does speak out about much more than the US however is Israeli aggression in the middle east and illegal annexing of territory that is not Israel's, but hopefully you're not confusing that for anti-semitism.

    10. Re:Who Says they Never Paid for those Nukes... by dadelbunts · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. I fucking hate Israel and anyone who supports it. Not because they are Jews, because they are a bunch of terrorists that refuse to take responsibility for their actions. Because they take land that isnt their by force then act surprised when the people that live there fight back. Because they are a constant source of problems for all their neighbors which they attack for no reason.

      Also it amazes me how anti american they are. When i was working defense contracting i must have called over 300 places in Israel. EVERYONE there was rude as hell. Rudest people i have ever encountered. I had an easier time finding carpenters in Iraq, during a war, with me not speaking a word of arabic.

  2. Re:Enough already... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because the brave journalists with integrity who aren't shills to the broader agenda are staggering their releases over a period of time to keep this in the public eye, the story would be buried with another Miley Cyrus or school shooting distraction if they blew their wad all at once. They are doing the right thing, fighting the good fight, and discrediting and bringing light to the corporatist warmongering pigs and the crypto-Zionists pulling their strings.

    -- Ethanol-fueled

  3. Old tune by hebertrich · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We all know the Israeli secret services are total bastards , they killed Arafat spy on everyone etc .. We all know the NSA is again total bastards that stop at nothing. What we need to know is how to defeat them and pull the reins back in and get back in control of those gone rogue agencies that have respect for neither Constitution ,Law nor Country . The secret services play by a different set of rules .. you have the right to do everything , as long as you don't get caught .
    They got caught , yet face none of the consequences. Game over. Total surveillance is now a reality and that's it. As long as noone marches in on the capitals around the world by the millions , why should they change anything ? Noone opposes . Thank you George Orwell ... but your warning ,in the end , changed nothing.

    1. Re:Old tune by ImOuttaHere · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This, to me, is one of the many fascinating things about America. When sh*t like this happens, there is the inevitable question of what kinds of things people can do to change the way things are. Yet, when you talk with people from other countries and you talk about this kind of sh*t, they many times will respond with what they personally are doing to change the way things are.

      Come on, America. You're a smart bunch of people. Save yourselves. You really need to figure it out. Seriously. There are at LOT of things that can be done to rein in your out of control three letter agencies, politicians who want to burn the place to the ground, and the greedy bankers and corporate officers who know you'll continue to buy the sh*t they have for sale. Nothing will change until you actually _do_ something. So get with it and _do_ what _needs_ to be done.

      ... What we need to know is how to defeat them and pull the reins back in and get back in control of those gone rogue agencies that have respect for neither Constitution ,Law nor Country ...

  4. Not a big surprise by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Considering how much spying Israel does on the U.S., and all the secrets they've stolen from us in exchange for unequivocal support at the UN, and then ask to have their spies returned to them because they're "heroes", this shouldn't surprise anyone.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  5. Why all of this surprise? by Austrian+Anarchy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From these "world leaders" to journalists, why all of the 'surprise?' Spying is one of the things that governments do, ALL of them. They ALL spy on their allies and foes alike and it has always been this way. In the US/Israel context, we both spy on each other all day, every day, and assist with information on other countries too. France does the same thing, so does England. Nothing new here.

    --
    Time Bomber the Book coming soon.
  6. Re:Snowden claims he isn't hurting American intere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And actually he isn't. He may be hurting the interests of the powerful in the USA. Not those of the people.

    If, and once this mess is cleared, the rest of the world might hold citizens of the USA in higher esteem. I know I'm looking forward to it.

    So, citizens of the USA: grab this chance. Show that you mean your values, that those values aren't just some marketing terms buried in an old and smelly document.

    Go for it!

  7. Re:Snowden claims he isn't hurting American intere by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I understand his reasons for releasing information about domestic spying, but what good reason does he have for releasing information about spying on the international scene?

    Because he's not just an upstanding, patriotic American, he's an upstanding, patriotic human.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese