Mozilla Location Service: Geolocation Lookups From Cell Towers and WiFi Data

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Mozilla Location Service: Geolocation Lookups From Cell Towers and WiFi Data

Posted by samzenpus on Monday October 28, 2013 @08:06AM from the where-in-the-world dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Mozilla today launched an experimental pilot project called Mozilla Location Service. The organization explains its goal is to provide geolocation lookups based on publicly observable cell tower and WiFi access point information. Mozilla admits that many commercial services already exist in this space, but it wants to provide a public one. The company points out there isn't a single 'large' public service that provides this data, which is becoming increasingly important when building various parts of the mobile ecosystem."

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Great by ArcadeMan · 2013-10-28 08:12 · Score: 3, Interesting

Megacities like Tokyo and New York will have great and precise services. Middle-of-nowhere-town with under 50 000 people will have jack squat.

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1. Re:Great by icebike · 2013-10-28 08:51 · Score: 2
  
  Megacities like Tokyo and New York will have great and precise services. Middle-of-nowhere-town with under 50 000 people will have jack squat.
  Don't be so sure.
  Although WiGLE.net is easily slashdotted, try visiting it next week, and zoom the interactive map (link near top) to some dusty bump in the road, and you will probably not believe the number of wifi access points that are mapped. If someone just drives by while running their app, the location isn't too precise (mapped to the middle or the road), but if they spend a little while in the area the mappings become quite precise.
  
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Hey Mozilla ... by gstoddart · 2013-10-28 08:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

How about you spend some time working on stuff which protects our identity and privacy instead of rolling over and giving the advertisers what they want?
I have no interest in a location service, so it damned well better be something which is easily disabled.

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1. Re:Hey Mozilla ... by mythosaz · 2013-10-28 08:25 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I have no interest in a location service, so it damned well better be something which is easily disabled.
  Noted. ...but you're the product, not the consumer, so good luck with that.
  It's an unpopular opinion, but I went "all in" on Google a while back. I log into my browser, I log into my phone, I let them see my documents, I let them know my location. Some number of "partner" companies know an awful lot about me. ...and in return I get pretty good information from Google in real time (or even in "precog" in Now) that I find helpful. ...and I get that information on a from-Google HTC one running stock Android.
2. Re:Hey Mozilla ... by icebike · 2013-10-28 08:35 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  So you didn't read TFA ? (Of course not).
  It is trying to build a public (or so it says) database of where there is cell towers and or wifi, all geolocated by GPS.
  Skyhook already has their database, mostly of wifi addresses volunteered.
  Google has their database, which they jump started with Street View cars, but now keep up to date with a bazillion android phones running around.
  WiggleWIFI has their wifi only database, collected by volunteers, which is public and massive, but not all that usable, although you can probably zoom into your neighborhood and find Wifi routers by the dozen.
  But this database is supposed to be available publicly, and will know that if you are connected to Cell Tower XYZ, and your phone can see tower RWC, then you must be located in this particular grid square. Nobody but the cell companies have that data.
  This project aims at collecting those tower locations, and wifi locations.
  If you don't want to participate, then don't install the app on your smartphone.
  But be aware the maps exist already, in a number of disjoint databases. This one hopes to make it a joint one, and a public one. They are late to the party, but at least they claim it will be public. Its not clear just how public, but hinted at is the ability for your laptop, or phone, to pin point its location without a clear view of the sky (no GPS) simply by virtue of what router you are talking to. There isn't a hint about feeding advertisers.
  
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3. Re:Hey Mozilla ... by mythosaz · 2013-10-28 09:37 · Score: 2
  
  In exchange for a great end-to-end user experience with the Google suite, I give up a lot of information about myself.
  I do so freely, and I like what I get in return.
  If that makes me a sucker, then so be it.
Just in time for Halloween by Anne_Nonymous · 2013-10-28 08:42 · Score: 3, Funny

"Realizing the text message was coming from inside the house, she mouthed the letters 'OMG'".
good ! by johnjones · 2013-10-28 08:51 · Score: 4, Interesting

Finally a decent system for cell towers... I trust mozilla a lot more than "commercial" interests who skew the results biased around a particular provider and don't update their DB when new equipment is installed !
OSM should be helpful to verify exactly where these towers and what frequency they are as well...
should this not be public knowledge anyway ??
John
Possible uses by Okian+Warrior · 2013-10-28 08:59 · Score: 2

I envision a lot of use for geolocation services.
A site could disallow access from problematic countries. For example, allowing East Asian countries read access but not post (to forums) access might cut down on sock puppet and spam replies.
Of more interest is the NSA angle. Suppose your website disallows visitors from within 50 miles of Washington, DC. Or better yet, shows sanitized links to visitors known to be associated with the government.
Any IT person will know that this is trivial to circumvent, but look at it from their point of view: Nothing they use locally will see the links they need, anyone outside the radius can't send a link into the circle for review, and setting up a tunnel (VPN &c) to a location outside the radius is a pain, and all the effort could be invalidated by the website adding the tunnel exit to the block list.
It wouldn't be hard to keep a global list similar to the SPAM blocklist sites that have lists of IPs used by government. You could download a blacklist that includes the local police station, state police, and FBI building. People could "report" access from government agencies like they currently report spam activity. It would be much easier to hold that demonstration without the police knowing your plans in advance.
Again these are not difficult to circumvent, but it makes it harder for the criminals to get in, and economy of scale is on your side: one blocklist would have to be circumvented by each agency addressed. One action on your part needs actions from multiple parties to compensate.
If there were a simple implementation of this - say, an Apache plugin that periodically grabs the blacklist - it would be a big headache for the overlords.
Re:Downloadable database by chihowa · 2013-10-28 09:00 · Score: 2

Oh, cool. You can run your own server and it's compatible with Google's API.

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Few more details... by gQuigs · 2013-10-28 09:09 · Score: 5, Informative

Actual announcement
https://blog.mozilla.org/services/2013/10/28/introducing-the-mozilla-location-service/
Blog with the most details so far:
http://soledadpenades.com/2013/10/14/moz-stumbler-and-mozilla-location-services/
Re:Ecosystem by geekoid · 2013-10-28 10:54 · Score: 2

One Thing Computers Will Never Be Able To Do: Descend From Apes.
interestingly, it's one thing man didn't do either. we do share a common ancestor.
Of course, if we are talking about biological computers, then all bets are off.

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